Amanda: 0:11

We're three best friends and we love Lost. And we love talking. But even more, so we love talking about Lost. So join us for some laughs and good conversation, and let's get lost together Welcome back to this week's episode of Let's get lost with your host, Amanda Theresa and Kip, just three best friends sit in a room. They like Lost,

Kip: 0:40

They like Lost.

Theresa: 0:41

Yes they do.

Amanda: 0:43

If you haven't, please check us out on our Instagram and you will know what that was a reference to, but we're gonna get right into it. So this week, we are discussing Episode Three tabula rasa. This episode is written by Damon Lindelof and directed by Jack bender. The synopsis of this episode is that Jack discovers that the injured man has been trying to save as a US Marshal. Don't trust her. She's dangerous. The Marshal mutters repeatedly when Jack asks who she is, the marshal shows him a picture of Kate, the woman Jackson's spending a lot of time with. On another part of the island single father Michael questions his son about a conversation he had with another passenger lock. So that's what we're working with today.

Kip: 1:26

Great. And I really like Jack Bender, as a director. He was always like my favorite last director.

Amanda: 1:31

Okay. Do you know anything else? He's really done.

Kip: 1:33

Yes, I do. Funny you should. Some interesting factoid he went on. Well, he actually directed a lot of stuff before loss as well. He worked with Damon not Damon JJ a lot before on like Felicity and alias, like the other JJ Abrams show that he also did like some of the best game of thrones episodes, too. Oh, yeah. So very cool. I was always super excited when he was the last director. Yeah, he

Amanda: 1:56

does quite a few Lost ones. I

Kip: 1:58

believe he does. Yeah. Oh, and he does a sopranos too. So he's very, very well.

Amanda: 2:02

Good quality television. All right. I think Theresa has some facts for us about this episode.

Theresa: 2:07

Yeah, so this episode had 16.6 4 million viewers and a weighting of 8.4 out of 10. This episode also covers days two to four on the island and soldiers nickname count. We're up to five for this episode. So we've got freckles, Abdul, Al Jazeera, Doc and hero.

Amanda: 2:26

Yeah, someof them are in fact terrible,

Kip: 2:28

awful, awful. nicknames.

Theresa: 2:29

Yeah, I don't like comfortable

Amanda: 2:31

Freckles is kind of cute

Theresa: 2:32

is cute.

Kip: 2:33

And 16.46 4 million viewers was the lowest viewed episode of the season, I think. Yeah, that's what I read. And it's actually the worst rated episode to like in terms of critical response.

Amanda: 2:47

That's so interesting. I wonder why. I couldn't tell you why that might be. All right. Well,

Kip: 2:53

I'm gonna give you guys a few trivia questions. Okay. Okay. We're ready. Okay. What award did Evangeline Lilly when? For her portrayal of Kate Austen.

Amanda: 3:06

Razzie?

Kip: 3:10

Incorrect.

Theresa: 3:11

I feel like like one of those. Like, best climber.

Amanda: 3:16

Oh, you know what? Oh, yeah, I actually think it's probably like a Gemini or something like

Kip: 3:21

that. No. Incorrect. The Screen Actors Guild Award for Best Actress in a Television Shared series.

Amanda: 3:29

Eww

Kip: 3:29

she was also nominated for a Golden Globe.

Theresa: 3:33

What.

Kip: 3:34

She did not win. How many women auditioned to play the character of Kate Austen.

Amanda: 3:41

I have to assume there were no other people in the running. That's why I was given the role.

Theresa: 3:46

Whoa. I'm gonna say like, four

Kip: 3:50

Oh you, Oh boy. 75.

Amanda: 3:53

Anyone notable?

Kip: 3:55

I only found the number I didn't find that I wouldn't be. I would be curious to.

Amanda: 4:00

I love hearing so the OC rewatch podcast shout out to them. They clearly need the plug on our little. They like to talk they off. They had the casting director at one time and they talked about like other people that had been up for like, the roles of those shows. And like, in the time, it doesn't really usually mean anything. Like it'd be like I can't even think off top my head. But I bet you at the time it was a bunch of other people that no one knew. But if we were to look at it now I bet you it's like at least other somewhat famous actresses that like auditioned to be interesting.

Kip: 4:33

And then just an interesting factoid. This isn't trivia. Couldn't find a lot trivia for this episode. But Evangelii Lily didn't initially want to audition for the role saying it reminded her of the Blue Lagoon and thought it would be quote at best a mediocre TV show

Amanda: 4:51

she she's lucky she took it then this I mean at the end of the day, like I shit on her a lot. And I don't I really don't like Evangeline Lilly that much but I really just don't like he'd but eventually Lily got it has a very decent career out of a lot of the people that are on the show. I'd say she probably has the biggest success post last.

Kip: 5:11

I think so because she's in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, as you know. Yeah, yes, absolutely not, of course is like guaranteed fame and fortune at this point,

Amanda: 5:19

even though she may have ruined her chances at staying in that universe with her on the pot or on the pandemic. But

Kip: 5:26

yeah, so this is a great segue to get into our review of this episode of loss, which is a basically Kate Austen centric first time we ever see flashbacks, actually, the first time we ever here previously on last. And so it's a it's sort of like the first episode that gives us all the standard last tropes that we all love.

Amanda: 5:47

So it's interesting, though, because you do get there are flashbacks in a way in the pilots because you get flashbacks to the plane. And so it's interesting because you don't necessarily know if that's just going to be like a one off to show how they got there. So when you see in this episode, that we're getting flashbacks to Kate's time just before getting on the plane, you kind of start to see that, oh, I think this is gonna be a trope that they use. And it's very interesting, because I mean, it probably took up like, what like six minutes total of the whole episode, but tells you so much about her. I personally think it tells you everything you'll ever need to know about. But that's just one one person's opinion.

Kip: 6:28

But the episode opens up with the marshal saying don't trust her. And so I think that opens up perfectly for Amanda. Don't trust her don't like her hater.

Amanda: 6:39

She's sketchy. You know, it's funny, because I'm sure for anyone who hasn't watched. Actually, I'm sure for anyone who's listening who has watched the entirety of the show. There's people out there being like, why does she hate Kate so much. But I do know that most of the people who've watched it probably can at least understand why he hates him much. But people were just watching it the first time are probably like, What is wrong with you? Why do you hate this woman so much? You're okay with Sawyer going around, yelling racist slurs, it's aina. For the record, I'm not okay with that. But to me, this episode does kind of lay the groundwork for what my major issue with Kate is, which is that Kate is going to end up being one of the most selfish characters you'll ever see on the show.

Kip: 7:15

She's selfish. And she seems to have a lot of contradictions in the sense of she finds herself in trouble. And in a lot of situations that are troubling, but usually it's because of decisions that she's made. I never get her there. It's not that, you know, she's this innocent sort of bystander that happens to have bad luck. The choices she makes leads her to all of these really poor poor situations.

Amanda: 7:40

Yeah. And she really doesn't have anyone else to blame. And she couldn't be more upfront with with Jack and with what's going on. And she chooses not to and you know, she's just kind of half waiting for the the marshal to just die so she can avoid it. Like she will only ever what I think is very clear from her from this episode is she will only deal with things if she absolutely has to.

Kip: 8:02

Exactly, yeah. Because she, I mean, we'll jump around here like we always do. But she says things like, Oh, did he say anything about the martial? And you know, she's wondering if the martial told Jack that she was the prisoner. And of course he doesn't bite. So she doesn't give up that information because she thinks he doesn't know yet. Right? So like, she's just very, very selfish, like you say in that sense.

Amanda: 8:25

So we start off though, before we even kind of get to, to her backstory is we kind of start off with the signal group.

Kip: 8:34

Okay, so they're called the in the last fandom. They're called, like the signal group. I think you're right out I wrote it down signal party, the signal party, but I preferred what we came up last week was the fellowship and the receiver know the fellowship of the transceiver. Yeah, so much prefer that it's so much better. Yeah.

Amanda: 8:53

And it's so funny, because there are going to be a lot of those things that kind of come up like there's like little like, group is that kind of emerge, and they do always have nicknames. Yeah, but fellowship of the transceiver was lost on these people. But I think it's important to remember too, that when we start off this episode, they're essentially trying to go back after finding the transceiver and they have to make camp for the night. And I mean, that makes a lot of sense in terms of safety of the characters. What I think really was important thing is it gave us an opportunity See, you had again, a recreation

Kip: 9:27

of another recreation

Theresa: 9:30

with the little stick with the with the flame, and we had the

Kip: 9:33

giant rock Yes, as Australia puts there.

Amanda: 9:37

And then proceeds to tell about four seconds of a story of how they got there and then says, and we know the rest Yeah, and then puts out the fire. So that was hilarious. I'm like, Oh my goodness. I mean, all joking aside about how they sit there and they, you know, spend precious time and resources they have acting out the plane crash to where they become but They do have some kind of conversation, we started talking about it last episode about this idea of like, Do you or do you not tell the rest of the group about what happened?

Kip: 10:10

Well, and that's the thing like they bring up a boon says, What do we tell everybody else

Theresa: 10:14

say insist we don't? Yeah. And I have to agree with him like, and I think that's kind of what we talked about last time where, you know, hope is really all these people have going for them. And the thing is like, once you lose that, then all of the other things like fear and anger, and all of that start to seep in, and you don't want that to be the controlling emotion.

Kip: 10:35

Yeah, I see it like I look at the other way. I mean, just because these people decided to go on this track, they get to hold this information, like they're gatekeepers, like they get to decide who knows. And yes, you don't want to take away people's hope. So there's like an altruistic ideal behind that. But at the same time, everyone's on this island in the same exact same situation. So why did they get to dictate who knows the truth? And who doesn't? Just because they decided to go on this track? They're in the fellowship. Yeah.

Theresa: 11:03

I mean, you got to choose to be in the fellowship, right? Like, everyone had the, you know, similar options, and similar, roughly similar information. You know, and there are some people out there, Shannon, who would prefer to just sit around until, you know, she's faced with how useless she is. And that's when she wants to do something. So she should not have been on that in that fellowship, while she saved the, you know, she was the one who translated true.

Amanda: 11:27

I mean, that is, that was the most helpful thing she knows, I think in the entire series series. But,

Kip: 11:34

yeah, and then, of course, like, they get back and Kate proceeds to, like, tell Jack, and it's like, again, so they're going to keep this information secret. But Jack gets to know and I mean, I get it, he's the main character, so he has to know but in the world of the island on lost, it's like, do they know she's going to tell Jack? Did she discuss her? Did she just say or think I'm just gonna go tell Jack because I got the hots for him kind of thing.

Theresa: 11:55

Knowing her, I'd say because she has the hots for him. Like, it's very clear, she is attached to him. And it's very clear that he's also very attached to her

Amanda: 12:03

well, and it's funny too, because they probably just trusted her because they show an immediate amount of trust in her by handing her the gun. And it's like, not them handing the only person who's actually dangerous. The gun. And I appreciate we don't know, at this point, how dangerous she is. But I'm tracing I remember this earlier, when we we will rewatch this one together. And there's a point later on, again, jumping around where Hurley is clearly like, afraid of her, you know, traces like, well, you know, you don't know that she's like a murderer, or you don't know that she's done something really bad. And it's like, no, you don't know, we don't know what she's done. And you're not going to find out what she has done, I think for seasons, but I think it's clearly I don't think it's ruining anything by saying she's done something very bad for a US Marshal to travel to Australia. And for them to have a reward. Multiple $1,000 reward for her information about her. They do not do that for everyone. Right?

Kip: 13:04

Marshall? Stanley says she's dangerous, right? So they know that she's dangerous. Well, he knows. And Jack knows Jack finds the mugshot, at the exact same time they're giving her the gun

Theresa: 13:16

club because in the previous episode, when there's that bear, or whatever, and she takes me on from Sawyer, she's like, I want to empty it. So I feel like that if I were in that situation, I'd be like, Well, clearly this person is like, they're good, because they don't want a loaded gun and kicking around. And I feel like a part of the thing that like I don't really like about Kate is everything is just like very what she shows and who she is, or like two very different things. So for them, it's like, here's this girl who, you know, disarmed the crazy dangerous man, empty the gun like so she would be the most trustworthy, but really, like, she's the sketchiest of them all. And they have no idea because she'll always be even when she introduces herself to Hurley. She's like, Hi, I'm Kate. And you can tell her she's uncomfortable. Like, would you like just walk away? Well, she's

Amanda: 14:05

clearly flirting with him, right? Like, thing is like at any given time, Kate, like she doesn't mean you being flirty and nice of him to try to like dissuade the fact that she's clearly like lurking outside the marshals tent or whatever. And it's like, that's just who she is. Right? It's like she'll use, like, there's nothing like genuine about her. And like, maybe there is but like you, you will never. And I mean, it's when I say that you'll never know when or if she's being genuine.

Kip: 14:36

No, you won't know she's, I mean, I don't I don't hate Kate. I don't think she's as horrible as a lot of people or the other people around this table. But I mean, I think she's an interesting character, but it's neat to watch her character on the show. I don't know what growth there is.

Amanda: 14:53

And, you know, again, I think that if she was a little bit more upfront, and I don't like don't get me wrong, I don't expect her to be upfront with a bunch of strangers she just meet needs. I don't think it's wrong even like when once Jack knows and they come back, and Jack is clearly waiting for her to divulge this information to him. And she tells him this really like, like really quite intense thing. Like she's just basically said, we're screwed. Someone else has been trapped on this island for 16 years, we weren't able to get a signal because of it. And he's like, Hmm, anything else you'd like to tell

Kip: 15:28

me? Like, you know, I noticed that too. Like, he's just like, clearly doesn't. All he's interested in is like now finding out what Kate did.

Amanda: 15:34

Yeah. And he's clearly annoyed that she won't tell him exactly, but I really don't even blame her for not divulging that. Because it's really like he said, eventually says it's really none of his business. And she doesn't know him that well. But what I don't like is like, like you were kind of alluding to earlier to this like, like, innocent thing with the whole, like, I don't know how to use this gun. And I don't like guns. Like, I don't believe that. Like, you don't have to go around being like I was the person the US Marshal was here to take. But you also don't have to be completely fraudulent with like, who you

Kip: 16:09

are. Yeah, exactly. Well, and even wasn't Jack says to Harley, because Harley eventually finds the mugshot to me, so like, it doesn't matter. It's none of our business. But then later, he's like grilling the marshal tell him what she did. And he clearly wants Kate to tell him. So it's just frustrating

Amanda: 16:26

thing with Jack though, is again, and this whole leadership thing is very dubious for him. Like it's, it really is at his like, so he is you're and you're exactly right with Him even pointing that out. Like, he's basically telling her like, it's none of our business. But like all he he wants it to be his business. So what he means is, it's not your business. Exactly, exactly. And that is frustrating to watch, because you'll also see him make a lot of excuses for her throughout this episode and the rest of the series. And it's it's frustrating to watch because it's very clearly not coming from, like anything you like, he doesn't know her. Well.

Kip: 17:07

No, I think I've heard you say before about how if it was someone else in that mug shot, like say it was Sawyer or something, you really think he would be all like, it doesn't matter. You know, it's not our business. Like, no, I'm pretty sure he'd be pretty pissed off. Exactly. If they haven't Sawyer ending to know.

Amanda: 17:25

Yeah, he'd be out there showing every like, if he found soilers. Based on that, if he even found sides, maybe he would have that picture or locks. We'd have that picture out in front of the group being like, Look what I found, but he's so protective. Already have someone two days in? Yeah, that he doesn't know

Kip: 17:44

exactly. That's the weird thing is he's protective of her.

Amanda: 17:48

And you shouldn't just trust her because like, this isn't like another this isn't the sopranos where like, some gangster is coming looking for her. Like, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying you should blindly trust law enforcement either. But when you don't understand the situation, you don't know anything. You have a US Marshal who's traveled to Australia to pick her up and bring her back who's bleeding to death telling you? She's dangerous, whatever. And you're choosing to just essentially turn a blind eye to that.

Kip: 18:16

Yeah, yeah.

Theresa: 18:17

It is weird. There's something about their relationship. That's like, I mean, you know, when we think about like romance novels, and all that we're, you know, all hoping for the love at first sight, but something about their love at first sight, if that's what you can call it, or lust at first sight, or I don't even know. But like, there is something weird about how he's so flippy floppy with I don't, I don't have a better word for flippy. Floppy, even when it comes to her. Because even when he sees the poster, or the mugshot, the look on his face feels like, Oh, God, oh, God, no, like, that's the vibe that I get from like him seeing it, but then for that to be be anything else. Don't worry about it. It's like, okay, well, like either deal with it or don't like, just pick one. Yeah. And that's the part and I think you kind of talked about that with his leadership, where he's just, it's always so back and forth, and even clearly in his romantic life where he's like, man, but please tell me, but it's fine.

Kip: 19:14

So we kind of see him as a character. Maybe not really knowing what he wants.

Amanda: 19:19

And you know, and we'll see it really at the end. But you know, so just before we get into the more of that, which is I think, far more interesting, we do get the first flashback. Kate being, you know, kicked awake essentially by what seems to be an Australian farmer. And so, you know, when you first see it, you don't really know exactly what's going on, but it's very it becomes, I think, very clear very quickly. This is what this is why she was in Australia. This is going to be somewhat close to when we meet up with her eventually.

Kip: 19:55

Yeah, yeah. So the farmer basically brings her and gives her some food asks About her history and she spouts some I'm what I'm assuming is extremely truthful and honest information about how

Amanda: 20:06

she got there. Well, and it's so funny to me because when I wonder if anyone else like if this was on purpose to like, just kind of show how little she knows about her own fake backstory or if it's just because it's an American show written by American people, but when she says she's from Canada, and she just finished college, like we don't call it College, we either call it university because that's we call them or even people who go to like Red River, which is a local, like community college here. I've never like, I've never heard Shira say, Oh, I'm like, I just finished college. She would say school.

Kip: 20:42

I've never heard someone use college here. No, no, no, like you say it's just school or university.

Amanda: 20:48

So I thought that was kind of cute. I'm like, Do you think that's like, I'm probably like way leaning in reading into it. But I think it'd be kind of funny to think that's just kind of shows you like, as a Canadian is like, I don't trust that but it's like it probably wasn't actually. She's lying. It's there's no college that Americans call it exactly the way we know she's lying, at least to some degree, because she tells him her name is Annie.

Kip: 21:11

Yeah. Yeah. And that she's she walked from Melbourne or some ridiculous thing.

Amanda: 21:15

Yeah. So very interesting. So yeah, we get a little bit of that. And she agrees to stay on and help him out. And then we were back in it. But that's kind of the first little glimpse we have what I would refer to as like the first official flashback of the whole show. It is yeah. And then we're back on the beach with Saeed I would argue more naturally taking a leadership role and telling everyone that they were they failed. So they clearly settled on telling them they failed to pick up a signal, which is true is true. Or they failed to pick up a signal

Kip: 21:48

to send Yeah, send out on Yeah, exactly. And you're right, like his leadership seems to be more natural. And the fact that he's assuring people is letting them keep some hope, but not like outrightly lying and giving them false hope. And then he starts to really sort of just sound like he's knows what he's talking about. And people listen to him a little bit more.

Amanda: 22:09

And he kind of says, like, look, we you know, I'm not saying we're not gonna get out of here. But we also need to be more realistic. So we need to start rationing food and collecting water. And he was going to do this, and who's going to do that? And I'm going to do this. And I just thought that was like, that's what they probably needed two days ago.

Theresa: 22:25

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. But a lot of people were just kind of saying like, I mean, I think a lot of people are on the same thought processes as Shannon is, they're gonna come right away. It's gonna be fine.

Kip: 22:34

They're just waiting for that boat to be on the coast or the helicopter to fly over and see them. Exactly.

Theresa: 22:40

I mean, what with the burning wreckage on a beach, you'd think someone would come and see it. But yeah, I mean, it is nice to see that now. They're starting to get into like survival mode, as opposed to like for Shannon vacation, just waiting, waiting. Yeah, and everybody else just kind of being like, alright, well, let's take a nap and hang out, see when they're coming.

Kip: 23:00

Kind of like later on when we won't give all the details now. But we'll talk about later when Locke wakes up, Michael, it's very bright out. And there's so many people sleeping at this time to people just like, I guess you could just sleep whenever you wanted, if you're not really doing anything, because like, everybody's sleeping and then it made me think all these other extras like all these people that aren't characters, they're just background, you know, extra zone the extra survivors that at some point, they disappear. I honestly don't remember how they go or when they go but there's a lot more people on the beach than then are in the show. I was thinking it would be funny to see. Like, are any of them going on wacky adventures? Like what are their adventures whatever they all do it

Amanda: 23:42

like a spin off do now or

Kip: 23:44

like the stories and these are exactly

Amanda: 23:46

they're just like doing nothing? I mean, I think it wouldn't be it would make sense that there would be some people who wouldn't do watch Yeah, right there's going to be and that's the thing is like their personalities are kind of shaping and and this is a big as much as this is a Kate centric episode. This is a big episode for giving us glimpses into who Jack and Sawyer are in particular. Yeah. Which we see later on. But you know, not too far after this. We see jack on the plane. But I just laugh because you mentioned this little bit in your last week this episodes stream of consciousness when you refer to like, what the part of the plane the fuselage is, and it made me laugh because I'm watching this episode and Kate's like you're gonna go into the fuselage. Does everyone know what that is? I have never referred to any part of the plane as the fuselage.

Theresa: 24:39

I don't know what part it is because it's not the front and it's not the back because it just inside a plane just the main cabin but toward the front.

Kip: 24:47

Are we in fuselage when we're flying or as a fuselage? wreckage? I just seemed like such a weird thing to say like and but then Hurley was like he's in the plane at least Hurley's normal.

Amanda: 24:57

Yeah, yeah. But I just because like yeah, it's mentioned in the first two episodes a lot. And then Kate is like, into the fuselage like, and I was like, Am I just stupid? Do I? Is this a common phrase that we use for? I guess? Yeah, it's supposed to be like the main body of the plane. But I had no idea no one I find that weird. So anyway, Jackson the fuselage. We think when he finds Sawyer also kind of there and they're both doing the same thing. But for different reasons.

Kip: 25:26

I love their interaction. Little interaction. Jack's been rooting through luggage trying to find medicine and hills and whatnot with those little Doctor flashlight in his mouth, like he's being like a detective or something. And then he hears rummaging and shines like and there's Sawyer ear to ear grin just being like so ridiculous.

Theresa: 25:45

Looking for smokes and playboy. Yeah, exactly.

Amanda: 25:49

It's interesting. Like, I love that scene, because I just love anytime Jack and Sawyer, interact, be honest with you. Because I also think that it's so funny because it's clearly set up at this point that Jack is a good guy and Sawyer is, I don't know, at best, an antihero, like at worst, like a protagonist, right? Like, you know, or sorry, antagonist. But I it's still somehow and I'm trying to I'm really trying to limit it to just my like, episode three lens. But even in this episode, I find Sawyer more genuine and more. Like his his honesty, his self awareness of it, like he is just, he's not good by any means. But he's not pretending to be his own aid. Yeah. And he's not wrong in what he says to jock

Kip: 26:42

neither. I mean, essentially, like, you're not looking at the bigger picture. Like, we're not in civilization anymore.

Amanda: 26:48

No, and it's true, I understand that Jack is a doctor. And so Jack's, you know, he's got tunnel vision a little bit like he has someone who's dying in front of him his job up until now and every thing he has been taught is I have to do everything I can to save this person. But Sawyer is right they he's gonna find a bunch of medication and essentially funnel it through someone who's already dying. And Jack isn't thinking long term because I'm sure as much as you know, again, traces stream of consciousness suggested there aren't as many broken pupils there should be. I'm sure there are. And like, I think the idea is that there's probably some we're not seeing. Yeah. On top of that, you have a pregnant lady and a child. Right? You don't know how long you're gonna be here. And yeah, I think swear he's really good point.

Kip: 27:28

Like, at what cost

Amanda: 27:29

to say you did everything you could do? Yeah.

Theresa: 27:32

Like for someone who's gonna die in three to four days? Like, I mean, honestly, you if this if we were in a hospital? I mean, how many times do you hear? Well, we did all we could do. And then you're just waiting. So I mean, in this case, would you use up all of your resources for someone who you're you, you can't do anything else other than, I guess try to make him comfortable, but you can't because I don't know he's in the sand. Like I?

Amanda: 27:54

Well, the other thing to it that bothers me and like is, he's going to fall back on this doctor thing a lot. I don't think him going out of his way to save the martial has anything to do with his personality traits of being a doctor and has everything to do with like, the flaws of who Jack is that we're gonna see throughout the next couple episodes. And one major issue major character, like theme with Jack, is this, like not being good enough, not being able to save certain people and situations. And I think it has more to do with that, then, because doctors also make tough decisions, doctors triage patients, they, you know, so I think that if he was thinking purely as a doctor, I think he would know that it's better to just let him go.

Kip: 28:38

And this is Jack stubbornness coming out of now people are telling him not to, so he's going to do everything he can, he's going to use all this meds because they're telling him you're being stupid. You're on thinking, right? You know, we need to save that. But Jack's like, no, no, don't tell me that. I can going to save him.

Amanda: 28:57

It's interesting that you say that, because like, even now kind of replaying it in my head. I'm thinking, you know, he's so exactly like that, like, I'm saving, like, when he's like, What are you doing? I'm saving his life or whatever, right? And then, like, two scenes later, he's like, Well, he's in pretty bad shape. And like, you know, and it's like, it's happening very quickly. But I think you're right. I think it's just that like, when he's being told, like, you know,

Kip: 29:19

I don't dare say, those.

Theresa: 29:21

I know, I'm also avoiding it.

Amanda: 29:24

But maybe it is just everyone can be told that that's

Theresa: 29:28

possible. It's possible. Also, I think we're forgetting about the guy who's missing a leg who was trapped under the plane bits, and they did a tourniquet to stop the bleeding. Yeah, what happened?

Amanda: 29:39

He could probably get a few antibiotics thrown his way.

Theresa: 29:42

Wouldn't be nice. Maybe the guy with not with the, you know, traveling all the size, and the fever excetera. Like, maybe we check on the guy who's missing the leg and was bleeding out, is he okay?

Kip: 29:54

I really really liked Sawyer's grin. After he said I'm in the wild. Yeah. Oh, It was just like,

Amanda: 30:01

shivers. Well, the other thing, too, is that Sawyer is not helping. He's not helping. But is he really taking away at this point?

Kip: 30:10

So what he stole Playboy's and smokes like, no one's using him.

Amanda: 30:14

I don't know. I think like I said, it's hard not to let like future storylines muddy the waters here, but and by like I said, by no means do I think that it's in any way appropriate the way Sawyer talked to Saeed the way he, you know, takes things etc. But I do think that at least he's being you know, genuine.

Kip: 30:34

What's his plan with those playboys?

Amanda: 30:38

I don't want deep walk in the woods.

Theresa: 30:40

I used to when I was in Australia. I went on this like volunteering thing where I spent like three weeks in the mountains. And we used to have an hour where it was like meditation time and my friend, my friend who unfortunately is no longer with us. He he told me at the end of the trip that his meditation time was not the same as everybody else meditation time. He got to know himself a little bit better.

Amanda: 31:06

I mean, isn't that what meditation is all about? Really? Yeah, he

Theresa: 31:09

really got to know himself a little bit better. And that's it. Sorry,

Amanda: 31:11

stirring. It's just taking long meditative walks. Yeah, exactly.

Theresa: 31:15

Just bearing in the sand. Oh,

Kip: 31:18

let's talk about Michael. For a little bit. No, yes, we have to you

Amanda: 31:22

know, Michael, also known as Teresa's Kate.

Theresa: 31:26

I adjust my you know, and maybe the stems from my own daddy issues that, you know, Michael is just such a garbage father and clearly is like phoning it in, and also just the most uncomfortable human after John Locke that, that I hate him. But no

Kip: 31:43

Michaels part in this episode is that he's going to look for Vincent the dog complaining the whole time. And he's complaining. And he basically says, like, I'll look for him as soon as the rain stops is a way to essentially shut his son up is what he's trying to do. Yep. And karma strikes and the rain stops immediately. So that was good.

Theresa: 32:01

And then he starts grumbling while he's wandering through the woods,

Kip: 32:04

wandering through the haunted damn forest. And yeah, it's like,

Theresa: 32:07

okay, well, your son's upset. And if you actually want to make it up to him, it's daytime at least like you're not walking in the middle of the night like the others did.

Kip: 32:16

And then you hear something in the woods, which is a bit of a foreshadow to next week's episode, but makes him freak out and starts running to a very unfortunate scene that is confusing,

Theresa: 32:28

weird. Just uncomfortable. Like there's there's not a real word for what happens when he runs into a small clearing where someone is shirtless and bathing,

Kip: 32:41

and doesn't stop staring.

Amanda: 32:44

And doesn't leave her

Theresa: 32:47

walks. Do not take a step forward. Why are you walking? She's clearly bathing. If I was in the shower, and you walked in, would you hand me my clothes? Now? She's clearly still doing whatever she's doing. Walk away.

Amanda: 33:01

And he's just like, picks it up as if like she's done something. Yeah. And she needs to cover herself. Yeah,

Theresa: 33:06

I didn't see anything. Well, why are you walking closer?

Kip: 33:09

It's so weird. Very awkward. No, Michael? No, not even awkward is just uncomfortable and wrong. Unnecessary. Bizarre. But do you think that says about Michael. That scene? Yeah. That he's

Theresa: 33:22

uncomfortable. Czar?

Amanda: 33:24

I mean, there is a part of me that feels a little bit sorry for Michael. No, because he's clearly been thrown into this situation where he has his kid who he had no relationship with and had to go pick them up after his mom died and take them back. And now they're stuck on this island. Right. Like, I do think like, he's probably doing the best he can. No. But that scene itself is just I think, I think he has a little crush on her. And I think that it's already kind of come through. And that's kind of his way of like, I think he's just uncomfortable with her because of that.

Theresa: 34:00

Does he have a crush on her because he saw her boobies. Well, Didn't

Amanda: 34:03

he ask her to like watch waltz first? That's Oh,

Theresa: 34:07

okay. So far. They only had her if he had seen Excuse me. Yeah, she stands. Have you seen my son?

Kip: 34:16

Oh, shit. No.

Amanda: 34:22

You see my son?

Theresa: 34:23

Exactly. Exactly. He says that and she you know, after he says excuse me, she'd like stands up and looks at him in them. And he says that. So really, what is the crush based on the movies or the time that she stood up?

Amanda: 34:35

I just think he's an awkward person. And he was uncomfortable in that. If he had just been chased by do we think the monster

Kip: 34:45

No, because all you hear is wrestling. Yeah. Yeah. Just fits in the face. He's literally calling him when he comes.

Amanda: 34:57

Yeah, exactly. Oh shit. So On Thanksgiving, you're calling something you've done.

Kip: 35:05

Michael Michael Michael,

Amanda: 35:06

I mean, don't get me wrong. He is a useless useless man you seen my son?

Theresa: 35:33

So Michael is the worst.

Amanda: 35:36

Many good sounds.

Theresa: 35:39

Got a crush on someone because she stood up and he saw her boobs. Yeah. He ran from the dog he was trying to find what what what is he had going for him? Not a lot. Not a lot thing. Because when I see people in a compromising position, I usually walk the other way. And if I'm too scared, because the dog that I'm looking for is there. I would just cover cover my eyes and move in different direction.

Amanda: 36:03

There's they're clearly setting something up there to be like some sort of relationship or awkward or action

Kip: 36:09

of some sort. Yeah, it was a setup as uncomfortable and awkward as it was.

Theresa: 36:13

Yeah. So we're setting up clearly some kind of love triangle between Sawyer, Jack and Kate Kate. That's it. And now one of the worst characters with Jen and son, son. And I'm trying to remember if I always hated Michael like this, you're

Kip: 36:29

not the only one. Michael voted off first. Read it first. But like

Amanda: 36:34

the thing with Michael and why you're probably like, Dude, I always hate him. Like, I think the issue with Michael is you'll never like him. He never does anything that's redeeming. And later on, which I don't think it's giving anything away to say that more stuff is going to happen. But Michael does something that is very difficult to swallow. Yeah. And he makes things very, very challenging. And it's hard to even like, you know, like I said, we're trying to obviously look at this through the lens of each episode, but, and there's some things that are easier to kind of put to the back of your mind. But some of these major plot points where characters have done things that are like borderline unforgivable, are difficult to forget when rewatching

Theresa: 37:14

I honestly do not remember, I'll tell

Amanda: 37:16

you after surprise for that.

Theresa: 37:20

Just like based on this episode, though, like even, you know, even before when he was like, how about this? When we get out here? I'll get your new dog. It's just it just kind of feels like Michaels always just like following it in.

Kip: 37:30

Yeah, he has not done anything yet. That has been no, that would make you really like him as a character. He hasn't really shown very many positives. So

Theresa: 37:40

I'm like, you can't if you don't have a relationship. And again, maybe this is my own, you know, familial issues, like coming to service. If you don't have a relationship with your child. You don't get to just go around being like, I'm your dad. Do what I say you need to respect me. Oh, you're sad about this? Well, this will fix it like you don't just throw on video.

Kip: 38:02

Clearly doesn't know how. Because he hasn't been a father

Theresa: 38:05

anyway. I mean, and I guess at this point, we don't know why. I don't know too much.

Kip: 38:09

But let's move on from Michael. Yeah, cuz I could go on. And I know

Theresa: 38:14

this, but he's not the case. To me, though. I just don't like him. Go back

Kip: 38:19

to Kate's flashback. And there she's essentially in the middle of the night, trying to find her money and attend Kenton kind of hidden behind some sort of hidden secret wall that somehow she knows about. Yeah, it's very strange, like canning jars, here. And then the farmer walks in, and her essentially like makes her feel a little guilty. She says, Oh, I wrote you a note. I was you know, I have trust issues. And he said, Well, I'll just stay one more night and I'll drive you to the train station first thing in the morning. Okay, so yeah, all seems good. On the road. Yeah. Cuz she had been working there for three months. And then she decided she was just going to slip away. And then I eat him off. And then they're driving on the road and he wants to stop for I think pancakes or muffins. Yeah, he's like moms have muffins. Chanology. Get on the train. Why are you checking? You're checking your mirrors so much.

Amanda: 39:11

But before we get to that, When does she is at around the same time that she the marshal wakes up to choking her? Oh, yeah. Because I found that part to be very, very interesting. Because that part I think we should talk about because I have some thoughts on on how ridiculous that seems

Kip: 39:31

like she's hovering over him checking on him. She's in there and before

Amanda: 39:36

No, so she goes in there and she walks up to Hurley or whatever. And she eventually goes into check on him and she's hovering over him and she has a flashback. She has a flashback. And I think it's a flashback to the can you can Yeah, and then as we see that she's you know, going to leave Ray and then we come back to him opening her eyes or him opening his eyes sorry. And he starts show couldn't have just randomly. And this might be the only time I ever kind of defend Kate in the entire podcast. That seems like an overreaction. I'm very law enforcement appropriate either.

Kip: 40:14

So you've been in and out of a coma. Where'd that strength come from?

Theresa: 40:18

Right? Like, and he got like, have a hole in your body that someone has sewed up with some common thread. And you managed to

Kip: 40:26

essentially and I don't think over I don't think that did him any favors nothing. It made him worse than he already was. Yeah, but that reaction Yeah, it was insane.

Amanda: 40:35

It felt like I get that he's she's put him through the ringer, but clearly, and they clearly know each other when we eventually see their interaction in the flashback. But it seemed like an overreaction to the situation. And it seemed very inappropriate for law enforcement. And then on top of that, Jack comes. And again, only time we're gonna defend Kate, I think she's really done dirty in these scenes because she's being choked to death. Essentially, Jack comes in, rips them apart and then says, What did you do to her?

Theresa: 41:07

I mean, you got to think about it, though. Like this guy's law enforcement says she's dangerous. You find a mug shot of her. I mean,

Kip: 41:14

yeah, he's probably coming in thinking she attacked him.

Theresa: 41:17

He's trying to like, because this guy's injured, like, what's he going to do?

Amanda: 41:20

It's just another example of, of Jack picking and choosing when he decides to trust her. And when he decides not to, because everything else in the whole episode leads you to believe that he's like, Well, it can't be that bad. And oh, she we don't understand. And it's and then he walks in there. And yeah, assumes that she's done something to him. So I just thought that seems so ridiculous. And I like felt bad for her in one of the only instances I will ever feel bad for her and the entire show.

Kip: 41:49

During that truck, they're cruising down Kate's refusing to get food or make stops and she notices Joe re re stroking his mirror a whole awful lot. And all of a sudden, he's got this huge SUV come barreling towards them. And Kate figures it out. And then she becomes a total bitch. Like Ray says something like, I got a hell of a mortgage Janee my name? Danny, just like, turns on a dime.

Theresa: 42:13

So why did that have to happen like that? Like, I don't know. Like, I'm not well versed in what happens when there's, in some way, what a reward for someone for someone's arrest. But like, I was kind of under the impression that you know, they were gonna meet at the train station, the guy was going to be there and it was going to rest her. I think that was what was supposed to happen, the man was going to pull up beside them, and then give her finger guns.

Amanda: 42:37

So I think probably he was just following them to make sure that he actually did it. And I think that maybe it became aware to him somehow that like she was catching on. And then he did turn into kind of a dick. But I also think that we're getting them. Like I think we're supposed to understand that he's not like he is a US Marshal and he's doing his job or whatever. But I don't think he's completely on the up and up either. I think he enjoys it a little too much.

Theresa: 42:59

Also, there's something weird between Kate and the martial because when he wakes up with Jack, not obviously not in the flashback. He goes, Ah, he got to you. She got to you too. I was like, who's you to? Like, or like, are you who she got to first because it's very clear that Jack is into her. Yeah, no,

Kip: 43:17

it's to me it was almost like he's recognized this pattern of Kate. Kind of manipulating, manipulating

Amanda: 43:24

exactly what is even Ray took her in exactly finding her sleeping and pulling down on her like, that's cool. You just what she does, right? Is she she manipulates men in particular into helping her. And then she sets their lives on fire. And what happens with like, and really this scene is really why don't like her because at the end of the day, she's clearly in trouble. We don't know why. But instead of owning it, or facing it or anything, she chooses to run them off the road and potentially killing an innocent man. Yeah. And then you know, oh, and then she, you know, has that moment where she pulls him back. And we're supposed to think, Oh, she's not so bad. Because she's state saving him. Well, he only needs to be saved because she literally made the most selfish choice in that moment. And so eventually, when we go back, we're in back in the present day, and he tells Jack Marshall has jack that he wants to talk to her. And so you know, Jack sets that up. But not before Kate and Sawyer have a little conversation right about you know what the right thing to do is etc, etc.

Kip: 44:32

She sounded so forced and phony and I just I can't imagine keep falling for it. Because he was like, sure wouldn't want to be the one with that gun right now.

Amanda: 44:39

And blah, blah, blah. And so she eventually goes in and talks to him. And you know, he's like, I want to know what the favor was. And I get that little flashback to when just before all hell broke loose on the plane. She's like, I do have one favor. And she's like, oh, I want you to make sure that Ray gets his money and he's kind of like, Oh, you're such a you know, you're One of a Kind or whatever, yeah.

Kip: 45:02

Even he says, you know, you wouldn't got caught if you didn't save him. Like, again, supposed to believe that deep down. She's a good person.

Amanda: 45:09

Yeah, because she wants she saved him and she wants him to get his money and all this stuff. And it's like, I just not enough for me.

Kip: 45:17

And because none of that would have been necessary. Yeah, if not for the choices that Kate made. Yeah, there would be no saving necessary if she hadn't run them off the road. And, and if she truly wanted him to get the money, she would have just accepted it, accepted her fate and turned herself in or accepted that she was being given up. And she

Amanda: 45:35

can't and you see that when he says, you know, like, that she's, you know, she would have gotten away if whatever. And he she's like, well, in case you missed it, you know, I did get away. At what cost Kate? Like, do you wonder you understand that right? You're, you're away because your plane crashed on a deserted island killing dozens of people.

Theresa: 45:54

And he also says, like, so free to me. Yeah, that's true.

Amanda: 45:58

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, it's just, it's her her. Her perspective on all this is so skewed. Yeah. Right. And yes, she thinks once she's in a situation, it's okay. Like, and she says she's sorry, or she helps out a little bit, or she whatever, that it's going to make up for everything and it doesn't. Right. And then Jack comes back. And, you know, kind of says to and Harley kind of says like, oh, you let her in. You know, like, aren't you worried?

Kip: 46:25

doesn't really say some like she's strapped?

Amanda: 46:28

She's like, she's 120 pounds soaking wet. What can she do? And he's like, she's got that gun strapped or whatever. Yeah, I don't remember. Exactly. So, so funny. And then sure enough, we see her kind of walk like it got really artsy there from her just kind of like we're in a horror movie. And she's that back. Look back. It's too late, Jack, like with her eyes, you know? Oh,

Kip: 46:51

another really frustrating thing about Kate in that moment was when the marshal says, so who's gonna do it? Is it going to be you? I guess that makes sense. But she doesn't know she lets Sawyer do

Amanda: 47:01

it. No, because she won't ever do anything. Like that's the worst part about her. Yeah, right. It's like she is she she can't own even that in that moment. Right. Yeah. And so Sawyer can and teuer will and saw your tries,

Theresa: 47:16

oh, that was hard on his face when he is like I did what you couldn't. And then you can hear the like, gasping and the look on his face is just like, No, he

Kip: 47:24

does a great, like the actor does a really good job, or you feel that pain.

Amanda: 47:29

Like it's panic, right? Yeah. And that's how you know, like, and that's the difference I find between like him and Kate and the fact that like, we're setting so I have to be the bad guy and Kate it, you know, Kate, some sort of hero and JAXA hero, like Kate in that moment, just walks away. She doesn't actually care what happened. So I runs back in and there's pure panic on his face. And if you didn't care, he'd be like, Well, I tried and he'd walk away. And he'd never, he'd be like, Well, I did more than any of you fools did some cheeky nickname and then call it a day, but he doesn't he like runs back into Jack, he feels you can see he's feels terrible. And then in the end jacket ends up having to do what Jack really didn't want to do. And that is sad. Because at the end of the day, like, you know, I don't necessarily agree with Jack. But I also don't know that I would be able to do that either. So I understand it. And I just feel bad that his hand was kind of forced into Yeah. And it's just sad, because it also kind of sets up this theme of like, you know, is Jack doing things and for this group of people because he wants to because he has to do and it's sad because, you know, Sawyer wanted to do. They're kind of different in that way, like Sawyer always wants to do something effectual, right. And he doesn't know how. And Jack has the ability, but He clearly doesn't want to. And you really see that later on, too, which is it's almost beautiful how that kind of comes around again, but it's just very interesting. Kind of the dichotomy between the two of them. And, and I think you'll learn a lot more about where they come from. And I think that explains a lot of why I mean, it always Expensify anyone is the way they are, but particularly for the two of them why they they treat that that way. So

Kip: 49:18

yeah, and I mean, the, towards the end, Jack's just sort of sitting in the sand there. And simply looking out on the water. I kind of just thought to myself watching that, like these poor actors, how much sand they have all over them all the time. How awful that would have been.

Theresa: 49:38

Because they're lying in it. They're sitting in it, they're running in it. I hate getting sand in my socks and my shoes and well that's the that's why I don't understand nobody's really complaining about the sand because they all get wet and then they're still in the sand and then they're dry and they're still in the sand. I'd be so itchy. I'd have a rash for sure by now. Well, yeah. I'm just saying that's just I'm just saying, you know, I get that there's do different shows here, bigger problems and hand because, you know, plane crash, but like, you know, they're making like shelters and stuff. And we want

Kip: 50:07

the greedy retelling of last of the real sort of issues I had said. So we have

Amanda: 50:14

some sort of like comedy sketch show or like YouTube videos or something where someone like inserted themselves in the back of scenes and like a comment, whatever.

Kip: 50:21

No, there is gotta be, I want to find it.

Theresa: 50:25

Is it on last and then they're dumping sand? Or like,

Amanda: 50:28

they're just kind of like in the back of me like, hey, like, I seem to have some sort of recollection that anyone knows what I'm talking about, please let us know, we want to see it. Because I need to see this. If it's a thing. The ending is very nice. Like you have the music playing.

Kip: 50:40

Well, Kate joins them. And he says this. I don't know if it's controversial, but it seems to cause a lot of grief for the fans of the show. And probably the creators of the show, is three days ago, we all died. And I think a lot of people took that as like, like literally literally. And it's not it's not literally he's essentially saying where the title of the show of the episode comes from tabula rasa is essentially the idea of like, your your soul and your mind is a blank slate, a fresh slate, a clean slate. And so that's what he's saying is that this is a chance to start over a clean slate, we can become new people were what we did before doesn't matter. The past doesn't matter. You know, what you did doesn't matter. But then it kind of does.

Amanda: 51:30

It kind of does. And again, it's a very interesting kind of washing of Kate sins. Yeah. Whereas again, I'm not sure that he looks at Sawyer and thinks the same thing. Yeah,

Kip: 51:43

exactly. Yeah, I agree. And then the other pretty music starts. That's a beautiful montage.

Theresa: 51:50

And that

Amanda: 51:50

moment where side throws that up, this wire is so beautiful to me. Sawyer

Kip: 51:56

was so upset that he legit looks upset and like devastated. And then he gets the food thrown at him and also Boone giving Shannon the sunglasses, not the channel deserves it, but

Amanda: 52:06

and it just says more about him. Right. That's the other thing that I think this show teaches you a lot and what most rational human beings should understand is a lot of times you have to do things like that, because it's not about chat and not deserving it. But it's about Boone staying who Boone is while stuck on this, you know, Island, right? Like it would be very easy for them all to turn into monsters and jerks, but they those that won't, won't. Yeah. And I like that too.

Kip: 52:35

We kind of we kind of all talk about it. Now throughout this throughout the episode, Locke is whittling away at something needs cleaning a whistle. And Charlie asks him what he's doing and we find out he's making a dog whistle and then you see him whistling and Vincent comes running out of the woods and grabs Vincent and says to Michael, you know, I found your son's dog. i He told me his mom died. I think you should be the one that give it to him, tied him up and let's make Go Go get the dog and be the hero.

Amanda: 53:05

And that is that is the, you know, a very redeeming moment for him. I think that was the right way to do that. I thought it was very sweet. For Locke. Yes. Yeah. And then on top of it to be like if you just go to the trouble to get Vinson back for Walt, but also to be like, they need this like, exactly we might call like he needs a reason to.

Theresa: 53:24

And Michael is so quick to be like, Yeah, thanks. Especially after. Especially because earlier in the episode we hear Michael essentially grilling, Walt about Locke being like, I don't think you should be friends with him. And then when locks like I did this for you, it's like, Thanks, man. But I didn't trust you 20 minutes ago. But like, at this point, Walt has only known loss. And now the only friend which I wish it wasn't the creepy old man. You are immediately taking away his only friend on an island, where I think what Michael probably could have done was like, have a conversation with Locke. And just be like,

Kip: 54:05

for like, why don't I play a game with you guys too? Yeah, like, join it. Yeah,

Theresa: 54:09

there was a better way to handle that because this can only knows last he is clearly upset. You guys don't have a relationship and you're taking away the only friend he has. And then at the end of the day, that friend helps you out. And you're like, Yep, thanks.

Amanda: 54:24

I mean, I think that but I think Locke did the right thing to like I think lock probably should have also been like, Hey, Michael I playing games with your son and I'm not a weirdo. creepo you know, Michael was asking questions about him and things like not getting out and very satisfying answers from walls in the beginning. So yeah, I do think Locke did the right thing too by being like, like going through Michael like, I think it was just kind of a weird misunderstanding. And it is weird. Yeah. But I think at the end like it's not okay for Locke to hang out with just a little boy. It's not okay for Michael to be so dismissive of any sort of by Adding relationships that could help Walt to prosper on the island. Yeah. But it's all new and it's all early and we'll see how all that develops.

Kip: 55:08

This beautiful moment of you know, people coming to terms a little bit with the reality you know, these nice touches of say ye throwing Sawyer an apple and boom, given Shannon sunglasses, and this music is gorgeous. It's like a ukulele and lovely and it's got his Discman, and, you know, Michaels coming down the beach with the dog and was so excited and they're so happy and loving and beautiful. Musics slowly fades away in this ominous deep bass starts to ramp up and the camera pans around locks face, and he's just staring at them celebrating this dog. Like staring,

Theresa: 55:54

it's very uncomfortable.

Amanda: 55:56

I don't know what they're trying to do here with with him at this point. I really don't know where we're supposed to go. So

Kip: 56:02

sort of looked at the official synopsis for the write up of the end of the episode. The final moments of the episode are a montage of different characters interacting with each other on the beach, concluding with Michael bringing Vincent to an overjoyed Walt and Locke looking on with a furtive expression. What does furtive mean you ask? Attempting to avoid notice or attention? Typically, because of guilt, or a belief that discovery would lead to trouble? Semicolon secretive?

Amanda: 56:36

I'm just confused. That really doesn't have that where they are actually trying to take this though. Because next week's episode is going to be a lock centric episode. Yeah. And although I haven't rewatched it for the purposes of the podcast. I do remember it. And I remember where we're going with locks character, obviously. Yeah. And I think this is a little misleading, to be honest.

Kip: 57:03

I have to agree. Because again, it's ominous and kind of dark and unsettling. And I don't necessarily think it gets explained all that well. No, no, and it was like a very deliberate ending to the episode. Yes. Yes. Zoom

Theresa: 57:20

it like a pan zoom in. Exactly.

Amanda: 57:37

Like that is when you hear that? You think he's a serial killer. Exactly. Who's going to kill them all on their sleep tonight? Yeah, probably

Theresa: 57:44

Walt bit them and it goes back. It's like, in the beginning, Locke was creepy. It's creepy. Weird. There was the orange. There was this and then the rain being weird. There was the want to know a secret or whatever, to a child. And he's like, You know what I'm gonna, I'm gonna do a good thing. And I'm gonna whittle the whistle. I'm gonna get that dog back and I'm gonna let than the father son have their moment while I look menacingly from it.

Amanda: 58:06

So my question would be, honestly, if we had Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse here is was that a misdirect? Or were they planning on taking him in a different direction? Because he's not one. He's not one note. And I'm not saying he's not doesn't have his moments of being dark, for lack of a better word, and you'll see some ups and downs with Locke throughout the seasons, but he is not as creepy. I cannot think of a single moment where he is as creepy as that scene, suggests he is

Kip: 58:41

well and that's just it, three episodes in and he is very creepy. There's no denying it, the music, the sound, the camerawork, the look on his face was all deliberately to make him look creepy. Yeah, for lack of a better word.

Amanda: 58:56

And that is going to be a wonderful lead into next week's episode because I feel like they do almost a one ad Yeah. So look forward to that and some word, diving into why Locke is the way he is and why he's being retrieved the way he is and what it all means.

Kip: 59:16

I think now's a good time for Theresa to lead us into her weekly moment of her stream of consciousness what she thinks as she watches as well as her very scientific and mathematically accurate character rankings and please please fill us in on the the rankings as well like the numbers I want to know the numbers after when you do the rankings. Okay, that sounds good. And we'll follow that up with Dan's hot take.

Theresa: 59:43

Oh, yeah. All right. So my pop start off with when you wake up. Do you think about your cuffs? Do you carry spare cuffs? Do you know that she uncuffed herself? Do you know that they found the cuffs? Why are we talking about cuffs also Jack's face right now is trimming our comm on man, I liked her, but then he gives up on that right away. Oh no, not another demo of this plane thing. Also, was it just me or is Kate screaming? I'm sketchy so far in this episode. Also, did everyone get sketchy all of a sudden? I don't understand also, why Kate? Why are we looking at to Kate all the time? Well, it's just to sketch bags being sketchy while thinking what their pain in vain. Also, if it's not your biz Jack, why did you ask anything else? Also, did anyone notice that these plans are really quite thin? Is this how all plans are? I thought they'd be thicker also, Jack aren't you technically doing the same as him? But all those dimples though. Also, Jen, why do you have to be so rude but also fun question. Why is she dirtier than everyone else? Including Jen also look at these cuties. And I mean Claire and Charlie. But poor Hurley also Kate like worse people would be freaked out by you can't smile away your creepiness? Oh, yeah. That is fair. Also, why are you hovering over him? Kate, you're not exactly the innocent here. You went in there and hovered over him. Also, technically Jack, you don't know that she's innocent either. Just everyone on this island and their damn assumptions. Also, why is 23,000 Such a random number? I don't know how rewards work. Do people still do this? Is this like the Wild West? Also, I think that's another red flag for Locke. Also, I feel like Michaels Inquisition is because he's jealous and he's actually not being protected. Also, Michael, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and stop complaining. Also, Michael, please stop looking at her. Do not approach her stop minus 100 you stop this right now. I like what you're doing. Why can't I make anything? Also, why is Charlie so precious? Also Shannon stopped speaking. Also, I feel like I want Saeed and Jack to form an alliance they'd be unstoppable. I can't catch anything in the dark. And here's Kate catching a lighter with one hand. Oh, right. When the Marshall wakes up. I'm sure he was thinking I want nothing more than to drink water from that dirty rag and Jack's hand. Also did he have feelings for her? Also, why doesn't rage just pull over? All of this drama is unnecessary. And oh my god, Kate, what did you do? And now you've left his arm behind. He only has one Kate. You're such a mess. She's so done up for a prisoner. You don't look free to me. Oh, no. Oh, sorry. I look so sad. Also, this is a shit situation and Sawyer looks messed up. Like I'm not saying he's badass. It's clear. He's not as bad as he thinks he is. Oh, Jack. I'm so sorry. Also, how does anyone just know how to make a dog whistle like all right. Okay, so Locke isn't a creepy he's just a nice old man with creepy tendencies. All right, and we're back to Jack and Kate. Pain being king and queen. Do you think everyone should have blank slates we think curly so sweetie. Found a disk man. And now I feel like there's hope sign Sawyer. Definitely the best scene in this montage. And I think I might hate Michael. Also. Don't talk to that man. But I'll take his dog attempt. Also, why fate to late? What are we late for? Plus 100 Lock for the dog. Okay, minus 1000 for whatever the hell you think you're doing right now? The end?

Kip: 1:03:21

Yeah, that was a good synced thought process of that episode. I feel especially I

Amanda: 1:03:27

really did like the real time reaction to oh, he's not so oh my god, he's a freak. That is really the right react.

Theresa: 1:03:34

I was I was in the middle of writing. And I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. And this

Amanda: 1:03:39

is very quickly before you move on to here drinks. We didn't really mention the 23,000 No, very random, not 20, not 25 23,000. So the question becomes, is that just some sort of weird Australian to American dollar currency swap?

Kip: 1:03:56

Is it random? Or is it more?

Amanda: 1:03:58

And now for the character rankings?

Theresa: 1:04:02

Are these random? Or are

Kip: 1:04:03

they more?

Amanda: 1:04:04

Well, we know at least that lock we had a snippet of lock going down 1000 points. You're

Theresa: 1:04:10

gonna start at number 14. And I'm sure based on my stream of consciousness, this is not a surprise to anyone. Michael with minus 380. Then we have Shannon minus 330. Kate minus 225 loc minus 210. Sawyer minus 40. Jen minus 31 to minus 20. Now we're going into the positives we got half below zero half above son with five being 15 Jack 40. Hurley 65 Charlie 75 Claire 80 and side with a whopping 90

Amanda: 1:04:44

These were this is a good site you'd have started a bad kid episode so that makes sense.

Kip: 1:04:48

Why was Sawyer so low?

Theresa: 1:04:51

I didn't love the nicknames. Okay, the dimples got him up a little bit. Freckles was really cute. I didn't love what he was calling saying no, I Um And he also did

Amanda: 1:05:02

shoot someone in the chat fail not great

Theresa: 1:05:06

but to be fair between Episode two and now he did go up

Kip: 1:05:12

okay yeah so what I'd like to know maybe we'll put this on like the socials the week by week differences between because to me that's where the real magic absolutely

Amanda: 1:05:25

I'm sure most people like would think like when the episode centers on you that that might give you an opportunity to gain points and traces system but really Kate really got screwed by her own episode this week

Kip: 1:05:38

well let's have Amanda do our one of our favorite segments and she's going to interview Dan and get Dan's hot take

Amanda: 1:05:47

yes and for those just joining us and not sure exactly what that means as you know me trees and Kip have all watched this show over the years and various times and our what I like to refer to as lost pros Not really, but we do have a history with the show and we know that many of you joining us do as well but we're also hoping that there's few people out there that are tuning into it for the first time and so we could really bring you the whole well rounded experience we're bringing in our friend Dan to give his hot takes as an person watching it for the first time in the year 2022

Kip: 1:06:22

So my first thought for 10 minutes of this episode and even afterwards was why is this show so popular? Because it's not I did not find it a very entertaining episode but it was really difficult for it to appear to be a strong disaster show or a strong stranded on this deserted island show that didn't really have a purpose. It felt like if you didn't watch this episode, you probably wouldn't be missing much I mean beyond being threatened by these dinosaurs or prehistoric creatures or whatever they are they keep alluding to those but they haven't haven't addressed those too much especially in this episode like they just make mention of them and then at one point he's being chased by one favorite character would probably be oh gosh

Amanda: 1:07:18

a good sign for Lost

Kip: 1:07:27

Well, I wouldn't say any of them are that likable yet? I mean, you have the doctor who's being admirable, but I don't know if any of them what could be considered like really likable at this point. They've I mean, maybe, boy, I don't even know though Lee's favorite character is the I don't even know what her name is the really annoying girl that supposedly speaks French. Oh, Shannon. Yeah, that felt like that character aged horribly is felt like an old show watching that because it was very stereotypical, obviously, based on like Paris Hilton, or one of these socialites of the 2000s. It was not well written, not well acted, I think just probably one of the weakest characters. And it besides her character, I would say the rest of the show holds up fairly well. Like it doesn't seem that older doesn't seem that age, but definitely that that character ages the show.

Amanda: 1:08:18

Alright, final question. And I think I know the answer. If we weren't making you watch this every week to give us your recap, would you have continued watching it based on this episode?

Daniel: 1:08:28

No.

Kip: 1:08:30

And that brings us to the end of tabula rasa overall.

Amanda: 1:08:37

And as you know, a new segment we've decided to start now that we're getting a little bit more into the meat and bones of everything is we're also going to give our personal writing out of 10 each week. As you recall from the beginning, I this got to 8.4 out of 10 on IMDb. I personally would rank it probably more around a six or a seven out of 10. And not just because of my hatred of Kate. But I do think that we don't get a lot of good character development out of her. And I just, I wasn't loving the storytelling in this. So

Theresa: 1:09:12

yeah, I think I'm gonna be with Amanda on this one. I'd probably give to six. I didn't love this episode. I think the other ones were just so much more exciting and then having Kate kind of be the first flashback. She's for sure. Not one of the most interesting and I find that her relationship with Jack is kind of annoying. And the ending is just so disturbing after that montage that like, it makes me want to watch more. But overall, the episode wasn't enough for me to give it anything higher than that to be honest.

Kip: 1:09:43

Yeah, I would go with a six. For me, I think I would give it a six is because I've thought it was odd to have Kate as the first sort of real episode. And there was just no supernatural sort of mystery. Various things that last is all about. There was no mystery there. I thought you did get some decent character development in the sense of development and that's forward but you got some reinforcement character reinforcement, which is okay, but I really miss the mysteriousness of the whole island reset us in this episode. There was nothing. There was nothing none of that.

Amanda: 1:10:22

Well, thank you so much for tuning in this week to tabula rasa. And join us next week when we talk about Episode Four walkabout and spoiler alert, it is a law flashback episode,

Kip: 1:10:34

and we're gonna have special guests with us.

Amanda: 1:10:36

We will see you then.

Theresa: 1:10:42

Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Let's get lost. Be sure to tune in next week wherever you listen to your podcasts and follow us on Instagram and Twitter. Let's get lost dot pod. links to our website and Patreon can be found in our profile. Join our patreon for only $3 a month for exclusive access and content like spoiler Island. Be sure to get lost with us again next time. Bye