Let's Get Lost with The Oceanic Three
We're your Oceanic Three: Theresa, Amanda, and Kip. Join us as we get in-depth about our favourite television show - Lost! We talk about everything: The Island, The Survivors, The Tailies, The Others, The Myths, The Theories, and on and on and on, but we also talk about how Lost changed the television landscape when it came out and how it still reverberates to this day.
Most of all, though, we always come back to how Lost is primarily a character-driven show. For every myth and mystery, five incredible character stories were told. They were complex, mysterious, beautiful, and sometimes challenging to watch - but the characters and their interwoven lives brought Lost to a different level unlike anything ever seen on television.
We would love it if you joined us as we get in-depth about all the Losties, what makes them tick, why they do what they do, and ultimately - what they're doing on the Island.
Let's Get Lost with The Oceanic Three
Let's Get Lost 4 - White Rabbit
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Live together or die alone.
It’s been six days on the island and our castaways are starting to really wonder if anyone is coming to their rescue. We see our first death that wasn’t due to the plane crash, our survivors are starting to run out of resources and someone’s stolen the last of their water supply. We delve a little deeper into our reluctant hero and leader, Jack, taking a brief look at his past, childhood, seemingly complicated relationship with his father and what brought him to Australia. As he struggles to solve the group’s conflicts, familial hallucinations occupy his mind and lead him deep into the jungle. Is he crazy? Dehydrated? Running away from his responsibilities?
Listen in and see how we feel about the episode’s revelations and Jack’s internal struggles, what new goal Amanda is committing to, and if we know what ocean the plane was crossing before it crashed… Hint: geography is not our strong suit.
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We're three best friends and we love lost and we love talking, but even more so we love talking about lost. So join us for some laughs good conversation, and let's get lost together.
Theresa:Welcome back everyone to let's get lost podcast, a rewatch podcast by myself. Kip and Amanda, and today we're talking about episode five white rabbit. Amanda's gonna let us know a little more about it.
Amanda:Yeah. So as Theresa said, we're on episode five of season one white rabbit, which was written by Christian Taylor and directed by Kevin hooks. In this episode, while bordering on exhaustion, Jack repeatedly sees a mystery, a mysterious man watching him from afar. He asks the other survivors if they've seen him too, but no one has haunted by the strange vision. Jack follows the man only to recognize him as someone to whom he was very close. Meanwhile, the water supply runs, it dangerously low, a situation that erupts into violence when someone steals the last remaining bottles.
Kip:So this is an interesting episode. It's the first Jack centric episode.
Amanda:It is.
Kip:And as is our, you know, thing, I'm gonna do some facts and trivia for you guys. We'll start with some facts. Okay. We had a decrease in viewership this episode from the wonderful, um, other one last week's episode, the John lock heavy one,
Amanda:but you know, it's interesting, cuz that probably means that people didn't like the lock episode,
Kip:but yet it's known as like the best episode.
Amanda:Well, that is something about it made people be like, I'm not tuning in next week.
Kip:That's true. Hmm. I wonder what it was.
Theresa:Is that what it, I mean the other thing that I kind of wonder is like, is it, I mean, no, but like we're talking about this was years ago. Like how do we know there? Wasn't like some, you know, special event on like another channel
Kip:good thing. Cause there was only 2 million people,
Theresa:you know what I mean? It could be like maybe,
Kip:well, I guess that's a lot
Theresa:the, you know, season or se serious amount of something or I don't know. It could be
Amanda:the Superbowl.
Theresa:Yeah, no was it on Sunday? No, no, no it on no Wednesdays.
Kip:Also, this would've been like the, well, this is the fifth episode, so it would've been in like October, November, maybe,
Theresa:maybe it's Halloween,
Amanda:maybe. Grey cup,
Kip:Grey cup. Yeah. Right. No. Oh my God. Don't think Grey Cups. ever had more than 150 thousand. No, I
Theresa:don't think don't think that's it. Um, maybe
Amanda:is it even televised?
Theresa:maybe it was Thanksgiving or, I mean, I guess I'm only thinking like Canadian Thanksgiving, but like Halloween,
Kip:but it did rank also less in ratings, according to IMDB, only 8.4 out of 10 where the a previous one was nine out of 10. Yeah.
Theresa:I think I
Amanda:agree with that. I would pay more into that than, yeah. Yeah. Because you know, like you said, viewers viewership was different back then and the way it's ranked is probably it's interesting, cuz I would've said I like this episode better than last week's but less intrigue. So maybe that's what it is.
Kip:See, I feel like, well, I feel like there's more intrigue in this one. Mm, more about the island intrigue. Less about an individual intrigue.
Amanda:True. Yeah.
Kip:But, um, this is day six on the island. Mm-hmm so almost a week. Now these people have been here. No help. And you're starting to see it come out. I mean, there's quite a few times this episode where people say things like, I don't think anyone's coming mm-hmm I don't think they're coming for us. When will someone come? I don't think they are. So it's like really starting to sink in. Yeah. So who can guess the number of nicknames? Oh, geez. Soyer's
Theresa:nickname counts. Okay. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Sticks. Yeah. That's. Mr. Miyagi. That's two that's terrible
Kip:freckles. Uh, no, he doesn't say that in
Theresa:this episode. He does not, he doesn't call Kate
Amanda:anything. He refers to her as being the new sheriff in town, right? Yeah. But he doesn't call. I don't that's no, no, no, but I maybe that's what you're
Kip:thinking. Yeah. Yeah. So those are the only two sticks. And Mr. MIGI light
Theresa:stick, I can't light
Amanda:sticks. Like my dear legs.
Theresa:Actually. I
Kip:love that one. She's like, what the hell are light sticks?
Amanda:I just can't believe both of his nicknames are offensive in this one. You can't believe that yeah, I was gonna say actually I can't entirely believe that.
Kip:Yeah. Yeah. So, um, those are the facts. Now I'm gonna read you the trivia. Oh God. Right. Are you ready for this? Yeah, I don't remember
Theresa:what my sound is, but just w wing it. Okay. I'm gonna wing
Kip:it, wing it. What's the name of the airline attendant Jack yells at, in the airport.
Theresa:God
Amanda:I'll give it to her. Cause
Theresa:Chrissy. Yeah, Chris a yeah. Yeah.
Amanda:What a Chrissy and like, say her name so
Theresa:much. He's upset you guys.
Kip:I know, but. Well talk about this later, but I did not like that monologue. No,
Theresa:me
Kip:neither. Yes. It was uncomfortable. Okay. What book is Sawyer
Theresa:reading do do
Amanda:mm-hmm I'll lot of it to her Watership down
Kip:that's right. Which is interesting. Cuz D do either of, you know, the synopsis
Amanda:of Watership down. No, but I am committing on air to something I've decided to do. I decided to read every book that Sawyer reads. Oh, I love it on the island. I
Kip:love it. And that can be, you can write reviews. Yeah. It'll go on our website as a companion.
Theresa:Absolutely. And it'll be on our Patreon.
Amanda:Yes. So I, but I think that'd be fun to read. I think that's a great idea. I dunno if I can keep up with him though. He's quite the prolific reader in the beginning. Also. He has nothing else
Theresa:to do.
Amanda:I have alarmingly. You have a job
Theresa:to do have a job you
Kip:have lots to do. Yeah. Um, so what's interesting about Watership down is it is about, this is the synopsis rabbits mm-hmm , and the episode is also called bite rabbit. So there's a connection, but this book is about rabbits who escape the destruction of their home and seek a place to establish a new home encounter, perils and temptations along the way. So do we see parallels there?
Amanda:Mm-hmm yeah. Especially if you think like big picture mm-hmm but also little picture in this episode, because, or led to something at the end of this episode, that is going to be a big part yeah. Of the season one arc mm-hmm totally about
Kip:homes. And I didn't even think of big picture. I, I was on honestly, just thinking of yeah. Like the episode and the seasonal art, but yeah, you're right. Big picture too. Mm-hmm huge. Huge connections. Definitely. All right. Final question. how many survivors does Jack, correct? I,
Theresa:yes. Uh, someone said 47 it's and he goes 46. That's right. There's 46 of us now. Yes. Yes. Because Joanna unfortunately
Amanda:passed virtually perished quite dramatically. Very
Theresa:dramatically. She just went first swim this morning. Oh, that's a good segue
Amanda:into the episode. Yeah.
Theresa:It's
Amanda:to begin. I just wanna say something. Yes, please do. And I wondered what, so the episode opens on a flashback. and it opens on a young who we learned to be Jack in essentially the same way the pilot opens on adult Jack mm-hmm mm-hmm . So eyeball, eyeball, eyeball, and something traumatic kind of happening to you running
Kip:to the rescue. Ugh.
Amanda:Jack has per and your patterns,
Theresa:patterns, except this time, instead of being punched in the face, he actually saves people. Yeah. Well he's grown kind. Yeah. He's an adult now
Amanda:kind Chrissy might argue.
Kip:Chrissy's not impressed. Yeah, that, that was a interesting flashback to begin it. I mean, obviously, cause it's a Jack centric episode. Um, I actually totally forgot about that. How it starts off when he's a little kid and then later you see the, the flashback with his dad. Uh, we'll talk about that later, but um, yeah. Quit the, uh, quit the gumbo, those two mm-hmm yeah. My first question was, and then I answered myself after was, was that woman in the ocean even real.
Amanda:I also had a moment where, because again, as our listener knows, they are like, we've seen it all before the three of us, so often things will happen. And I'm kind of like, almost guessing what's happening next or having like memories of what I think's gonna happen next. Yeah. And for this, I was kinda like, is there another person in, I had kind of forgot too, that she was real me
Kip:too. And, and even after I was thinking, but what, or was she some sort of. Vision mm-hmm that Jack saw will know. It couldn't be because everyone was talking about it, including her name, why she was on the flight, her ear infection. Yeah. So if you had an ear infection, why were you swimming
Theresa:in the ocean? I know it's just not smart. Joanna
Kip:she's bull also. Why didn't no one else either to help bring boon back mm-hmm or to see that Jack's bringing boom back and then to go help Joanna
Amanda:or when he goes back again, they're just like just standing there. Yeah. I, I wrote that down too. I was like, yeah, that's what I was saying. No one else can do anything on this island.
Theresa:Yeah, exactly. Especially because like, it's not, no, one's asking you to go swim out there, but at least like help the person who's swimming back and forth. Like that's, that's some distances he's going and he's like towing a person back to water. Exactly. And the only people that came up were when he was already standing.
Amanda:And we're Kate and Charlie and Charlie was the one who at least got Jack and was like, I can't swim. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I noticed that too. I'm like, and, and I do wonder, because we are gonna see later on when Charlie and Hurley are like, kind of harassing Jack, is it because everyone is useless or is it because everyone just expects this of Jack now? Mm-hmm, , Jack's taking care of it. Yeah. We don't need to participate.
Kip:Well, absolutely. Like, it seems like everyone's, as Locke says later on, they look to him as a leader, but that's of his own making really mm-hmm he's in, in. Asserted himself as the leader, without even asking or looking around on the beach to even see if anyone else is going to help. He just dives right in mm-hmm . I mean, I guess it was pretty clear. Everyone was just standing around they're like
Amanda:idiots and the only other person who ever does help is Boone. Yeah. And Boone always gets kind of shit on for it. Mm-hmm from Jack and also others. But can I just say it is kind of hilarious that this is now the second time Boone has failed at what is essentially supposed to be his livelihood of being a lifeguard
Theresa:yeah, that's right. I that's a business, but he's, it's not a lifeguarding business. He said he's a lifeguard. I mean, he's probably when he was like younger, I'm just saying I do agree. Like that was . I mean, you never know what happened, right? He's like, it's probably dehydrated, maybe cramped up, but I mean,
Kip:he looked pretty bad.
Theresa:Yeah. He like, he, he was pulled out from under the water, which means at that point, like he was drowning, like mm-hmm, seriously drowning. And then for him to be like, it's okay. It's like, well, no, if he lets go, you're gonna go back under. This was a disappointing episode for Boone. It is
Amanda:same. It is.
Kip:I'm I'm sure that will reflect on the ranking.
Amanda:The ultimate rankings we shall see it
Theresa:will
Amanda:so ultimately we see, and I think when, when he's heading out to save Joanna, you don't even realize Boone's in the water. No. And then all of a sudden he's pulling up Boone mm-hmm and then you wonder like, okay, was it Boone like what's happening?
Kip:Because it sounded like a
Amanda:woman screaming. Yeah. Mm-hmm and then ultimately he takes Boone back and tries to go in safer her. Um, and he's, he's made a choice now, did he make that choice because he knows Boone or did he make that choice? Just cuz Boone was closer. He thought he was worse off. It's not really contemplated,
Theresa:but
Kip:well, maybe not so much out loud, but it's almost alluded to when Jack is like, we've been here six days and I never even yeah. Talked to her. I never, I didn't even know her name. And so maybe you're right. Maybe it was like an unconscious bias. He, how was that for Boone? Because he knows him. He had interactions with him, et cetera. So it's, um, yeah, that's a really good point.
Theresa:I don't know. I tried to kind of think of it from like a, like a realistic point of view. Like if you're going out there to save someone and I get that, he went there initially to save that woman or whatever, first of all, it's not easy to bring two people back with you. And the thing is he would have to bring Boone all the way there to get her and then take them both back. Like there's no, I mean, honestly, they they'd all die well, and he
Kip:did say he made a choice, a decision or whatever. However, he says it
Theresa:as terrible as it sounds like it was the right one. Like either they were all gonna die out there together, or he could save one, like, I'm pretty confident that the three of them would die out there. a Boone can barely hold himself up.
Amanda:Well, the other thing is like, even just on like a, you know, evolutionary, like, you know, cost analysis type decision, he saved someone who is probably more useful. Yeah. Because he at least knows who Boone is. Boone's participated in something for him to come to Jack's attention. Yeah. I don't know. It probably was the better choice. Right. Like, not that that's what matters, but they're, they are starting to struggle. Yeah. Yeah. And they are gonna start losing people. Mm-hmm exactly. And they're gonna have to all make tough choices.
Theresa:Exactly. I mean, that's unfortunate that the, that the one he saves is the one who tries to do the right thing and then actually ends up causing more work, um, for Boone. Yeah. Right. that's my main rice was just kind of unfortunate, but like. That's that's his heart's in the right place, but he's just not like the execution is not equipped lacking. He's so, so beautiful.
Amanda:Oh my God. His eye does not hurt. And
Theresa:his eyelashes are so long. It's so upsetting.
Amanda:We love you Ian summer holder but yeah, so that that's kind of like dramatic start. Yeah. And it sets
Kip:the tone essentially for the episode. Um, Jack sees the man in the water, but I don't know, is this before or after Michael yells at his son for asking a fucking
Amanda:question? Oh my God. And can we just say that the answer to the question is so cuz it's full of salt. Yeah. Cause it's salty it's it takes as many words as being like, I
Theresa:can't even with him honestly, like I think we all know where he's gone in the ring.
Amanda:Oh, I don't know though. Cuz he does something nice at the
Theresa:end. Not enough. It's not enough, honestly. We'll there. It's not enough because like that was just so uncalled for, he's just such an asshole today. Like he's that, that poor child. All he's doing
Kip:is brushing his teeth like dear Michael,
Theresa:he's being responsible. Exactly. And honestly, you guys are in the same situation. except he's younger than you. And he just lost his. And now he's being forced to go with you. And all you do is yell at him and
Amanda:like, fine. You wanna yell at him because you're not great in situations. And you don't know how to parent and he's running around a muck with John Locke. You wanna yell at him for that? Fine. You don't need to yell at him for being like, why does it make you thirsty? Is he so inappropriate? Just say, because it's full of salt water and the salt makes you thirstier. You ever have a pretzel
Kip:pretzels are making me
Theresa:thirsty. Yeah. I feel like my mom would be like, just try it and see what happens. And then I would do it. Exactly. And then I'd be like, it's salty. Like why didn't it just, the reaction did not, did not have to be that extreme for that question. Like what happened to you? Well, we
Kip:may find out we may, I, I don't know. I feel like we might find out.
Amanda:I don't remember to be honest. I mean, if it makes you feel better, next episode, you're gonna be really vindicated in his episode is the next one. I don't remember. You'll be satisfied with how it begins. Oh, just say the, um, Michael's son, um, comes June. Situation comes to a unfortunate head
Theresa:house of the rising sun. I actually like, I'm not even joking when I say I didn have no idea. Oh, you're in per yeah. So I mean, I mean, is it gonna
Amanda:be, it's not that I'm saying he deserves anything bad, but
Kip:doesn't he? Yeah, there's a whole lot going on. That's not positive that let me get the, um, the transition of Shannon's legs and flip flops, walking studiously across the sand to Sawyer. Who's reading Watership down. Mm-hmm . and says, do you have it? Do you have my stuff or whatever she says, I don't know.
Theresa:leading
Amanda:to the first nickname of
Kip:you're in my light sticks.
Theresa:I love that. It's very clear. He saying you're in my light sticks. Like you are, I'm calling you sticks. Like, I don't understand that.
Kip:So here's my question about this interaction that I don't really get. Why is she so angry walking up to him in the first place? Like she starts out sort of confrontational.
Amanda:I think that's just Shannon's default maybe. And I think that's also just the way everyone treats Sawyer. Yeah. And I think that scene was very. was strategically placed to show to, to demonstrate that Sawyer's supposed to be kinda the keeper of all items. Mm-hmm mm-hmm so when the water inevitably goes missing later, we're reminded that Sawyer's probably the most likely suspect because he has everything and he is always taking things and he is always manipulating people and trying to sell them stuff. So, yeah. That's
Kip:true. Yeah.
Theresa:Also she has sand fleas.
Kip:Why did she throw it back at
Amanda:him? I think she still thought he was suggesting that she should pay him in sexual
Theresa:favors. Oh, he would not wanna do that, I
Amanda:guess. I think that's what he was. She was thinking he was alluding
Theresa:to,
Kip:I think so too. I mean, he didn't do anything to not let her mind go there. So, so I think he
Amanda:did, but yeah, he was just, it's another little scene to demonstrate that he doesn't give a shit. He has all the items. And he doesn't mind, you know, hoarding them over people.
Kip:Yeah, exactly. So continuing on the theme of shitty fathers, and then we go to the flashback where young Jack meets Jack's father in his office or study or whatever, something. Yeah. And he's just a total asshole plea, just so mean, like. Here's my thing, like, do you think in his weird sort of I'm a macho no. Itall chief of surgeon, dude. He was trying to inspire Jack by being like, kind of like a prove me wrong.
Amanda:I think he's just that full of himself. Yeah. Like I think he literally thinks that he. He can do anything and he has that personality and he has what it takes and he's able to watch it. He's able to make tough decisions. And if those decisions don't go the right way, he's fine with it. Yeah. Cause that's what you have to be able to do to have what it
Kip:takes. I can watch a kid die and come home and laugh. Yeah. My side's off until to Carol Burnett or whatever. Right. Like, yeah.
Amanda:And I, I do think in his own messed up way, he is trying to teach Jack something. Mm-hmm that he doesn't, he can't do that. Yeah. He's never gonna be the kind of guy who can look like. He's always gonna be the kind of guy who wants to insert himself. And if he doesn't wanna be that, if he wants to be successful, he can't and he wants to be. you know, to have what it takes or to, you know, do what you have to do. Then he can't do that because he'll never be able to separate it.
Kip:And I mean, there's some good insight because to this day he's still doing that inserting himself mm-hmm yeah. Unnecessarily and having major complications
Amanda:because of it. And his dad was an asshole to say that. So what I'm guessing a like 13, 14 year old kid, somewhere in there, he was a, that was a complete asshole move. Yeah. But he's not wrong. Yeah. Like Jack is always is the kind of person who inserts himself into situations and he isn't able to take it because he's not okay with what happened with Joanna and Boone mm-hmm and, and he shuts down because of it. Mm-hmm right. And that is, it does. I mean, I, knowing what we know about Jack going forward, but at this point, if I was a first time watcher, I would be questioning like, how is this man? A doctor . Yeah. Right. because what it looks like is when he has to make a tough decision and it doesn't go the way he wants he bails. Cause now he's just like, I don't wanna make any decision. I don't wanna be in charge. Yeah. I can't be in charge. I don't have what it takes. Mm-hmm , I'm remembering my 12 year old self being pulled up by my dad. I let Joanna die to save Boone. Like, and then he just is like, I'm not making any decisions. Why do I have
Kip:to do it? Yeah. Mm-hmm yeah, he kind of has that freak out moment to Charlie and, and Hurley. And I mean, they were being very pestering in their delivery of those questions. I will
Theresa:admit. And having both of them at the same time, like asking you these things, like it would piss anybody off. But I think for him, because he's just so incapable he's he has no real like coping mechanism for these things. No,
Amanda:but the question always becomes is Jack, was Jack always going to be like that or is it because he constantly re hears Christian? Um, is it because he told him that his whole life and that's all he hears. You know, we see that he was getting invites and things like that. So was that always kind of who Jack was gonna be? Mm-hmm right. This idea of Jack's fate and Jack's personality and how much of it shaped by having clearly a Dick for a father?
Kip:Yeah. And I mean, there's, that's a big theme on the show is shitty parents. Mm-hmm yeah. I mean the fathers pretty much all suck, not so great mothers either. Like I'm not talking about necessarily the island people, but their parents. And we'll see throughout the rest of the series, how horrible a lot of the parents are to the characters,
Amanda:bad parenting is for sure. And not only just showing what bad parenting looks like, but what bad parenting can create.
Kip:Totally Jack kind of storm. Well, I guess he doesn't storm off. He, well, he does, but he sees his father mm-hmm mm-hmm Oh, no, no. First Boone comes to him and kind of like accost him about, Hey, why'd you why'd you save me, save me, blah, blah, blah. I run a business.
Theresa:I run a business. It's like, okay, that's not the same swimming. Okay. Very different. Unless it's like a pool business or lifeguarding, I don't know. But that was so
Kip:silly. And then he got so mad when Jack just walks off just like, Hey, Hey, I'm doning. But so Jack walks off because he sees a man in a suit. We don't know who he is yet. Technically follows him into the Bush jungle woods.
Theresa:Flott
Amanda:I think they call it the jungle trees. Trees. Yeah. And I mean, it is, it is weird, right?
Kip:Yeah, absolutely. And it's creepy, like, I'd say this is one of the, this was the first episode where it
Amanda:felt creepy. I was gonna say, when I was watching it, I was like, I don't, I was gonna actually text you guys and be. I don't remember this being so scary.
Theresa:yeah, I think I remember the first time I watched it, this being the episode where I was like, I'm not sure what I'm watching mm-hmm because I know like, you know, with the whole smoke monster thing, like yeah. You're just kinda like, you know, like you think it's like a supernatural thing, but like seeing, you know, what looks like someone's dad dressed in blood? Well, they've done
Amanda:an incredible job really because they start out and like I said, I forgot how early they start, that we start kind of with the, the smoke monster and then the pilot being killed in a really fucked up way. Mm-hmm and then you see, you know, that lock can walk when he couldn't before and now we're seeing this kind of building on these like, okay, something weird's happening. Okay. Something with serious is happening. Something dangerous is happening. Okay. Something weird is happening and now we're kind like, okay, how are dead people walking around? We don't know he is dead at this point, but we know at the end, by the end of episode, we, yeah. That his dad isn't supposed to be there. Yeah, exactly. Right. So we know someone that he's there in some capacity, that's either not real or not appropriate.
Theresa:And it just kind of builds on like the last was, I think it was the last episode. Um, the lock episode where you first see. His dad, I guess like dressed in black and then lot comes out of the mm-hmm jungle with the, with the boar. And I just remember that moment just being like a, and then now to have it like so prominent throughout the episode, I'm just kinda like,
Amanda:I'm not sure a hundred percent. So while this is kind of happening, we're back to Claire, right. Passing out on. Well, first there's that really weird scene where she's sorting clothes, Kate and I'm sorry, I'm not gonna say it. I
Theresa:fucking love Claire. Oh, she's so she's so cute. So cute. Oh, you a Gemini she puts
Kip:the hat on. Like it's
Amanda:just like, yeah, like, and then she's like, I knew it, like she just
Theresa:like passionate. What was
Amanda:that restless? You're restless. I was like, oh my God. So that was a cute little scene. And again, I think they're just kind of trying to lay some groundwork and show you kind of a little bit more depth to each of these characters and, you know, I think we're supposed to kind of be falling a little bit in love with Claire mm-hmm Um, because she's so
Theresa:sweet, so sweet, very sweet.
Kip:Mm-hmm and I mean, , I'm probably. I dagger for this, but Kate is pretty good in that scene too.
Amanda:Yeah, just, I mean, she could just let her do her fucking chart. Like it clearly means a lot to Claire. I mean, I will say
Theresa:at least Kate was doing something helpful for one she shoot, except I, when she picked up like the tank top and she's like, from the not useful things, I'm like, that's a, at this point, like there's no stores here. you you're
Kip:Fil.
Amanda:But wasn't that more like lingerie, it was more like, it was like a nighty, but I will say I'm not sure. I think people wear way worse. I'm not sure that when you're stranded on an island, there's anything that's not useful. Okay. Well, that's
Theresa:what I mean, like, it's not like, it was like a, one of those I don't even know, but maybe, but
Kip:she was just sorting it outfit. She didn't say I'm throwing it away in fire's Parker
Amanda:which might even come,
Kip:she was just putting the lingerie in the sexy pile for sexy times. And then she's putting the cargo pants in the useful pile. Yeah,
Amanda:that's good. Yeah. She's probably like secretly like this isn't useful and then puts it in her pocket. no, but that wasn't, it is good. Kate, for all of her faults, I, she does participate and contribute and mm-hmm, more, why is not always clear because it's not always for the goodness of everyone, but she does. I'll give
Theresa:her that. Think I'll give her that all had to just slip that in there.
Kip:And I think maybe, maybe I'm wrong or misremembering, but I think Claire and Kate form are pretty. Solid friendship. They,
Amanda:yes, they do. Yes, they do. I
Theresa:wanna say yes, I don't. Oh,
Kip:okay. So there's some
Amanda:looks coming around when we go to our segment later on where we talk about, uh, how this all comes together on our Patreon. Uh, I will explain what I'm thinking
Kip:of. Good. Okay, good please. Because I, I'm not remembering a hundred percent, but I know that they're involved. Yeah. There are some issues. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Amanda:yeah, yeah. But eventually, you know, again, they're all, they're all kind of starting to panic, but water, how they're gonna get water. Um, and then the water that they do have goes missing. Yeah. So he, she, he, she passes out Walt. I don't know.
Kip:Let's Claire Kate know, I think it's Kate. Right? Mm-hmm so they go, they bring to the tent and. And yeah, water's missing, water's missing or I think was the, is that when they found out the water's missing? Yeah. Charlie's
Theresa:looking, um, mm-hmm
Amanda:cause
Theresa:they're trying to feed her water. Yeah. Because she's, she's running a fever. Right,
Amanda:right, right. So at some point before she's passing out, the water goes missing and then she's in the tent. Right. And then they're like panicking mm-hmm
Kip:and then you get probably one of the only, I mean, there's, I'm sure there's more in later seasons, only scene where I'm like so annoyed with Sied. Oh yeah. When he's just like yelling at sun, we're not yelling, but he's just like talking louder as if that she'll understand by talking louder.
Theresa:The
Amanda:worst part before that is when they're all trying to track on the water. And I can't remember, was it Hurley that someone says the Chinese people have it, is it Hurley? Yes, I believe so. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, that's just ignorant. Like you have been on an island with them for six days. You can't tell me you haven't been able to like, and they've
Kip:been looking through
Theresa:everyone's
Amanda:passports. Or maybe we don't specify, then we just say exactly the, why don't you just Asian individuals,
Theresa:those four, or you just, you know, the four finger
Amanda:point. Yeah. At this point, I'm sure someone they've known, they haven't been able to communicate their names at this point. I think most people know when someone's saying a name, like I just thought it was very ignorant to me, like the Chinese people and I'm sure some people will say, well, he just doesn't know. But, but still, I just think there was more that could have been done other than like Sied knows they're Korean. And I was gonna say, that's
Kip:true. And I think maybe that shows, even though. This was from 2004, and now we're in 2022. I think it, in a way shows even how much culturally things have become, I think as a, a society we're more sensitive to those types of things now, and, and being more culturally sensitive and aware and just sort of a hundred percent. And I think it's amazing to think that that wasn't that long ago, but yet it's still, there's been so much change since then.
Amanda:but yeah, no, I agree. And there's so many examples of that in pop culture from those times. Absolutely. Just how, you know, incredibly, like even things like I I'm rewatching how I met your mother right now and you know, the character of Barney is so offensive, but you know, back in the day people laughed and they thought it was funny. It went on for nine seasons. Right. And it just, you wouldn't be able to put a character like that on TV now. So it's good to have it change and to accept that. But I also do like to kind of point out, like it's not acceptable.
Kip:I don't. Yeah. And I don't want to. Make it sound like I'm giving the old excuse. Oh, it was a different time. No, not at all. Like you're right. It was wrong. And absolutely he could have been,
Amanda:but 15 years ago, people probably wouldn't even. Batted
Kip:an eyelash now. Exactly. So I like how Claire says calls herself a, a time bomb of responsibility. I mean, it's, that was, it's sad, but it's also like it's setting the stage because you start thinking about that. Like, holy shit. Yeah. She's gonna have a baby on the island.
Amanda:And what if, and like, I don't think when she says people won't look her in the eye and things like that, I'm like, you know, it's, she would be, that would be so terrifying at this point. She it's been six days. I know they're still holding out some hope, but it's, it's it's at the back of your mind now. Mm-hmm mm-hmm and so she's gotta be thinking, I might give birth to this baby on this island. And what, if anything goes wrong, you have Jack, right? Okay. Well, he has no supplies.
Theresa:I don't know. I mean, I mean, he managed to keep that bleeding guy alive for right
Kip:you way too long. Oh, that guy, I thought you meant the guy. Oh, like guy, like I thought you always bring up
Theresa:because what happened to him? I'm just saying he's
Amanda:using Locke's wheelchair mouth. That's right.
Theresa:I'm pretty sure he died. Probably. We're not talking about it.
Amanda:but yeah, it's, it's, it's unfortunate cuz she's probably right. Like people are probably kind of giving her the side eye and steering clear of her, but she's probably terrified. Absolutely. So it's nice that she has Kate and, and it's nice that she has Charlie. Yeah. Their interactions are really cute.
Theresa:Yeah. And like she's keeping a pretty positive for someone who mm-hmm you exactly. As you said, like she could, she was what? Eight months pregnant when she got on that flight, like
Amanda:yeah. Mm-hmm but she should not have been flying probably across, across. cross. And what the, what else? Pacific. Pacific. I know it's the
Kip:Pacific. I think they crossed the Indian at some. Oh, wait, wait., I've made that someone like twice, three times. And I,
Amanda:I was gonna say you've been to Australia three times, which is probably more than any other human on this planet from this city. Uh, oh,
Kip:from this city I
Amanda:actually, no, you've done it twice. I've only done it twice.
Kip:Okay. But, um, what was me? The Pacific
Amanda:ocean. So I was just saying that's probably not safe for these exact concerns, right? Totally. That she could get stranded somewhere. Aren't you
Theresa:just not supposed to fly at all in your third country? Yeah. You know what I mean? I think it's for that reason,
Kip:is it for the reason that the plane crashes on the stranded island hundred percent,
Amanda:that's the only reason actually, prior to 2004, they didn't even suggest that , those are medical facts for me. Thanks LUT. Uh, no, I just mean in general, I think the idea that you could get something could go wrong in the air. Yeah. And you would have no. right. Like no one wants to be having someone giving birth at, you know, 30,000.
Kip:Oh. So, um, I would not be I'm. I, I would not be stepping up to help. I'm just gonna put
Amanda:out now, like in that situation or any of these scenarios,
Kip:specifically that situation, but the more I think about it, the more I would be on the,
Amanda:the more, I think I would be extra number six on the island and not Jack. Exactly.
Kip:I'd be
Theresa:leg guy. No, you're not gonna be, you're not gonna be leg guy. I'm not sure. I believe that. You're you wouldn't try to be Jack.
Kip:She'd try
Theresa:yeah. You know, you'd be Boone no,
Amanda:that's horrible. I would not be Boone. I would be at least Charlie
Kip:I don't swim
Amanda:I don't swim. Um, no, anyway, okay. But yeah, so those are cute interactions and Claires not doing well. And Jack's gone ho and jungle chasing his dead father.
Kip:Yeah. Right. And like, so Swearer, no, not
Amanda:Swearer. So fir, but first we didn't talk fully about that scene with, with son and Jim. Cause I think it's important to really highlight that because yeah. SAS being a fucking prick
Theresa:mm-hmm mm-hmm
Amanda:absolutely. Yeah. The whole like waving in their face and, and caving. Like she doesn't understand. She's like, oh, he, she understands me. I'm like
Theresa:what? Yeah.
Kip:But also we know
Theresa:that she does, we don't know yet.
Kip:We have an inkling that there
Theresa:is exhibition. There does, because when. Walt.
Amanda:She smiles at something
Theresa:that, uh, when Walt's like, what is that? And then she's like, it's, you know, you rub it on your teeth or whatever. Like, what is that? What the size, it's not, that's
Kip:not a question. And also like, just sort of like under understanding that she has to look after
Theresa:Walt. Yeah. Because the, the gestures that he's doing are not that
Amanda:helpful. No. And there's something else. There's some sort of interaction she has where she kind smiles. It's something, her laughs it's something. And I'm like, she knows like, yeah. And they kind of see that Jen is, I mean, like I don't disagree with sight that there's some things that you can like intimate to, like people, but I don't know that that was like, C's just getting super aggressive.
Kip:Yeah. Which is so weird for him outta
Theresa:character. I don't know. I feel like if I had, if I like, I have a bottle of water right now, if I just wave this in someone's face, like they wouldn't, I don't know that you would get, who did you get this from? Well, did though, you know what I mean? We know gin doesn't. Well, maybe he understands a handful of words in English. I don't know. But like if I just went up to you and just, would you know that I'm saying, whoa, did
Amanda:you pick from, well, as you're screaming at me and pointing around maybe, or maybe I just pointed it, sorry to get you outta my face.
Theresa:I mean, I probably would personally I'd be like
Amanda:this guy. Yeah. But again, it becomes, it's funny cuz when SA realizes that Sawyer gave gin and send the water, he backs off a bit cuz he's like, you know, you know, um, rat will always lead you to his hole and they're all expecting it to kind of be Sawyer anyway. Yeah. Right. They,
Kip:they believe they believe it to be true. What I found kind of ridiculous. Was Kate tackle of Sawyer in the Bush. What was she trying to? What was she thinking she would accomplish by tackling him? Uh, what's the plan,
Theresa:Kate? Yeah, no plan, probably something similar to the lion king. Where, uh, when Nala tackles Simba, then they like, they pin each other down, probably something like that. Like, I feel like Kate is, um, so specific a bit of a SLU back home. oh, wow. I'm just saying like that. You're right. Like why would you tackle someone like that also? Why didn't say you just do
Amanda:it. I was gonna say that's what I don't understand. I'm just
Theresa:saying, you know, like, that's weird. You just wanted to Mount him. I get it. He's hot, but come on. Yeah, that's probably it.
Amanda:So, and they inevitably realize that he does not have the water. He doesn't care about the water he'd rather eat, which is probably smart. I don't know how much it rains there, but they're right next to the ocean. The water cycle should be pretty short. You
Kip:did say, I mean, it's funny to hear him say I'm an optimist and I mean, he's smart, right? Like it will rain at some point.
Amanda:Yeah. Rain will come more naturally for them than fishing or hunting. Mm-hmm , he's smart or boil some water. I don't know if they have a way to do
Theresa:that. They seem to have cups lower that are metal. They have air, you know, you could, you could, you have fire apparently indefinitely, surely someone, you could put it, something you could like rig it onto a stick and then just hold it there until it boils and then cool it down later. So can I
Kip:just say speaking of water, didn't lock, just look so happy collecting that water from that leaf. Yes. Like he looks so at
Amanda:peace. Well, we're not there yet. Cause we haven't but yes. Yeah. Cause we haven't gotten to the Jack of it all, but oh yeah. Mm-hmm but I agree. He does look very happy. So he's essentially, he he's when they're all going to that kind of storyline though, when they're all freaking out about the water and kind of having their little, um, gathering mm-hmm Locke makes a decision to go look for Jack mm-hmm and Jack is in the middle of the jungle in like a crazy like hunt for, is he father is looking for Jack or is he looking for water? Well, I think kind of both. Yeah. Like water Jack.
Kip:See, I mean, he seems to find Jack fairly quick. So he was probably following his trail, probably hunting him. Mm-hmm I don't know if
Theresa:hunting
Amanda:is the word. So, you know, Jack's crazed obsession with finding his father and some sort of weird exhaustion and delirium leads him to fall down the cliff, a cliff for ravine, whatever you wanna call it. And he is dangling for dear life. And then lo and behold lock saves him.
Kip:Like the hand comes over very dramatically. It was dramatic and maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it looked like they set the light up to sort of halo around lock's head seemed very angelic. Like he's his savior mm-hmm yeah.
Theresa:Grabbed my end in like a hero way. And his eyes looked like magical. Somehow. It was very. for the first time. I didn't find Locke as creepy, like, oh, he was
Kip:not creepy in this episode at all. Yeah, no, he was actually quite insightful. Yeah. And useful mm-hmm um, and yeah, so he pulls him up and then Jack lays on his arm awkwardly for, he starts laughing, get too long,
Theresa:starts
Amanda:laughing and it does lead to a beautiful conversation with them though. Mm-hmm but it does leads to the most ridiculous moment of this episode for me and possibly one of the most ridiculous moments with Jack when he is like, looks at this, he's like, I wrote it down to recreate it, but it's so ridiculous. He's just like,
Theresa:it's a recreation. I wish we had,
Amanda:um, video for you guys when Jack asks lock, how are they? He's the others? Like he's been gone 30 years. Yeah. It's been about two hours even gone. 45 minutes, Jack. They're fine.
Kip:That's so true. He's like,
Amanda:how are they? like is like voices shaking. Like he's asking about his long lost children, drama
Kip:queen, like
Theresa:Jack bit of a drama Lama. No kidding.
Kip:They're fine. That's funny. Hey, not a, not according to lock thirsty. Yeah.
Amanda:Well searching.
Theresa:I kind wish someone had, I kinda wish Wal had Cod had been like pregnant lady fell.
Amanda:pregnant lady fall down. Yeah. Jack they've fell. Fallen apart without you. The water's missing pregnant. Ladies are falling down.
Theresa:She's falling and you can't get up.
Amanda:Yeah. But it's no, that's, that's, that's made me laugh so much, but it just, I mean, all joking aside it's to show that he does care and he is worried about them and he wants to help them, but he is just having this internal struggle with like, I can't help because I don't have what it takes to make the tough decisions.
Kip:And I think that that dialogue between them two did sort of answer some of our. Critiques about Jack in the sense of, he has extreme self doubt, which you can see brought on probably by his upbringing for all the times where it's like Jack, you were running to the rescue, but then you weren't away at the same time. You know, he's, he's very conflicted about it and there's reasons behind it. It's not just that he's, you know, he doesn't know what he wants. I mean, I guess that is what it is at the end of the day.
Amanda:Well, I think it's very clear that Jack's issue with being in and, you know, I've given him a hard time with it back and forth these last five episodes, because I've always kind of called him like a reluctant hero mm-hmm and I still believe that to be true. I do think that this episode shines some light on why. Yeah. Mm-hmm um, and I, it has nothing, and I think it was always clear from the beginning. It, it wasn't because he didn't wanna help or he was a selfish person. He's clearly a selfless guy. He wants to do the right thing. And there's something holding him back to some degree. Yeah. Mm-hmm and that's clearly his father in his ear kind of saying like, you can't help everyone. Yeah. And if you can't be okay with not being able to help everyone, you're not, you can't, you're not cut out for this. Yeah. And he, he clearly can't, he's not okay with not being able to help everyone.
Kip:No, exactly. It's a big struggle for him.
Amanda:And so I think sometimes his, his solution to that is if I can't help anyone, everyone, I'm not gonna help anyone
Kip:one extreme to the other. Mm-hmm I liked Locke's um, description of the island.
Amanda:Oh, well, Rory did insist that we talk about that, right?
Kip:Yeah. And so he is referencing last episode where we see, we don't see the monster, but we do see the monster approach Locke and they have the stare down. And so he describes it now saying he looked into the heart of the. And what I saw was beautiful. Yeah. Onto the eyes. No, the eyes of the island or the heart
Amanda:of the, I wrote it down and yeah, he said I've looked into the eye of the island and what I saw was beautiful. Beautiful.
Kip:Yeah, exactly. Fill me in because after lock and Jack's interaction, Jack stays behind cuz lock tells him a leader can't lead until he finds what he's looking for. Leader can't lead
Theresa:until they know where they're going until they know where
Amanda:they're going again with the lock isms and his little like luck is very inspiring. You can be. So he leaves Jack there to do whatever it is Jack has to do. And we see a few more flashbacks in this time of essentially his father has gone missing. So this is now adult Jack. And we're starting to kind of, I think get the feeling that this is closer to time obviously to where we are now. And he's has another horrible parent. I was gonna say she is awful. The most manipulative mother. Yeah.
Theresa:Why don't you go get him, go get your husband. Why you sending your son come
Amanda:on. And there's clearly some sort of, there's been some sort of falling up, falling out with Jack and his dad mm-hmm and his mom blames him for it. So he, she guilts and manipulates him into going to find him. And we find out that where he is is Australia mm-hmm mm-hmm and then the next flashback, which again, we're kind of jumping around, but just to kind of put into pieces is we see Jack in Australia looking for his dad. Yeah. And he's clearly on some sort of bender or some sort of
Kip:bottles of booze and drugs everywhere mm-hmm and the hotel manager is not, has not been impressed with right. With him.
Amanda:And so that's clearly what Jack's been up to, and this is kind of spliced throughout his journey to finding his dad in the jungle mm-hmm mm-hmm so Jack's just kind of in the jungle jungle, still kind of chasing this. It's kind of while that's happening that we realize in the last couple flashbacks that his dad is dead mm-hmm . Yeah. And he, and this is what has brought him on the plane that leads him to the island mm-hmm and it leads to Kips favorite scene in the whole episode where he is just giving it to Chrissy. Chrissy,
Kip:poor Chrissy. She was just doing her job. I didn't, you know, like he could have, of course as a character could have handled that so much differently, but I feel like it could have been written better too. Like his reasoning is so selfish to try and get around transportation regulations. Mm-hmm I need this to be done. Okay. But the airline doesn't give a. I mean, I guess they do because they let him do it. But like, it just felt like that was such a, a, an, I don't think it was an engaging way to show Jack's way of dealing with this emotionally.
Amanda:Well, and the reality is he clearly isn't right? Yeah. Because you know, whatever you wanna believe about whether or not, you know, his dad is real or his dad is his hallucinate, cuz at this point, I think we're supposed to believe that he's hallucinating his father because he's tired. He's worried, he's overworked, he's stressed, dehydrated, dehydrated. Mm-hmm just survived a plane crash. So his dad is appearing to him and, and part of that would be because he clearly didn't deal with it. His yeah, whatever happened between them, which you do, don't worry. Those who are wor wondering you do eventually know what happens. Led to them not speaking. And then him never being able to get closure with
Kip:that. No, he's never been able to reconcile with his father and, and I mean, yeah, you see it coming out of him as he's searching for his father. He's not necessarily searching for his father. He's searching for that closure. And which leads him to the cave.
Theresa:Mm-hmm,
Amanda:water and water
Kip:and lo and behold, a fresh, a source of fresh water and ful and fucking creepy dolls
Amanda:and a
Kip:coffin, uh, coffin D
Theresa:which he proceeds to destroy. Well, he opens it and it's empty, which is terrifying.
Kip:Yeah. It's empty. So, I mean, that's pretty shocking moment because now what do we believe?
Amanda:Well, I mean, I think at that point, what Jack believes is that, you know, he was searching for the body because, you know, maybe something or someone was trying to tell him where it was, you know, to be able to get that closure and have the body and. Be able to find it. Yeah. And it's gone. And in that moment, I think he's thinking, of course it is. Yeah. And so he has his little cathartic freak out. Yeah.
Kip:Which echoes through the jungle. Mm-hmm in the night, I thought that's a weird scene. I thought they were gonna show it like on the beach and be like, what the
Amanda:fuck's that? Or like someone being there saying, or the
Theresa:smoke monster being like I'm coming because
Kip:did we forget? Yeah, that's right. We must have.
Amanda:So at the end of the day, whether or not what everyone believe about what brought him there? He, or why he has found them water.
Kip:Yeah. Mm-hmm and few questions about that. Like, I honestly don't remember if we find out about the dolls. I don't know either. I
Theresa:don't. I feel like we do, but I don't comment below
Amanda:if we, yeah. Do we ever
Theresa:find out about the dolls? I don't remember. Oh, you know what it's because I think I'm mixing up two different
Kip:things. And at first I thought this was a different plane crash. Mm-hmm but then how would the coffin get there?
Amanda:So while this is all happening, they do discover. um, because someone brings Claire, Claire more water, and that person is Boone Boone. So they realize it's Boone, who is the one who stole the water and in the middle of everyone, essentially getting their pitch forks out mm-hmm
Kip:did anyone else find it weird that Boone was like almost blaming Jack mm-hmm right. Cause he's like Jack just left
Theresa:and he was just sitting there. Yeah. Oh, well, if thanks are just sitting there and you had just take it,
Kip:but also like, was this some sort of weird rebellious act against Jack for like running away from his little talk?
Theresa:Yeah. Yeah. Again, Boone has, is trying to quote unquote do the right thing and then like really fucked it up. That is
Amanda:really the, yeah. What happens, parts of it. He he's just, and I don't know if it's cuz he is young or he's inexperienced or he is, you know, we're gonna see later on. Then he came from quite a privileged kind of world mm-hmm but he just never quite gets it. Right. But his heart is in the right place.
Theresa:Exactly. How's his business doing is, is what I'm wondering cuz uh,
Amanda:And while that's happening, Jack shows up and essentially puts an end to it. And it's, it leads to the best. And probably one of the most famous little monologues from our dear friend, Jack, she, if we
Kip:don't live together, we're gonna die alone.
Theresa:That was really good. That was really good.
Amanda:But I did like that he defended Boone and kind of said, you know, like whatever is happening here. This guy tried to save someone's life this morning and now you're ripping him apart. I love that. Yeah, I did too.
Kip:I did. And I mean, it, it sort of solidified like at this moment, you're thinking, okay, Jack has arrived. He's the hero. We all kind of thought he was. And maybe this is him coming into his heroism leader moment. And also Claire, not clear. Um, Kate's look at Jack is kind of just like, mm that's mom. I am like, kind of just like, I know.
Theresa:Yeah,
Amanda:she's obsessed. I know.
Kip:And I hate it. And then, so like, you know, you get this little montage and Boone's sitting there all, they love a montage. Oh, they love montages. Boone's sitting there all Suly and Sawyer says something about how it sucks to be in my place as the most hated person. How does it feel to be yeah. and I was like, so if you think it sucks, why do you constantly do things that piss people off? Exactly.
Amanda:The little montage does lead to a very cute moment though, where we see Michael, give Vincent some water. Oh
Theresa:yeah. Good job. Didn't wanna give him the salty one because I mean, also you can't yell at a dog. The dog doesn't
Amanda:understand English, but I thought that was very sweet. Yeah. You know, a lot of people might say like, we have very little of this. We're not giving some to the dog, but the dog deserves it Vincent's the best. But in that little speech prior to the montage, we see that Jack has told him about the caves. They're gonna go get water. And that whole speech is great because he defends Boone. And he says like, we have to get we're, you know, we're here and we have to get this together. And some people can come get water with me. And if you don't want to, that's fine. But find a way to contribute.
Kip:And he, he outright says like, help may not come. Yeah. And it's time we start accepting that, which is it had to be said. Yeah, and everyone was thinking it, but it had to be said out loud to sort of come to terms with it.
Amanda:All right. So I think we've come to that time of the podcast that everyone is always interested to hear. I know I am. I know I am always fascinated to any glimpse into the inner workings of her mind is a gift. All right. Uh, it's time for Theresa's random thoughts. Okay. Extreme of consciousness. Um,
Theresa:I have to fill in some of the, uh, random thoughts because it starts my notes literally start out with right rabbit. Oh, I called it, um, oh God. Solo swimming is so dangerous. Also look at that back though. I just could not. Save some without goggles also Boone where's the woman. Oh no, that's tough. So does no one else swim also that stamina though? Boone your eyes are stunning. Okay. Day six. Jack real talk. You would've likely died. Had you gone to say, oh, not this again. Go away. I actually even wrote Gollum voice. Um, okay, so sun is named, but is this the first time don't know? Um, I would straight up look Michael in the eye and swallow it and buy it. I mean water. What a Dick like be patient? Um, the shit you're going through, so is waled, but at a young age and just after losing his mother light sticks. Shannon, come on Claire. Okay. Yes. How yet? How are you all not living with matted hair right now? It's been six days with no hair brush. um, also Claire is so sweet also as a Gemini. Am I like Kate, Amanda care do chime in. She's not gonna chime in because I'll probably get mad. Also. Did we not use tarps to gather water Is that not what Saed said? Okay, Jack, we all make decisions. And just because the last one you made someone died, it's not your fault. Just like the water thing isn't either, but at this point you need to choose either entirely step up or ask for help. You can't have it both ways also does Jack have brown eyes and why don't I remember Ew. That's spit line though. Excuse me. What it takes to what? Be a hero or to be okay with our failures. Oh, nevermind. They are brown. Also. What a Dick dad, again, Boone. Now you feel guilty. I ran a business, whole gay kid, but also Boone. You don't get to do this because you just, because you also went to Jack on what to do sometimes also. Hell no daddy knew. Can you not bring your own husband back? Ma'am excuse me, Jack. Your parents are not nice. Sorry. I'm just turning a page here. Um, everyone can say they can can say they can't. So why can't you? Hmm. Rude parents. This is a grown ass man. He can do what he wants are we to assume that in the absence of Jack, we will go to Kate for help. Like they need more problems. Okay. So it goes Jack then Kate and then side and lock are kind of tie, but then lock is gonna go because they need Kate and Sied more. Okay. But, um, Lock, you know, hunts. Um, but also Locke. How do you know where the fresh water is? Turns out leaves um, Jack, there is a monster out there. Let's not start yelling. Also. This is a nice place. I'd feel like I'd wanna stay in that hotel. Oh. But his dad is actually missing. He's not just gone. Okay. Shit. Um, this is why we don't run in a random jungle. You've fallen and all it's lock. Okay. Well, I would, uh, I think I need to work out. I would never be able to pull someone up also is everything okay, Jack? What's so funny because actually what was so funny? Um, okay. But why is Claire so rational with everything also? Nice tattoo, Charlie? How, if I never noticed it, living is easy with the, with eyes closed, Claire and Charlie. You're key. The Chinese people. Aren't they? Korean. Why is everyone so fucking hostile? Like ask nicely sight. Jack. It hasn't been that long. It's only been a few hours, but okay. These two also, John, the water on the leaves, I think I love you. but also, John, there's a communist to you right now that makes me wanna grab a beer with you and tell you all my problems. Isn't most of what happens for a reason though, the eye of the island is Lara another wisdom on by Mr. John lock folks. But hold up, how did Jack start a fire? Oh no. Oh Jack. I'm so sorry. It's gonna be okay, but oh my God, what was that? Did it sound like bottles? Also? This island has such nice trails water, water. Oh. Oh, this is amazing. Oh, wait. No, the doll. Hell no. Don't, don't go in there. And there are more dolls. I think this place is cursed. Um, okay, well this is, uh, the slow down version of the song is haunting and be. and, uh, tike a casket yell. That's a casket Jack. Calm down. Oh, Hey Jen, wait, are your eyes blue now, Jack, are you wearing contacts? I need it to be done. I need it to be over. And now it's dragged on. Actually, that's quite sad needing and wanting something only to have it taken away and then be haunted by it forever. Also, that thing is empty. I mean, I get it, but you know, if you find the body later, where are you gonna put it? If you destroyed that thing, maybe wake someone up gently before putting water in their mouth. Bo, come on. This is not how leadership goes. A leader leads an asshole does whatever the fuck they want in the moment. And in the, and in the name of leadership. Well, Jack, I get it, you know, you're right. But also he did steal the honors. So I think it's okay to be mad. Ah, quite the speech live together, die alone. I guess I'll go with you Jack. Oh the song again. Wow. Michael, I think you actually got a positive point for once because yes, Vincent is also thirsty, uh, Sawyer. I wouldn't say he's hated, but uh, they're definitely not sure about him anymore. Oh, Jack girl. She won't him. Oh, wait. He said his dad dying. Hold that'll settle her bone ear. sorry, Kate. The
Amanda:end. Nice. Very well done.
Kip:Okay. That's usual. What was so funny though?
Theresa:I don't know. Also one thing that I did not read is why did we not have. Translations for sun engine in this episode,
Kip:because we were supposed to be like Kate and Sawyer, not understanding that's too hard in the moment. It's
Theresa:too hard.
Amanda:Um, you did raise a couple interesting points in Don ways, but, uh, I've already forgotten them. So that's awful. Um, no, I meant like what I was gonna add, why
Theresa:Jack was laughing. Unsure.
Amanda:No. And, and like the, the end part too, where like, she just like, he's like my dad, dad. that was weird. And she's like, I'm sorry. um, I'm sorry
Theresa:to,
Amanda:I'm sorry. Three. I'm like, what is happening? It was
Theresa:just very like, I, what an awkward thing to say.
Amanda:Well, it said that he's grieving during this time. Yeah. I'll
Kip:give you that. Yeah, because he just found out his dad died. He's gotta say to someone Kate's life. I
Theresa:mean, there's a, yeah, I know. And it, but it's just one of those things where like, as the, obviously like we're, we're being led to believe that events that they're gonna be together. Like, is this how you would tell someone your feelings about something? And I get that, like, you know, he had just found, like he had been following his dad, he found the like casket and all that stuff. It's just, it kind of seems like for the most part, when he says stuff, he's, it's either out of passion or he's like trying to be very diplomatic a hundred percent. And this one just kind of came outta left effort where he was like, my dad died.
Kip:Well, maybe that's because it was out of left field
Amanda:for him. Yeah. I think he's just trying to put it into words to kinda, you know, and that might be a big part. Like at this point, it's very clear that whatever is going on, Jack thinks that it was a hallucination. Yeah. So I think he's trying to address kind of the underlying concerns, which part of it is probably that he hasn't really been dealing
Kip:with it and saying it out loud. My dad. It helps probably put his mind at ease end. There's not some zombie dad walking around the island. I mean,
Amanda:yeah, but like on like low key, how angry do you think his mom is? That he's lost on an island or possibly dead versus just that the corpse didn't come back. Oh, she wanted that corpse. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, a hundred percent for sure. Like, she's probably like, oh great. Another thing Jack screwed up. Yeah, exactly. She's a bitch. That family is out of control.
Theresa:It is. And like, yeah, no she's mean again. Why can't you get your husband? I think
Kip:Jack was laughing.
Theresa:yep.
Amanda:Sorry. He sure was.
Theresa:He was, was it because John was tickling him,
Amanda:dude. That's what I was having in real life. Maybe, maybe that's what got, uh, Matthew Fox to laugh with Terri Quinn tickling, by the way. That's how I'm remembering it. I think he was just
Kip:laughing because he's probably in his mind thinking how ridiculous it is. He just fell off cliff chasing a hallucination of his dead father.
Theresa:and then has his, and has been saved pseudo island, father come and pick him up.
Kip:I also think Boone sees Jack as his pseudo island father. Yeah. So much
Theresa:parenting issues or pseudo island. Big brother. It's hard to say. Yeah, because like Boone is, I mean, he just keeps trying, he keeps failing. All right. Well, after that, um, stellar stream of consciousness, I'm gonna go into my rankings where for the first time, we'll see Michael get positive points, but still not go up in the rankings. oh,
Kip:I'd like to see how that math works.
Theresa:So, um, I think in a surprise to nobody, Michael is number 14 with negative 750 points because Michael sucks. Next is, um, Shannon minus 700 Kate minus two 50 Boone, minus one 20 lock. Minus 66. I don't know how that happened. And then Walt minus 40, uh, we, and then we have gin and Sawyer tied at minus 30. Son is the first in the positive at number six, with 55 side 65 H 85 Charlie, 1 0 5 Jack, 1 55. And then Claire's at the top with 300. Wow. Yeah,
Kip:Jack making a little bit of a comeback. There
Theresa:he is. It's very interesting. How, like, I don't, I, I can never decide how I feel about him.
Kip:He does go back and
Theresa:forth quite a bit. Yeah. Because like, he's fine then he's like, nah. And then he's fine. He's like, nah, I feel like that. That's how he
Kip:goes. Well, now it's time for our co-host Amanda to ask Dan for. Hot take, so take it away.
Amanda:Let's just start out simply. What did you think of episode five white rabbit? I would say
Dan:it's probably my second favorite episode so far. Not that any of them have been over the top incredible like hook TV. Right. And I was explaining this to Kip it's cuz he's, he's been telling me, I don't think you're getting into this show. You don't have to watch it. And I've said to him, you have to remember that this is only like episode what, six or seven, that it sometimes takes a season to get into shows some really bad acting with the mother. And I felt like they were trying to make him seem like a troubled teenager. And then all of a sudden I find out that it was only like a month before or like a few weeks before so that was kind of alarming. I understand. They're trying to add layers of some issues with the father and with the mother into his storyline. But it almost is like, they're trying too hard at this point because he needed his moment to accept this leadership role without asking for it. If he would've just assumed it from RO from the first episode, it would've been more of a dictatorship style. Whereas we find that he's kind of the tortured soul and he's reluctantly able to help because he's a natural leader, but he doesn't necessarily want that position. What
Theresa:did
Amanda:you think about Locke in this episode?
Dan:Once again, I said he's the only one doing anything useful for the most part. He's. Being pretty resourceful. He's out there. He's getting water. He's thinking a lot more practically than some of the other characters, which I can really appreciate though. And he also, you know, obviously gives that encouragement to Jack about wanting to encourage him to be the leader. But, um, I think, I don't know, it's kind of a mixed bag of an episode. The father being on the island starts to really be far fetched. Um, I understand it's probably like, they're really trying to blur the lines between hallucinations and this mystic island, but I don't know. I don't know how I feel about that yet. I don't think that's the dad's coffin. I don't think there was anyone ever in there. I think it might have been someone else. I also was wondering whether his dad even made it on the plane because they, the, uh, ticketing agent at the airport doesn't assure him that she's gonna get the body on the plane. We don't see that. So immediately it came to mind that his dad is probably still in Sydney. I think there obviously is some sort of dimensional. Element coming to this where it's another dimension or a portal to a alternate reality or something like that is, is happening. Okay. This is one of the stronger episodes. You start to see them be a bit more practical. They start to address some of the issues that I feel that they should have been addressing earlier. So that's where I feel that the show gets to be a bit more practical, which it needs that element, cuz people are lost on an island and they're trying to survive. Mm-hmm and I felt that in a lot of the previous episodes, they glazed over that details and maybe they had them, maybe they had to cut it for network television and cut scenes and all that. But I felt that they weren't addressing the actual story at hand, which is people almost shipwrecked on an island and trying to make a go of it.
Amanda:And that leads us towards the end of the show today and our final thoughts on the episode before we rank it. Mm.
Kip:Um, I, I, I really liked the episode. I know I'm getting get an eye roll. No, cause it is a Jack episode, but I think it just further cemented the mythology and, and how we don't know what's going on. It, it was creepy, which was neat. Like, I, I, I think it just gave us a new side to the island and to the show without taking away from the characters and, and sort of building them, continuing to build these characters.
Amanda:And so based on that, what would you rank it outta 10
Kip:0 9 0.8?
Amanda:Well, I also like the episode. I also love Jack as much as we make fun of you for it. I also love Jack. Jack is for sure. In my top three characters, top five characters. top seven characters. Uh, no real real talk. He's in for sure. Top like five to 10. Um, I love him. He's a good guy. I think that we get a lot of insight into why he is the way he is. I think his dad's a Dick. Yeah. I have questions about, you know, what is actually going on now? Uh, I like that this episode introduces kind of another, almost like sub genre to this show. We get a little bit more of. Like mystery creepiness. Um, and I just think it shows you that you have no idea what you're getting into every week. And I love that and I like the flashbacks, so I would give it 9.5 outta 10. Wow.
Theresa:GE geez, you guys rated really high. I like this episode. Um, um, I liked it for obviously similar reasons. Like it just had a different feel. Um, I like that we are like, the creepiness was not coming from John for the first time. Um, it's actually just coming from what's going on. Um, I like that we're really cementing that nothing is really black and white and we don't really know, um, what's going on and we. You know, as much as you know, Amanda's been judging Jack since the beginning for, you know, flip flopping and whatever, you know, there is a reason why we are the way that we are. There is a reason why we are the way that we are. And some of it is our, you know, innate nature. And some of it is, uh, the environment that we were raised in. And sometimes those two things, you know, fight each other. Um, I'm gonna give this one a 9.4. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. It didn't quite hit the 10 mark for me. Um, but. Really really good episode. Really a big part. I think of the show is, um, you know, even if we go back and talk about, you know, the blank slate and get people getting to, you know, start over, like, it's clear that as much as, yes, it's quote unquote, starting over, you can't run away from who you are and what, you know, what's happened in your past could because whatever happened still
Amanda:happened. And that's exactly, it is another thing about this is that this episode does show you kind of some of those big themes. And I would agree that one of the big themes is you are who you are, and it's easier to embrace that than to run from it. Mm-hmm um, so yeah. Great, great. Um, and those, those of you wondering if we'll ever rate anything below nine, I can guarantee you, we will so hundred percent keep listening. Will
Theresa:I? That is the different question. I think I did already did you?
Amanda:I dunno, but again, it's because we love it and we do
Kip:love to show so much. We like to just sort of shit on certain things, because we've seen it so many times and, and. It's we just love talking about it. So it's just fun to, to pick apart some silly things about it, but please, um, love it with us. Yeah.
Theresa:Also we are who we are. So, I mean, I have daddy issues, so I hate Michael. Amanda hates Kate flopping, so she hates Kate. She hates, she loves but hates Jack. You know, when Kipper loves Jack, Amanda: that's who he is. That's who I
Amanda:see. You'll see next.
Theresa:Thanks
Amanda:for tuning into another episode of let's get lost.
Theresa:Be
Amanda:sure to tune in next week, wherever you listen to your podcasts. And please follow us on Instagram and Twitter at let's get lost dot pod links to our website and P can be found in those profiles. Join our Patreon for only $3 a month for exclusive access and content like spoiler island. Be sure to get lost with us again next time. Bye.