We're three best friends and we love lost and we love talking, but even more so we love talking about lost. So join us for some laughs good conversation and let's get lost together. Right, everybody. Welcome back to let's get lost with your favorite oceanic trio. You have me Teresa AKA blank, blank numbers. And then we have Kip Jack lover, 92. And. I mean the star of this week's episode, I'm sure. Kate hate 88. Amanda, Kate hate 88, Kate 8 88. Yeah. I don't wanna make any, uh, promises or, or say anything. I have a very neutral feelings on this episode. I'm sure we'll all discover. Okay. Before we get to that, what happened with your. Name? Did you decide on one? No, I put up a poll and then nothing came of it. so I'm gonna re-put up the poll. Okay. Everybody, please go to our social media page, the Facebook page, the Instagram page, or where are you posting it? Uh, it's gonna be on Instagram and you know what I remember what happened actually. It's that Amanda made fun of me saying that my things were too fancy and then I got discouraged and decided, well, you know what? I guess I just will be nameless. Or you could just make them less fancy. They're not that fancy. They were full of puns. They were a little pun. Yeah, exactly. I thought it was cute. Well, we just Kate hate and Jack lover. That's the issue I had was why do you get these like fascinating ones you had literally months to think about this? Yeah, we made ours on the fly. Okay. But first of all, you guys just came up with it. Like, I wasn't sure who my favorite or non I was gonna say okay. Well, okay. Well, before we get to the episode today, uh, last week we got so excited by the cliff hanger and all the excitement around Claire that we forgot a very important milestone. Last week was our 10th episode of the podcast. Wow. Pew. You are everybody so yay. Thank you everyone so much. Who's listened to the first 10 episodes. It's been so much fun doing this with our friends and, and sharing with all of our friends, family, and, and some new fans. So thank you so much for listening. Keep listening. We, we promise to always keep trying to entertain and make it better. So if you guys have any suggestions on how we could do so, please contact us at our social media on Instagram, Facebook. Um, we love interacting with listeners. Um, but yeah, so keep listening and we'll get right into this week's episode. Number 12, which is called whatever the case may be written by Damon Lindoff and Jennifer Johnson and directed by KIPP's favorite Jack Bender. Woo enlisting, Shannon to help translate the papers he stole from the French woman Sayid makes a startling discovery. Meanwhile, Kate and Sawyer find a briefcase in wreckage merged in a hidden lagoon and by themselves pitted against each other. When it becomes clear the contents of the case, hold vital information about Kate's past. We always do this. Like we read this synopsis and then we, we give these looks around the table. Like what, because this is literally the, there are only two ways that these are written. They either give everything away or absolutely nothing. Well, cuz like I'm like what horrifying secret did Sayid find out? And that's what I'm saying. Vital information about Kate's past. No, that was not vital. Um, so we go from that, but in episode 10, we find out that it leads to an unnerving conclusion about passenger named Ethan wrong. yeah, exactly. Literally give away, like, so yeah, those, the products aren't great. And I think they are the same that's on like social, like, um, streaming services. Yeah. And so for those who are watching it for the first time, I'm sure when you go to pop it on, you read, I guess if you're watching it for the first time, you don't really understand what some of those things, but it's kind of funny. It is funny. Um, Yeah. So that's the episode. It is a Kate centric episode. Let's just get the elephant in the room out of the way. No, I don't find her endearing at all in this episode. Um, and I dare those to defend her after this one. Well, can I, can I say before we get into too many things, like I actually, no, I'll, I'll leave you, you know what, I actually, I know where you're going with this. I think, and to be fair, I was being a little bit dramatic. Um, I actually do feel for her in some parts of the episode, so yeah. So when we get into the discussion, yeah. There's some, there'll be lots. I think, I think keep listening. I think you'll be surprised. Talk about a cliff hanger. I feel like not as surprised as she thinks we're gonna be okay. So whatever the case may be are, are standard facts about it. This one has so far, I think like one of the highest viewers of the season, 21.5, 9 million people. Ooh. So last week, which was, um, where Kate got abducted. Okay. No, not Kate. Sorry. Claire got abducted, really left people wanting. And then they had this. Yeah. It'd be interesting to see what the viewership is next week, but then IMDB, one of the lowest ratings of the season 7.9 outta 10. Ooh. Yes. Yeah. Well, you know, probably because people were like, I can't wait to find out what happened with Claire. Yes. And then they come and they get some like very filler type. It did feel very filler. Yeah. Yeah. It nothing really moved forward that much like, and the whole tide thing on the beach. Yeah. We'll, we'll get into it, but yeah. Filler is a good word for it. Yeah. Days 21 to 22 on the island. That's crazy. It's almost been a month. Yeah. Like three weeks already. That's nuts. Okay. You guys ready for some trivia? No. Yes. I, I took a lot of time to prepare these trivia questions. like, I know you did so prepared to be stuck. How many years? According to Shannon has Russo. Being on the island. Oh, she does make like a little snippy comment. She does like a million years or something. You didn't make a sound. well, no, I'm just thinking like, I'm my thoughts process. I think we need to make sure we're always following the rules appropriately here. I don't think you understand how jeopardy works. Sorry. What is that's? I think we're all used to my I'm just having a stream of consciousness. Okay. Continues. That's just it. I don't think we know. Okay. 16. She actually says the number mm-hmm . Why? Why did we assume you're like, oh my God. She's not a crazy bitch. well, I'm she says something cause I was snippy. I actually love Shannon in this episode. Yeah, me too. Okay. Well, way to trick us and make us like Gaslight us into being jerks. That's a question. Yeah. She was gonna be like, she's just been here, like on million yards. and then let's turn to 16. The accurate number. What number? Is the safety deposit. I'm like, wow. Wow. Okay. I really wanted to beat Amanda. I don't, the answer is so eight 15. Yeah. Same as the flight. No, yeah. iStock I was just, I was gonna say 92 for Jack lover, Jack lover, 92. The numbers. Can we? Wow. That's important. Snip that Walt. No, we can't disgusting. And this conversation very guttural. I did not enjoy. Um, wow. Okay. I just feel like we need to like talk about the, I really didn't notice that amazing. I should have known it was so, and that's the thing I've noticed. Anytime, there's a number it's gonna be either one of the numbers or one, probably one of the flight numbers. It seems like they're all connected in that way. Not fair. Okay. Last question is kind of, kinda like a dual question. So. I'm going to read them both before you scream screaming at me. what animated movie is Shannon talking about and what song is she singing? But like the English name didn't know there was an English. Did, did I only know part of it though? I think they're talking about finding Nemo. Yeah. Is it? Well, that's what most people assume. Yeah. Like a Phish movie made by the computers. It's 2004. So finding Nemo, but I don't remember what song plays at the end of finding Nemo, but I don't think, oh yeah. So she does say it is at the end of finding Nemo, but the song she's singing is lame, but in English, it's beyond the sea, somewhere beyond the sea. Oh yeah. That's a key part though. Mm-hmm um, yeah, no different thoughts, different thoughts. You have a nice voice mainly cuz I'm just like an Aqua taco. And I just imagined this like awkward girl that everyone thinks is like dumb and just singing, just singing on the beach to like actually a really nice singing voice. The, the guy who like yelled at her earlier, she's like, and then you can kind of hear it while like Jack is like looking at Kate. I'm like, oh yeah, taco taco. Okay. So I think we tied. Yeah. Today. Fair. It's really important for me to make it clear who wins and least is actually picture you about 0.5. You won one. Yeah. And she got 0.5. Yours was a two part question I said, oh, and she only answered one part. That's true. So Theresa won okay. You're fine. The second time you've done that. Great. I really don't like that. Amazing. Amazing. You really like to strip me a whole choice? No, I don't. I love that you won and that you win frequently. Literally sound more enthused. well, that's the trivia. All right. So. Now it's time for thumb bump recess, stream of consciousness, episode 12, uh, Kate doing what she does best climb. What's you foraging for? Are those apples grab apples also. Why aren't you more scuffed up doing that shit za. Do you think they labeled their water bottles? So there's no germs being passed around. Also, I like the innovation using the airplane seat belt. Wow. Nice name Kate. Hey Sawyer. What a sweetheart, but how'd she get him in the knee? The only place Kate really is that, so that's all big old island. Kate. Okay. Oasis. Yes. Are we gonna move again? Okay. Yes. Yeah, you do deserve to do something good. You go swim. It's interesting. What they decide to remove, to swim his shirt and her pants also. They're so much cuter than Jade also. That's a very nice dive Sawyer. Look at these flirty little kiddos. Oh my God. That's no Buk. No thanks. I don't wanna see that. It's gonna haunt my dreams. Have I been holding my breath this whole time. I'm not okay. Swimming in this water where dead folks are. What's in the CA case. Kate, you seem happy about it. I wonder what would be on me if this happened? No wallet. I don't think my wallet's pretty big. I guess I'd have my gotcha. It's your case. Kate, is it you at hand, Kate? You didn't even do anything to get your own case and oh wow. Sawyer's penis pointers. Sawyer ever observ, you know, Kate, what? Uh, keep going. Okay. Well it's distracting. you know, Kate, now it's gonna look like you wet your pants. Ma'am probably should have just swam with your clothes on just saying, cuz Sawyer's just gonna look wet all over. Kate. You're so bad at this whole trying to convince folks the opposite or whatever you think you're doing. Let me get this case. It's mine. I don't care if you keep it. Uh, so why did you touch dead bodies to get it? Dude. Kate, are you not wearing socks? You're gonna get blisters. I wanna go swimming that water's mint. Uh, oh, storm high time. What's happening. Ah, it is high tide. Nothing is normal about this place. Exactly. Did we forget about the smoke monster also? How did Sayid not know Claire's name at this point? Fran J I guess it's time for Shannon to enter maybe, uh, poor Charlie. Oh, and yep. You're Shannon and Boone. Who's that bald dude in the background. Shannon. Shut up. At least he's doing stuff for this time. You've probably read that magazine a hundred times already. so what's in the case, Kate what's in the case is Ryan her last name? Oh my God. You have bad luck, Kate. Aroni why are there no offices in this bank? The manager is just out in the open also. Is that a typewriter? What year is it Kate? You don't honestly think you're gonna steal it back. I actually laughed out loud. Insane. You're so dumb. Technically Kate you're on top of him. Ah, Sawyer. You and I great minds, but why are we fighting about this? Kate? You gave it up, bro. Technically you gave it to him. He doesn't have to give you anything. See why this didn't make any sense. What was your plan here also? Something's wrong with Shannon's feet? It looks weird. What is this angle? I don't know why, but it looks separate from her body SED. Did you always have that beard? Because it looks good on you also, did you ask all 40 something? People who are still alive, they speak French. I think not. Michael. Nice to see. You've gotten your one line in also. How do you know it's a Halliburton. Harley. What, how does, why does everyone know what his, what a Halliburton is, but me, uh, and now with the advice, good job. See everyone. He does get points sometimes. Wow. Everyone's in this today. What are you guys doing now? Locke. Charlie, maybe help rose with her thinking about Bob rose. Yes, exactly. Yes. Honorary yet again, you know, this montage entertains me to no end Sawyer. Maybe try dropping it from high ground. Oh wow. Sawyer and I are on the same page today, Kate. Seriously? What is happening? You're all on the same island. Isn't he just gonna steal it back from you? What's your plan? Go to the caves, the beach, bury it, open it. Who knows? Honestly, Sawyer seem at this point, I just wanna know what's inside and what the big deal is this back and forth with her is dumb. Also isn't there a button didn't anyone push a button to call the cops, sir. Why didn't you come up with a more solid plan, other than saying she he's gonna take him and then yelling at her to do stuff after the fact? Oh, I should have known sketch bag. Kate is added again. you know, Shannon can't is can't but will not try. And I think that's what's happening also. What is happening here between Sayid and Shannon, and here we go, son again with the awesomeness, but what is that for the headaches, Kate, get outta here. Stop son. What plant is that though? Why do I feel like you're still lying Kate? Like it's not that just the guns. Is it also just break it open? Don't unbury a man yet. You're being a sketchy bitch. And now Jack and I are on the same, same wavelength girl. You are not gonna earth a human for guns. You're a lying liar. Oh, I like this butting friendship between Charlie and rose though. Huh? And finally someone mentions the monster rose. You're just the best and always the wisest. Can we please not unearth this man? This is so terrible. I can't Maggie Ryan. You lying liar. Face where to get your acting skills, Kate, if that is your real name. Yeah, this is not okay. You put that soil back over that man is gross. Ooh bugs. No, no. Y this is gross. No, thank yo. I bet she has the key, Jack. I bet she already took it. Oh my God. Did I write this episode? It's because she's just a lying liar pants. Literally can't trust her at all. Hey, Kate, you wanna end up at the bottom with Michael, keep going with this shit and you'll see Shannon. I'm proud of you for standing up for yourself. He's literally making impossible for you to translate. So why is Sawyer gonna give it to you? Jack. Jack, you're such a douche. You're not very doctorally. All. You're lying. All your lying liar, pants, lady love. And Sawyer's got the nice dims again. And here we go. She always lies always. Or at least this episode, she does Amanda. Um, is this what banks are like money? Just lying around when you go through the vaulty you think, um, why are you telling 'em all that? I mean, what do you mean cleaning up after yourself? What the hell team is this? That you're all pointing guns at each other. This is ridiculous. What the actual hell is happening. What's in this box now. Oh my God. And what's in the plump little green envelope. Okay. At least we have to see what's in this case. All right. We have money, ammo, guns. Why crank Kate? Wait, how is all that stuff? Dry. Oh, the plump envelope. I wanna see show me it's a tiny plane. Is this anti-climactic oh dear. You killed the man. You love was it that douche that you shot in the. Also Kate, why? This is why lying so much is hard because when you tell the truth, no one believes you literally the boy who qu pride Wolf, remember classic tale. I can't even really feel bad for you, honestly. Like I don't know what your story is of why you killed the man. You've loved. You've done a lot of bad things. And on top of that, I've been manipulating and lying left and right. Does anyone know who you are? Do you, but also Jack, you wanna be fair here. You're kind of an entitled little douche right now. Don't help her. Then don't demand answers left and right. Just leave her be and rose again. I cannot, you are the bomb diggity and Charlie, my heart, you pour thing. Oh, Shannon coming in clutch, but sing to him is awkward. Does everyone listening to this? And then+ just staring creepily Everyone can hear it. Faintly yell. Kate, this episode did nothing for you. Why was that in a safety deposit box? The end oh my God. I left you guys speechless. just, well, you did bring up a lot of really good points. Yes. As usual. Yeah. You mean? Yes. That pointers. Well, okay. That was unexpected. I will say I also made a note about how she takes her pants off and he keeps his jeans on. It makes they're both wearing jeans. Like jeans, main jeans is not easy. Maybe he was commando. I think so. Yeah. But why would that bother him? Like he literally walked out naked was like, oh yeah, that's true. She's already seen his dingdong. I mean, there's no reasonable explanation. Yes. Very, very concise. As of, I also thought moon stand there was so creepy. It was so weird. It was very Lish to me. He's been spending, spending too much time with him. So Locke 1 0 1 B creepy. Well, Theresa gave us lots to think about and talk about, but before we get there and before we delve too much into it, we have to hear Dan's hot take to see what it feels like. And sounds like to watch loss for the first time in the year 2022, especially after watching that last episode in coming to this one. Yeah. Let's see why this got a 7.9 from viewers back then. Welcome Dan. The opening shot of this Kate centric episode, I had to laugh that she, once again, is working and immediately as I'm sure people have figured out, I've started to take notes as I'm watching the episodes, just to help with my help, with my hot takes. And I think that's now the second or third time I've written that that Kate is always working sticks, bananas, rocks. She's always moving something. She's always doing something so credit where credit is due. Now when they're swimming in the pond. Okay. This was a big, how would I say it? Not point of contention, but an unbelievable. Aspect of this main plot line for this episode, they're swimming in a pond and yet they decide to open their eyes under the water on a tropical island. It just seems very odd because it's not something, whether you're swimming the ocean or a lake that most people open their eyes under the water. Mm-hmm That's reaching. I think you're reaching. I just found that very strange do, maybe I'm an odd swimmer. I never opened my eyes into the water. So I thought that was very strange. And then to come across the passengers and to lead all down that road. Now this episode was kind of a quiet one because I looking at my notes for the last, the last few episodes. And especially coming off the tail of that last really good episode, we've now hit a stride where I have half a page of notes and I normally have like two pages for each episode. So I think that just kind of speaks volumes to this. Just kind of felt like maybe it was material that was left over. Maybe it should have just been a longer episode before maybe this should have been put into Kate's original episode. I don't know. It just kind of felt like I was trying to figure out what was going on with this episode or maybe what the purpose was of this episode. I will say when we get to the bank scene, then it start, I started to understand. And maybe they should have expanded that more because I actually felt that was a really strong storyline. I really enjoyed the, the bank robbery and then finding out the last minute that she's in on it. I, I thought that was quite quite interesting. And I actually really liked that that little storyline, it wasn't quite the big goosebumps or, or, or anything like that with the Ethan story storyline. But I did, um, I, I did like that. So maybe they could have just expanded it a little bit more and. Coming back to the idea that rose is always full of really Sage advice and good direction. I think this is like now the third time that she's kind of been this source of, or this voice of reason or voice of just calm, collect, smooth she's at she, she, she's a, she's a great character. And I think it's a reminder of why she's such a strong character on this show, especially when you're on an island contemplating your, your, your future or your very existence on this island. So props to rose, even though this is a Kate episode, and I do have to say. I'm not maybe a Kate hater, but I can understand now some of the animosity or, or, or the friction that people would have to, to, to Kate as a character, because she breaks that trust with Jack in this episode again. And I think that's a huge, I wouldn't call it a deal breaker because again, we don't know everything about that backstory, but I do think that that was like, Almost unforgivable thing because she consciously made that effort to, to lie to him on multiple aspects of this one, one storyline. So started to feel for Jack, because I think he's falling for her and maybe that's where they're going with this, but it seems to be. He's falling for her and she's now this manipulative or complex person that he's not gonna be able to figure out. And he is a by the book, rational person, he's a doctor. And yet there's gonna be this enigma in Kate that he can't quite figure out. So all in all a quieter episode, but still sweet, it was kind of slow. I, I felt it dragging at moments and then in an odd way, boom, it felt like it was over. So I just, it didn't quite catch it stride compared to some of the more recent episodes. And then I tell myself that every good show cannot just be, go, go, go, go, go. Because that's just not gonna be the rhythm, especially of a, a multifaceted show with this many different layers and this many different characters. So I would. It's a middle of the road show. It's not a bad one. It's not a good one. I would say it's a, I don't know, a five outta 10, six outta 10. Okay. Um, so can I just say, it's interesting you say that because I think being on network television, especially when they didn't have to compete with streaming, you found a lot of television shows had these quote unquote filler episodes because they had an order of episodes to fill the network said we need 24 episodes. Mm-hmm . And so it's like, okay, you can't have every single episode B their, a game. So streaming services, which we're so used to. The creators kind of call the shots and say, we're only giving you eight episodes and every episode is gonna be like this intense thing. Right. So it it's neat that you caught onto that because that's kind of how we felt too about it. And so maybe I should then, because thinking back to what I did say, maybe I will revise this to about a six and a half outta 10, because there's also something about the habitual nature of network television. And I remember being younger. And you had your regular night on television and it was more the comfort of the show you knew versus being impressed by the show you knew because it was not about being blown away every single week. It was about connecting with the characters and connecting with the storyline. And it didn't always have to be this epic. What, what, what is, I guess now more, more the streaming style of a, of a television show. So I can actually appreciate that because sitting down after a day at work, it's the, you flip it on, you might have been watching another show after it. I can actually appreciate having a bit of a quieter pace, but yet you're still finding out layers. It's not like nothing happened now. They still, they still did bring in quite a bit of new stuff into this episode. So actually I will revise it to a six and a half. Okay. Six and a half. So, did you, how did you feel about the tide rising? Because when I watched that, I was like, I think dad's gonna really enjoy that they have an island problem that they're addressing based on his look. I don't think he remembered, I honestly forgot about that. Cause I actually made a note of it being like, really, I think dad's gonna really enjoy this because it kind of talks about like their dated. Like it's a more like basic where trapped on an island problem. And I know you don't you like when they deal with the island stuff that's and that's very true. Actually were a member when that scene was occurring, I was very surprised. And maybe there wasn't, they cut it, but I was very surprised that there wasn't a line about why don't you just join us at the caves? Like this is a reason to not be on the beach. Do you wanna have to keep moving yourself? You're exposed to the elements. Like I'm just shocked that, that I remember they did. They did mention a little bit of it because I can't remember who's talking, but Herley essentially says. or someone says like, well, they don't want to, like, it's not very compelling. Like it'ss oh, it's CED. And Jack were talking pregnant girl, right? Yeah. Yeah. So Jack kind of says like, you could just come to the caves essentially, because he's like, why do you like moving up the beach is only gonna be a temporary solution. And then C's like, well, no one wants to go to the caves after what happened to the pregnant. so they kind of address it, but yeah, they don't really, like, he's not like come to the caves. Everyone not campaigning again. Yeah. I was, yeah. Shaking hands, shaking, hands, hands, kissing babies. no, and I will now actually look for that because I feel like I can be very critical. And then when I'm given something that I enjoy, I don't actually maybe recognize, so I will a little bit of self-reflection. Yeah, no, we, we are covering it all today on let's get lost. And man, were you correct about manipulative?? Um, not so much complicated. Um, but manipulative for sure. Good call. That's my favorite word to use, to describe Kate. And I have it written about 18 times my notes for today and because this was a Kate episode, can I bring a piece of Kate trivia to of you three? Oh please. The ocean three. Let's hear it. And maybe this is old news for lost fans, but I was a little blown away when I found out about this. Oh, in 2009. So, I don't know what season we would've been in, in 2009, depending on when it would be there at the end of five or the beginning of sixth, February 2nd, 2009. So the end of five. All right. Evangeline Lilly launches a charitable initiative. All right. She has multiple. I will have, you know, she has multiple charitable initiatives, but this one launches in February of 2009 to auction off what to raise money for a charity called task Brazil to give the street kids in Brazil, a fighting chance at a happy and prosperous life. Sounds fakes. I'm sorry with that. I'm sorry. Evangeline and Lily is not, I feel like it's your, your shelf company has been verified on two websites. Okay. So fine. Maybe she has a connection to what is it? Uh, bananas. She picked from a tree wow. Incorrect. Uh, some things she's. Warm. Oh man. That's all yours. What is, it's not yours. Sound. What steal your stealing people's style. Her fingernail clipping. No. Is that something she has worn kind on her body. He said warm. He didn't say, okay, what is it? It's gonna be something weird. Her like bra or something. Laja Ray auction. Oh, wow. She handpicked over 2000 pieces, which were an assortment of cuts, colors and styles 2000. Oh. So she didn't wear them. That's where the conflicting information is. They say it's her lingerie, but they's not, I don't think they were sold on eBay. This sounds more and more phony. The more you talk about it, fake news. Imaginating no, but I feel like I've, I heard this, I feel like I have to, I, you know what, I don't doubt she's involved in charitable work. I just wish that she believed in thousand pieces. Like, I, I feel like maybe like some, maybe she, oh, I don't know. I don't wanna think she wore a lot in the show. When you think about how many maybe pieces that she had to wear on every episode, but her biggest charitable interests are being an advocate for the poor. She was once a missionary in the Philippines. Oh, let's she visited the poor in Rwanda. Okay. You can't just, and used her celebrity status to help promote. Video aimed at teaching teenage girls, how to defend themselves against rapists. Okay. Well, that's good. Okay. You can't just say I visit the poor. That sounds very any who, this was 2009. I'd like to hear about the charitable endeavors they did to like give back to Hawaii as they ripped it of its resources while they film there. I don't think they ripped do God. You got real better. Real quick, Dan, we better wrap this up. She's getting turn. Thank you very much, Dan. Thanks dad. And I like how you tried build up Evangeline Lilly a little bit before and we rip into her on the show. we rip into Kate dad. Like I wanna give her a fighting channel. You rip into Kate, not Evangelina. Okay. So let's get into the episode. Should we go through. We seem to lately be going through the flashbacks. Yeah, I like that. Um, this one is a little bit harder to separate out completely because the flashbacks kind of dovetail into what she's looking for, but essentially she's in a bank she's trying to open an account or something together. She's says photographer. And, uh, we know it's fake in some way, cuz she's given a fake name. Yes. Um, so we know that it, this is likely at, and again with the flashbacks, it's interesting because we don't know the exact timing of everything. Right. Mm-hmm um, so we don't know how far before she's on the island. This is, but we know clearly there's still some fake business going on and we see that she's a part of this or she, that the bank's getting robbed. So we see that she's supposed to be this innocent. Victim and all of it. Yeah. I mean, I think the flashbacks in this episode are, it's not as complex as other flashbacks. Like it is really just one scene cut apart in a few, a few times. So, I mean, she is very convincing at first that she's, um, a victim mm-hmm and then it all just falls apart. And I think that like, again, I I'm, I'm gonna not joke about it too much today cuz this episode, I wanna say, I appreciate for those who watch and know about Kate, I appreciate that her backstory is tragic in ways and we're gonna see a lot of complex history for her. I don't mean to negate that or to downplay it. Like I believe Kate has been through things, but what I don't fundamentally don't like about her is so present in this episode, which is. she, for whatever reason, however, she got this way. She is so good at lying. Yeah. And she's so good at manipulating the people around her. And I'm annoyed at her at the end when she, you clearly orchestrated this. Okay. And she's in cahoots with the guy, they do that kissing scene. You clearly orchestrated this and you manipulated him. And I, I made a note of that. I'm like another man manipulated by Kate, into breaking into this bank so she could get what she needed. Yeah. Mm-hmm . And when she turns on them at the end and is like, no, one's supposed to get hurt. It's like, what do do you think you did to all these people? Exactly. You've just traumatized the whole bank full of people. Yep. Like they're hurt. And when that guy kind of has a little uproar, whatever, and then, you know, like someone could have gotten hurt then. Well, exactly. And then she did, she just started shooting around like, yeah. She shot him in the, in the leg. Yeah. I think that's the part that's like difficult is like. She like goes in on these like weird kind of like when she was driving with that guy. Right. Like she runs him off the road and then she's like, oh, I have to save him. So in this case she orchestrates this bank thing and then she's like, but no, one's supposed to get hurt. It's like, well, but you, what you're orchestrating and what you're planning is an illegal act where you're getting people with guns. Mm-hmm real guns to come into a bank full of unpredictable situations. Someone could get hurt. Exactly. Just because you say, no, one's supposed to get hurt. Doesn't make you good. Just because at the end, like you said, there with bringing up the other thing, just because in the end, after you run the guy off the road, you pull him from the wreckage. And just after you traumatize a bank full of people, you don't let them kill the bank manager. You are not the hero here. Yeah, exactly. And I think that like, it, for people I've seen like on Facebook groups and read ands of people who defend her, and if you wanna defend her by saying, you know, she's been through a lot and this is how she has to cope. I'm willing to have that conversation, but don't pretend that she's this like amazing benevolent people are getting hurt because of her actions. Well, even if you take out the fact that obviously we know what you know, for what more of her story is, like, just taking it solely in the context of the first 12 episodes, there's a girl who lied about herself. She is she's wanted, she had a us marshal come after her in the, in the us all, you know, is that she. Gave that Australian guy, a fake name ran off the road, pulled his arm out um, and now, you know that she orchestra a bank thing. She's been manipulating Jack and the Sawyer the entire time. Like, there's not a lot of good here that you can kind of go on. And I think that this episode didn't do a lot for her and is at the end with her like crying. Like, I feel like I'm sorry that, you know, the man that you loved is dead, but also like, if I think about all the things I know about you up to this point, like, I, I feel like, did you do it on purpose? And then say, oh, well that wasn't supposed to happen. Like, I don't know. Well, you're right. Like, you can't really take anything. She says at face value because just because she says, oh, it wasn't supposed to happen. Well, sorry, but you're making these things happen. Exactly. And, and if the, the plane little, like, I don't remember exactly what the deal is with the plane. Me neither, but if it's, it holds some sort of sentimental value and that's all she went there for. And I, and I really don't remember, um, that part of it, then that's a lot to put people through no matter what the sentiment value may or may not be. Um, and if there's more to it still, like it's not, and that goes back to her selfish character. Mm-hmm because exactly that if it's sentimental, that's extreme. Yeah. If that's purely sentimental, but if it even is something else, you're very selfish to put all those people through that, just to get something.. Yeah. And I, and that's, like I said, when I always say it's fundamentally my issue with her is that she's selfish. Does she climb trees and pull apples down and pick bananas? And generally isn't like a, you know, like vulture on the island. Yeah. Like I'm glad to see that she pulls her weight and I think she is useful. And I think that she's got a traumatic past, but I don't like that. She manipulates people around her to get what she wants. And that is what is happening in this episode, both in the flashbacks and on the island. Keep in mind at this point, we don't know that she has a traumatic pass. well, but I think it's, it's safe to say that something's gone on. It sounds like she's crazy. Yeah. To be honest, it sounds like all she does is fake create alias after alias. And she's been on the run for God knows how long. Yeah. And that's the thing is because we have no context. Right? It's true. We don't know if that bank robbery is like six months before the Australia thing or three years, five years. So we don't know how long she's been, but it doesn't paint a very good picture of her. It it's, I don't really know what the back or the flashbacks are supposed to tell us about her. Me neither, me neither, other than this behavior. And her ability to lie is been ongoing for. And I guess to show that she does have some sort of. morality and, and like line that she won't cross. But I think we did kind of see that with the Australia guy. Yeah, exactly. Maybe it's just reinforcing it cuz I agree. I don't really understand the flashbacks. Um, and what they're supposed to hit home for us as viewers, other than don't trust her. Another reason maybe the Marshall was after her, like mm-hmm this is another or a crime that she's committed. Is this the only crime so far? Potentially. I think so. Is that what we're supposed to think is why mm-hmm he's after her maybe, right? This is, um, it's not spoiler alert for those maybe it's part of it. Who knows, but it's definitely not. I think it's, it's adding to the list. It's not helping anything. It's really not. So, um, I mean, and that's just, it like, it is sort of one note in this episode on Kate. Yeah. It's really hard to feel any sort of sympathy or empathy for her in this episode, based on what we see on and off island. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, ultimately what the flashback shows us is that she gets that envelope and that envelope is what's in the briefcase, which is what she ends up looking for at the end. But to go back to what's happening on the island then. Yeah. Kate. And so that scene is so funny to me. Like of course they find this like beautiful lagoon they're like, let's go for a swim and they're acrylic delightfully. Let's go to the rock. Like it's he's tickling. Her's funny. Like he did have a good dive though. Teresa. I agree. That was impressive. He great dive. I had great penis pointers apparently. Yeah. Yes. Um, and I do agree kind of with Dan when he said like the eyes open, like I don't swim with my eyes open. do you guys, I mean, I do from swing laps. I don't really know if I do or not, but I think when I'm watch, this is just how I'm different. I suppose, when I'm watching a TV show a movie, I don't really think of. I mean, yes, dad is very observant and end of the day, whether or not it, it is a, it's just a way to get them to see. Yeah. And that was creepy, but I think we could all tell like that wasn't gonna be a happily ever after moment for them for long. Yeah, exactly. Nothing is ever happy on this, on this island. and so they find the dead bodies, which so sad. He's like holding his, I know, was heartbreaking. I love the continuity of Sawyer still having a bandage on his arm. Mm-hmm mm-hmm I mean, like, it would make sense that he would, he wouldn't have healed yet, but I think some shows might not have. Yeah, they would've just left it. Yeah. So I love that. And we also care about it again later, so it makes sense. Yeah. Um, but yeah, and then they get the case, the infamous case. I can someone please explain to me what was happening with her whole it's mine. And then he calls her out and then she's like, well, you can take it well and then goes to steal it. I know. I just, I know, I know. And then gets Jack involved. Eventually that's all process there. Just open it with him and if you open it with him and he's like, oh, I'll take the guns. Just be like, okay. I want the walk away. Exactly. But I think like, and that's just that, I don't know what. Who, what type of character they're trying to paint with Kate here, because she's so flippy floppy on what she wants to do, but they don't even do a good job of explaining why that is. Like, she goes from one extreme. The other, exactly that saying it's my case. Oh, we'll just take it. I don't care. What's in it like, well, obviously you do and Sawyer's not buying it. No. Especially when you come at him in the middle of, of the night, assuming that like, I'm sorry. There's no way you were gonna take that from him. I know. Like you're so stealthy, like, come on and like, I don't know if part of it is that, like, she doesn't want him to have the guns either. Like they're, they're probably, again, like, I appreciate that she has some morality and she has like a. like, she has good, like good motivations at times. So I'm sure there is a part of her. That's also like, I don't particularly want Sawyer to have four loaded nine millimeters, but like, like you said, is that part of it, like, it's really hard to tell with her. And part of it is that like, she lies to everyone, Jack Sawyer, anyone who willing to listen. And so she, we don't know where, what to believe with her. And I feel like at this point, what she's been through with Sawyer, I don't think for everything that we've seen of Sawyer and that she's seen of Sawyer, she would truthfully not want him to have the guns. I think she fundamentally thinks he's not a horrible person. Right. Especially based on what we've seen in the last few episodes or her she's kind of sticking up for him. So even that part is like, when she's telling Jack this like, well, you really want sorry to have the guns kind of thing. And it's like, well, I think maybe even Jack see's through that a little bit. Hence why he's. No, we'll open it together and he doesn't really trust her from the beginning either. Yeah, that's true. And I think that's, what's hard about this episode is you it's so hard to trust her in this episode. Mm-hmm . Yeah. And like I was thinking about how, remember when Jack was like trapped in the CA like the yeah. Cave in or whatever, and she like abandoned, helping side. Yeah. To do. She just didn't give a shit. So I'm wondering if that's kind of like a similar situation where. whoever this guy is that she loved and whatever this steel is with this plane, like she was willing to do anything to get it. But like, she went in such a weird, like roundabout way to get there. And it was so convoluted for no reason. And she involved all these people, Jack Sawyer for, for what? She's um, I don't know. You can't really feel bad for her. I did enjoy the montage of story, trying to open it against her. That was good. Yeah, I did like that. Like, yeah. And then the whole, like I did like Michael and Hurley giving him a hard time and Halliburton is a company. I thought that isn't it like a gun manufacturer? They're gun manufacturer. But I agree. I didn't know that. I wouldn't know that it's UNOP openable or whatever either. Well, I feel like in a, in the us they're a little bit more, that's true. Um, aware of their gun manufacturers, but yeah, they're like a gun manufacturer. Cause even Hurley knew. I know. Well, he is from California. LA like the idea I think is that gun cases are supposed to be somewhat impenetrable true. Other than high impact velocity. Yeah. And then that was hilarious. And then, and I will say this, I kind of do like how she like sneaked up and got a story I did. That was kind of funny. Yeah. I really did think that was kind of funny that that was funny, but also like you're such a sketch bag. Like, what are you doing? It was pretty funny. He just wants to open it. Like if he, if he was gonna open it, like, just think be there with him or just take after he'd be like, I don't need this. Exactly. That's a toy plane. He's not gonna think twice when there's money and guns in there. Come. um, yeah, if anything, you had a better shot of opening with Sawyer and having Sawyer not give two shits about that. Exactly. And Jack who's like, I'm overanalyzing everything you do. Yeah. So it is a filler up. So we talked about that. Dan also talked about how he had half page notes versus what he usually does. Um, but there are a few like, kind of Fillery type things that are cute and like good mm-hmm and like Charlie and rose is one of them. Yeah. Mm-hmm because it's true. Like, we don't know how long it is since like how much, well, I guess it's been a day or two, but, um, it is right after Charlie has essentially lost Claire and almost died. Mm-hmm and you can still see the scar on his neck, which is like pretty scary. So, but I, yeah, I loved when rose was like, you think you're the only one who's got something to be sad about. Yeah. And I know that she knows that like, that's what he needed. Mm-hmm like he needed to be doing something mm-hmm Um, so that was really cute when she's like, well, you're helping me kind of thing. Yeah. Um, and then we have Shannon, who's still treating this like a vacation mm-hmm in some ways sunbathing her line when she was like, I have a pretty good base. Yeah. Like when he's like, we're pretty close to the equator, you might not want his son. I've had pretty good base. I know they're kind of like. I, so there's clearly like a hint of like something to come with them and, you know, I kind of think that's a good, like, they're a good contrast to each other because she is kind of, you know, and you hear her say it later when she's like, I know I'm like useless. Didn't you hear? I'm like useless. I did feel for her in that. I actually really like Shannon in this episode. Me too. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, We give her a hard time and that crying scene will never not be hilarious in that first episode. Um, and she is purposely difficult, but clearly she's heard that a lot in her life. Yeah. And you know, you hear that enough, like, why wouldn't you believe anything? Like why would you believe anything differently? Yeah. And so we kind of started to see that, like when I don't know, valued, if the that's the right word, um, for something she does deliver. And I think that's very sweet. And I think the contrast of like having this kind of quote unquote useless character kind of matched up with like, arguably one of the most useful characters is actually really nice because he is really good at what he does. He's really efficient. He's really effective. He's really, um, helpful. So he clearly like sees something in her and can like help bring it out. Maybe. So like I have watching them, I have like, hope that like, she's gonna find like a little bit more of a place. I was so annoyed at him though, when he was getting mad at her for like the translations. Oh my God. And when she was finally like, dude, I told you I can't really translate. Like shut up. I was like, good, good for you, Shannon. I, I really like that. She stood up herself. Yeah. Because not only is she already insecure about it, but you're yelling at her dirt. I know like, come on the whole time. She's probably sweating being like, is this the right word now? Yeah. Like I I'm second guessing everything because if I don't say the right thing and it doesn't match these weird mathematics. Yeah. The crazy lady wrote some more. Yeah. Like Jesus, it was just not, it was kind of like another moment where sad, maybe isn't so calm under pressure. Right. Like he's very useful. I agree. And he's very good at, at what he does, but we've seen him sort of lose it quite a few times. Yeah. When, when push comes to shove, that's a great kind of segue into my favorite moments of the episode. Talking about men who are unable to keep it together under pressure. who said Jack was calm, Daniel yet again, we see him need a solution and he comes at it from a, a very. Harsh place. He threatens to withhold Sawyer's medicine. I know that's insane when he said that I was like, you have lost like what the hell? Yeah. And the way he describes it to him, like Jack, your doctor. Yeah. You're never gonna do that and be like, stop describing like that. You're so weird. It was very strange when he already doesn't. I okay. Maybe it's like, we know he doesn't really trust Kate mm-hmm but I think he mistrusts Sawyer more. I think what it was here is like, cuz right before that we didn't completely touch on it. But the scene right before that, or like near that is when she comes to and she's like, and he's like, well we're gonna open it together. And she's like, of course, yeah. You can tell she's lying. He knows she's lying. Yeah. But I think you kind of nailed on the head. Like he doesn't trust her, but his like distrustfulness or distrust of her is somewhat personal. Yeah. Like he's concerned about like. What her distrustful nature or her dishonest nature says about like their relationship. Whereas I think she, he just doesn't trust that soy won't go crazy if he has a bunch of guns. Yeah, exactly. Right. I think so. and then this whole tide thing. So this was actually legit. The tide was threatening to come up on Hawaii and wash away their set. Oh. So they actually had to move it. Otherwise, all their stuff would be washed out to sea and, and, and so they had to write it in somehow. So that's, that's cute. It is kind of funny how it is like kind of like filler, but it is actually a legit reason they had to do it, have the cast you have to work. Yeah. Right. and you know what? It's interesting because I find. it kind of goes in waves of like what their issues are. Mm-hmm . And so like, so many things are happening to them at a time that like, there's just no time to like dwell on something. So the first couple episodes is this like mysterious monster and like, yeah, all these kind of like, quote unquote supernatural elements. Mm-hmm and then we've got all this in fighting, and then we've got this Ethan rom thing and it's like, almost like, oh shit, we forgot that we're also on an island where things like the died could also destroy us. It's so true. Um, so it's kind of, I, I thought it was good timing to kind of show like, yeah, despite all of the like interpersonal issues we're having, like, you guys are so stranded on an island and you have to find a way to cope and survive.. Yeah, I like that too. The only thing I will say about this episode that like kind of, I, that I don't love is that first of all, the tide thing was like such a minuscule part of the episode. But then on top of that, you had a glimpse of almost everyone except for like Jin, which is fine. But like, because you had these like Locke had one scene. Yeah. Um, Boone had two and a half. If you count the like creepy thing, sun had one where Jack was like, what is this plant for? Um, and it was just almost like. Yeah, we didn't need that. Like, it would just, it just kind of felt like, I mean, have a filler episode. There's nothing wrong with that, but don't have fillers in the filler episode and I felt like that's what that whole, like, did anyone see like the snippet of Locke? Like we couldn't have put that in like a different episode. Mm-hmm it just didn't like really the flow. It was so weird because you would just go to different characters and then so much of Kate and it was, it just felt like really disjointed when well, the ax is what Boone took. Right. Mm-hmm and. I agree, the flow was not great. And I think, you know, when you have a show where you have to have your credited cast be in it at like each episode and they don't have a strong episode story to put them in, it, it, it is probably gonna suffer in that way. Yeah. And the axe was also, so that Sawyer couldn't find it to use to open up the case. Yeah. Which again, like, might, it's probably not that clear that that's why, but it exactly. Cause I agree that scene where we're, um, Locke. Well, which is it. I was just that. Did they see you or you don't know? I was like you, this is weird. This is like the Locke boon thing is getting weird. Yeah. And I don't know how feel about it. Well, that's why I'm glad Shannon brought it up. Cuz she was like, what are you guys doing? and you just, oh, that creepy stare he's he's they've been spending too much time together. Well, it's good. They, oh you mean Locke and Boone? Yeah. Yeah. You meant Shannon and Boone at first um, so you know, those are kind of like the Fillery type things, but Jack gets the case from Sawyer. Yeah. At the end of the day. And then eventually they dig up just unnecessary the Al throw off a cliff, a higher cliff than whatever Sawyer did. Yeah. But I'm sure it could have been gotten like my God, you're gonna dig up a man who had already suffered. He's been under there for like two and a half weeks for a key so that you can get this, this tiny plane, this toy plane. And we don't know what the importance is at this point, but like. You're telling me you couldn't have found any other way to open that case without digging up a human. It's interesting when you say it like that, because it just like reminds me of everything we said at the beginning that she's willing to put all these people's lives at risk to Rob a bank to get it. And here she's again, willing to do something that most people would never, ever want to do. No matter what, I can't think of anyone. I think they only ever dig up bodies to help solve like a crime mm-hmm mm-hmm this is not a crime. Well, it is considered quite disrespectful. Yeah. Right. You can tell Jack doesn't really wanna do it, but also he's agreed to, because let's, let's talk about why Jack's willing to do this. Okay. Jack just wants to know about her life at this point. Mm-hmm like, he's so curious about it and to the point where I will say, I really don't like the way he talks to her in this episode. No, he's a Dick. Like, I don't think that Kate. Acts appropriately in a lot of ways, but I don't think she's done anything to Jack or that like it's day 20 to 21 or something. Yeah. 21, 22, 21, 22. You've known this person for 22 days. I appreciate it's a very complex situation. And you probably do feel like connections, like way sooner, but you haven't earned the right. No, mm-hmm to talk to her like that or treat her like that. Like he's so aggressive with her about her sharing things with him. Yeah. Mm-hmm and yeah, fine. If you want his help, like he can kind of ask why and be a part of that. But when they get that case open and he's screaming at her, mm-hmm to like, know what's going on. It's it's awful to watch like Jack, you have not, you have no right to talk to Kate like this. No, it was rude. She doesn't owe him that much yet? No, by any means, no, but jacks will calm. he's so calm. Um, and then when he, he forces that reaction out of her, that emotional kind of, and then he just walks away from her. And I get that, like, what she said is. Jar not good. And it's jarring, but at the end of the day, like what did you expect? Yeah. You know, a us marshal was flying to Australia to take her home. Mm-hmm, , it's gonna be bad. You've pushed her and pushed her and pushed her. And you finally get the reaction you've been pushing for and you walk away from her. Like it almost seems vindictive. Yes. Like, yeah, almost like a way for him to just torment her a bit, for whatever reason. Maybe he's still annoyed that she kind of flirts with Sawyer, but it is very peculiar and, um, not a good, not a good moment for Jack. No, I don't. I don't like him in this episode, also, every, as much as we can blame Kate for doing God. Knows all this weird stuff at the end of the day, Jack is an adult. Mm-hmm he doesn't have to do anything. I know he doesn't wanna do. You don't wanna dig up the Maral don't dig him up. You, you wanna know what she is up to fine. You don't wanna know then leave it, but you don't get to essentially berate her. I mean, then there's the problem that like Kate lies so much, you can't believe anything she says, but it doesn't want you screaming at her like that. Like it's like when you said in your stream, like just don't help her. Mm-hmm yeah. Sleep alone. Exactly. That's exactly. I think about my issue too, is like, you don't have to trust her and I get that. She's not trustworthy. You don't have to trust her. Yeah. And don't like, yeah. Ask her to watch guard over you at. Yeah. But like, if you, you take issue with her, then leave her be like, there's absolutely no reason. No, you gotta pick her to scream at her. And like you said, fine, she's coming to you. She wants your help. Maybe you feel like if you're gonna help her, you deserve these things. She's not willing to provide you what you want. Don't help walk away. Yeah. Right. But berating her into having an emotional breakdown. Yeah. We're like ask nicely. And that's the part that I just drive him crazy about Jack. He goes up to Sawyer and he's like, if you don't give me this, yeah. You're gonna die. and then, you know, she gets what she wants and he's like, tell me, tell me, tell me, like, maybe we try this. Maybe we say, Hey, Sawyer, Kate really wants to open that. I'll tell you what's in it. Or you can come with us. Hey, Kate, a very different, why did we dig up a body? what's what is that? Like? Why can you just not ask? What, like, why are, are you so quick to like, he's so aggressive, he's very aggressive. So aggressive. Well, and I like Sawyer was just blunt. He's like, whatever she told you, she's lying. Yeah. And it's like, Sawyer sees it and we know Jack sees it, but he's less willing to admit it to others. Mm-hmm whereas Sawyer's just like, no, I'm just gonna kind of play with it at this point. Yeah. He, he, a hundred percent knows. He's just like, he's like, this is dumb because it is dumb. Exactly. Like at this point it's a game to Sawyer because there's nothing else to do. And he likes getting under people's skin hot. like, but Jack's like, I think I love you but you're not telling me the truth. And at the end of the day, like maybe he doesn't believe her there either, right? Yeah. Like, I, I, you know, it's hard to believe that she's like, I, for example, I, I did not feel anything when she broke down, other than I do do think Jack was in the wrong, I didn't feel anything. I didn't get emotional for it. But when Charlie breaks down to rose, I was like, bawling. Like that's so sad. Mm-hmm yeah. Their moments were really good. Um, and you're right. Like she knew he needed something, you know, I'm not a particularly. Religious person, the prayer I could have done without, but I get a lot of people feel that need in, in moments like that, I suppose. And it was just so like, I really like when she said there's like a fine line between denial and faith. Yes. Yes. But it's like nicer on her side of the line. Yeah. And you know, it's, it's cute. Like cuz you know, everyone kind of gives her a heart, not, not everyone Jack and her and Charlie now both kinda give her a hard time about this. Like. You know, complete, utter faith she has, and belief that her husband is still alive and, you know, she doesn't really care what people think. Yeah. And she's just happy to feel what she feels and, you know, and to help people where she can and, you know, she keeps to herself, she doesn't really push. Yeah. Mm-hmm , you know, so like let her have that, you know, she, you know, I find it very encouraging to watch her and how she feels about everything. and I like that. She's not being like, she obviously believes that her husband is alive. She's not running into the jungle, like a crazy person and trying to find him. Yeah. She's like so true. We will find each other mm-hmm in due time. Like there's no point in rushing and going crazy. Everybody, everyone else has this craziness to them. Yeah. Like she's very calm considering she's gone through the exact same things they have. And like, she's like, no, he's here and it's gonna happen. Yeah. I mean, did we kind of touch on everything cuz you're right. Like therea, everyone else kind of has this very small takeaway, like lines that aren't really son has a plant to help with headaches. Yeah. Which plant it is unsure. I also think it's like, just talking about sound very quickly. I think it's starting to become a little bit obvious that she knows what people are saying around her. Yeah. And I think, I can't remember when it is, but I think that's how Kate. I think I see that Kate figures it out because of something like that. I have a memory of that kind of being like, she like laughs at something. Yeah. Or, and Kate is kinda like you understood. Well, and you're starting to see it a little bit here. Like she's like, she kind of looks and she's listening, but not really listening. Mm-hmm yeah, because now she knows that Kate is noble Yeah. So yeah, that, that, I, I think it we're getting close to some sort of climax yes. On that revelation on that front, I feel like we're also close to a Boone and Shannon flashback. We have to, I think that's next week actually. Cause he is like, when you end an episode of him looking out in the corner, like, you know, like yeah. He's not, he's not right in the head right now. Yeah. I'm pretty sure that's next week is, is it. I think so too much. I don't know if they're, I'm sure there's the both of them, but it's kind of like Jin and sun. Yeah. They're, it's hard to remember. I think it's technically a boon flashback, but we're gonna see like a ton of Shannon in it. Right. Well, cuz they're siblings, right? Step siblings step. Um, yeah. Are we ready for rankings? Yes, let's hear the ranking because it's, it's gonna be interesting for rankings because there were only several like really key players in this episode. So, um, I will say, um, almost everybody got points, whether or not they were positive or negative, except for Jin who was not in it at all or, and Claire who was not in it. All, everybody else got like a little something whether go be up or down. Okay. So we're gonna start at the bottom as per usual with Michael that he went up, but he's still at minus 1,345, of course. But our 13th spot has changed and we have miss Kate. Austin with negative minus negative, negative negative 665. I, the gap between Michael like 14th and 13th is just out of this world. All right. Then we have Shannon with, um, negative 495, Jen with negative 60 and then the top 10 all in the, in the wow. More people are moving up. Yeah, they are moving up. Um, I'm a little bit worried about Michael and Kate. Why they're they're they're pretty far down there. I'm not sure that they'll ever get to the positives at this point. um, so we have boon with 50 Walt with 155 Sawyer with 180. Side with 285 Jack with 360 Claire, 3 75 Locke six 40 sun, 6 95, Hurley, seven 20. And then Charlie is still at the top with eight, 10. Oh. Now our honorary ranking goes to rose, obviously. Yeah, obviously. Why is there confusion? It's very, first of all, Chris will be so happy that Charlie's at the top. Um, when did Claire go so far down? Yeah, she was at the top, not too long ago. It's because everybody else is, is, and she hasn't really been in that ranch. Yeah, exactly. That's the hard part. And my only other question is why is Walt above boom? Yeah. Um, I think it was when he. Like just giving it straight to Michael where like you like that yeah. Was she loves to see it. Can you talk back to their dad? I think that's what it was. Okay. But, and then Boone is just creepy. He's just been like a really, like, he tries to help, but he is not doing right. And then he is, I, I understand that his heart's in the right place, but like the, um, what's the word? The, um, like when you do it, can I ask how. Why is Locke so high though? Locke went up a lot from the Mo oh, he's still lingering from the, wow. Yeah. And that's the thing is like a lot of these centric episodes, like Kate plummeted, like 400 points in one episode, right? Like there's not a lot of good things. I think the centric episodes really make or break hurt and hard and help. Like if you have a good centric episode, you're gonna get a bunch of points and that could keep you in the ranking, like top for a bit. Mm-hmm . Um, but then can we, like, after every season, then like the top three to like their fan. Male. Yeah. Get a little certificate. to the Oxford. I would love that. They'd be like what? That hell is passion. I really don't know. Who's gonna end up at the top by the end of the season. I know who's gonna be at the bottom. We should send that to you. congratulations. Was he always at the bottom beginning? Yes, I there's absolutely no doubt in my mind. I don't for five. No. Shannon was at the bottom in the first. Oh, was she episode I'm hundred percent. We have all the wrong things too. Don't worry. My goal was number nine in the beginning. Oh, wow. And then he dropped down to 14 by, by tabula Rossa. So suck episode. It was real fast and then never. Well, okay, well, should we do our final thoughts and or rankings if there are no final thoughts? Rankings. Yeah, let's do our rankings ratings, ratings ratings. Why? In fun of me meaning need to ratings. So, okay, so I'll go first. I'm gonna give it a seven. So a little bit less than the IMD rate. Yeah. MDD rating a little bit higher than Dan's rating. Yeah. Um, it was a filler in all intense and purposes, I believe. And I mean, whatever it wasn't, I'm still gonna watch it each season. I'm not a skipper. But, uh, yeah, not the greatest. So, um, I will give it a six and a half as well. Mm-hmm um, it's, it's Kate. We all know. I think I was relatively re restrained in my Kate hate today. Terrifying. Um, but like she's manipulative, she's selfish. I like, I let's just say this in my quest to be proven wrong about Kate Austin, this isn't helping anyone's case at all. Um, and then beyond that, it's just, there's not a lot for it. I do feel bad for her at times. I don't like Jack and this, I think Charlie's cute. Shannon's cute. And, uh, I, I know what everyone's probably thinking tuning in for. They wanna know what happened with Claire and we don't, we don't rock getting that. So I don't know when we do, I can't remember you. Um, I'm gonna give this a 6.9. Um, It's like I said, like, we've all kind of said, like it's a filler and then I really didn't enjoy that. It was a filler of fillers. Um and what we learned about Kate is not that like new don't trust her she's sketch back. She lies. Um, all we know is that Jack's weirdly in love with a liar for some strange reason. Um, and it just, I don't know, it just was bla like, and after the last episode, I understand like, you're right, you can't have every episode be like what? Bam. But this was very like, wow. Work. I appreciate how you describe in sound effects. I'm so sorry. Wham. Bam wa wa I don't, you know,. Alrighty. Well, thanks everybody for listening. Please follow us wherever you listen to your podcasts, visit us at let's. Get lost pod.info. Email us with any feedback at let's. Get lost pod gmail.com, and we will see you next week. Thank you so much. Bye. 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