Theresa 0:00

We're three best friends and we love lost and we love talking, but even more so we love talking about lost. So join us for some laughs. Good conversation and let's get lost together.

Kip 0:16

Hello. Hello. Welcome to this week's episode of Let's Get Lost. It's Kip. I'm here with my three best friends. Well my two best friends, Amanda Theresa. How are you guys doing today?

Amanda 0:30

Good. I like how you're actually your own best friend in this, this scenario. You know? That's important. That's good. Self love's important. Self love is

Theresa 0:36

self love is very important. Yeah,

Kip 0:37

I feel it. I. So, um, well today we're gonna be talking about a very heavy episode. So, uh, we thought we would start with some less heavy items. And the first thing I wanna say is a huge, huge shout out and a huge thank you to one of our very first supporters who has supported us from day one, listens every week, and has been a, a great Patreon supporter since we launched. And that is our dear friend Sheena. So thank you very much, Sheena. We are very happy that you love the show. And thank you for supporting us.

Amanda 1:15

Yes. And she's been very vocal about her love of both therea and Kip's voices. uh, but just Teresa and Kip's voices. That's fine. Sheena, I still also love you, despite you not loving my voice. Is that why you're, you're slowly like, you're like,

Theresa 1:28

and, uh,

Kip 1:30

it's your voice. Slowly lower and try, just

Theresa 1:32

talk about how Sheena loves their voice.

Amanda 1:35

Exactly. Um, but yes, thank you so much, Sheena.

Theresa 1:40

Yes, thank you. I especially the voices compliment because I'm very self-conscious about my voice. I always thought I sounded like a man.

Kip 1:48

We've had, I mean, not to too our own horns. I, we quite a bit of feedback about our voices. I've also been very self-conscious about my voice. That was my biggest hold up about doing this podcast same since from the beginning. So that's nice to hear. Some positive reinforcement. Thank you everybody.

Amanda 2:03

Yeah, it must be nice. Um, I'm not self-conscious about it cause I have to listen to myself all day anyway, but, uh, you know, some nice feedback would be helpful either way. Um, yeah. So thank you Sheena. Um, and we're gonna just kind of do something that we haven't really done before. Um, and we're going to talk about some of the feedback we've been getting.

Kip 2:23

Yeah. And please, if you like the show, even if you don't like the show, you know, if you have questions, comments or, or anything you'd like to say, please email us and let us know. letsgetlostpod@gmail.com. You can also find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, and our website. Let's get lost pod.info. Uh, we always love hearing from our listeners and to see what you like about the show, what you don't like about the show. So let's start with some feedback here.

Theresa 2:54

So here's one from, um, a listener and they said, how much do you have to prepare for these? Or do you guys have a photographic memory of every scene? And then they laughing. Emojis. The commentary is detailed, opinionated and hilarious, like sitting with a group of friends from different walks of life. Mm-hmm. it's easy listening when I'm on the bus and I look forward to the new episode every week. That was really sweet.

Kip 3:16

That's great. That's really nice. Thank you very much. Um, we do not have a photographic memory. I think there's many times where we say things like, we just watched this like two hours ago and I can't remember what order this was in, but and

Theresa 3:28

then we jump around.

Kip 3:29

We jump around quite a bit. But thank you very much for that feedback. That's lovely. Um, okay, I'm gonna read one, uh, dear Lost Podders, your show has been bringing me back into lost. I feel like I lost touch, pun intended with the show after it aired. Since rewatching, I think it has aged pretty well. Would you agree? Are there any elements you think would be cut from season one if it was filmed today? Well, good question. I can't think of any glaringly obvious things, only things that would be added. Probably like more cell phones and social media use. Curious what you all think. By the way, enjoying the voices. All three of them have. There you go. Amanda

Amanda 4:12

I see. Finally some vindication.

Kip 4:14

Have you, any of you ever considered recording for one of those? Uh oh, story time sleep apps. Okay. Cheers. A Sage 41.

Theresa 4:28

Um, I will say I, I definitely consider doing like audio books, but the idea of editing is like really daunting to me, so I just like didn't do it. Yeah. Like if I could get someone to like edit it for me, then absolutely. But

Kip 4:41

Yeah. Um, do you think there's anything that would be removed?

Amanda 4:45

Um, I think maybe like, I get that a lot of Sawyer's stuff is, um, character driven and like, we're supposed to think he's an asshole. But I think that would be different. I don't think we'd be getting the same level of like overtly racist and inappropriate. Yeah. I was gonna say the same thing. He'd still be a dick, but I think it would be more in. Line with values today. Like I don't think it would be as racist. Cause that's not being dicked. No, that's, that's beyond that today. Exactly. Yeah. So that's the only thing I, that jumped out to me with that question. But that's a great question. We love questions.

Theresa 5:16

Mm-hmm. we do have questions. I think that one thing I'd probably add is I'd like to see, um, like an LGBTQ plus character. Yeah. Because I think that's what's like, really missing. Um, we have all these like, storylines, but why can't we just have like a nice LGBTQ person who's on this island with these crazy people?

Kip 5:36

I don't, yeah. I don't think there was

Theresa 5:37

any, actually, I don't think not, I don't think there was a single one. I, I was trying to think about it when the question was asked. I'm like,

Kip 5:46

I can't even, no, no. There definitely wasn't, unless I'm completely misremembering. Or they clearly if there were, they were very minimal that we don't even recall.

Theresa 5:53

Yeah. I'm pretty sure there were none. Yeah.

Kip 5:55

Yeah. So, um, I have here another, an Instagram dm. From Frederick, thanks for the laughs. I discovered your podcast from the oh and another shout-out Shambala lost Facebook group and have been listening along for a couple of months now. I live in Europe, so lost has always felt very removed for me. I still love the show, but I feel like the writers were blind to not include any European characters. Do you know if the writers ever revealed why they chose the character nationalities that they did? I have not found anything online.

Amanda 6:29

Wow. People are really coming in with the hot questions.

Kip 6:32

We were not producers on the show, but uh,

Amanda 6:36

the only thing I could think of is, I honestly don't know. Like just because of the route. Maybe

Kip 6:43

I'm thinking maybe cuz from Sydney to LA it'd be mostly Americans. Yeah,

Amanda 6:47

we could be totally wrong. This is a complete speculation, but obviously you have a lot of, I would imagine people coming from Asia and that route in particular. I'm not saying like Europeans don't go to Australia or the U.S. But I think that. That wouldn't be the route they would necessarily

Kip 7:00

pay. I think you fly through either Asia, like Sydney to somewhere in Asia or like the Middle East Connect then back to Europe. I don't think you would typically fly through North America to get to back to Europe.

Theresa 7:15

No. Unless, why would you are on like some kind of, you know, backpacking trip. But I don't, I don't know. Like, so

Amanda 7:20

that would be my only, that would be my legitimate like guess

Kip 7:23

and I will say this dear uh, Frederick, I do believe some Europeans eventually do come onto the show. We are not strictly North American Ocean Oceania characters. Mm-hmm. the entirety of the six seasons. Mm-hmm. So. Mm-hmm. fear not. Awesome.

Amanda 7:42

So, yes, that's a little bit of feedback we've gotten. Thanks so much. Thanks, everybody. Please, please keep doing it. Positive, negative. We, we love to re we love to read it. So now we're gonna get into the meat of why you're all here. Yes. Which is to talk about episode 20. Um, do no harm. So I think we can all just start. This episode is heavy. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And this episode is one of my, it's my favorite episode of season one and it's my, in my top five of the whole series. Wow. That's not surprising. Um, just to throw it out there. So we are looking at, sorry. Do you need a synopsis? Oh, yes. Sorry.

Theresa 8:24

Oh, it's me. Um, alright, so we, like Amanda said, we're, uh, talking about episode 20, Do No Harm. So it's written by Janet Tamaro and directed by Steven Williams Locke leaves the seriously injured boon at the caves, forcing Jack to take heroic measures to save Boone's life, unaware that her brother's life hangs by thread. Shannon spends the night on a beach with Sayid. As the relationship evolves, Boone's condition worsens, Jack's abilities are further put to the test as Claire goes into an unexpected labor.

Amanda 8:56

Yeah, heavy. And the best part is you barely have to watch the episode now, thanks to that synopsis

Kip 9:01

No kidding.

Amanda 9:03

All right, so episode 20, do No Harm is Days 41 to 42 on the island. Sawyer's nickname Count is two. Mamacita and Kato. From really talking about things that wouldn't be on Yeah. Season one in 2022. Wow. IMDB rating is 8.9 out of 10, and this episode at 17.12 million viewers. It's a lot. Very impressive. Very impressive. Lost as per y.

Kip 9:37

Okay,

Trivia

Kip 9:38

well, let me hit you up with some trivia. I actually only have one question for today. Oh my goodness. Because I feel like we have a lot to talk about. Yeah, I do. Oh my God, I'm scared. Okay. Sudden Death. Yeah. Pretty much. Have your sound effects Ready? What does the title of the episode refer to?

Amanda 9:53

The Hippocratic Oath.

Kip 9:55

Correct. But do you know the Latin term

Amanda 10:01

any Latin terms? I have rolling around in here for my own profession,

Kip 10:07

Primum non nocere, something that I would never have known that phrase in the Hippocratic Oath that says first. Do no harm. Mm-hmm. Jack.

Amanda 10:19

And there's a reason that that is the title of this episode. So let's do what we do best and get,

Kip 10:27

let's hear it. Yeah.

Theresa's Stream of Concsiousness

Kip 10:29

Theresa's Stream of Consciousness.

Theresa 10:31

It's weird that it's so upbeat when we're talking about what we're talking about. It is what it is. Yeah, it is what it is. Baby it starts with, oh God, Boone. This is awful. He's breeding, bleeding fricking everywhere. He looks awful. Oh my God. Oh, that's nice. They made an emergency cart. That's amazing. Okay. Jack and Sun are the best team. All right. He's in bad, bad shape. I've watched enough Grey's Anatomy to know that this is bad Juju beans. I feel bad saying that. That whole speech tux thing was pretty obvious. And I'm also starting to see Dan's point on the hair. It's kind of off putting, oh, Jack, we can't make promises bud, and this seems really bad. Oh dear. It's very scary that she's asking. I hope Claire's okay, Sawyer. Not everyone likes you. Sorry. Burn. Sawyer isn't that bad. he isn't asking for anything in return. He's offering to help. He's not a bad guy. Give him a shot. Just ask nicely. I'm sorry. How the heck are you going to do a transfusion on an island? Oh my God, Sun. How does she know how to do all this? She's on amaz. People would stop asking so many questions all the time. He's trying to save someone. Charlie, give him a minute. For God's sake. Um, Jackeroni, you all, are you all right? Ye, I can't stop looking at the black, black hair. I'm worried about where these flashbacks are going. I'm not sure about marrying a patient. Jack. Isn't that inappropriate? Oh my god. Sun with a bite stick. She's so badass. This looks really painful. I wanna. Oh my God. Did all the booze break? Eh? Some did. Okay. Just keep going. Kate, no time for this run. Girl. Run. Oh, son-of-a-bitch. The timing. Holy for hells gas pains aren't like that girl. Claire, let Kate help you, man. Oh my God, Jin. Yes, Jin. Again with a super sonic hearing. He's such a good guy. Where was Claire going though? I'm literally handing points out left and right. It's so stressful. I mean, maybe someone should ask Shannon if she knows Sun is really trying to help out here. Don't snap at her, Jack. But I also know this is a tough stitch. I hate, I hate this relationship. No to Shannon Sayid. Ew. No thank you. No chemistry. I mean, I guess that setting's pretty romantic though. I mean, you know what Sun is the calm that Jack needs. You know, Jack, I get that. But please don't do this, Jack. You're the only goddamn doctor on the island. They need you. Maybe we don't do this, Jack. You know, you seem kind of sad. Panda, or somebody who's getting married. Wow. Vows seem really hard. I mean, that's the vibe I get from movies and these shows. I'm gonna guess that you're either divorced or not married. Now, Jack looks worse for wear here. It's nice that there's a translator for Jin. I mean, that's a lot to take in though, Charlie. I hope he can remember it all. This is chaos and I'm not here for it. How is it nightime and no one has reached them yet and her water broke. Well, Boone looks unwell. Ew, y'all went off. Don't you know you're supposed to tell folks where you're going in a situation like this. What if y'all died? No one would know where you went. Guys, I must inquire Shannon, why You need to tell Sayid all this information, while you guys are making out. I'm not in love with my stepbrother, but I did sleep with him. Just fyi, there's literally no chemistry. Do y'all have condoms on that island? Oh my God, they finally made it. See, Jin has a calming effect somehow. Like there's def more to him. Even on this island, Jack, you literally look like you're gonna die any minute now. Please stop. Yes, Sun you gotta put a stop to this. He looks like he's gonna pass out. Sun is so freaking strong. I can't Hurley, what's the diaper for? Why does he need Michael? This whole episode is freaking me out. Hey Papa, Sheps came. Jack, your po your pants are wet. Why didn't you roll them up more? You know, look at Papa. Sheps, he knows how to roll up his pant legs. You know what? I can't get married. These vows are next level. I can't say this out loud. Uh, Papa, Sheps coming in with the insight. Oh my God. They're gonna cut off his leg with that. I can't. Where's Claire going? I'm confused. Why is she holding her breath? They're so nice to be far away from her, but maybe someone should like hold her hand or something. Be behind her. I don't know how this works. Oh my God, that's never a good sign. Well. Oh, Jack is having a Locke moment. Sun's right, though. This isn't it. You'd have to do surgery. You can't do that here. This isn't gonna help. It's more pain that he doesn't need. Just make him more comfortable. Jack, please. You have to let him go. Jack, don't. Please don't please. I'm, I can't look at this. I can't see it. Just, let's just stop. I can't breathe. My God. Did this woman memorize her vows? Damn. Don't folks usually whip out a sheet or is that just the movies or do they speak from the heart? I don't know. I don't know how love works. Maybe she did memorize it. Oh dear Jack, that's awkward. I'm confused. So like, are you marrying her or, oh, I get it. Those were his vows. Okay. I guess that's cute, but does Kate know Jack? Does Kate know? I'm literally on the struggle bus today. I have a front row seat and I'm, oh my God, Boone. Okay. Thank God he's not gonna chop his leg off. There's just not that much to be done. Oh my God. This poor girl. I hope there are no complications, you know, because their only doctor is not doing so hot. Oh my God. That's a big baby. Isn't that right? Are they supposed to be that big? He's covered in Jello. Ew. But you guys didn't clear his nose and mouth, Kate. Just fyi. Jack said you had to do that. But I see that as one life begins, another one ends, and this one hurts. It hurts a lot. Oh, okay. It's daytime now, and I can't breathe. And how is she walking after all of that? Ladies, y'all are fierce. Oh my God. Oh dear. Sayid and Shannon and spent the night. Now this is gonna be even harder. Nice to see. Everyone's talking to Claire again. No longer a time bomb, I suppose. Cute baby. How did they clean the baby with spring water? Did they just put 'em in the water? Who cut the cord? Did she just walk with the cord sticking out? I don't know. You know, even being a robot, I can't help but feel my heartbreak. It's not Shannon though. It's Jack. It's when his face crumbles. When he tells Shannon I can't. And we've taken a turn. Oh. It's a lot of feelings. Yeah.

Kip 16:33

A lot of, a lot of feelings. Oh boy. Hoochie Mama. That was rough stuff. Um, oh man. I always think of things I wanna say to you and then I forget.

Amanda 16:47

It's a tough fucking episode. Are you crying? No,

Theresa 16:50

I sneezed. Are you thinking about when Jack's face goes, I guess you got No one can see what I'm doing, But if you watch the episode, you know what you're talking about. Yeah. Like at the end when it's like face crumbles when he is about to talk to, that's honestly, that's what hurt me more than Shannon finding out. And Shannon like, Like that. Just, oh, that was hard. That moment.

Kip 17:07

Yeah. That's tough. Um, let's bring in,

Dan's Hot Take

Kip 17:10

Dan, before we start getting into the episode. Oh yeah. I wanna hear Dan's hot take.

Theresa 17:13

Oh, same here

Kip 17:15

and now it's time for Dan's Hot Take

Dan 17:18

this might not be what you want to hear, but I didn't find this episode nearly as maybe upsetting as maybe some people around this table. I sensed that Boone was gonna be on its way out as a character. There just seemed to be a lot of hints at that so far in the last, especially the last few episodes. And I mean, maybe I, maybe the writers wrote it like this, but I really feel by the end, Boone passing is almost a blessing for the situation that he's in because he is in such rough shape, middle of a deserted island. You have a doctor who you know is trying to help him even at his, but limited supplies he has, and you just realize that. his time has essentially come almost like what I imagine, when you're very old and you've lived a, a life and you just, you know, accept, you've accepted your fate at that point. And I felt like Boone really did accept his fate at that point. So while it's sad to, to lose somebody, I think it's better than the alternative, which was to, you know, cut its legs off and, and do all these other very harmful almost trial things in a vain attempt to quote, unquote save him. Um, but what would we be saving him for? What kind of, you know, rescue is really not imminent or it's not hinted at that it's imminent. So I, I actually preferred some of the previous episodes a lot more to this one. Um, some of the past few episodes have felt much more, um, in depth, but that's not to say that this wasn't a good episode. Like, thinking of, um, Claire having the baby, uh, in the moment when Jin's speaking Korean to her, I just thought even his Korean is so comforting, you have no idea what he's saying, and yet whatever he's saying in that moment, I felt comforted. So they, they did a really good job of that, you know, whether you wanna call it lost in translation, but it's not lost in translation. It's, they did a, they did a very nice job of that, of that scene. And also, you know, kudos to Kate for being that supportive person and, you know, putting kind of her, her emotions aside for this and just realizing that what she needed to be in that moment was a support system, but also just not a sugar coat her. Because when she says to her, this is gonna hurt, you know, I'm scared too. Like, she, she levels with her and she doesn't try to hide the fact that it is gonna be scary to give birth. Cause I mean, giving birth in the middle of the jungle, there's no, you know, even the one doctor who's on the, the island is not even there to help. So there would be so much anxiety going into that situation that I thought that they did a nice job. Of, of that storyline more than what it could have just been with, you know, yes, there was a doctor on the island and maybe she gives birth in the cave. And you know, they, they, they interwoven it with this idea of boone's decline and then this new birth of, you know, what is the new, the newest person on the island, which is, you know, a really special thing.

Kip 20:17

Um, so can I ask, what did you think of, of the ending when Jack makes his statement, when the episode ends?

Dan 20:29

It obviously was not that memorable. Cause I can't remember it,

Kip 20:31

when, when Jack says Boone didn't die, he was murdered. Oh, I'm going to find John Locke

Dan 20:38

See, that was not, I don't know that, that felt like very much one of those network cliff hangers that they wanted to have for a snippet, for the, for the thing. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with that, because obviously in his situation he finds out that little bit of information. And I think that little bit of information is actually what really got me upset with Locke. Cuz up until this point, Locke has been a really good character. Not always the best, but he's been a good, um, a good person on this island most of the time. And in that moment I lost a lot of respect for him because it costs nothing, to be honest. It, it doesn't, especially in the middle of this island where they have nothing. The truth is the bare minimum and he can't give that. And especially because, I mean maybe they're gonna reveal this in the next episode, but I just wanna understand why he wouldn't fess up. Like it's not even like that plane was by the bunker. I mean, yes, you should be fessing up about the bunker as well, but it, it, it's not linked to that. So why would he not just say that they came across a plane? Cuz the other thing is, is that they could get a group together to go and try and find the transmitter. You know, perhaps that survived the, the wreckage. Maybe they can find a black box, whatever. All these things that I just thought for him to lie so quickly in that moment. He's obviously been thinking about this and he has probably some master plan, but yeah, I, I really didn't like how they, you know,

Kip 22:08

you didn't like how Locke acted?

Dan 22:09

Yeah. Okay. I was gonna say like, Jack's, um, flashback was really, or the flashback storyline was really sad in this episode cuz you just could tell that he wasn't happy. You have his father kind of interwoven into the story and his father's not being as bearing as he normally is, but you can just tell that he's really confused and you just, you know, it actually caught me off guard. That was actually one of the things that stood up most about the episode was that, you know, this is. This is someone who really deeply cares about people. You can tell that Jack takes his job as a doctor very seriously, especially the whole, um, malpractice, uh, storyline in a previous episode to just how he always wants to help people on this island, that you start to realize that he just cares so much about people. And so it's actually not unheard of, that he would care so much about someone as a patient, that it would almost cross that boundary into that confusion of if it's reciprocated, he feels like he needs to go on with it as part of their healing process or as part of their treatment. So I thought that was actually a really smart storyline, uh, for the writers. I, I found that, I actually found that more interesting than the Boone dying, um, because that, and again, I'm not trying to sound cold here, that was just, I felt like they were building up to that and it did feel, uh, natural. And yes, it's sad that someone has passed away, but kudos to the writers for the way that they did it. And they held out and they obviously had this storyline in mind with the baby, and it just felt like, okay, this is, you know, it's wrapped up a few things that have been just like Claire's pregnancy has been threaded through. I feel like Boone Boone storyline and of, of him getting worse and worse has almost been quietly threaded through as well. Now looking back on it,

Kip 23:58

so what would you rate this episode out of? 10.

Dan 24:02

This episode would probably be maybe a seven. Okay. I'd say a bit lower than before. I'm not going into decimals now. Maybe, I dunno, seven, seven and a half between there. Like, I think just a little bit less, like, not that it was a bad episode, but I did not like it as much as some of the previous episodes.

Kip 24:21

That's still pretty high. Even high seven. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Dan 24:24

And I would say actually the redeeming people like things was Jack's flashback. That was a really good, strong storyline. But also, uh, Sun and Jin, both their storylines in this episode very, as small as they are, are really, really well done. Yeah. And I just like, I mean, I have in here, like Sun is a superwoman, she's brilliant. Like you just, you, you come away with these real positive feelings towards them as characters. And I just, I loved the moment of when Jack, you know, just assumes that she's brought some medicinal. Um, herbalist treatment, which again, is not unheard of. She does have a garden, but it was like this one up of, no, this is for the pain. Like, it was, it was a really good moment. Yeah. Really. And yeah, I, I, I like Sun and Jin are probably some of my favorites in this show.

Kip 25:13

Definite, definite, crowd favorites. Mm-hmm. absolutely. Everybody loves them. Mm-hmm.

Dan 25:18

I hope they never turn mistrustful, mistrustful.

Kip 25:22

Okay. Well stay tuned. Thank you, Dan. Yes. Thanks Dan. Thank you. Good recap. I

Theresa 25:27

agreed with a lot of what you said. That's pretty as

Amanda 25:29

always. Also, Theresa agreed. All right.

Episode Discussion

Amanda 25:37

Let's get into it. Um, okay, as always, Theresa and Dan's comments are perfect recaps for the episode. One kind of comment I had right after listening to. Dan is this idea, I mean it plays out very well, but, and we'll get into it a lot more, but this episode is, is clearly why doctors are forbidden from working on people that they care about. Yeah. Mm.

Kip 26:01

Yeah. It's true. It

Amanda 26:03

both storylines. Mm-hmm. right? And we don't, we don't know exactly what, how exactly the relationship switched from in his flashbacks from Sarah being his patient to his then wife, um, at this point. But you still get the sense that obviously a, a, a line was either crossed or changed at some point, right?

Kip 26:27

I don't remember actually, if you do find out what I'm, you do, okay. So I won't go into what I'm thinking then, cuz maybe I'm just remembering the episode, so don't wanna give away a spoiler. It's possible.

Amanda 26:37

What I should say is you do see more of their relationship. Um, it's not just limited.

Kip 26:42

Yeah. Yeah. I remember you do see more. Um, I couldn't remember if it was

Amanda 26:46

that exactly it, so I have a very specific scene in mind that would relate to this. Um, but I don't wanna spoil anything,

Kip 26:53

so, okay. Yeah. So I mean, should we talk about flashbacks first or should we just maybe fuck it all up and

Amanda 27:03

just go all over? I think we just are gonna have to go all over with it. I think that's fine because there, for an episode that really only has two driving forces behind it. Yeah. A lot actually does happen.

Kip 27:11

Well, I'll read you my first note that I made. Charlie is both annoying and funny. I don't like him when he is peppering Jack with questions so unhelpful. It's like back off. But I thought it was funny when he said he's currently pouring his own blood into Boon at the moment. Kate's like, where's Jack? He's pouring his own blood into Boon.

Theresa 27:30

Yeah, that was funny. But otherwise he was very just like annoying. Like he almost like took boon spot of asking nonstop questions. That's right. Yeah. because it was constant. Like he's, it's, he's clearly like doing stuff, Charlie, like, maybe we take a step back and we just,

Amanda 27:48

I mean, but it makes sense, right? Like no one knows what's going on. They're all panicking, they're all freaking out. They wanna know. Um, and some people are just like that. Like I found it very relatable. Like,

Theresa 27:56

ask anybody else. I just, I don't know. Maybe it's, cuz if this was happening in front of me, I wouldn't ask the person who was actively trying to do something. Like, I would ask, it'd be a bystander.

Kip 28:05

Yeah. It's, it's, it's, uh, it was a, it was a bit much for me and I, I found Charlie, I don't know, I don't know if I wanna get into it right now, but the whole birth scene, Charlie was conflicting for me. What do you mean? Well, like, he's not the dad. He's not the dad And they don't even, they're not even like together, together. But he like, it was like, this is my baby. And even like I loved Jin in that scene too, but even when Jin was like, kind of like, whoa, congratulating him, congratulations. Yeah. I was like, eh, that's a bit much.

Amanda 28:36

Yeah. So I mean, really we could try to just kind of take it kind of scene by scene, I guess. It obviously starts out very dramatically and Jack does something that I, I think also, I mean, Jack does a lot of things in this episode that probably wouldn't be, you know, signed off on by the American Board of Surgeons or whatever. His, his, uh, governing body would be a little concerned. But he does kind of start off by, by doing what I was always kind of told in my profession, you shouldn't do. And I would imagine it's very similar to doctors. You shouldn't make promises. Yeah. Right. Never. Um, you should not say, I'm going to save you. Right. And I, I can't imagine that he does. And maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that is kind of his thing. He clearly makes a promise. to Sarah at some point as well. Um, promising everyone, but he really shouldn't promise Boone that he is going to save him.

Kip 29:34

No, I agree Amanda. Like he should not be promising, especially in a situation like that that's extremely on uncalled for.

Amanda 29:40

Yeah. And, and I get the tensions. They're high and he cares about 'em. And like at this point, like there is no other doctor. They have to do what they have to do. But I just think like that, that, but to me that sets the tone for the whole episode because that's, that's part of the problem. It's not only that Jack wants to save Boone and he cares about Boone, cuz I don't really think Jack is overly invested in Boone anymore than he is anyone else on the island. And I imagine Jack's clearly the type of doctor who cares extensively about his patients, but he, he goes crazy because he makes this promise, right? He does it to himself. So it sets the tone for everything we're gonna see. Cuz that promise is really what set him up, I think for,

Kip 30:20

and I think, I wonder, like, I wonder if he's also just feeling a lot of that pressure of being, everyone's looking to him to be able, the one to fix pretty much everybody, like from just headaches to now this guy is literally dying on his table so everyone looks to him to save everybody else, fix everybody else. And after being a month on this island with sort of all these other pressures, getting, getting to him and all these other pressures around and these new relationships with people and you're spending 24 hours a day with them, like it might push you beyond where maybe in his professional setting he was not necessarily making overt promises and to people vocally or verbally to actually like, kind of crossing that line and, and saying what he's thinking. Mm-hmm. if maybe, if maybe that had something to do with it. Now we saw Locke drop off Boone at the caves last episode. Episode. Mm-hmm. and I'm trying to remember, is it this episode at the beginning where Jack's trying to ask John questions? Or was that at the end? I think it was the end of last, end of last one. So he's not in it at all, is he? No.

Amanda 31:28

Mm-hmm. No. And I think that's quite powerful because what is he doing? Yeah. We're gonna know, we know, we know what he is doing. He's back at the, the Hatch. Hatch. Mm-hmm. And we'll see more of what happens after the end, obviously. Mm-hmm. But you don't really, but you're thinking and, and it's, it's funny to, not funny, but it's powerful to me because I think that we're supposed to kind of experience the same like feeling that they're probably feeling, which is where the fuck is Locke.

Kip 31:55

Totally. Yeah, you're right. And so we

Amanda 31:57

don't know where he is either. So we're all like, I don't know about you guys, but about halfway through, I even also kinda like, where the fuck is lock? Why aren't they showing us what lock's doing? I wonder if that was a choice. Right? It had to have been, you know, we're all, we're all experiencing the same emotion, which is like, where did he go and why isn't he doing it? Why isn't he there? Yeah. Because to take it back to the beginning, sorry, we always jump all over. Mm-hmm. everyone else is helping even. So you see that little cute scene where Sawyer's offering Claire food. Mm-hmm. super adorable. And then Kate runs up to him and wants all the, the alcohol, the alcohol, There's not even like a minute

Kip 32:31

of hesitation. Not hesitation. And because he could see it in, in Kate's face. Like, this is serious. Yeah. Like, don't fuck around. Like it like he knows. Yeah. And he, you're right, he's no hesitation. He just says, what do you need? Can I come help? And even when she says no, sorry, already too many cooks he backs off. Yeah. He doesn't push it. So,

Theresa 32:48

and like, he looks like legitimately disappointed that he, he doesn't have more to give. I know when she's like, is that, and he's like, yeah, yeah. You can just see. Like, he's just like, I probably wish I didn't do those shots with him that

Kip 33:01

night. Mm-hmm. I, I also thought, I thought of you Theresa, when I heard hearing, um, Kate yelling help his super hearing. Oh yeah. Cause he just like, his head perks up and he's like, listen, Theresa's right. He does have super hearing.

Theresa 33:18

Right? Like it's like when he heard that thing going Yeah. I was like, where, where, where? And like he knew exactly. I'm just like, oh my God. Like my hearing is not that good. That was so funny. I startled so easily. That's how bad my hearing is. And he can hear Kate yelling randomly into the abyss.

Kip 33:34

So I, I'll, I'll just want to talk about Sun and Jin for a second. Um, cuz obviously Kate runs back with the alcohol and, and it break. Well, we'll just go from there. Kate gets the alcohol. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Trips and breaks. That's so shitty. It sucks. And then

Amanda 33:52

also, so does she hurt herself? Is my question? A lot of glass? Glass? Yeah. No, it wasn't fun. That did not look like a fun experience for her though.

Kip 34:01

And um, if she hadn't done that, she probably wouldn't heard Claire. She would've been so focused on running through the woods. Mm-hmm. Right. So it was a good thing in the end. Yeah, definitely was. here's Claire. And Claire's just like kind of pacing and freaking out internally, and

Theresa 34:15

she's like, it's just gas. I'm like, whoa.

Kip 34:17

No

Theresa 34:18

ma'am. I don't know what gas you've had, but whoa.

Kip 34:21

Yeah, exactly.

Amanda 34:25

Agreed.

Theresa 34:29

Kate, refresh my memory. What happened? Okay, so she's running how I,

Amanda 34:32

these are episodes are so hard when layers just like these major things are happen. There's

Theresa 34:36

so much going on. So like Kate's running, she falls, she sees Claire, Kate starts yelling, help Jin hears, comes along and then Jin goes back to the thing.

Kip 34:46

Jin goes back

Amanda 34:47

to find. No, I think, oh yes, because then Sun translated,

Kip 34:50

which I love that scene, when Jin pops into the tent, see Sun, and he's immediately like eyes down, like he's like, yeah, doesn't want to talk to her, doesn't wanna see her. Maybe he's ashamed. Like there's all these things going and at first you don't know if Sun's going to translate cuz she kind of holds back for a second. And then she does obviously, Yeah, it was, it was an interesting dynamic cuz it was, last episode was the one where they have their like falling apart. Yeah. And so, um, I also felt like Jin looked and sounded freer in this episode too. Like he wasn't bound to protecting Sun. He wasn't bound to Sun either. So it was this like last time, was it last episode or in translation? Translation. So two, two episodes ago where they had their following apart. We talked about Sun being more free and out there and open and now I feel like Jin's also feeling it a little bit too.

Theresa 35:45

Yeah. Cuz it's clear that he and Michael have like this, like bromance kind of going where they're like, they've

Kip 35:50

bonded

Amanda 35:51

very, very least a very like, like a truce and like when, because that scene in the beginning where Sawyer offers her food. They're also trying to get Jin to stop working. Right. For, so like, Michael's like take a break kind of thing, right? Mm-hmm. So like, there's clearly like a, like maybe best bromance, um, at like, the least like this, like camaraderie. Yeah. Where they care about each other now.

Kip 36:13

Yeah. Yeah. But I, but we skipped over some scenes with Sun and Jack as like, and Boone. Yeah. And Boone Sun is great as Jack's like assistant or has like

Amanda 36:27

physician's assistant or like, she was awesome. Yeah. She, she knows a lot of stuff. Mm-hmm.

Theresa 36:32

and I, I like

Kip 36:33

how she's like a socialite. And

Theresa 36:36

that's thought too. I was like, that's why I was so surprised when she like, she's like, it's a bite stick. And I was like, oh my God. And she's like, I'll set the leg. I'm like, wait, what? No, please don't Like, well, she didn't anyway, but like, she was like the one who was like holding him still. Like I wouldn't be, so she's very calm to jump in. Yeah. Like she's a very calming presence. Which I kind of like for Jin, ands Sun, because like Jin's the calm one in the whole Claire situation. And then in this one Sun's the, you know, she's the reasonable being. Like he's bleeding internally, he's mm-hmm. for the pain. It's like, oh my god, the pain.

Amanda 37:12

So yeah, that, and that was like, like Dan kind of said that was kind of an interesting little scene, right. Cause you're like, he clearly thinks it's an herbal thing. I think we're supposed to kind of think that too. Yeah. And so when she's very practical, it's like, oh, that's not really, like, normally she's a little bit more, you know, comforting and smear these herbs on it. Yeah. So it's kind of interesting. Um, the whole Jin and Sun thing is interesting as well. Cause like you said, Jin also is so much lighter. Yeah. And he, he's comforting and soothing with Claire, but he's also like, there's some like levity to it. Yeah, totally. Right. Yeah. That you've just never seen.

Kip 37:49

No,

Amanda 37:49

exactly. And like, he's so cute. Yeah. Like I, I wrote that at one point just kind of seeing like Jin, um, I don't know where I wrote it, but essentially that it's kind of like they're almost humanizing Jin a little bit more. Yeah. I wrote too,

Kip 38:05

I just love Jin in this episode. Yeah.

Theresa 38:08

It, it reminds me of that scene with, um, and like, this is why I always thought there was something more to Jin because remember when they had first crash and Jin's kind of like walking around trying to like pass out urchin? Mm-hmm. And he like gives it to Claire and Claire's like, oh, okay. I don't know. And then he watches her eat it, and then when her baby starts kicking, she's like, oh my God. She gets happy and like puts his hand on and he's like, no, no. And then once he feels, he's like, oh my God. And it's like you see it in his face clearly. You're, you're not like the asshole that we're meant to think at this point. So there's like more to him. So to see it again in this episode, I'm. It was good just to flank the, the, the crazy in the middle.

Amanda 38:45

And you know, like, it's clear that Sun is a trigger for him. Like, like you said, protecting her and this and that. I, I wonder, I can't remember, we did talk a lot in the Jin episode about how the rest of the flashbacks with Jin are more shared flashbacks with Jin and Sun, but do we get a little bit more like, and maybe this is just like something I don't understand, but is he like that because of her father? Like, I just, I don't understand how he became so like, controlling of Sun, because we haven't seen that in the, like, we've seen him become like angry and violent and like, obviously like mm-hmm. like there's been some sort of like, he's got trauma and issues and things, but like where did this like controlling mm-hmm. thing come from with her.

Theresa 39:32

I wanna know the same thing actually.

Kip 39:34

Yeah. And I mean that we, we did talk about that in that episode because I agree it's. it, it comes out of nowhere that I can tell.

Amanda 39:44

Yeah. Like there's nothing in their flashbacks so far of anything. He's been like disconnected from her in their real life. Exactly. And like distant and cold. Yeah. But nothing to suggest that he's like overbearing

Kip 39:55

and I'm wondering Yeah. Like, so I'm guessing we're gonna get another flashback that might explain a little bit that maybe it does have something to do with Sun's dad because he obviously feels a very strong, um, like responsibility to Sun's dad. Mm-hmm. he's, you know, given him this job and he's like given him these tasks and he takes upon himself to like, try to do really well. So I'm hoping we'll get a flashback where that explains a little bit more.

Amanda 40:23

Yeah. So is, is that, is that what it is? Is it just, is taking care of Sun on the island and an extension of owing her dad? I'm thinking. And does his idea of taking care of mean control. Mm.

Theresa 40:37

It's, but does it have to do with, with her dad still, if his plan was to not go back?

Amanda 40:44

Well, it's hard to break habits though, right? I guess,

Kip 40:48

and like we kind of said in that episode was, you know, maybe he's just not feeling like his, he hadn't finished his plan yet cause he still had those watches to deliver. Oh yeah. You know, so maybe he hasn't made that break yet and maybe this is helping him make that break. Mm-hmm. um, yeah.

Amanda 41:03

But apparently being away from Sun helps to make to that break. Yeah. Because, or like you said, we kind of got a little bit of glimpse of that with the, in the beginning. Like, is it just like, does, does Michael bring this out in him? You know, I don't, I don't know. It's very interesting how quickly they have blossomed without one another and

Kip 41:23

that, that's a good way of putting it. Cause I put it seems like this break has been good for both of them. A hundred percent so far. Right. So, um, So, yeah. Sun and Mike, or sorry, Sun and Jack are great together. Um, they make a good duo. She really sort of like, um, brings some humanity to him and isn't afraid to call him out, which I love. Same.

Theresa 41:46

She's so important in this episode.

Kip 41:47

Yes, I know. And she gives them those looks and

Amanda 41:51

we need to talk specifically about that scene later. Okay. Yeah. Let's talk about that later. I have like so many things to say

Kip 41:56

about it. Okay. I want, oh, sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, no, go ahead. I was gonna say, we haven't touched on any of the flashbacks yet. Right. And so even though we were

Amanda 42:04

starting with those

Kip 42:06

so I just, my first note on the flashbacks was Jack giving off major party of five vibes. I felt so many party of five in this episode. Like, like Matthew Fox was channeling his party of five days in this episode. He was,

Theresa 42:22

he was on Party of five?

Kip 42:23

Oh, he was?

Amanda 42:26

He was party. Yeah, he was the whole five

Theresa 42:29

Honestly, I never watched Party of five

Kip 42:31

Party. No. That was like his big,

Theresa 42:33

I never watched, I thought this was

Amanda 42:35

You do? Oh yeah. It was a huge, parents died and he had to take over raising his siblings.

Theresa 42:40

Is it, is it because I'm younger than you? Both that I

Amanda 42:42

by six months. Teresa.

Theresa 42:44

Amanda. It's a al It says on your birth certificate one year less than mine in the year. If you just look at the years,

Amanda 42:53

I'm just saying that that's probably not what it is. Cuz you watched 90210 and that started before

Kip 42:58

Exactly.

Theresa 42:58

I didn't watch 90210

Amanda 43:00

You didn't watch Beverly Hills 90120? Oh really? Oh, I did.

Kip 43:02

Did you watch Melrose Place?

Theresa 43:03

No, not at all.

Amanda 43:04

That was my least favorite. Zero.

Kip 43:05

I fucking love Melrose's Place.

Theresa 43:07

I never watched it.

Amanda 43:08

Guys. Next rewatch podcast.

Theresa 43:09

When were the, well, I mean, I guess then I'll be the Dan's Hot Takes, cuz I don't know what that is.

Amanda 43:14

Um, Beverly Hills oh two oh aired from 1990s, 2000 party states, um, aired from 95 to 99. When did Melrose Place Air? I told you I didn't like that one. I dunno the answer. So like around 92 to 97,

Theresa 43:30

I think I watched a lot of like one Saturday morning, you know, Sabrina the Teenage Witch.

Amanda 43:34

Yeah, I watched that stuff too.

Theresa 43:35

Yeah. In the nineties. Yeah. But I also didn't watch Mash Tour of Duty or like all that other stuff. Me too. I love it. I've never seen that event. Well I have all the DVDs. Yeah. If you like to watch.

Kip 43:45

So, um,

Amanda 43:46

you guys, I was wrong at aired from 94 to 2000. I apologize to all the party of five fans out there.

Kip 43:53

can you check when Melrose's place aired?

Amanda 43:54

I can. Um, I just wanted to try to find Theresa a picture of Matthew Perry in his role. Matthew Perry Fox. Matthew Fox. I thought he was on. Friends. I wanted to find you a picture of Matthew Fox in his seminal role of Charlie Salinger. Um, the first time I had a crush on him, despite his mushroom cut at times he was

Theresa 44:13

on that show. Weird.

Amanda 44:14

Oh yeah. Oh, he was dreamy. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. What does is Jennifer? Yeah, Jennifer Love Hewit was for sure on it. Right? Hold on.

Kip 44:22

Wasn't she? I'm certain Nev Campbell was,

Amanda 44:24

was Ne Campbell for sure. Melrose Place was 92 to 99. I was closer on that one. Wow. Which is weird cause I didn't even wanna grow up Anyway, the point is we went down such a rabbit hole here, but the real, but I completely agree. Yeah, it was like late season party of five Charlie Salinger vibes.

Theresa 44:43

Yeah, I'll just look up the photo myself. Cause you did not show that

Amanda 44:46

Well, I can only find like more later ones where he just basically looks exactly the same cuz it ended. Oh, do.

Theresa 44:52

Let's see. Let's see. That is a nineties look if I've ever seen one.

Amanda 44:54

I know. That's what I was thinking of. Oh, that is hundred percent. It's screaming JTT. Yeah. Well that was the nineties JTT. That's what every Dreamboat boy looked like in 1995. Middle part. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, the middle part. Can you, do you get a middle part going?

Kip 45:10

I'm dying to get a middle part. Please don't. Oh, I wanna relive my nineties. Please. Anyway,

Amanda 45:14

so the, the other important part of the flashback is we get to see Julie Bowen. Is that her name? Julie Bowen. Yep. I love her.

Kip 45:22

Yeah, she's great. And Dan was like Julie Bowen's in this. Yeah. It was great to see.

Amanda 45:27

Yeah. So this was kind of in her middle phase of like, she's done Ed, I think what's Ed? Ed was the show that she was on this is actually now just in nineties, early 2000. Wait, what was Ed? Ed had Tom Kavanaugh, the guy, the bat My grade 10 science teacher looked exactly like, um, Julie Bowen's character in. Ed. Ed,

Theresa 45:50

We didn't go to school with you,

Amanda 45:51

Carol, what was her name?

Theresa 45:53

We never went to school with you. Like we dunno.

Amanda 45:56

Okay. Well she looked like Carol

Kip 45:58

Okay. This is outta control. We need to reign in the other TV show talk and go back to Lost. You started I know I did. I, I take responsibility

Theresa 46:05

I looked up Ed and it came up with erectile dysfunction. So annoying.

Kip 46:10

Okay. Um, anyway, so. Jack party. Five major drama going on cuz he doesn't know if he should marry. This girl can't write his vows. I thought it was cute. The scene on the piano.

Amanda 46:21

Yeah, it's really cute. I mean, so he's marrying this girl, which is quite the, you know, well because you don't, he's never, has he ever mentioned being

Kip 46:30

No. No. Right. And they kind of try to throw you for a loop at that first scene because his, what we've come to learn is his best man putting on in the suit and Jack's saying, you know, you can still kinda, you can get out of this if you want. Yeah. Kind of like throw you, make you think he's the groom. And then we find out, Jack's the groom and everyones like, whoa. Like you say P.

Theresa 46:50

Yeah. That was not a, for me, to me it was very clear that he was the groom.

Amanda 46:54

Oh, I didn't think, no. I even forgot for a second about Sarah. Yeah.

Theresa 46:59

For me, like when people do conversations like that, it's clearly like the opposite of what you're supposed to

Amanda 47:04

Yeah. It's a bit of a trope for sure. Yeah. That's why I was like, oh he's,

Kip 47:06

well I fell, ran into it.

Amanda 47:07

Me too. I, I fall into most classic TV shows.

Kip 47:10

Yeah. So, and we kind of hear him or see that he looks, and he's, I guess, concerned that his dad's not gonna come. No. Mention of mom, but No,

Amanda 47:19

I mean, like, have you met that woman, Margo? Would you be excited to meet her or have her come anywhere? So I do think, but it is supposed to be kind of like a glass shattering moment, right? Yeah. So we're, and now the question, and then I think what it sets up for is this idea, like, cuz he's kind of waffling mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So is this gonna turn out to be like a wedding, like a, a near miss wedding or like a past relationship? And then throughout it we see him struggling and then his dad eventually, And he is able to do his vows and he gets married. Yeah. So then the question at the end of the flashback, what happened? Is he married? Yeah. If he's not, what happened? Does Kate know? Does Kate know?

Kip 47:55

No, she doesn't know. Nobody knew until now. But like a couple things on, on these flashbacks. So when Jack's dad joins him at the pool and he starts reading the vows I went in a different direction where he's like reading like, you are the wind beneath my wings. And the sky falls when you went to the room or whatever it was, I thought Jack's dad was gonna say, wow, these are horrible. Yeah, I thought so too. You need to work on these. But then like they were Sarahs and they were quote beautiful. I thought that was kind of funny.

Amanda 48:29

It was, it was. And like his dad was like, nice in these moments. I know. Because that's the other thing is like, where are we oriented in. I don't, we don't know.

Theresa 48:38

That's a thing about these, right? Like they're just, you just know it's not now.

Amanda 48:42

And so is it 10 years ago? Is it five years ago? Is it a year ago?

Kip 48:47

Well, cuz they've really strayed from the, what's happened leading up to the flight. Right? Right. Because that was sort of the first half of the season, even a little bit. Well, even with Hurleys we saw it was sort of what led him to Australia. But, but because this is now Jack's what, third flashback? Yeah. Mm-hmm. So we're, we're just sort of getting flashback scenes to kind of learn more about him, who he is as a character. Yeah.

Amanda 49:11

So we don't know how far before the kind of downfall with his dad is, or maybe it was after that and they've repaired the relationship, but, well, no, we know that. Well we know, we know that it wasn't repaired ultimately. Yeah. But we don't know if there's like ebbs and flows to that or that's whatever. I'm just like, we do know and I'm sure that wouldn't be what it is, but I'm just kind of saying,

Kip 49:30

but we just, we have no idea when it would be.

Amanda 49:32

Um, And so then we kind of see that his issue with this marriage isn't her. Cause I think, I don't know about you guys, but I was kind of being like, like, like does he wanna marry this?

Kip 49:40

I know. Mm-hmm. even up to his vows, you're like, oh my God.

Theresa 49:42

And then just gonna leave her at alter with the way that it starts. Whose vow start like that. I

Amanda 49:47

know. But then this idea that, you know, she, he didn't fix her. She Or save her. Yeah. She saved him. She saved him. It was beautiful. Right? Mm-hmm. And really you begs the question like, what is happening here?

Kip 49:59

Well, I don't know, maybe, maybe I'm reading into things, but when they kiss and everyone's clapping, they zoom to Jack's dad, I kind of got the feeling he was kind of giving this look like, cuz he kind of like glances around. It was almost like he's thinking to himself, it's ain't gonna last. You know? Like it looked like he had doubts of what was happening.

Amanda 50:17

But I think because the, the issue and I think why we're seeing this flashback now, cause again, we've talked about it before. There's a reason we see the flashbacks when we see them. Mm-hmm. right. and you know, with Sawyer's most recent flashback and this like failure at getting the pig tied in with the fact that he didn't kill the right person with his dad. Like we're, see we're, we're being taught a lesson usually about them. That ties into why they're acting the way they are on the island. And so what I think we're seeing here is that Jack is invested too much in everything. Everything to the point where he's so invested in this idea of saving her and like all this stuff, like he can't even get through his vows.

Kip 51:01

He's unsure if he should be marrying her because he's so invested thinking he's even realizing it. Yeah. Like, am I just wanting to marry her because I feel connected cuz I saved her? Right. Or do I actually love her? Like he's questioning it himself. Mm-hmm.

Amanda 51:15

Right. And that's why like when we do get a little bit more of that, it's gonna make a bit more sense. Mm-hmm. at the end of it, the question I still kind of have is like, is that why you're marrying her? And when it's kind of threaded through this on island, which can only be described as mayhem of trying to save Boone. Mm-hmm. we see that he does not make the best decisions when his feelings are mixed up with Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. His job. So, agreed. Let's talk about that. What, what are we seeing with Boone and Jack on this island? It is chaotic.

Kip 51:52

Well, we've seen a kind of chaotic relationship from the beginning in that Boone immediately wanted to be Jack's right hand man. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. and Jack kind of shunned him at first. Um, actually really shunned him at first. Told him he should give his license back Um, but like they Boones tried to be Jack's helper. And then it's interesting how we ended up seeing Boone become. John Locke's helper. Mm-hmm. And like, that's a very interesting sort of dynamic that Boone was immediately drawn to Jack as the helper, but he just as Jack sort of spurned his advances in a way, he, he sort of like kind of drifted towards Locke.

Amanda 52:40

Yeah. Boone was always trying to find a way to contribute and be helpful and find his place among people on the island. And you're right, that's what he did with Locke and it killed him. Yeah. Right.

Kip 52:51

And now I don't know if maybe Jack's feeling a little bit of guilt being like, maybe he's running through some of those moments in his mind being like, why was I kind of just mean to this kid? Like he was just trying to help and now here he is, if I had maybe just taken him a bit more under my wing, that kind of thing. Mm-hmm. like maybe those things are going through his mind, and now he feels like he needs to be super incredibly invested in saving Boone's life where he makes this ridiculous promise.

Amanda 53:15

Yeah. And that's the thing is like he starts off, like, he makes that promise prematurely. Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. He's in rough shape. And he says kind of when he's talking about the blood transfusion, which, um, is really, that comes, so he resets the leg is kind of the first major Oh yeah. Intervention say, for lack of a better word. Like, he's obviously working on him and like covering his wound and like whatever, sewing him up at one point. Yeah. But his most, the first like, big intervention is that he has to reset that leg. And, um, that's,

Kip 53:48

can I just, like, what is, what does that mean?

Amanda 53:50

So I'm, I'm guessing I don't know much about it. So there's fractures in it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And he's just resetting, he's realigning the bones.

Kip 53:58

Oh, right. Okay. Mm-hmm. that's why that big kind of twist and snap, right?

Amanda 54:02

Yeah. So the idea being that then I think it, I think ultimately, Even though it's tough getting there, I do think it alleviates some of the pain, probably. Yeah. And it needs to be that way to heal. Helps to heal. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I think the concern, which ultimately proves to be like maybe warranted is that when it's like not set properly, it could be like puncturing things and like causing I see issues. Yeah. I'm not a doctor clearly. I dunno,

Kip 54:29

No, but that makes more sense.

Amanda 54:30

But, so they had to reset the leg and that's obviously very painful. Um, and then the next major intervention we're gonna see is this blood transfusion oh Jack... Right.

Kip 54:41

Like, it, it sounds ridiculous that he's gonna do a blood transfusion fusion in the middle of a jungle. Mm-hmm. but at the same time it's very in line with who Jack is in that he will try literally anything.

Amanda 54:53

He cannot let go look. No, it is kind of reminiscent of like him working on the Marshall, the right. Yeah. Like the, this idea that he will, you know, There's, so I think there's a re, let's, let's just say this, we'll kind of skip to this. I think there's a reason why the episode is called Do No Harm, because they're supposed to do everything they can. And I can't remember if it's like Grey's Anatomy or this, whatever, one of those shows where they like make someone do a bunch of stuff that they're not supposed to. Like, they just keep making them work on someone. Work on someone, work on someone. Mm-hmm. And it's like fruitless, fruitless, fruitless. And I think it is Grey's Anatomy. It is, yeah. And it's, yeah, it's, I think it's Teddy with Christina, right?

Theresa 55:31

No, it's Owen in April.

Amanda 55:33

Oh, right. And so the idea is like, and then the like lesson at the end is we do that so that when you walk out of the room and you talk to that person, you can say, and mean, we did everything we could. Mm-hmm. Um, so that's what they're supposed to do. They're supposed to do everything they can, but there's also a reason that the beginning or wherever it is in the Hippocratic Oath is that they're to do no harm because. Sometimes doing that much is actually causing more harm. It's detrimental, right? Mm-hmm.

Theresa 56:01

Yeah. Well, you're gonna chop off someone's leg like,

Amanda 56:03

well, yeah, that's, even when we get to that, that's fucked. But like even this idea, like he's like, we can, like, he's lost a lot of blood. We don't know how long, like he's starting to ask questions when he's talking about the blood transfusion that he needs to be asking. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. because he's right. He doesn't know how long they've been out there. He doesn't know how much blood he's lost. Like he's in very rough shape. Yeah. And you have no way to properly diagnose what's wrong with him. Exactly.

Kip 56:29

Do Okay. Question for both of you. Do you know your blood type? No. No, no. Me neither. And that's what this episode made me realize.

Amanda 56:37

So I don't, I've never given blood

Theresa 56:38

and that's why it was like when Charlie was tasked to like, go whatever, and he's like, I thought you were supposed to be getting me blood tested. He's like, I did. They, they don't know.

Amanda 56:46

Danna used to always try to convince me to give blood. And then one of the things to try to convince me was like, they'll tell youre blood type. I'm like, great thanks

Kip 56:57

fyi. I would give blood if I could.

Amanda 56:59

I tried. I would too. I can't give it either. I tried

Theresa 57:01

but I, I'm anemic. So then they sent me back and they're like, come back. So I keep going back and they're like, you're still on eic? I'm like, okay, I'll be back. I will try again.

Kip 57:10

But yeah, so that was an interesting moment too cuz it was like, yeah, most people don't, that I know of, don't know their blood type. So I liked that moment with Charlie being like I Very realistic. Yeah, exactly. Nobody knows. Yeah.

Amanda 57:22

I also like that Jack talked, cause you always hear about this like universal donor thing. Mm-hmm and how like that's the best blood to get. But I kinda like how Jack was like, well it is but there's still like something. Exactly. It's not perfect. It's not. And I was like, I like that cuz they do a lot of like cross typing stuff and I think in like, you always hear that so

Kip 57:38

well and like, yeah. Like he says it. Could help him or it could kill him. He could reject it. Like it was nice to hear that, not just like, yes, it's this miracle.

Amanda 57:45

Yeah. Like I, I don't know if they, like, they must have a good medical consult on the show because they must, they, they always seem to say the right things or at least they sound like the right one. So they have either a really good medical consult or consult consulter consultant, or just really good writing, which we know they have that at least. But um, yeah. So then this idea, he's like, what is he using it first?

Theresa 58:09

Like, uh, he was getting mad at the bamboo.

Kip 58:11

It was bamboo.

Amanda 58:12

Bamboo, right. Because it wasn't working.

Theresa 58:14

He's like, all I have is ba I need something that goes hollow. Yeah. Point Dan all, I was bamboo and

Kip 58:19

I loved Jack's like, Sun, did you find Shannon? And she's like, no, I was getting this like flat. No I wasn't. I was getting you this.

Amanda 58:26

And again, resourceful moment number 400 on Sun. Exactly. Yeah. Very cool. Um, and you can tell what I really like about that. Well, I like a lot of things about it, but my favorite part about it is like, she's kind of telling him at first like, you're insane mm-hmm. for wanting to do this. But then she does ultimately yeah. Make it work. If

Kip 58:45

you're, if she sees he's for real, gonna do it, okay, then I'm gonna find something

Amanda 58:49

so what I like about that though, this whole idea that Sun, Sun thought he was crazy at first. But then was like, okay, like I see what he's doing. Mm-hmm. I see what, where he is going with this and he's gonna do it. I'm gonna help and I'm gonna do the best I can, kind of thing. That seems to be the working. And then we get into, you know, later the thing Theresa brought up, which is this leg, this amputation of the leg. And so he realizes that he has compartment syndrome, which means all the blood is pooling where the fracture was and the leg is gotta go. Yeah. And it's around this time I think that he realizes that something else happened than what, Locke described.

Kip 59:30

He, what does he say? He says like, um, this isn't from a fall. His legs were crushed, his legs were crushed. And is this when he says someone go find Shannon.

Amanda 59:41

Around that time. But also this is when he says someone go find Michael. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, you know, like, I don't know about you guys, but when he said Go find Michael, I was like, what does he need Michael for?

Kip 59:53

I know it was weird for me at first too.

Theresa 59:55

Same here. I'm like, are they gonna, like how does this work? Do raise the leg? Is he gonna build like a contraption to like raise it? Maybe it'll dip back.

Amanda 1:00:02

Like, but what I, I really like the way, like what I said, I think they must have a good medical con consultant. I can consultor say a word, a consolidator. Um, I don no it's not. Well maybe, um, they like, to me, he didn't die originally in the crash fall plane thing. He has a few injuries. You can't really think, but ultimately it's like the fact that they don't have what they need to save him. Mm-hmm. like he very well could have maybe saved him if they were in a hospital in Los Angeles. Oh, definitely. Because I think ultimately what really gets him is this leg thing.

Kip 1:00:42

Well, and I think we're led to infer that had he been given the proper information, he wouldn't have, have voiced so much time trying to do other things when he probably could have focused on what actually happened to Boone.

Amanda 1:00:54

Right. And that's why he, and that's why it's so funny because when you go to a doctor, you go to the emergency room, they ask you like 400 million questions and you're like, okay, can you just like look at like, I don't know about you guys, but I'll, I'll be sitting there being like, okay, yeah, here's the 90th question you're asking me. Like, can you do something, look at at me, can you, whatever. And you realize that it's because they need to know what happened. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. And this is a private, cuz you're right, that's exactly what probably happened is he's thinking he fell so he like, probably landed on his stomach or his back and like maybe there's internal injuries there. Mm-hmm. But being crushed means that the, he might not even, like, again, I'm not a doctor, but maybe he wouldn't have reset it. Maybe he wouldn't have like Yeah, exactly. Right. Exactly. Um, so it's, it's crazy to think of that. Right. But. so they get Michael.

Kip 1:01:38

Okay. Should we talk about that now? Well, we, we've completely skipped over Shannon and sayid.

Amanda 1:01:45

I wish to continue to skip over Shannon. No, you're right. We have to talk about it. They're off on some sort of, how would you describe what they're doing?

Theresa 1:01:54

Awkward make-out session?

Kip 1:01:57

I don't know. I didn't find it negative in any way.

Theresa 1:01:59

No, I just don't like, I just don't think they have any chemistry.

Amanda 1:02:03

I just think it's still like, I think the romantic part of it, like I appreciate them in kind of like doing this French thing. I think the transition to romance was like somewhat unorganic.

Kip 1:02:14

Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. But in this instant, I actually thought it was a, an interesting moment because we're, we're, we've had 30 ish days on the island now, and 41 to 42, no. Mm-hmm. Yeah, good Lord. I'm 10 days behind so we've had 40 days on the island and there's been these moments where people just wander off and do things with no accountability. Mm-hmm. like you said in your, in your, in your moment, like, don't you tell someone and how many times have we heard, Hey, where's so and so? I don't know. They're off in the woods and it's like, now we're seeing, there's maybe you should start telling people because look what's happened. Yeah. Not that she could have saved Boone, but she should have been there. It could have been there with him when Yeah, yeah. You know, and it's not her fault and it's certainly not Sayid's fault. No, not at all. And like, it was just like, it was super sad to, to see like them wanting to have a positive, like sort of happy joyous night together. And because of that and this idea that people can just wander off and come and go as they please, despite Hurley's best intentions of having some sort of system in place. You know, now there's a terrible consequence for that.

Amanda 1:03:26

Yeah. And like no way to find her.

Kip 1:03:29

No, no way. Who knows where they would be.

Theresa 1:03:32

And that's why it's so weird because there are monsters, people killing people. Just the natural environment, people drowning. Yeah. You know what I mean? And you guys are not telling each other like you don't know who's where.

Kip 1:03:44

Yeah. And like, I don't know if they are just, it's just like with who burned down the raft, are they just assuming despite what John Locke said, that Ethan was just this one off random guy who was trying to kill that

Amanda 1:03:58

They have no idea where he came from. Where he like, I know. Yeah. Like they, to be honest, they have like, They can't think that there's just one person out there who was able to infiltrate mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. like, I guess maybe cuz Danielle was off by herself. It's not completely out of the realm of possibility, but this is not Danielle. No. This is like a concentrated Yeah. Like

Theresa 1:04:22

at the state of them. Like Danielle looks like she's been there for 16 years. Yeah. Ethan looks like he was in a plane crash.

Kip 1:04:29

Well, and like, I mean, and like you say, the monster that Sure it hasn't been heard of in a while. No one's heard from them, but I kind of don't think you're gonna forget about something that's crashing down the jungle and screaming.

Theresa 1:04:41

There's also polar bears, there's so many, so many things on this island and y'all are just running around Willynilly not telling anybody where you are. Yeah.

Amanda 1:04:50

I did think it was cute that like, she kind of was like telling him he wanted, she wanted to take it slow and he was like, you know, like that was like a cute moment

Kip 1:04:59

between that it was cute and like, yeah. Okay. She. Like says, you know, my brother's kind of in love with me. I mean, she's That's true though. Yeah. Like, she's not,

Theresa 1:05:09

it is. I just thought the timing was weird because they were making out, and then she's like, I have to tell you that my brother's in love. I'm like, why are you thinking about this right now? Just,

Kip 1:05:16

well, she's feeling a little guilty probably.

Amanda 1:05:18

I think she's just, I think what, what I got from that scene and just the whole thing and about wanting to take it slow and this and that was like, Shannon's trying to do this differently than she normally does.

Kip 1:05:27

Exactly. She's trying to be, have her fresh start. Like she's,

Amanda 1:05:30

and I like that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I just don't believe in their romance. No. I do think it's a bit inorganic. Yeah. Um, but yeah. So then at some point, Michael comes and they're, it becomes clear with what they're working on mm-hmm. and then we see Sun kind of starting to understand what mm-hmm. what the plan is. What the plan is. And it's just as you realize, you kind of realize it with Sun. Yeah. Like he doesn't actually say it at first. Uhuh. Um, And, uh, yeah. One kind of thing before we get there that I wouldn't mind saying is mm-hmm. I just forgot. Cause I was gonna, I have a lot of very specific thoughts on this, like leg scene. Mm-hmm. Um, but when I went to look at it, I had made a note that Jack looks like crap during the infusion or, yes. Transfusion. Sorry.

Theresa 1:06:17

Yeah, because he is, he's replenishing

Kip 1:06:20

and Hurley says, you a goth man. Like,

Amanda 1:06:24

but like, and maybe that's a part of it. Maybe like some of the decision making is that's off. Yeah, that's true. Because he's literally pouring, as Charlie said, pouring his, um, so what I like, there's lots of things about this scene that I like, but the first is that it's, it's juxtaposed with that flashback of his dad telling him that he has a hard time letting go. Yeah. Mm-hmm. because that's so apparent here. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. This is a terrible idea. Mm-hmm. and. We talked a little bit before, but when Sun is like looking at him, she's like imploring him with her eyes, like begging him, like, don't do this. You can feel it. Not like it's, she's, I know we said this a couple episode, but she's such a good actress. Mm-hmm. I literally get chills when she's staring at him. Yeah. Like, she's like begging him. Right. And then she shows him that Boone is coughing up blood. Yeah, exactly.

Theresa 1:07:20

So he is now also bleeding internally

Kip 1:07:22

Yeah. And that's what she says, right? Like, and she's trying to reason with him. Mm-hmm. trying to like show him actual talk sense into him. Mm-hmm. like, he's not being sensible. No, not at all.

Amanda 1:07:33

And so we, we kind of see this like, she's imploring him with her and then, and like showing him like, you, like we can't do like this, this scene is like the episode for me. Mm-hmm. like, and then she straight up starts begging him to stop. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And then he says,

Kip 1:07:49

The infamous words, I, I totally forgot. He yells out to, don't tell me what I can't do.

Amanda 1:07:53

Mm-hmm. And so we get a, a secondary layer here because we're seeing so much of Jack here. Mm-hmm. Okay. We're seeing so much of Jack and his inability to let go, which we've seen bits and pieces of, with the Marshall, with Kate, with whatever. But it's, it's so apparent here and then it's now tied into this idea of like, him saying what Locke is famous for saying Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so again, not trying to make any spoilers. I think it's very clear at this point that Jack and Lock are very important characters and that they view things differently. But there is this kind of idea that, like they view things differently, but fundamentally they're quite similar. They're similar. Right. Exactly. And so I just think that, that, that whole, I even get goosebumps thinking of that now, that whole scene and then Sun walks away. Yeah. Cuz she's not gonna be a part of this.

Kip 1:08:43

No. But I'm sorry, I shouldn't laugh, but like when Jack says, Michael, you don't have to be here for this I was expecting Michael to be like, no man, I'm here for you. I'm here to me over there, or whatever, whatever. and I, I did. But I mean obviously that had to happen. Right? So Jack Boone could have his talk with Jack, right? Yeah.

Amanda 1:09:08

And I did make a note kind of after all that to say, is this because he's partially delirious with like this like, or does he actually think this is,

Theresa 1:09:14

I think he would've done it either way. Cuz like when you think about the Marshall, the Marshall was gonna die. There was no way, he was not gonna die. He had infection, high fever, he was impaled, just a hot, like he was not living. And like he couldn't even, at the end, he could not let him go. Right? Like the guy was clearly dying. And at this point I think that it's kind of the same, it's very clear from the time that you see like Boone's not getting any better, he's not taking the blood. Compartment syndrome. He's now bleeding internally. I'm not a doctor. I've watched a lot of Grays. He also has a collapsed lung, let's not remember that. That's right. He also has open wounds that they just sewed together with whatever string they found. Like he's not gonna live through this. And so him going this far, I think he genuinely, even if he hadn't given all that blood, would've been like, we can try this.

Kip 1:10:02

I'm not, I, I do agree with you mostly, but I also feel like with the Marshall, the worst he was doing was using an excess amount of their supply of pills. Yeah. Right. Like, and I think that was the point with that was like, how much are you going to use on him? Who's a hopeless case at the expense of being able to use that on us, who are eventually might need it. Whereas here it's like, Yeah. Like that's an extreme to cut. Try to chop off his leg using a, whatever that, a luggage compartment of a, I didn't know what that was like of the plain fuselage. Just bits.

Amanda 1:10:43

It was so barbaric. Mm-hmm. And it was so misguided and like, what was the solution? What was the plan after that? Yeah. Well, how is he gonna stop the bleeding? Exactly. How is he going to,

Theresa 1:10:55

well, I mean, there's only one way I could think

Amanda 1:10:57

of he was gonna burn it. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's

Theresa 1:10:59

before you use that special, you know, you burn it. Or you also use Locke's, special paste the flu

Amanda 1:11:08

that

Kip 1:11:09

past. Yeah. If Locke had been there, could a used some of that paste,

Amanda 1:11:12

I thought the same thing, like, he's just gonna try to cauterize it, but like, but come on. It's, and also I think we all know like, you know, maybe it's an exaggeration, but in, in pop culture in particular, like coughing up blood is like, there's a reason she showed him that. Like, it's done. He's done. Mm-hmm. Yeah. He's, you can't save him. Exactly. So you're going to torture him Uhhuh before he dies. Yeah. And so, and the thing is, he would have done it. Yeah. If Boone did,

Kip 1:11:39

if Boone didn't wake up, he would've done it.

Amanda 1:11:41

For sure. And that so sad, like Boone like you're the doctor. Mm-hmm. And you're being told by your patient, the dying man that it's time Yeah. To let go. Exactly. He's letting him out of his promise. Mm-hmm.

Theresa 1:11:56

that was just, ugh, my heart broke.

Amanda 1:11:58

And so then,

Kip 1:11:59

so yeah, he lets him go and Boone dies and

Amanda 1:12:05

it's fucking heartbreaking. It is heartbreaking. So sad.

Kip 1:12:09

But on the flip side, we have Claire's baby being born

Amanda 1:12:14

and we touched a little bit on all the kind of like fun that goes through that, but to just kind of like recap a little bit. Jack can't help her. Mm-hmm. And I think he made the right choice and staying to help Boone because although misguided, he still could have done a lot to help and try and comfort him. And, and, and Kate having to deliver the baby is, is very interesting. Um, and then with the Jin and Charlie's stuff is cute. So eventually Claire who feels she can't do this, does deliver. Mm-hmm. the cutest little Bibi. Mm-hmm.

Theresa 1:12:47

just a big baby. Big baby.

Kip 1:12:49

Yeah. And I, I thought like it was good to see, not good, but it was interesting to see Claire's fear, fears coming out and her like saying things like, she's not, like, baby's not gonna want me because he's gonna know I wanted to give him away. Mm-hmm. I love that. You know, and she's just afraid and yeah, I'm getting. When you're talking Yeah. Like all these fears that you'd think she would've been feeling and she was probably just hiding it very, very well or fi suddenly coming out because obviously it's really real and it's coming and Kate does, I think a great job in helping and the um, the scene at the end with them all on the beach sort of being introduced to the baby is, is really sweet.

Amanda 1:13:29

I have to say that, and I made a note of this, so the scene talking about where Claire is saying the baby won't want her cuz it knows that she didn't want him. Yeah. Um, and Kate's pep talk and asking her if she wants it now. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Is very, very cute. And her saying that the baby is all of ours. Yeah. Um, and I did note that this is my favorite Kate scene probably in the whole show.

Kip 1:13:51

Yeah. It was really good.

Theresa 1:13:52

I like that it was her that was doing it too. Just cuz like Claire only has literally like a handful of interactions. Mm-hmm. I, I wouldn't have wanted to see Charlie do that. Like, that would be like really weird. And like Jack obviously, like he's the doctor, so like, whatever. But it just meant more that it was like the one other person who like actually talked to

Kip 1:14:11

her. Yeah. They have somewhat of a friendship Yeah. That we've seen. Right.

Amanda 1:14:14

And Kate's resourceful. Mm-hmm. like, I trust Kate. Mm-hmm. I don't love her as we know, but I trust, but in a moment like that, that she can, like if I had to choose one of the people on that island to help deliver my baby in the middle of the woods, Kate would be close to the top, if not the second person. Yeah. It'd be like Jack's Sun, Kate. Yeah. Right. Oh yeah. So, and like, or, and

Theresa 1:14:39

or Sayid would probably be up there for, oh no, I don't know. I feel like he's, he is, he's also resourceful, but like, in a different way. Like, I feel like he wouldn't even think twice about what's happening.

Amanda 1:14:49

Yeah. I dunno. I think a lot of people could do it if they absolutely had to. Exactly. I don't think, but I love that scene. Mm-hmm. I love that scene. And then, yeah, like you said, we, we get it and, and it's. I mean, you can YouTube just this scene too.

Kip 1:15:01

Well. So let's just talk about the real winner slash most horrible thing of this episode.

Theresa 1:15:10

Sun pulling out the IV?

Kip 1:15:13

No. Cause that was gross,

Theresa 1:15:16

cuz that was messed up.

Kip 1:15:17

This right here.

Amanda 1:15:19

Okay.

Theresa 1:15:19

Oh no. Oh God.

Amanda 1:15:23

Oh it's here?

Theresa 1:15:24

No, stop. I'm chill. I'm chill.

Kip 1:15:34

Fucking music.

Amanda 1:15:35

This song is what's gonna play at my funeral. Yeah, It might today.

Kip 1:15:41

As soon as this started, like tears.

Amanda 1:15:45

I'm tearing up now. Yeah.

Theresa 1:15:46

I'm not tearing up, but I do have chills everywhere.

Kip 1:15:48

Oh, I cried. Yeah. When this starts. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's just brutal. Yeah, that's a, it's amazing

Theresa 1:16:00

though. It is so palpable Cause you hear it throughout the show in like random, like

Amanda 1:16:05

Yeah. I was trying so hard not to cry that I made myself sneeze.

Kip 1:16:10

just let it out. Yeah, it's fine. But no like it that, that music is just like instant tears for me and just so well done. Like you say, when Jack goes, when he sees Sayid and Shannon coming back and he goes in to tell her and everything, it's just like, Mmm. No, it's brutal.

Theresa 1:16:35

It's, it's rough.

Amanda 1:16:37

The most emotional manipulation. That No kidding. But it is. And the whole scene is silent. But for the music, music, yes. The music. Right.

Theresa 1:16:44

Which is even more powerful. I don't need to hear someone crying. No, I literally,

Kip 1:16:50

no, me too. Well, and Maggie Grace's performance I think was super well done. And I thought realistic just in like, the way she, the way that Shannon cried in that moment, like, no, we didn't hear it, which I agree was good, but just like, just that I felt the outpouring of emotion that a sister, a step or otherwise would've felt.

Theresa 1:17:12

Yeah. And then when the Sayid, like kind of mm-hmm. like he's like trying to hold her hand or something. She like pushes him away and she like, can't believe what's happening. Yeah. It's like, whoa.

Amanda 1:17:20

Well, and that's the thing is like, it's so, like Jack, I think you said it in your stream of consciousness or like Jack's face crumbling. Mm-hmm like the acting in this episode from, from Jack's like mania to saving of saving him to that like just raw emotion and knowing he has to go and tell her because at the end of the day, that's still his. and like, I don't even think everyone knows at this point that Boone's dead. I don't. But when he walks over to Shannon and Kate's watch, like, I'm getting goosebumps. I know I can picture the scene so well. I watched a million times on YouTube and everything. But, um, her watching him and knowing like the look she gives him, like the acting from, from Evangeline Lilly, the acting from everyone in this episode is so phenomenal. And it's just like, you don't have to hear that conversation because we know what

Kip 1:18:07

that, you know what it is exactly.

Amanda 1:18:09

We don't have to hear her crying because we know what it sounds like. Like you don't need to hear because we are all hearing it in our heads while that fucking manipulative music plays Exactly. And its. And you know what I love when we kind of touched upon this a bit before, um, I mean, first of all, just overall I think a couple, a theme. There's some overarching themes to this episode that are, again, maybe a little cliche, but like they work it. So this idea that we're losing. Mm-hmm. the first main character. Yes. I know we lost Steve or Scott or whatever, and the girl who drowned, but like this, the,

Theresa 1:18:41

Her name was Joanne, whatever. Jesus.

Amanda 1:18:44

Sorry, Teresa.

Theresa 1:18:45

And I don't know if it's Scott or Steve. Okay. Exactly. But this is the, this is

Kip 1:18:49

the first, first major character major character who

Amanda 1:18:51

died. Mm-hmm. juxtaposed against the first birth birth Yeah. Of a, of a character on the show. And Boone being the first person to die is so, I think important.

Kip 1:19:04

What, what? Like, how so?

Amanda 1:19:06

Because Boone was not maybe the most like central or integral character to it, but he kind of represent something, right? Mm-hmm. he represents like the, like innocent, kind of like you said, he wanted to help Jack, he wanted to do this. He never quite got it right. He got kind of hooked up with Locke because he wanted to be helpful and contribute and he was having issues with Shannon. Mm-hmm. And so we see. A just this kind of like innocent ish character. Lose his life here. Yeah. After. But more so we, we watch him lose his life after blindly following John Locke. Mm-hmm. And he's starting to question it towards the end is Yeah. Mm-hmm. and then, and then we lose his, his his, his storyline altogether. Um, so I think it's a very important first character. Like he's, it's meaningful. Uh, cuz you know, a lot of shows either go nowadays I find like they go for like shock value. If this was made in 2022, that would've been Jack. Yeah. Or they go with someone less important. Like they do more of those like secondary line characters. Yeah. But I think they kinda showed like, no one's safe, but like they wouldn't kill off like, the main, main characters and it was meaningful enough. Right. Cause like it was emotional. Yeah. Oh yeah. Right. And it was very difficult to watch Jack try in vain. To save this.

Kip 1:20:33

yeah, it was, and I mean it was interesting because, um, I was thinking about what Dan said last week about how these last few episodes have been so good. And, um, it's interesting for the reasons he was given giving in that everybody seemed to be kind of coming into their own. Everybody seemed to be, for the most part, getting along other than like Sun and Jin. Yeah. It was sort of like this buildup to things are kind of starting to even out and people are, they're getting a rhythm. Uh, you felt it in the way that episodes were, were being, um, presented. There was a rhythm happening that felt okay and now it's just gonna be blown apart. Mm-hmm. Correct. We see Jack at the end say, I mean a little over the top, my opinion. Okay. Yeah. Boone, what didn't die well, He was murdered. Well, yeah. He died.

Amanda 1:21:34

Didn't die like I was like, where is he going with this?

Kip 1:21:37

I know,

Amanda 1:21:38

and then I I You like how she's like do on top. Yeah. And, uh, I, I like that. Mm-hmm. Kate's good in these types of situations. Mm-hmm. Flawless. She's not

Theresa 1:21:46

flawless

Kip 1:21:47

hashtag katelife

Theresa 1:21:49

life. Oh yes.

Amanda 1:21:50

Right. Kate. Well, Dan's not allowed on this podcast. Uh, well,

Theresa 1:21:55

I like about his whole, like the, he didn't die. His murdered thing is, it's clear he. As much as he let go, he did not let go. Oh, good

Kip 1:22:04

point. You know what I mean?

Theresa 1:22:05

It's a great point. He's like, okay, he's gone, but I'm gonna kill this man.

Amanda 1:22:09

Oh my God. Jack's growing so much. He's learning to let go

Kip 1:22:14

See? Yeah. He just let go a different one. Totally, totally. Yeah. A hundred percent.

Amanda 1:22:19

Actually, when you think about it that way. I was gonna say, what I like about this is that it didn't just, cuz I forgot about that. Mm-hmm. And so I thought we were just gonna kinda like that music was gonna take us out. Right. Like that, that this last scene was gonna like. I think when Shannon is like crying over his body, I thought we were gonna fade the black. Right. Then again. Yeah. And so then to have that kind of additional scene of coming back to talking and then it being like this sort of like

Kip 1:22:45

quite

Amanda 1:22:46

dramatic Yeah.

Kip 1:22:47

very dramatic what is happening. Ending very dramatic. Yeah.

Theresa 1:22:51

And that's why for this consciousness, it ends with, Well, yeah, exactly. Because I was like, what the, what happened?

Amanda 1:22:58

And again, that leads back to my, and I did end up putting it at the end here, that it's very powerful. That Locke isn't in it. Exactly. Because we all, we don't know. Yeah. We do know what happened. Mm-hmm. and like, he obviously didn't murder him, but the reality is that like he is partially responsible for his death. Mm-hmm. And he's responsible for not telling Jack. I don't understand why he didn't tell him Me neither. What actually happened?

Kip 1:23:23

No, I don't either. I don't. And we, we talked about that last week and it still boggles my mind.

Theresa 1:23:33

Yeah. I don't really get it either.

Amanda 1:23:34

Like, why didn't you say we were, we were hunting boar. We came across a plane,

Kip 1:23:37

we found a fricking plane.

Amanda 1:23:38

Boone went in it to see if there was anything of value and it fell

Kip 1:23:41

Exactly. So easy.

Theresa 1:23:43

Yeah. Doesn't

Amanda 1:23:44

have to say anything about the hatch. No. Or the drugs or the radio. Even if he doesn't want to, which I don't know. You wanna, I

Kip 1:23:50

don't even think. Lock Jack or Locke knew about the radio, to be honest.

Amanda 1:23:54

But that is super simple. Yeah. Right. Yeah,

Kip 1:23:57

it was weird. So, I mean, you're right that he has culpability in that he was not forthcoming and truthful when he told Jack what happened. Mm-hmm. And I do believe that that led to how Jack, with the limited resources he had treated Boone. Yeah. And he, he could have been treated differently.

Amanda 1:24:13

Would it have a different outcome? We don't know. We

Dan 1:24:15

don't know.

Kip 1:24:15

But he could've. Yeah, exactly. Nope. So,

Theresa 1:24:18

but what I like about Lock not being there is, I feel like in the last few episodes, Locke has kind of, he, he hasn't been a big part of the episodes until he like, pops in for a hot minute and then he like dips out. Mm-hmm. So like when he's, who was he talking to? That he like, just came in, gave us some Lockeisms, and then Shannon never saw him. And then last time he was like building this cradle for like, oh,

Amanda 1:24:41

Claire. Claire, right?

Theresa 1:24:42

And so this whole time you're like, okay, so Locke's actually like a decent guy. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. He's helped so many people like realize, you know, their next steps. Yeah. But then like when it comes to Boone, he like helps him get over Shannon, which is fantastic. Great. Super. But then at this point, like the way to help Boone in that next step would be to exactly divulge that there was, he fell and a plane fell on him. Yeah. But also to just like be there because Locke is actually, he's so resourceful. Clearly we still don't know what he was doing with the all and the sand with the shoe and the boar hide. Right. But like he has a lot of skills too. So for him to be missing in that part, like made no exactly sense. But

Kip 1:25:26

like he could have been huge help. Yeah. Yeah.

Amanda 1:25:28

Yeah. I mean, to be fair, he did kind of help Boone realize his next step as well. The afterlife Oh, dear. Uh, and we're gonna hear more about Locke's thoughts on that. Mm-hmm. uh, and what that means for his journey.

Kip 1:25:42

Well,

Theresa's Character Rankings

Kip 1:25:43

I think, let's hear how Locke did. I'm curious because,

Amanda 1:25:48

because wasn't Locke at the top? Not last week.

Theresa 1:25:50

The thing is, remember Locke wasn't in this episode at all, but he wasn't

Kip 1:25:54

at the top last week, was he?

Theresa 1:25:56

Yes, he was. I believe he was. Shit. He was at the top last week, but yeah. So the, I know he was the week before. Yeah. The problem with Locke not being in the episode is I don't have a de tracking couldn't go on. I

Amanda 1:26:06

can we just talk for a second before you go into your rankings about how much the rankings demonstrate the, the unpredictability of the show as a whole. A hundred percent. Because Locke we're going along, going along, going along thinking Locke's great, great. He's getting better and better, better. And then now it's like, what the hell is he doing? Yeah. Yeah. Like, so I think it's a, I mean, it's fantastic system, but it's also an interesting way to track kind of. Everyone's storylines.

Theresa 1:26:34

He was at the top like four episodes in a row.

Kip 1:26:37

I know. It was crazy.

Theresa 1:26:39

So it's like, I mean, I'm not saying that he's not now, but like I said, the hard part is, is he.

Kip 1:26:46

All right, so let's hear the rankings starting from the bottom.

Theresa 1:26:50

So yeah, that's Michael and number 14. Okay. Um, with negative 1,420, then it's Shannon negative 805 Kate negative 140. Then Walt has 55 Boone Sweet sweet Boone. He ends in the positives, uh, with 110 Sayid, 350, uh, Jin 355, Sawyer 410 at number seven, Claire 580 at number six. Charlie number five at with 680. Hurley's at number four with 940. Then we have our top three. Jack is uh, there with 950. Locke has 995 and our current reigning lady Sun with a thousand

Kip 1:27:40

wow. Sun back at number one. She

Amanda 1:27:43

For SunnySide Up.

Theresa 1:27:44

I was like, honestly it was, it was the looks. Oh, the bite stick the urchin the ripping that thing out of his, his arm because he is, she's like, that's enough. Like this is, this is ridiculous. Yeah. Like she, if she wasn't there, this had could have been so much worse right off the bat.

Amanda 1:28:03

Really quickly, I, I don't know if I ever actually finished tying my thought altogether on the sun thing, which was that cuz she is great and so let's give her a few more minutes of honoring her. Um, what I like is the whole, like bringing the hollowed thing. when she thinks he's still like somewhat on the plane of reality, even if it's out there, she assists. Mm-hmm. But that's how, you know, like there's a lot of reasons why the leg thing was a bad idea, but one of the kind of clues is she went and looked for your fricking hollowed out urchin things. Yeah. For your blood transfusion. Mm-hmm. she's like, no, no. Like, she's like, this is, and you know, like it's a bad idea then. Mm-hmm. so like, she's, she's a, she's a great audience. Surrogate to this episode. Mm-hmm. she kind of feel the pulse of what's going on. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Theresa 1:28:51

She just stayed calm the entire time. Even when she was like begging him, she was still very much like, yeah, do not do this. You're crazy. Yeah. So Sun was really the MVP of this episode, for

Amanda 1:29:02

me. Oh yeah. The unsung hero.

Theresa 1:29:06

Unsung hero, yeah. If you capitalize the sun.

Kip 1:29:12

All right. So should we finish her off? Let's do it.

Theresa 1:29:15

Oh my God. I feel like you can't give anything less than like a high mark

Episode Rating

Theresa 1:29:21

because this is playing. Wow.

Amanda 1:29:22

Well, I'll start off. I'm giving it a 9.8. So this episode is perfect.

Theresa 1:29:28

What's, what's the point to,

Kip 1:29:29

not quite if it was 9.8.

Amanda 1:29:31

Well, I don't think, like I said, I think I, you have never say never, but you've given a 10 before. What? I give a 10 on

Theresa 1:29:37

Walkabout. I think there's,

Kip 1:29:39

I'm pretty sure there's been a 10,

Amanda 1:29:40

correct. I think we all, I, I'm pretty sure we all give walk

Theresa 1:29:44

walkabout. I think we were just on the high.

Kip 1:29:46

Okay, so 9.8.

Amanda 1:29:48

9.8. This episode's amazing. It's sad to lose Boone clearly, but the way Jack goes about it is some very in integral storytelling and we see a lot of character development on him, and we see the birth of Claire's baby. Uh, and it's just, it's an emotional, it's an emotional episode. And, uh, Boone's death is very important to a lot of things that happen going forward. I'll just say that Theresa?.

Theresa 1:30:19

Uh, I'm gonna give, uh, I'm gonna agree with IMDB on this one and give it an 8.9. I liked, I, I thought the episode was really good in, in capturing your emotions of the highs and lows of having, you know, this chaos on one side with a life ending and then the casting other side with the life coming into the world. I really liked seeing Jack's, um, kind of progression, cuz I know you were saying earlier, Kip, that like Jack. You know, was giving all his pill, all the pills, whatever. And they were like, how much are you gonna give to this guy before you like give up? And it's kind of the same here. Like, he was literally giving his blood, he was giving all of him. Wow. And it still wasn't enough. And he lets go only to not let go. So I think that was a nice little roundy rounds.

Kip 1:31:07

All right. Well I'll give it a 10. Why not? I think it's just a, one of the best episodes of the series. So yeah, I'm gonna be handing out tens probably more frequently than anybody else on this podcast. Very loose with my tens, very loose tens. But no, it was fantastic. Had me in all the fields, all the feels. Yeah,

Theresa 1:31:25

too many feels for me. So I think that's why I can't give it like a, a, a higher thing is cuz there's too many feels for me.

Kip 1:31:31

All right. Well thanks everybody for listening. We will.

Amanda 1:31:34

Um, and I feel like we have to leave it on a very solemn note.

Kip 1:31:38

Bye bye. Bye bye. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Let's Get Lost. Be sure to tune in next week wherever you listen to your podcasts and follow us on Instagram and Twitter at Let's Get Lost dot Pod. Links to our website and Patreon can be found in our profiles. Join our Patreon for only $3 a month for exclusive access and content like Spoiler Island. Be sure to get lost with us again. Next time bye,