Kip:
[00:00:12 - 00:00:24]
We're three best friends and we love lost. And we love talking, but even more so, we love talking about lost. So join us for some laughs, good conversation, and let's get lost together. 

Amanda:
[00:00:24 - 00:00:25]
You. 

Kip:
[00:00:28 - 00:00:31]
All right? Let's get lost together. Hello, everybody. 

Amanda:
[00:00:32 - 00:00:33]
Hello. 

Theresa:
[00:00:33 - 00:00:33]
Hi. 

Kip:
[00:00:34 - 00:00:45]
It's Kip. Amanda. Teresa. We're here again this week to talk about an episode of lost as normal. And this week we're talking about orientation. 

Kip:
[00:00:46 - 00:00:52]
And why don't we get a synopsis of it from somebody here at this table? 

Theresa:
[00:00:52 - 00:01:10]
It's me. Thank you for pointing me out, Amanda. So, episode three, orientation, written by Javier Grillo, Mark Swatch and Craig Wright. Directed by Kipper's favourite, Jack Bender. Kate damages the hatch computer in a struggle with Desmond. 

Kip:
[00:01:12 - 00:01:13]
I just never thought of it that way. 

Theresa:
[00:01:13 - 00:01:22]
No, me either. Desmond tells Jack and Locke how he arrived at the island and shows them a film detailing the Dharma initiative. Michael, Sawyer and jitter imprisoned with a woman they recognised from the airport. 

Kip:
[00:01:22 - 00:01:23]
Nope. 

Theresa:
[00:01:23 - 00:01:33]
Desmond flees the hatch, leaving Jack and unlock at odds said races to fix the computer in time to enter the numbers and quote unquote, save the world. 

Kip:
[00:01:34 - 00:01:37]
Oh, my God. Nope, that's not the case. 

Amanda:
[00:01:37 - 00:01:40]
Do they mean someone we recognise from the airport? 

Kip:
[00:01:40 - 00:01:44]
Maybe they must, because there's nothing. Nobody in that pit recognised? 

Amanda:
[00:01:44 - 00:01:45]
Not at that, no. 

Kip:
[00:01:45 - 00:01:45]
No. 

Theresa:
[00:01:45 - 00:01:51]
I mean, she's only had one interaction with one other cast member that we've seen, and it's Jack. Jack. 

Kip:
[00:01:51 - 00:01:51]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:01:51 - 00:02:05]
Well, to just put it in context, as I like to sometimes when they're that wildly misleading, Disney plus is right up. Which is, again, in Canada, where most people can stream, it is Sawyer, Michael and Jin wonder if their captors are the others. 

Kip:
[00:02:06 - 00:02:11]
That's a good one. But only half. They really only like to give you one side. 

Theresa:
[00:02:11 - 00:02:12]
Yeah, one line and one side. 

Amanda:
[00:02:12 - 00:02:14]
And arguably the B plot. 

Kip:
[00:02:14 - 00:02:15]
The B plot, for sure. 

Theresa:
[00:02:17 - 00:02:19]
Maybe 15 minutes of the whole episode. 

Kip:
[00:02:19 - 00:02:34]
Although I did not ever associate Kate as the one who damaged. I get it. Because it was her. She shot the gun, but it was actually Desmond's gun that shot the computer. Kate hit him and Desmond shot it, which hit the computer. 

Kip:
[00:02:34 - 00:02:36]
So it wasn't even Kate's gun. 

Amanda:
[00:02:36 - 00:02:37]
Kate's actions. 

Kip:
[00:02:37 - 00:02:37]
Kate's actions. 

Amanda:
[00:02:37 - 00:02:39]
Yeah, but again, I wouldn't say. 

Kip:
[00:02:39 - 00:02:41]
No, I wouldn't say Kate damaged the computer. 

Theresa:
[00:02:42 - 00:02:45]
It wasn't even a struggle. She hit him. They weren't fighting or anything. 

Kip:
[00:02:46 - 00:02:54]
Oh, you guys, we really need to figure out how to pronounce that guy's name. Yeah, Javier. Like we get that part. 

Theresa:
[00:02:54 - 00:03:06]
Yeah. And then Grillo. I think it's pretty grillo, what's the last one? It's the x. It's M-A-R-X-U-A-C-H-I can't google that, Marshall. 

Amanda:
[00:03:06 - 00:03:07]
I don't know. 

Kip:
[00:03:07 - 00:03:09]
It's got to be spanish of some sort. Javier. 

Theresa:
[00:03:09 - 00:03:14]
It's hyphenated, though. What if it's not? What if it's like. What if Grillo was the. 

Amanda:
[00:03:15 - 00:03:20]
Anyway, the important piece here is that Jack Bender, Kip's favourite, the director. 

Kip:
[00:03:20 - 00:03:25]
All right. Okay, so here's some quick goal stats. 

Amanda:
[00:03:25 - 00:03:25]
Okay. 

Kip:
[00:03:26 - 00:03:28]
Guess how many viewers in the millions? 

Amanda:
[00:03:29 - 00:03:29]
16. 

Kip:
[00:03:29 - 00:03:30]
No, way. Higher. 

Theresa:
[00:03:30 - 00:03:31]
18.2. 

Kip:
[00:03:32 - 00:03:32]
Higher. 

Amanda:
[00:03:32 - 00:03:33]
24. 

Kip:
[00:03:33 - 00:03:36]
Lower. 22.38 million viewers. 

Theresa:
[00:03:36 - 00:03:38]
What was it last week? 

Kip:
[00:03:38 - 00:03:39]
I don't know. Off the top of my head. 

Theresa:
[00:03:40 - 00:03:43]
It was pretty up there, though. Yeah, but it did take it. 

Kip:
[00:03:43 - 00:03:44]
Yes, I do. 23. 

Theresa:
[00:03:46 - 00:03:47]
Also. It's going down. 

Amanda:
[00:03:48 - 00:03:59]
That makes sense. The premieres always have really high viewership because people tune in for that. It's a good time of year, usually. And then the second episode was a cliffhanger, so people are going to want to see that. And then it's going to dwindle off. 

Kip:
[00:03:59 - 00:04:00]
It always does. 

Amanda:
[00:04:01 - 00:04:02]
Kind of the sweeps months. 

Kip:
[00:04:02 - 00:04:14]
And I think for lost, season two was sort of the last, like, 20 million ish average viewers. And then I think it was always below that. They lost a lot of viewers after season two. 

Theresa:
[00:04:15 - 00:04:17]
I can't even remember how season two ended. 

Kip:
[00:04:17 - 00:04:19]
This got an 8.7 out of ten on IMDb. 

Theresa:
[00:04:19 - 00:04:20]
Wow. 

Amanda:
[00:04:20 - 00:04:26]
It was actually kind of low. Spoiler alert, for my opinion, this is actually kind of low. It's a good episode. 

Kip:
[00:04:26 - 00:04:29]
And we're on days 45 to 40. 44 to 45 from the island. 

Theresa:
[00:04:29 - 00:04:30]
Perfect. 

Kip:
[00:04:30 - 00:04:41]
So I have some questions about Sawyer's nickname count. Okay. I counted four, but official sources say there was five. 

Theresa:
[00:04:41 - 00:04:43]
Okay, so we had cupcake. 

Kip:
[00:04:43 - 00:04:51]
Yeah. Shaftrian, sister and sweetheart. Which could or could not be. 

Theresa:
[00:04:51 - 00:04:51]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:04:51 - 00:04:54]
Hard to say, but I didn't hear this one. 

Theresa:
[00:04:54 - 00:04:56]
Are they talking about the nice Korean? 

Kip:
[00:04:58 - 00:05:02]
No. Okay, well, kind of quiet Korean. 

Theresa:
[00:05:02 - 00:05:02]
There it is. 

Kip:
[00:05:02 - 00:05:06]
But he supposedly calls Jin Chewy. 

Theresa:
[00:05:06 - 00:05:07]
When does that happen? 

Kip:
[00:05:08 - 00:05:16]
I watched it twice. I didn't hear it. But on, like, lostpedia and all these other, like, they say that he calls him chewy in this episode. 

Amanda:
[00:05:16 - 00:05:20]
Okay, if anyone hears chewy, tell us the marker in the episode. 

Kip:
[00:05:20 - 00:05:24]
Yeah, because I didn't hear it. Oh, we should have put the captions on it. 

Theresa:
[00:05:24 - 00:05:26]
Might have been just, like one of those things where he says. 

Kip:
[00:05:26 - 00:05:44]
Exactly. All right. Okay, so trivia, got your sounds ready. Okay. What set from another hit tv show at the time was the orientation film shot on? 

Amanda:
[00:05:47 - 00:05:52]
Oh, I don't know. I've never been stumped. Like I've always had something to say. 

Theresa:
[00:05:53 - 00:05:55]
What was popular at this time? 

Kip:
[00:05:56 - 00:05:56]
What time? 

Amanda:
[00:05:56 - 00:06:04]
Wash. Early 2005. Late 2005. 

Theresa:
[00:06:04 - 00:06:07]
That doesn't help me at all. I thought maybe that would give me a hint. 

Amanda:
[00:06:07 - 00:06:09]
What network was this? ABC. 

Kip:
[00:06:09 - 00:06:10]
ABC. 

Theresa:
[00:06:10 - 00:06:11]
ABC. 

Kip:
[00:06:11 - 00:06:12]
It was the same network. 

Amanda:
[00:06:12 - 00:06:14]
Yeah, I figured as much. 

Theresa:
[00:06:17 - 00:06:18]
Going up. 

Kip:
[00:06:19 - 00:06:26]
Okay, going up. I have a comment about that later. Okay, go. What's your guess? 

Amanda:
[00:06:26 - 00:06:30]
House? No, house is on Fox. 

Theresa:
[00:06:31 - 00:06:32]
I don't know what anything's on. 

Amanda:
[00:06:32 - 00:06:36]
Oh, one guess. Amanda Grey's Anatomy. 

Kip:
[00:06:36 - 00:06:40]
Wrong. Alias. JJ Abrams show. 

Theresa:
[00:06:40 - 00:06:41]
Oh, that makes sense. 

Kip:
[00:06:41 - 00:06:42]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:06:42 - 00:06:43]
Forgot that that was a show. 

Kip:
[00:06:43 - 00:06:48]
Okay, second question. What year was the orientation film from? 

Amanda:
[00:06:51 - 00:06:56]
It has to be past 1977, so I'm going to say 1980. 

Kip:
[00:06:57 - 00:06:59]
That's correct. It says it on the screen. 

Amanda:
[00:06:59 - 00:07:01]
I don't remember that. 

Kip:
[00:07:01 - 00:07:02]
What's the matter, Teresa? 

Theresa:
[00:07:02 - 00:07:05]
Nothing. I just wish I remembered things better. 

Kip:
[00:07:06 - 00:07:09]
Okay, I have another question. I hate it, though. 

Amanda:
[00:07:09 - 00:07:11]
No, we need a tiebreaker. 

Kip:
[00:07:11 - 00:07:12]
What? 

Theresa:
[00:07:12 - 00:07:13]
Tiebreaker. I have zero. 

Amanda:
[00:07:13 - 00:07:14]
I know, but I'd like another point. 

Kip:
[00:07:14 - 00:07:16]
Thank you, but you only have one point. 

Amanda:
[00:07:16 - 00:07:17]
I know. 

Kip:
[00:07:17 - 00:07:32]
Oh, you'd like. Okay, there are at least six visible books seen in the hatch. How many can you name? Bonus points if you can name the genre theme they all share. 

Theresa:
[00:07:32 - 00:07:33]
I can only name one. 

Kip:
[00:07:33 - 00:07:34]
Okay. What? 

Theresa:
[00:07:34 - 00:07:35]
Going up. 

Kip:
[00:07:35 - 00:07:36]
Going up. 

Theresa:
[00:07:37 - 00:07:38]
Taming of the shrew. 

Amanda:
[00:07:39 - 00:07:44]
I think you mean turning of the screw. Turning of a screw. Whatever. By Henry James, which. There it is. 

Kip:
[00:07:44 - 00:07:44]
Where? 

Amanda:
[00:07:44 - 00:07:45]
The Book. 

Theresa:
[00:07:47 - 00:07:48]
I just saw the tea and then the. 

Amanda:
[00:07:49 - 00:07:58]
So I do remember seeing something else. I can't remember what it was, but I remember thinking the theme is clearly like 19th century old english literature. 

Kip:
[00:07:58 - 00:07:59]
That's not the theme. 

Amanda:
[00:07:59 - 00:08:01]
Like being stuck somewhere? 

Theresa:
[00:08:01 - 00:08:05]
No, I never read turning of the screw. Or taming of the shrew, for that matter. 

Kip:
[00:08:05 - 00:08:07]
Is taming of the shrew a real book? 

Amanda:
[00:08:07 - 00:08:13]
It's a William Shakespeare play, which is why it's taming of the shrew. Turning of the screw. 

Kip:
[00:08:13 - 00:08:15]
And it's actually just called the turn of the Screw. 

Theresa:
[00:08:15 - 00:08:18]
I saw t and then rue. 

Kip:
[00:08:18 - 00:08:38]
The theme is mystery or undercover agent. So the books are a hooded crow by Craig Thomas. Amanda, add these to your reading list. The third policeman by Flan O'Brien, high hand by Gary Phillips, the turn of the Screw by Henry James, dirty work by Stuart woods and Rainbow Six by Tom Clancy. 

Amanda:
[00:08:38 - 00:08:41]
To be fair, first of all, great video game. Never read the book. 

Theresa:
[00:08:41 - 00:08:42]
I didn't know it was a book. 

Kip:
[00:08:42 - 00:08:43]
That's one of my favourite video games. 

Amanda:
[00:08:43 - 00:08:45]
Oh, it's one of my all time favourite video games. 

Kip:
[00:08:45 - 00:08:45]
So good. 

Theresa:
[00:08:45 - 00:08:46]
I've never played it. 

Amanda:
[00:08:46 - 00:08:57]
I didn't know it was a book. Well, I assumed it was, because Tom Clancy. But it's an author. The third policeman is the book he's reading, though. I thought the question was on the bookshelf. 

Kip:
[00:08:57 - 00:08:58]
Seen in the hatch. 

Amanda:
[00:08:59 - 00:09:02]
Okay, I was thinking the bookshelf. 

Kip:
[00:09:02 - 00:09:03]
Okay, that's it. 

Theresa:
[00:09:04 - 00:09:05]
Unfortunately, you did not get two points. 

Kip:
[00:09:05 - 00:09:12]
Well, you got the author, so that's kind of like a point. You got like. It rhymes. 

Theresa:
[00:09:12 - 00:09:13]
I got that. 

Amanda:
[00:09:14 - 00:09:26]
You like no words. Sometimes I do not know what the turn of the screw is about, but those are all names that sound like they'd be, like, good mystery. 

Kip:
[00:09:26 - 00:09:28]
Yeah. Mystery books. 

Theresa:
[00:09:28 - 00:09:29]
Or old English. 

Amanda:
[00:09:32 - 00:09:41]
Or Shakespeare place. Yeah, no, that's just. Henry James is the only one I could think of, and that's why I thought maybe. And one of them looked really old. I remember thinking, like, it looked really cool. 

Kip:
[00:09:42 - 00:09:46]
Sheena, if you're listening, Teresa is rubbing the let's get lost rock in consolation. 

Amanda:
[00:09:47 - 00:09:51]
Yes, it's now her comfort rock. Don't really know how to feel about that. 

Theresa:
[00:09:52 - 00:09:52]
Why? 

Amanda:
[00:09:52 - 00:09:54]
I don't think that's its purpose. 

Kip:
[00:09:54 - 00:09:56]
It can have many purposes. 

Theresa:
[00:09:56 - 00:09:57]
Yeah. What's its purpose to you? 

Amanda:
[00:09:58 - 00:09:59]
To look pretty. 

Kip:
[00:09:59 - 00:10:00]
Yeah, that's true. 

Amanda:
[00:10:01 - 00:10:02]
Anyway. 

Kip:
[00:10:02 - 00:10:08]
All right, if you don't know what the deluxe get lost rock is, it's on our socials. Made by a superfan. 

Amanda:
[00:10:08 - 00:10:10]
Yeah. Made by our favourites. 

Kip:
[00:10:11 - 00:10:16]
All right, it's now time for Teresa's stream of consciousness. 

Theresa:
[00:10:18 - 00:10:18]
Also. 

Kip:
[00:10:19 - 00:10:19]
Okay. 

Theresa:
[00:10:20 - 00:10:31]
I decided to go old school on this one and write it out by hand. You're going to hear a lot of page flipping. I'm so sorry. And a lot of you saying okay anyway. Oh, great. 

Theresa:
[00:10:31 - 00:10:40]
It's a lock episode. I hate what old Locke looks like. Give me senior Locke. I don't like how smooth his skin is. Ew. 

Theresa:
[00:10:41 - 00:10:47]
Locke smokes. That seems weird. Ew. Hot and bothered. There's no stopping. 

Theresa:
[00:10:51 - 00:10:58]
That's a. Oh, yeah, that's a lot. Before the. Like. We went really far back. 

Theresa:
[00:10:59 - 00:11:03]
Good question, Jack. What is going to happen? Ew. They did it. But wait. 

Theresa:
[00:11:03 - 00:11:06]
Why is their bed spread still so taut? 

Kip:
[00:11:06 - 00:11:07]
Weird. 

Theresa:
[00:11:07 - 00:11:16]
I mean, at least give her a kiss goodbye. Don't just walk out. Minus ten. What year is this? What car are you driving, Locke? 

Theresa:
[00:11:16 - 00:11:23]
You know what? You're obsessed. What's his dad's name again? Why? Is always a great question. 

Theresa:
[00:11:23 - 00:11:38]
This guy's such a douche. I will say that I like how trusting Locke is. Same with Des. To be honest, I'm using, like, a very tiny notepad. Oh, for God's sake, Jack, just let him do what he wants. 

Theresa:
[00:11:38 - 00:11:58]
Sometimes it really grinds my gears that unless Jack gets what he wants, he gets angry and needs to ask all these questions and won't stop until he gets what he wants. Like, why is he so mad? This doesn't affect you. Don't do anything if you don't want to, but just stop hindering others. Sawyer has one arm. 

Theresa:
[00:11:58 - 00:12:06]
Why are we letting him be the one to climb to the top? Geniuses. What computer did you see that was going to save the world? Jack? Just wondering. 

Theresa:
[00:12:07 - 00:12:16]
Oh, hi, Marvin Candle. Hi de gruth. Hello, Dharma. Oh, the polar bears. This hansoga is creepy. 

Theresa:
[00:12:16 - 00:12:26]
Why is it called the swan 540? Is a long time incident. Did this used to be an actual geodesic dome? And then they buried it? Oh, my God. 

Theresa:
[00:12:26 - 00:12:36]
Is Desmond okay? I wonder what the object of the project is if it's just going on and on and on and on. Are we recording some data? Who is. Where is it? 

Theresa:
[00:12:36 - 00:12:44]
Just wondering. Oh, John, you're so awkward. Oh, cute. Has he not been staying over? Does he sleep in his car? 

Theresa:
[00:12:44 - 00:12:53]
Good God, he's so obsessive ill. They're kissing. Jack, just let him. Just let him do what he wants. Who cares? 

Theresa:
[00:12:53 - 00:13:01]
Walk away if you don't want to watch. Oh, shit. That would be so scary. This woman's so sketchy, though. You know, I get it's confusing, but, Jack, take a second. 

Theresa:
[00:13:01 - 00:13:08]
He's clearly so freaked out. Let's leave Des alone. Hey, John, are you okay? Oh, John, come on. You promised. 

Theresa:
[00:13:08 - 00:13:15]
How could you do this? Do you even know? Helen is very wise. Oh, Helen. Locke is so stuck. 

Theresa:
[00:13:16 - 00:13:24]
You know, Helen really is the change he needed. Tbh. But then how did he get to the way he is now? Oh, Hurley came. She's asking a lot of questions. 

Theresa:
[00:13:24 - 00:13:38]
This girl is sketchy. That's badass, though. Like her whole coming out, coming out. Jack, you know, I think you're the scared one here. I'm not sure how to feel about all of this, honestly. 

Theresa:
[00:13:38 - 00:13:46]
Okay, yes. Said yes. This is why I love you. You're the real know. Sometimes work needs to be done before questions can be answered. 

Theresa:
[00:13:46 - 00:13:56]
I'm just saying this is a lot of beeping and it's driving me crazy. Oh, Hurley, I don't understand. This timeline. Is Jack like a superhuman? And he ran back in two? 

Theresa:
[00:13:57 - 00:14:08]
You know, you're testing him at the wrong time. You don't want him to ask you questions, and now you're trying to test him? Like, really, this doesn't make any sense. Sayed, really? This is why you are the real mvp. 

Theresa:
[00:14:09 - 00:14:19]
I'm confused. And there are way too many feelings in this episode. There are way too many of you standing here. Someone push the button to stop the beeping. Have him do it later if you want to. 

Theresa:
[00:14:19 - 00:14:31]
Really see if he's really going to do it. And he believes. The fact that you all let it take this long to get to this point with this incessant beeping means all of you. Get. -25 the end. 

Theresa:
[00:14:32 - 00:14:34]
I was just not having it. 

Kip:
[00:14:36 - 00:14:38]
His name is Cooper Locker. 

Theresa:
[00:14:38 - 00:14:38]
Thank you. 

Amanda:
[00:14:38 - 00:14:39]
Anthony Cooper. 

Kip:
[00:14:39 - 00:14:46]
Anthony Cooper. Right. I wrote what woman? But then I realised you meant Annalicia. 

Amanda:
[00:14:46 - 00:14:46]
Yes. 

Kip:
[00:14:46 - 00:14:47]
Okay. 

Amanda:
[00:14:47 - 00:14:56]
Do we know her? Oh, yeah, she does give her name. And yes, you corrected yourself, because technically, when you said in the trivia, going out or going up, it's coming out. 

Kip:
[00:14:56 - 00:14:57]
Yeah, coming out. 

Amanda:
[00:14:57 - 00:14:59]
You did it the right way here. 

Kip:
[00:15:00 - 00:15:09]
Also, when you said you like how trusting Locke is and also how trusting Des is, there was a look between you two. 

Amanda:
[00:15:09 - 00:15:10]
Oh. 

Theresa:
[00:15:10 - 00:15:25]
Because Amanda did. I don't know how to. Essentially, what it looked like, folks, for those of you who can't see, is a half eye roll with a slight head tilt down, like, are you kidding me? You know what I mean? That's what it was. 

Amanda:
[00:15:25 - 00:15:36]
I don't know about that. I just think that that's interesting. I would not call Locke trusting. Right. 

Theresa:
[00:15:36 - 00:15:37]
Well, he believes. 

Amanda:
[00:15:37 - 00:15:44]
He believes. That's different than trusting. Right. Because I think trusting is more what Jack did. Right. 

Amanda:
[00:15:44 - 00:16:09]
Because Jack doesn't believe, so he has to put his faith in something that he doesn't agree with or believe in or think is real. So he's trusting Locke and everyone. And Locke is just one of those people that believes in things. He should not want anything to do with Anthony Cooper anymore. It just shows up at his house every night. 

Amanda:
[00:16:09 - 00:16:10]
For what reason? What is he expecting? 

Theresa:
[00:16:11 - 00:16:12]
That's what I don't really get, to be honest. 

Amanda:
[00:16:12 - 00:16:24]
Right. So we'll talk about that more later. But I have a lot to say about that because I think Locke's character is. I think this is when you see why he's so polarising. But I didn't mean to roll my eyes at you. 

Theresa:
[00:16:24 - 00:16:31]
Yeah, I know. Your opinion is the only one that. I don't really know what you mean by literally joking. 

Kip:
[00:16:32 - 00:16:35]
What did you mean by Des being trusting as well? 

Theresa:
[00:16:35 - 00:16:38]
I think it was more like when all that stuff was happening and he. 

Kip:
[00:16:38 - 00:16:39]
Was just, like, doing his thing. 

Theresa:
[00:16:39 - 00:16:49]
Push the button. Essentially. They all have guns and he didn't go back to take his. He was just like, I'm doing, like, do whatever you want. I don't care. 

Theresa:
[00:16:49 - 00:17:06]
And I think that's more what it is. You literally had two people, one with a rifle, one with a gun on you, and you're like, no, I'm going to do my thing. You do what you want. And then with Jack essentially yelling at him and locke being like, what? And they're like, there's a video over there. 

Theresa:
[00:17:06 - 00:17:17]
Just go watch. Just help yourself to where I've been living this entire time to figure it out while I take care of other stuff. That to me, is, like, pretty trusting. 

Amanda:
[00:17:17 - 00:17:18]
That's fair. 

Theresa:
[00:17:18 - 00:17:20]
We're going to do something really fun altogether. 

Kip:
[00:17:23 - 00:17:25]
I think we have to try an on island treat. 

Amanda:
[00:17:28 - 00:17:31]
All right, so do one of you guys want to explain what this is? 

Theresa:
[00:17:32 - 00:17:47]
So it was Daniel's birthday and graduation. Recent recently. So as part of his gift, I'm showing some salt and vinegar roasted crickets from prairie cricket farms here in Canada. And we're going to try some. 

Amanda:
[00:17:47 - 00:17:51]
Everyone's going to try some just to get a real sense of what want to. 

Kip:
[00:17:51 - 00:17:53]
I wouldn't eat if I was on. 

Amanda:
[00:17:53 - 00:17:54]
The island, what would you eat? 

Kip:
[00:17:55 - 00:17:57]
The leaves and stuff. All those leaves. 

Theresa:
[00:17:57 - 00:17:58]
Do you know that these are a. 

Amanda:
[00:17:58 - 00:18:04]
Great source of protein. They are sustainable. People are starting to cook with them more. Theresa and I've also been watching a. 

Theresa:
[00:18:04 - 00:18:10]
Lot of survivor watch someone eat. Just start licking ants or not ants. Termites. 

Kip:
[00:18:10 - 00:18:15]
Convince you they are full Miami. They are from Manitoba. 

Amanda:
[00:18:15 - 00:18:18]
Okay. Oh, that's great. Okay. 

Kip:
[00:18:18 - 00:18:19]
Why is that great? 

Amanda:
[00:18:19 - 00:18:24]
That's a great area for crickets. They're salt and vinegar flavoured. At the very least. They're just going to taste like salt and vinegar. 

Theresa:
[00:18:25 - 00:18:26]
Exactly. It's just crunchy salt and vinegar. 

Kip:
[00:18:26 - 00:18:28]
Why are you so excited about this, Amanda? 

Amanda:
[00:18:28 - 00:18:31]
Because I would like the earth to have food in 45 years. 

Theresa:
[00:18:31 - 00:18:32]
Okay. 

Kip:
[00:18:32 - 00:18:34]
I don't think crickets are the answer. 

Amanda:
[00:18:34 - 00:18:37]
Apparently they are. Okay. They're evil. They're actually terrible. 

Kip:
[00:18:38 - 00:18:38]
It looks disgusting. 

Amanda:
[00:18:38 - 00:18:47]
They look disgusting. They have really buggy look like eyes. Put them here. 

Theresa:
[00:18:47 - 00:18:48]
I have two pieces. 

Kip:
[00:18:48 - 00:18:49]
Oh, that's gross. 

Theresa:
[00:18:50 - 00:18:55]
Well, don't take up close photos of it. Okay, here we go. 

Kip:
[00:18:55 - 00:18:57]
Are you going to swallow whole or, like, let it crunch? 

Theresa:
[00:18:57 - 00:18:58]
You have to chew them. 

Amanda:
[00:18:58 - 00:19:00]
They're apparently very delicious, you guys. 

Theresa:
[00:19:00 - 00:19:02]
It looks like they took off most of the leg. 

Kip:
[00:19:02 - 00:19:02]
Cricket. 

Theresa:
[00:19:02 - 00:19:03]
I've got two legs only. 

Kip:
[00:19:04 - 00:19:06]
Yeah, I only have little eyes. 

Theresa:
[00:19:08 - 00:19:18]
Okay, ready? Here we go. One, two, three. They're just going to taste like the outside of a sunflower seed. 

Kip:
[00:19:18 - 00:19:20]
Yeah. Or like almost like a roasted chickpea. 

Theresa:
[00:19:20 - 00:19:22]
Yeah, I like it. 

Kip:
[00:19:23 - 00:19:28]
What did you think? You're not interested? Did you eat it? Yes. You did not. 

Kip:
[00:19:28 - 00:19:30]
You tossed it over your shoulder. 

Amanda:
[00:19:30 - 00:19:32]
It's way worse in your head. You would die on survivor. 

Kip:
[00:19:33 - 00:19:34]
Gross. 

Theresa:
[00:19:35 - 00:19:36]
Like, this much? 

Amanda:
[00:19:37 - 00:19:38]
I had about six. What do you have? 

Theresa:
[00:19:38 - 00:19:40]
I don't know. Okay. 

Kip:
[00:19:40 - 00:19:41]
I can feel it in my mouth. 

Theresa:
[00:19:42 - 00:19:43]
That's why one at a time was not great. 

Kip:
[00:19:44 - 00:19:48]
Yeah, no, the crunchy bits, I can feel them. Many at a time would be worse. 

Amanda:
[00:19:49 - 00:19:54]
I think that, like, it's very dry. I don't think that it's a snack of the future, Kip. 

Kip:
[00:19:54 - 00:19:56]
I'm not going to enjoy the future. 

Amanda:
[00:19:56 - 00:19:59]
Well, Theresa and I liked it. Hey, three out of three out of. 

Kip:
[00:19:59 - 00:20:00]
Four people love it. 

Amanda:
[00:20:01 - 00:20:05]
And one of us is entirely not open to even liking them. 

Kip:
[00:20:06 - 00:20:08]
It's no offence to crickets. 

Amanda:
[00:20:08 - 00:20:16]
Well, thank you, Dan, for sharing your treat. And we know that three of us would probably survive. And one of us, honestly, I could. 

Theresa:
[00:20:16 - 00:20:19]
See just like eating a bunch of those on the beach. I was just hanging out. 

Amanda:
[00:20:19 - 00:20:27]
The only issue I have, only question is a source of protein. Excellent source of vitamin B. Twelve. Zinc. Manganese. 

Amanda:
[00:20:27 - 00:20:37]
I don't know that you need manganese, but that's neither here nor there. You need the other things for sure. How many of these would I have to eat to be satisfied? 

Theresa:
[00:20:37 - 00:20:45]
I think that's the thing, is, I think if I had a big bag on a beach, like, eating it would be a thing. But eating, like, one at a time is very unsatisfying. 

Amanda:
[00:20:45 - 00:20:49]
So this whole little package is 25 grammes and that's 110 calories. 

Theresa:
[00:20:49 - 00:20:51]
That's not bad. Actually. 

Kip:
[00:20:51 - 00:21:02]
Manganese is a trace mineral that is essential to our body in small amounts. Because we cannot make it. We must obtain it in food or supplements. 

Amanda:
[00:21:03 - 00:21:05]
That's hilarious to me. I didn't say I didn't think we needed. 

Kip:
[00:21:05 - 00:21:09]
I said I didn't literally said I don't know if we need this. 

Amanda:
[00:21:09 - 00:21:27]
I've just never been told to up my manganese intake. But I haven't told to up those other things. All right, well, thank you, dad, for your fun snack. Okay, so let's get into this episode. It's a big one. 

Amanda:
[00:21:27 - 00:21:28]
It's a big one. 

Theresa:
[00:21:28 - 00:21:28]
Big one. 

Kip:
[00:21:28 - 00:21:30]
All right. I love this episode. 

Amanda:
[00:21:30 - 00:21:31]
Me, too. 

Theresa:
[00:21:32 - 00:21:38]
I didn't hate it. I'm torn on it. I'm torn on it before we recorded. It's not my favourite. 

Amanda:
[00:21:39 - 00:21:41]
Yes, but what did you actually say? 

Theresa:
[00:21:42 - 00:21:45]
I don't know. I think that you liked it a. 

Amanda:
[00:21:45 - 00:21:47]
Lot less than you thought you did. 

Theresa:
[00:21:47 - 00:21:49]
Oh, you remember yeah, I did. 

Amanda:
[00:21:49 - 00:21:50]
Whereas I liked a lot more than I remember. 

Theresa:
[00:21:51 - 00:22:05]
I liked it a lot less. I think it's because I remember the video, and I think that's more. What I was remembering is the video was so, like, what? That I forgot about all the other. It was a lot of feelings. 

Theresa:
[00:22:05 - 00:22:12]
We all know how I feel about feelings. I'm not, like, a big feelings person. And I just think the timing on some of these things is a little off. 

Kip:
[00:22:13 - 00:22:16]
It was a lot of, like. What do you mean? 

Theresa:
[00:22:16 - 00:22:18]
Well, like, Jack had a lot of feelings. 

Kip:
[00:22:18 - 00:22:19]
He always does, though. 

Theresa:
[00:22:19 - 00:22:35]
I know, but it was like. I found it kind of frustrating how Locke was like, yeah, we have to trust him. I believe this is what we have to do. Whatever. And Jack was the one who was kind of being kind of irrational and being like, why would you do this? 

Theresa:
[00:22:35 - 00:22:41]
And blah, blah, blah. All of his questions were just coming at the wrong time. Just wait. Just let them do what they're doing. 

Kip:
[00:22:41 - 00:22:42]
You were just frustrated with Jack. 

Theresa:
[00:22:42 - 00:22:59]
Yeah. And then at the end, when he comes back and he gives them the numbers, I understand why they're doing what they're like as characters. I understand why Jack doesn't believe. I understand why he's frustrated that Locke does. And I understand why Locke is like, you have to be the one to push the button. 

Theresa:
[00:22:59 - 00:23:13]
However, in a moment where the ticker has been climbing down for the past three minutes, this is the time that you choose to do this. And I understand that there's, like, an urgency to it, but what if he chose not to? 

Amanda:
[00:23:14 - 00:23:35]
I think the reality is that I think Locke was okay with that happening, because I think he a just thought, like, he knew he would. Right. And that's what I mean about the difference between how. I'm not sure that he trusts Jack, but I think, again, he thinks this is his destiny. He thinks that this is what they're supposed to be doing. 

Amanda:
[00:23:35 - 00:23:40]
So he thinks that what he decides should happen will come to be right. 

Kip:
[00:23:40 - 00:23:47]
I don't think Locke would have been okay with Jack not pressing it. I think he would have just pressed it. 

Theresa:
[00:23:47 - 00:23:48]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:23:48 - 00:23:50]
If Jack didn't. 

Amanda:
[00:23:50 - 00:23:52]
But it was so close. 

Kip:
[00:23:53 - 00:23:54]
Yeah, but Jack was right there. 

Theresa:
[00:23:54 - 00:23:54]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:23:54 - 00:23:59]
That's like. I think it had come down to, like 5 seconds or whatever. Lockett would have went and hit execute. 

Amanda:
[00:23:59 - 00:24:14]
I meant more like, I just think that he knew he would do like. I think that he believes all the things I just don't understand. And I guess we're starting. We're starting at the understand, and I shouldn't say I don't understand. I do understand character wise. 

Amanda:
[00:24:15 - 00:24:27]
I know that this is in line with his character. I know kind of that. But I don't understand philosophically why Jack has to be like, what. What harm does pushing the button do? 

Theresa:
[00:24:28 - 00:24:30]
That's what I find difficult, too. 

Kip:
[00:24:32 - 00:24:36]
I don't believe that he would have pressed it. I really don't. 

Amanda:
[00:24:36 - 00:24:48]
You think the fact that he did it is out of character? I agree, too. But why does he have to draw these lines? Why does he have to put his head in the sand? Why does he have to do all these things? 

Amanda:
[00:24:48 - 00:24:51]
Right. Why is he so angry? 

Kip:
[00:24:51 - 00:24:57]
Well, I think Locke hit the nail on the head when he said earlier on in the episode, are you upset because he said he recognised you? 

Amanda:
[00:24:57 - 00:24:57]
Right. 

Kip:
[00:24:58 - 00:25:13]
And then he says, correctly, because that would be insane or impossible, whatever he says. And Jack is trying to reconcile this, right? Like, he knows that's insane, that's impossible. And it's also flying in the face of everything that he said to Locke. Being like, all of this shit is insane. 

Kip:
[00:25:13 - 00:25:32]
Oh, wait. I've met this guy before, and here he is sitting in the bottom of his hatch, and for Jack, his mind's blown. So he has no idea how to deal with this, how to reconcile with it in his own. And, like, unfortunately, I think it comes out as him being this way of just, like, super angry. We've seen him get angry about stuff before. 

Amanda:
[00:25:33 - 00:25:51]
Well, it's very clear that Jack is very avoidant. Right. He does not like to actually assess or address anything serious. And it's also clear for those who have seen it, the whole thing through. I think it becomes very clear a lot earlier on that I thought that a lot of what everyone here needs is just like, this. 

Amanda:
[00:25:51 - 00:26:19]
This kind of reconciliation with who they are and how they feel and kind of getting these answers. And Jack just. He doesn't want to get them from anything other than sound logic and reason and science and hard work. And he doesn't want it to be out of his control. Like you said, it's blowing his mind that this person who he met randomly running stairs in the middle of the night, half a world away, three years ago, is still here. 

Amanda:
[00:26:20 - 00:26:31]
And so he can't accept that, because that's not something tangible that he can control. Right. And if he can't control it, it can't be real. Why they always butt heads? 

Kip:
[00:26:31 - 00:26:53]
I wasn't as annoyed with Jack as you guys were, because I think it's realistic to want answers from someone who's down there. And what better time to get answers is to be like, okay, hold on a second. I'm not giving you this jar of screws, whatever it was, till you give me some answers. Because at that time, Jack doesn't believe something's going to happen, or so he says. So he thinks. 

Kip:
[00:26:53 - 00:27:20]
So it's like, I didn't really get frustrated with Jack in those moments. I thought it was pretty natural to use the tools at your disposal to try to get some answers as to why someone's here, when you've been stuck on an island for 44 days or whatever, and here's someone who's not trying to kill you. Well, debatably, but to try to get answers in one way or another, I think that was okay. 

Amanda:
[00:27:20 - 00:27:47]
I don't have an issue with that piece of what he like, I actually do think that's pretty on brand. I just really don't like how he talks to sometimes. I actually don't think it's that necessary, because particularly at that time, I can see towards the end of the episode why he was getting more frustrated with Locke and this idea that Locke wants things to be a certain way, but then doesn't want to do it alone. And Jack kind of being like, fine, you're on your own. Kind of like. 

Amanda:
[00:27:47 - 00:28:07]
And I don't love Locke, and I like Jack objectively more than I like Locke, but I just don't think it's necessary. What bothers me about Jack at this point is that, fine, you don't believe. You don't, whatever. But why does it offend you so deeply that Locke does? And that's something that they struggle with a little bit, is this idea, like, fine, you don't believe. 

Amanda:
[00:28:07 - 00:28:28]
You're a man of science. You don't want to believe any of this. You don't want to deal with any of like, that's fine. But it seems to offend him or get under his skin or something, that Locke does feel this way, and it's like, why? And I think it does kind of come down to that piece where I think Jack struggles with it a lot more, and Locke represents a lot of what Jack can't deal with. 

Amanda:
[00:28:29 - 00:28:56]
And so Locke kind of takes the heat for a lot of Jack's personal kind of issues, and so does Kate. Sometimes I don't love Kate, as we know, but I think Jack's sometimes unfair to Kate, too. Right? I think Jack has a tendency to be unfair to the people that are around him because he has a hard time dealing with a lot of his own shit, and he's going to have to do that, because now they have a whole new set of something to deal with. Right. 

Amanda:
[00:28:56 - 00:29:06]
And even more of a reason for them all to work together and less people, and people are leaving and people are going missing and whatever. Right. So he's going to have to put his faith in something. Right. 

Theresa:
[00:29:07 - 00:29:18]
Honestly, for me, I think what it is, is I'm actually more like, you know how when they were like things like, well, why don't we just push it? And this isn't the time to do it. That's more my thought process. 

Kip:
[00:29:18 - 00:29:24]
Saeed's line of this argument is hilarious. Practical said is the best. 

Theresa:
[00:29:24 - 00:29:24]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:29:24 - 00:29:26]
And he's like, he'll tell me when it's done. 

Kip:
[00:29:26 - 00:29:28]
Yeah. I don't need to know right now. Yeah. 

Theresa:
[00:29:28 - 00:29:46]
And that's how I feel about it, too, is you're spending so much time arguing and asking all these questions and this and that, and it's literally like three minutes. You're fine. Just hold off. You guys can talk about it later. But again, the way they're acting is not out of their character. 

Theresa:
[00:29:46 - 00:29:59]
So it makes sense because I don't have that. Like I said, I'm just more like, say, I'm more like even when it comes to when we do things, so. 

Amanda:
[00:29:59 - 00:30:04]
We get a lot of. Sorry. I was going to say we get a lot of, like, I'm just going to kind of move forward. 

Kip:
[00:30:05 - 00:30:06]
Go for it. 

Amanda:
[00:30:10 - 00:30:36]
I was just going to say we get a lot of kind of subtle. There's obviously very overt storyline driving, driving the storyline forward in character development. And we can talk about that in the backstory for sure. But there's also some kind of more subdued things, like we do get that orientation video, right? And in that orientation video, we see that one of the things, this is clearly some sort of research facility. 

Amanda:
[00:30:36 - 00:30:56]
And the question becomes they talk about all these things that they're doing on the island, which includes showing polar bears, which is very interesting and I'm sure most people would have picked up on and this idea. So I think the question kind of becomes like, if you're not watching it, I should have asked Dan, how much of that do you buy into as an audience member right now? 

Kip:
[00:30:56 - 00:30:57]
That's a good. 

Amanda:
[00:30:57 - 00:31:24]
Right. Like, when you're watching this for the first time, do you remember saying, did that answer questions for you or did it raise more questions? I think it's kind of designed to do both. But are we supposed to believe that everything that they're talking about in that video happens at this facility that they're in? Is there other things, things like that it kind of drives forward this idea, like, okay, there is something here for the first real, I think, tangible time. 

Amanda:
[00:31:24 - 00:31:46]
I think you're like, why are there polar bears? And why is there the smoke monster and why is there this hatch and why is there this, and why do we crash? And all these questions. And I think this is the first time where you're like, okay, something does exist here, or did exist here, or there's something going on here that's bigger than just what's happening. And I think that's really important that we don't kind of skirt over that because I think it's the first real. 

Amanda:
[00:31:46 - 00:31:58]
Other than the stuff with Ethan and that kind of idea and knowing that something was going on there, I think this is the first time that it seems, I don't know, focused or calculated or organised in some way. 

Theresa:
[00:31:58 - 00:32:23]
I know for me, when I watched it, I think I was like, okay. I definitely had the mentality of like, oh, that makes sense. If you're going to be doing these weird experiments because of this and that you would do it where the thing that you're investigating or experimenting would be. So if they're looking at electromagnetic abnormalities, you would do it there. So to me, I was like, oh, this all makes sense. 

Theresa:
[00:32:24 - 00:32:48]
For some reason. It rationalised it for me, like, a lot of what he's doing or whatever. But then I was like, this is not sustainable for people. And the video looks so old that I was like, is this all still, like, did we forget about them? Because I remember there was this hearing a story about a war at some point and someone was in the jungle and he was in the jungle, I think, for, like, 20 years and didn't believe that the war had ended. 

Kip:
[00:32:48 - 00:32:50]
What are you talking about? Unlost? 

Theresa:
[00:32:50 - 00:33:06]
No, in real life. So then I was like, is this a similar situation where this guy's been down here for so long and he doesn't know that it's over and they've just forgotten about him. Or maybe his replacement was supposed to be like, actually, we're done. Let's go. So I was like, yeah, I guess this makes sense. 

Kip:
[00:33:07 - 00:33:36]
Yeah. And I don't remember. So the video, in a sense, and even less so, the video, but the fact that Jack's key is magnetised and flies up towards the wall and Desmond talks about the magnetism as well, and then they talk about electromagnetic experiments, blah, blah, blah. To me, that sort of, like, answers somewhat answers the question from the first season when, why the compasses weren't working right. Because they're clearly standing over something. 

Kip:
[00:33:36 - 00:33:46]
And so it's like, I think what we learn about lost is a lot of questions get answered, but not like they don't necessarily spell it out for you. 

Amanda:
[00:33:46 - 00:33:47]
Yeah, they don't hit you over the head with it. 

Kip:
[00:33:47 - 00:34:10]
No, they're not going to say, well, the reason your compass didn't work when you first got here was because we're standing over this giant electromagnetic field. No, we kind of have to read between the lines. And same with the polar bears. It's like, okay, I think they come up later again, but at the same time it's like, okay, well, here's a video. And, yeah, if we believe what the video is telling us, that they did experiments on animals and they show video of polar bears. 

Kip:
[00:34:10 - 00:34:26]
So it leads us to believe that that's why polar bears were there was because they were doing experiments on them or with them or whatever. And I guess at some point they got loose and whatever. So that somewhat answers questions, but it also raises more questions of like, well, why did they get loose? What happened to this experiment? Right. 

Kip:
[00:34:26 - 00:34:46]
So it is on both fronts. And again, I don't exactly remember if we get any more explanation about the polar bears, but at the same time, I'm thinking like, I know they come up again, but I'm thinking like, this isn't going to be one of those answers that gets hit us over the head. It's just sort of like, oh, yeah, okay, that makes sense. 

Amanda:
[00:34:46 - 00:35:14]
And that's kind of the beauty of the show, one of the beauties of the show. And I remember seeing in one of the lost groups, whatever kind of a debate a few months ago or whatever kind of saying, do you think that this was all planned out from the beginning, everything perfectly? Because like you said, the polar bears are in, what, the first episode, and then we see a video about them 25 episodes later. And same with the magnetic field, their compasses don't work, but we don't find out there's an electromagnetic field for 20 more episodes or whatever. So someone was kind of like, do you think that they planned it out? 

Amanda:
[00:35:14 - 00:35:50]
And when they're doing things in the beginning, like showing polar bears and showing that the compasses don't work, they just backfill that in later? Or were they thinking that at the time? And it's like, I don't actually think it matters because I think no matter how they did, I tend to think they probably had it all planned out. But even if they didn't, even if they go back and backfill kind of that information, they're like, oh, we should make this an electric magnetic field, because we said at first that their compasses didn't work, and really, at the time, we thought it was because they were broken or whatever. What difference is meticulous level of storytelling and detail that is really not existent in any show at the time. 

Amanda:
[00:35:50 - 00:36:02]
I appreciate that with streaming and things like that. There's a lot more shows like this now, but at the time, the level of detail and meticulous storytelling and the serialised nature of it was pretty rare. It's pretty impressive. 

Kip:
[00:36:02 - 00:36:20]
It definitely is. And I think it was probably a bit of both, whereas a lot of it was planned out, and then they were able to just sort of fill in gaps with something that seems to fit at the moment. I'm sure not every detail was planned out to the end, but I think for sure a lot of those big points were. 

Amanda:
[00:36:21 - 00:36:29]
Yeah. And I think it does. Like she said, there's things that they'll hit us over the head with, like the numbers. Numbers are going to hit you over the head for the next six seasons. 

Kip:
[00:36:29 - 00:36:30]
$500 billion. 

Amanda:
[00:36:30 - 00:36:55]
Right. Like Hurley's numbers on the hatches and that. So that will come back and hit you over the head, and then there'll be things that are very, very nuanced. And this is a really good example of an episode, to point to some of those and then remind viewers as they're watching it that one of the criticisms you're going to hear about lost, if you are watching it for the first time, is that you're not going to get answers. You never find out x or we never found out. 

Amanda:
[00:36:55 - 00:37:07]
This. You will find out way more than you think you will if you just pay attention to little bits like that. But, yes, I'm going to be honest, you're never going to find out the answer to everything. Right. Do we hear about the polymers again? 

Amanda:
[00:37:07 - 00:37:09]
There's just a lot going on. 

Kip:
[00:37:10 - 00:37:55]
Can we talk about the numbers for 1 second? Because I'm getting frustrated with the show, and I'll tell you why, because the numbers we know come up a lot. But I feel like it's crazy that Hurley won the lottery using these numbers that he heard from an insane guy or a guy in a psychiatric ward. Then they're on the outside of the hatch, then he finds out they're used to put in this number, and it's just like, does nobody else find that? Just to me, it's just not taken seriously. 

Amanda:
[00:37:55 - 00:38:09]
I agree. And that's what I said when we were. Was it last episode one before, where he tells Jack about it, and Jack just does shrug it off, and it's like, how can you. Right? How can you continue? 

Amanda:
[00:38:09 - 00:38:26]
That's why Hurley feels crazy, I think. Right. It is this big thing. You guys can't tell me. No one is concerned that the numbers that he won, $160,000,000 or whatever, being on this island, that's not something that causes anyone for concern. 

Amanda:
[00:38:26 - 00:38:28]
I agree. I don't think they're taking it seriously. 

Kip:
[00:38:28 - 00:38:52]
Yeah. And it's starting to really annoy me, because it's just like, for someone like Jack, who's obsessed with answers and finding out the reasons of this, that and the other, it's like, wouldn't you be more interested in being like, okay, what are these numbers, then? Because they've come up now twice, just on the island, plus off the island. And so it's just like, off the. 

Amanda:
[00:38:52 - 00:38:54]
Island with someone on the island. 

Kip:
[00:38:54 - 00:39:02]
Yeah, exactly. And so it's just like. That just drove me crazy. I did laugh when Locke put in the wrong last number. And he was like, yeah, no, do whatever you want. 

Amanda:
[00:39:03 - 00:39:14]
No, I agree. I agree. And it's super, like, yeah, I remember being frustrated with that, too, being like. Because I can't remember exactly who it is. But Jack gives him a really flippant kind of response when he says something. 

Amanda:
[00:39:14 - 00:39:35]
He kind of says. He's like, you're not like, well, he says it's, like, luck or random or something. It's clearly not. Like you said, you're the kind of person who is always looking for answers, and you're very logical, and you're very science driven, and so you should at least know that the probability of something like that happening is insane. 

Kip:
[00:39:35 - 00:39:36]
Yeah, exactly. 

Theresa:
[00:39:36 - 00:39:37]
That's the thing. 

Amanda:
[00:39:37 - 00:39:38]
Take it for what it is. 

Theresa:
[00:39:38 - 00:39:58]
Yeah. After a certain point, it's not a coincidence anymore. The numbers being on the hatch and him choosing that as lottery numbers could be random. Right? The possibility is very slim, but it could be random, because when you play the lottery, usually random numbers or birthdays or what have you, but once you start to see it multiple times, you can't really deny it. 

Amanda:
[00:39:58 - 00:40:24]
And if you saw it multiple times, if you were down at the Bellagio fountains in Vegas, and you saw the numbers and you're like, oh, someone told these numbers to Hurtley, who played them in the lottery. Weird that they came up, but that's where they came from. It's like, maybe, right? But it's like you're in the middle of nowhere on a hatch that was buried, and you think someone else saw these and reported back. No, there's clearly something. 

Amanda:
[00:40:24 - 00:40:32]
And, yeah, Jack kind of, like, I think it's a good example of him kind of picking and choosing when he kind of follows his own. 

Kip:
[00:40:32 - 00:41:02]
And not even Jack, no one else is even asking Hurley about, like, no one else is even bringing them up or questioning him about it. It's just like, why does nobody care about the numbers? And I feel it's like this thing where Hurley is going to be and will always be sort of this comedic element. Like, him as a character, isn't taken that seriously, so his connections aren't going to be taken that seriously. And that just kind of bothers me from a story point of view, like how the creators of the show and the writers and blah, blah, blah, sort of took that route. 

Amanda:
[00:41:02 - 00:41:46]
I think if I had, like, 20 minutes with Damon or Carlton, my questions would almost exclusively be around the character of Hurley, really, because I do think it's hard to talk. I won't say too much, but I think 20 years later, there's some things that you probably can't say are spoilers at this point. But Hurley is obviously an integral part of the show and he will remain to be so for some time and his role becomes more defined, I find. And the first question I have was whether that would always have been the case from the beginning, they intended to do that or if they kind of realised, was he supposed to just be kind of calm? Because he also plays the role of audience surrogate really well. 

Amanda:
[00:41:47 - 00:42:00]
He's like, I'm so glad it's calmed down. And then they're like, oh, boy, or whatever he says. Right. Obviously, that is for comic relief to kind of say what the audience is thinking at the time. Was that always supposed to be his role? 

Amanda:
[00:42:00 - 00:42:07]
Was he always going to have a bigger role? Because I think, yeah, there's some times where I'm not sure if they even know what they're doing right now. 

Kip:
[00:42:07 - 00:42:08]
Exactly. 

Amanda:
[00:42:09 - 00:42:24]
Yeah. Interesting, for sure. Anything else about the hatch before we kind of move on to the other kind of main kind of storylines, which is the flashbacks and the Jin Sawyer Michael. 

Kip:
[00:42:24 - 00:42:54]
Just a few things. Like, I liked how we saw off Island Locke in the hatch a little bit when he was left alone and he got super frustrated and you could see he was visibly upset. He didn't know what to do. And it was a nice kind of departure from Superman Locke, who we only ever really see on island, but he was so quick to almost, like, change his face when Kate walks in. He doesn't want anybody to see him in a defeated kind of way. 

Kip:
[00:42:55 - 00:42:56]
I thought that was good. 

Amanda:
[00:42:56 - 00:42:59]
He kind of stumbles around, drops, yells. 

Kip:
[00:42:59 - 00:43:26]
Into the air and all this stuff, but we always sort of give Jack a hard time for not being able to let go and clinging on to things, mostly last season, it was interesting to see, and I think we've mentioned this before, about how Locke is very much the same way. Maybe there's a good segue into the flashbacks, but we see this with him in his flashback. He just cannot let go of his father, who conned him. 

Amanda:
[00:43:26 - 00:44:01]
No. And that was very interesting because Jack and Locker are so similar in how they feel and their motivations, but just how they express it sometimes, but sometimes not too right, because Jack gets very laser focused and he can't let go and he can't move forward from certain things, and he can't lose control. And Locke is the same way because it just looks different. Like Jack is more overt and Locke is a little bit more subdued. But when control and understanding starts, know, rock a little bit, and it. 

Amanda:
[00:44:01 - 00:44:07]
Locke's like faith or belief, he does do exactly what happened there, where he loses it a bit, right? 

Theresa:
[00:44:07 - 00:44:08]
Exactly. 

Amanda:
[00:44:08 - 00:44:29]
And for him, for Jack, it's different, but it's the same idea. Like, when his sense of control wavers, he loses it a bit. It's just that he thinks his sense of control is derived from his skill and knowledge and science, whereas Locke thinks his control is derived from letting go and believing and having faith. Right. But both of them can be easily rocked, especially in a place like the island. 

Amanda:
[00:44:29 - 00:44:36]
And then they both slip a lot when that happens, but really, Locke can't let go. I think his flashbacks are very sad in this one. 

Theresa:
[00:44:37 - 00:44:49]
Oh, they're so sad. Before we get to that, I have a question about Jack and Desmond's conversation. So obviously, when they're talking and he's, like, holding a gun at him, and he's like, I remember you. You're the guy. Whatever. 

Theresa:
[00:44:50 - 00:44:59]
Ran. And Jack, obviously, very visibly upset. Desmond's like, what happened with the girl? And he's like, I married her. And he's, like, crying ish. 

Theresa:
[00:44:59 - 00:45:20]
And then he goes back and he talks to Locke, and Locke's like, you got to push it. And his nose is very red, which means, obviously, again, still very upset ish. What do you guys take from his conversation with Desmond? The whole thing with Sarah where he didn't fix her, but then he did, and then now him being faced with Locke being like, push that button, yo. 

Kip:
[00:45:22 - 00:45:23]
What do you like? 

Theresa:
[00:45:24 - 00:45:40]
We always talk about how Jack is very logical, and if there's no proof to it then that's not real. But him fixing Sarah, he didn't fix her because he believed that he didn't. He didn't succeed in the surgery, but then fix. But then she was fine. 

Amanda:
[00:45:40 - 00:46:03]
So do you think maybe his conversation with Desmond and kind of a reminder of that reminded him that there is something beyond what he can see and do? Actually, that's a really good point. I think. I think that probably is what happened a little bit. It's this reminder of, know I'm not always right, and sometimes you do have to put your faith in things. 

Amanda:
[00:46:03 - 00:46:23]
I think he just pushes back on also, like, I think Sarah and we do see a bit more, I think, of the breakdown of their marriage. It's now confirmed. I don't think it's ever been overtly confirmed that they're not together anymore. It's very obvious in how he treats Kate and how he carries himself on the island, but I think that was the first concrete. 

Kip:
[00:46:23 - 00:46:24]
Yeah, I think so. 

Amanda:
[00:46:25 - 00:46:59]
Speaking of the fact that they're not together anymore, I think Sarah really messed him up a like, I think the fact that how they got together, how it worked, the fact that, yes, he didn't believe it worked, and then it did, and then that he loses her, I think, is really hard for him. And so, yeah, maybe that's the reminder of, like, there's a lot of things here I don't have control over and that I've been wrong about in the past, including the surgery, including my marriage, including. But even then, you see that that wasn't enough. It was enough to get him back there. Why did he get him back? 

Amanda:
[00:46:59 - 00:47:00]
To give him the number. 

Kip:
[00:47:00 - 00:47:17]
And I agree. I think that is a good point that I didn't even think of, that it was enough to get him back there to give them the number. It wasn't quite enough for him to be like, hey, I'm on board. But that conversation with Desmond, I loved when Jack yelled, why are you running from. Why are you running when you don't even know what you're running like? 

Kip:
[00:47:17 - 00:47:34]
I thought that was a great line. And it really summed up Jack being like, we need to figure this out first. But that's where he has such a hard time of going into something when he doesn't have all the answers before instead of being able to figure it out along the way. 

Amanda:
[00:47:35 - 00:47:50]
I also know. I feel like Jack's the kind of person where he doesn't want to hinder anything. Right. So once he had information that he knew they needed I think it would have been really hard for him to withhold that. I think another segue before we go back to the previous segue we did, which was a flashback. 

Theresa:
[00:47:50 - 00:47:50]
I'm so sorry. 

Amanda:
[00:47:51 - 00:47:56]
You said that. That was a great line that. What are you running? This episode is filled with great lines. 

Kip:
[00:47:56 - 00:47:57]
We need to talk about the other one. 

Amanda:
[00:47:57 - 00:48:19]
The other one is really good. We'll do that. But I also really like the conversation between Desmond and Jack in the hatch, where he's explaining why he's doing what he is, and they watch the video, and blah, blah, blah, blah. And Jack's just kind of like, don't you think that this could be this big social experiment? Don't you ever think about that? 

Amanda:
[00:48:20 - 00:48:33]
Kind of. I think he thinks he's going to tell him something that Desmond doesn't know, and he's kind of, like, going to help him see the light. And he's like, you don't think this could be just a big social experiment? He's like, every single day, chills and. Yeah, that gave me chills, too, because it's like, that's. 

Amanda:
[00:48:33 - 00:48:47]
Again, I think Desmond and Desmond is left, so it's hard to say. But I think we've alluded to before. Desmond is going to come back. Slight spoiler alert. You will see him again. 

Amanda:
[00:48:47 - 00:49:14]
I think Desmond is such an interesting third to the trio of kind of belief systems and work ethics and work systems to locke and Jack, because Desmond is kind of in the right. Like, Desmond doesn't not believe. He doesn't believe, but he's just like, someone told me to do this, and I'm going to do it, because I don't know if. 

Theresa:
[00:49:14 - 00:49:14]
Wrong. 

Kip:
[00:49:15 - 00:49:28]
Yeah, exactly right. He's willing to say he doesn't know. John Locke is going, saying, I know we have to. Jack's saying, I know we don't. Desmond's just saying, I don't know. 

Amanda:
[00:49:28 - 00:49:40]
Desmond's kind of like what we think Jack should be like. We're like, what's the harm? So Desmond stayed in a place because he doesn't want to be wrong. Right. If this is all true, then he doesn't want to be the person who was. 

Amanda:
[00:49:40 - 00:49:59]
And Jack can't get kind of out of his own head to see that he's so stuck. I think if Jack thought that it could be true, he obviously wouldn't take that risk. But he's so stubborn that it can't be true. This is a physical impossibility. So why are we wasting our time, our energy, our resources? 

Amanda:
[00:49:59 - 00:50:07]
This is stupid. And Locke's like, it has to be true. So we have to go. And Des is just kind of like, I don't know. I was given a job. 

Amanda:
[00:50:07 - 00:50:15]
I'm not going to be the reason that the world dies, and I could be the fool in all of this, but it's not worth the risk kind of thing. 

Kip:
[00:50:17 - 00:50:20]
If it were me, I wouldn't believe it either. 

Amanda:
[00:50:21 - 00:50:21]
Right? 

Kip:
[00:50:22 - 00:50:36]
There's no freaking way I would be down there and would think, yes, if I don't hit this button every hundred, this is what's keeping the world going. I would not believe it for a second. So I would be 100% on Jack's side on this. 

Theresa:
[00:50:36 - 00:50:39]
That's a good question. Where would you land? 

Amanda:
[00:50:39 - 00:50:58]
I think I'd probably be more like Desmond if I was already there. I wouldn't be like Locke. I also don't think it's real. I think I would exactly be like Desmond and say, yeah, it's very possible that this is all crap, and it very well would be. But, yeah, my feelings hurt when I walked by that wall and a man told me I had to do it, and all of this is here for a reason. 

Amanda:
[00:50:58 - 00:51:03]
This was set up. This was this. I have food. I'm told to do it. This computer is here. 

Amanda:
[00:51:03 - 00:51:16]
There's this video. It's a lot of trouble to go to for nothing. So maybe it's not what they're saying it is, but it's something, and I'm the only one who can do it right now, so I'll do it. That would be more probably my attitude. 

Theresa:
[00:51:17 - 00:51:31]
I would be on the Desmond camp. I think that if I went down there and someone was like, this is what's happening. Here's this video. I'd be doing it for xyz if we don't blah, blah. And there were subtle hints that what the video said was true. 

Theresa:
[00:51:32 - 00:51:40]
I don't think that it's what keeps the world going, but I think that if it's keeping something from happening, then. 

Kip:
[00:51:40 - 00:51:43]
Like, I would want to see what would happen if I didn't. 

Theresa:
[00:51:43 - 00:51:44]
That's a risky. 

Amanda:
[00:51:46 - 00:51:55]
Not. That's the truth. That is the most accurate thing Kip has said, the most on brand thing. He'd be like, all right, I just want to see what the world ends. 

Kip:
[00:51:56 - 00:52:01]
If I'm the cause of the world, that's a pretty good way to go down it, 100%. There would be no history because the world would have ended. 

Amanda:
[00:52:01 - 00:52:02]
Correct. 

Kip:
[00:52:02 - 00:52:03]
So no one would know. 

Theresa:
[00:52:03 - 00:52:11]
I mean, fair. But no, I think I would do it because I wouldn't want to find out that the world ended because of me. 

Amanda:
[00:52:12 - 00:52:13]
Fair enough. 

Theresa:
[00:52:13 - 00:52:16]
And the suffering, these flashbacks. 

Amanda:
[00:52:16 - 00:52:24]
Really quickly, we see that he's in anger management, which is so funny to me, because. Why is he there? 

Kip:
[00:52:24 - 00:52:25]
Well, we don't know yet. 

Amanda:
[00:52:26 - 00:52:26]
Right. 

Kip:
[00:52:26 - 00:52:28]
Because we haven't seen him get angry about anything. 

Amanda:
[00:52:28 - 00:52:43]
Right. So the first question, I think someone who hasn't seen the show yet should have is, why is he there? Because he clearly doesn't want to participate in it. So I think you have to believe he's not there from his own free will, which should beg the question of what is happening to him, that he has to be there. 

Kip:
[00:52:43 - 00:52:47]
Okay, wait. Do we find out why he's. 

Amanda:
[00:52:48 - 00:52:49]
Remember, I think it has something to do with his. 

Kip:
[00:52:50 - 00:52:52]
I really. I don't remember. 

Theresa:
[00:52:52 - 00:52:54]
Does he freak out on Randy or something like that? 

Amanda:
[00:52:55 - 00:52:57]
There's something that happens. 

Kip:
[00:52:57 - 00:52:58]
Okay. 

Amanda:
[00:52:58 - 00:53:00]
And, yeah, I think he's just. But I don't think he chose to be there. 

Kip:
[00:53:00 - 00:53:01]
Because. You're right. Exactly. 

Amanda:
[00:53:02 - 00:53:02]
Freely. 

Kip:
[00:53:02 - 00:53:03]
No, not at all. 

Theresa:
[00:53:05 - 00:53:16]
And he's clearly one of those people. You can tell. It's like he's okay, and then it's like a flip switch, or switch flips. I don't know how that. I don't know what her. 

Theresa:
[00:53:17 - 00:53:23]
And then all of a sudden, it's just rage. He's not participating. He's not participating. And then he goes. 

Kip:
[00:53:24 - 00:53:25]
Or Francis. 

Theresa:
[00:53:28 - 00:53:30]
Interesting. So you think. 

Amanda:
[00:53:31 - 00:53:41]
No, I don't agree with him. He didn't need to yell at her like that. But I think it's hard to sit in things like that. Probably when you feel like your problems are more important than. 

Theresa:
[00:53:41 - 00:53:42]
Well, then you participate. 

Amanda:
[00:53:43 - 00:53:44]
And he did. 

Theresa:
[00:53:45 - 00:53:57]
I feel like he wasn't really being fair, but obviously he's got a lot of issues to deal with, because I understand it's $30 for Francine, but we don't know the history that she's had with this person, so it's not really fair. 

Kip:
[00:53:57 - 00:53:58]
Not at all. 

Amanda:
[00:53:58 - 00:54:12]
So he ends up meeting Helen. Helen, for those of you paying very close attention, when he is talking to his phone sex lady. Lady in walkabout. 

Theresa:
[00:54:19 - 00:54:20]
Angeline. 

Kip:
[00:54:20 - 00:54:21]
Lily's old job. 

Theresa:
[00:54:21 - 00:54:22]
Oh, love links. 

Kip:
[00:54:22 - 00:54:23]
Love link. 

Theresa:
[00:54:23 - 00:54:24]
Lavalinks. 

Kip:
[00:54:24 - 00:54:24]
Lavalink. 

Amanda:
[00:54:24 - 00:54:26]
Lavalinks. No, that's the canadian one. 

Kip:
[00:54:26 - 00:54:28]
I think that's when she was on. 

Theresa:
[00:54:28 - 00:54:29]
Oh, what's canadian? 

Amanda:
[00:54:29 - 00:54:30]
I think it is. Lavalinks. 

Kip:
[00:54:30 - 00:54:35]
Lavalinks. Hot girls. Ready to talk to you. Just pick up the phone. Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:54:35 - 00:54:37]
That's who he was talking to. 

Amanda:
[00:54:37 - 00:54:38]
Yeah. And he called her Helen. 

Kip:
[00:54:38 - 00:54:38]
Helen. 

Amanda:
[00:54:39 - 00:54:41]
So I think that's really important to understand, because clearly. 

Theresa:
[00:54:41 - 00:54:45]
Oh, my God. What? Did you not know what I thought her name was? Helen. 

Kip:
[00:54:45 - 00:54:48]
I didn't even realise I picked that for her. 

Amanda:
[00:54:48 - 00:54:49]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:54:50 - 00:54:58]
At some point, or he specifically requested to speak to a Helen. And I'm sure they're just like, hey, you're talking Janine. You're Helen tonight. 

Theresa:
[00:54:59 - 00:55:00]
My God. 

Amanda:
[00:55:00 - 00:55:04]
No. And I'm pretty sure it's clear at one point that that's not her name. 

Theresa:
[00:55:04 - 00:55:06]
Well, clearly it did not compute in my brain. 

Amanda:
[00:55:06 - 00:55:19]
Clearly there's something like. But I mean, I think, again, just to understand that he's on the phone with a sex phone operator, that Helen of this timeline no longer exists for him in that. 

Kip:
[00:55:19 - 00:55:19]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:55:19 - 00:55:22]
Which is interesting because at the end of it, we see him make a choice for her. 

Kip:
[00:55:22 - 00:55:22]
Right. 

Amanda:
[00:55:22 - 00:55:44]
And I think that that's interesting because it begs the question of what happened, Theresa. Right. So Helen becomes important to him and he still can't. So what I don't understand is his inability to let go is very interesting to me because I talk about this a lot. I think about this a lot. 

Amanda:
[00:55:44 - 00:56:04]
I think letting go is an issue a lot of people have. But what I don't understand for him is what is he trying to get at here? Because he goes and he talks to Anthony Cooper, and Anthony Cooper is basically still a huge dick, but quite upfront with him about what it is. Right. 

Kip:
[00:56:04 - 00:56:05]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:56:05 - 00:56:14]
And then that's not enough to stop. Okay. Helen confronts him and says, like, this has got to stop, and that's not enough to stop him. 

Kip:
[00:56:14 - 00:56:17]
But he says he will or leads. 

Amanda:
[00:56:17 - 00:56:26]
Her to believe he will, and then she shows up and causes a scene and then he's now saying he'll stop. But can we believe that? Because he's also said it two times. 

Theresa:
[00:56:26 - 00:56:26]
Exactly. 

Amanda:
[00:56:26 - 00:56:43]
So what is it about this situation? Don't get me wrong. What Anthony Cooper did when his mom did. Awful. But why are you continuing to chase after something that is causing you such significant pain, distress, upheaval? 

Kip:
[00:56:44 - 00:57:28]
I mean, I think he's just looking for, like, we've seen through his flashbacks already, that he lived a very sort of low key life. He didn't have many, if any, relationships. He seemingly has been the brunt of a bunch of bad luck or situations where he's at the wrong end of the stick. And I think it's just for him. I don't know how old he is in these flashbacks, like maybe in his 40s, but he's feeling like, okay, this can't be the end to what I thought my relationship with my birth parents would be. 

Kip:
[00:57:28 - 00:57:55]
At least my birth father Locke is the one who can't let go of something when he believes it. So he probably still believes. Those hunting trips they took, all those great times they spent together, maybe there was a kernel of truth in there, and if he just sticks it out, anthony's going to come around and Locke's going to be there to make sure that he's there. When Anthony Cooper comes around and says, you know what, Locke? This was a bad thing for me to do. 

Kip:
[00:57:55 - 00:58:02]
I do want to be your daddy again. I just think he's holding on to hope, essentially. 

Theresa:
[00:58:02 - 00:58:02]
I agree. 

Amanda:
[00:58:02 - 00:58:03]
The belief. 

Theresa:
[00:58:04 - 00:58:04]
You don't. 

Kip:
[00:58:05 - 00:58:06]
Yeah, I don't think he can. 

Theresa:
[00:58:06 - 00:58:06]
That's the thing, right? 

Kip:
[00:58:06 - 00:58:07]
Can't let go. 

Theresa:
[00:58:08 - 00:58:26]
I think Kip's right. I think he's holding on to the one day where he believes that this terrible person is going to be like, you're right. I did care about you in those times. And now that I have what I want and I've had time to think about it, I'm here to be your dad. 

Kip:
[00:58:28 - 00:59:02]
Maybe there's something that causes him to let go eventually, but right now, nothing's been enough. Even Helen, between the two of them, from the small interactions we've seen, it seems like she's the one who's sort of more into him and can't stop her. And he's just sort of like, he likes her and is interested in her. But also, you can tell that he's also sort of always got something going on in the back of his mind. Like, he's not really able to give her 100% of his attention because he's still thinking about Anthony Cooper at that point. 

Kip:
[00:59:02 - 00:59:04]
And it's just like. It's sad. 

Theresa:
[00:59:05 - 00:59:06]
It is sad. 

Amanda:
[00:59:06 - 00:59:07]
It's really sad. 

Theresa:
[00:59:07 - 00:59:08]
It's really sad. 

Kip:
[00:59:08 - 00:59:17]
I loved when Helen confronted him in front of Anthony Cooper's house, though, and just, like, rear ended him, hucked the keys over the fence, and was like, hey, make a choice. 

Amanda:
[00:59:18 - 00:59:19]
Yeah, I agree. 

Theresa:
[00:59:19 - 00:59:25]
Because the thing is, he wants things to change, but the thing is, the person who's not changing is him. 

Kip:
[00:59:26 - 00:59:26]
Exactly. 

Theresa:
[00:59:26 - 00:59:42]
And that's the problem, is you can't change someone's mind. You can only control what you do. And what you're doing is holding on to something that you've been repeatedly told isn't going to happen. So eventually, you have to let go or you're going to die there. 

Kip:
[00:59:42 - 00:59:44]
And that was actually never there to begin with. 

Theresa:
[00:59:44 - 00:59:44]
Well, exactly. 

Amanda:
[00:59:44 - 00:59:56]
I think that's what I have a hard time with, is if he had this. I guess there was a little bit of time where he was, like, conning him, or they had a bit of that relationship that clearly he really, really needed, but it was so short lived. 

Theresa:
[00:59:57 - 01:00:04]
But that doesn't matter, because when you feel like you're missing something and you get it, you don't understand why you can't have it back. 

Kip:
[01:00:04 - 01:00:13]
It's easy to just hold on to that and ignore everything else. What did you guys think of the line when Anthony Cooper is in the car with him and says, you're not wanted? 

Amanda:
[01:00:14 - 01:00:15]
That's mean. 

Theresa:
[01:00:15 - 01:00:20]
That was so. So why isn't your car door locked? 

Kip:
[01:00:20 - 01:00:22]
It's a very old car. 

Theresa:
[01:00:22 - 01:00:23]
Yeah. I don't know what that is, but. 

Kip:
[01:00:23 - 01:00:26]
Yeah, I kind of laugh at that. 

Amanda:
[01:00:26 - 01:00:27]
Okay. 

Kip:
[01:00:27 - 01:00:28]
A little over the top. 

Theresa:
[01:00:28 - 01:00:33]
So brutal. I probably would just put, like, a note in his door and just been like, just stop. 

Amanda:
[01:00:34 - 01:00:54]
I think it's interesting because I think still we're seeing a lot of development with Locke's character. We're seeing a lot of where he came from. But I'm still not sure there's quite that connection piece yet of how we got to this lock to the firm believing, superpower lock. Right. 

Kip:
[01:00:57 - 01:01:03]
Don't you think that was in the third or fourth episode when he could walk again. 

Amanda:
[01:01:04 - 01:01:09]
So you think that is just all of it? I think it had to have started before that, though. 

Kip:
[01:01:09 - 01:01:10]
What do you mean? This super. 

Amanda:
[01:01:10 - 01:01:19]
This idea that he believes so much in things. Maybe it is just that. Maybe. But he clearly thought he could do it. He thought he was coming there for a reason. 

Amanda:
[01:01:20 - 01:01:24]
And I don't know. Is that it? Is it just that he got there and he could walk again? 

Kip:
[01:01:24 - 01:01:31]
Yeah, because you're right. He fully believed he could do the walkabout when everybody was telling him he can't. 

Amanda:
[01:01:32 - 01:01:56]
It's just interesting to me because what you see so far of his character from the episode with the kidney transplant and the episode with this, is this idea of this kind of broken, not competent man. And then he goes from, like, this, and clearly now he's angry. So how does he go from that to this? Like, I can do anything. I can do this walkabout. 

Amanda:
[01:01:56 - 01:02:00]
I can whatever. And then taking that step forward even further to be. 

Kip:
[01:02:01 - 01:02:04]
Yeah, I think you're right. There's a bit of a missing piece that we still have yet to see. 

Amanda:
[01:02:04 - 01:02:04]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[01:02:04 - 01:02:08]
We haven't even talked about Sawyer, Jin, and Michael yet. 

Amanda:
[01:02:08 - 01:02:10]
That actually should be pretty quick, though. 

Kip:
[01:02:10 - 01:02:12]
Yeah. Because there's actually not a tonne that happens. 

Theresa:
[01:02:12 - 01:02:13]
No. 

Amanda:
[01:02:13 - 01:02:19]
Obviously, they get picked up from a group of individuals on the beach. Jin was clearly had tried to escape. 

Kip:
[01:02:19 - 01:02:25]
They were made to look very menacing and very scary and very tribal. 

Amanda:
[01:02:25 - 01:02:43]
Yeah. I wasn't sure exactly what word to use, but very tribal. We've really only seen one of them or two, I guess, technically. So we've seen one of them, and we've seen the one that sorry. Calls shaft. 

Theresa:
[01:02:43 - 01:02:46]
Just possibly horrifying. 

Amanda:
[01:02:49 - 01:02:58]
And again, look. To look very tribal, to look very dishevelled, and they throw them in this very makeshift, islandy type cage. 

Theresa:
[01:02:58 - 01:02:59]
I love it. 

Amanda:
[01:02:59 - 01:03:01]
And Jen is calling them the. 

Kip:
[01:03:01 - 01:03:02]
Yep. 

Amanda:
[01:03:02 - 01:03:35]
So we see then that Anna Lucia, who you do know this is not a spoiler. If you were paying attention to the season one finale, you would know that Anna Lucia has a drink with Jack in the bar. They flirt, et cetera, and she knows information about the plane. So Anna Lucia is from the plane. So the question becomes then, I think, at this point, if you're paying attention, is, is she with them because she's their other people from the plane, or is what she told somewhat true to a degree, because most lies are rooted in some sort of truth. 

Amanda:
[01:03:35 - 01:03:44]
Right. So was she someone who got caught by them and now she's joined them, or is she a part of something from the plane? Right. 

Kip:
[01:03:44 - 01:03:45]
It's very confusing. 

Amanda:
[01:03:45 - 01:03:52]
Very confusing and very interesting. And sets up, I think, a piece that maybe people weren't expecting. 

Kip:
[01:03:52 - 01:04:00]
I think so, yeah. The way she says coming out, I hate it. I hate it. Coming out. 

Theresa:
[01:04:00 - 01:04:03]
I tried to imitate her voice because it's so, like, raspy, but it was. 

Kip:
[01:04:03 - 01:04:09]
Like, coming out, I hate it. It bugs me so much. 

Theresa:
[01:04:09 - 01:04:10]
Is it like a grading like? 

Kip:
[01:04:10 - 01:04:13]
It sounded like she was speaking another language at first. 

Amanda:
[01:04:14 - 01:04:28]
Here, I'll give a spoiler alert, a personal spoiler alert. If there was a person on that island that I was going to hate as much as I hate Kate, if that was possible, it would be Annalisia. 

Kip:
[01:04:29 - 01:04:29]
I like. 

Theresa:
[01:04:31 - 01:04:32]
That. 

Kip:
[01:04:32 - 01:04:34]
I'm in a very buddy. 

Theresa:
[01:04:34 - 01:04:36]
I found her very annoying, and I. 

Amanda:
[01:04:36 - 01:04:38]
Don'T really like Rodriguez, to be honest. 

Theresa:
[01:04:38 - 01:04:39]
I love her voice. 

Amanda:
[01:04:39 - 01:04:41]
Yeah, it's pretty sexy. 

Kip:
[01:04:41 - 01:04:50]
Yeah. And then they basically are no better off, except that they know that there's other people. They still think they're the others, though. So it's really, like, kind of. 

Amanda:
[01:04:51 - 01:04:57]
I still don't know if they have both. That's the thing, because there's also that group of people on the boat who. And this is why it's funny, because. And you have to pay attention to the kind of nuance. Right. 

Amanda:
[01:04:58 - 01:05:06]
Because we have some of those, the people looking quite tribal, again, for lack of a better word. But the people on the boat did not look tribal. They look rednecky. 

Kip:
[01:05:06 - 01:05:06]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[01:05:06 - 01:05:08]
Right. So again, for lack of a better. 

Theresa:
[01:05:08 - 01:05:09]
Word. 

Amanda:
[01:05:11 - 01:05:19]
And then Annalucia is from the plate. Right. So it's like, are all these people connected? Is the fact that Annalucia doesn't really. You can't believe that there isn't a boy there because she said that. 

Amanda:
[01:05:19 - 01:05:28]
Because she's with them. Is Walt. There are the boat people and these people the same? Are all those people, if they're the same, the others, what's happening? Right. 

Kip:
[01:05:28 - 01:05:32]
Okay, so one final question before we get into the rankings. The rankings. 

Theresa:
[01:05:33 - 01:05:33]
Okay. 

Kip:
[01:05:35 - 01:05:46]
Do you think they had to moisten the actors because they always look so sweaty, or did the humidity of Hawaii help because they always look sweaty? 

Amanda:
[01:05:47 - 01:05:49]
It does look very natural. 

Theresa:
[01:05:50 - 01:06:03]
I think it's a combination. I think some people probably don't sweat as much. I think some people sweat a lot, but I think some days are going to be, like, colder than others and whatever. So I think those days, they probably. 

Kip:
[01:06:03 - 01:06:04]
Had to moisten them. 

Theresa:
[01:06:04 - 01:06:15]
Probably had to spritz them a bit. Probably with a little mix of oil to make them have that sheen because water is just wet, but sweat is, like, wet and somehow greasy. 

Kip:
[01:06:17 - 01:06:17]
Yes. 

Theresa:
[01:06:17 - 01:06:26]
Probably a nice little kind of salad dressing mix kind of situation without any seasoning because you know how oil and water don't mix. 

Amanda:
[01:06:27 - 01:06:29]
So glad you answered. 

Kip:
[01:06:30 - 01:06:38]
Well, I was thinking about it. Jack and Desmond in that scene together, they were very wet. 

Amanda:
[01:06:38 - 01:06:39]
They were. 

Theresa:
[01:06:39 - 01:06:41]
Can you imagine what they must smell like? 

Kip:
[01:06:41 - 01:06:42]
Not good. 

Theresa:
[01:06:42 - 01:06:53]
Also, the Desmond, like, pay Desmond enough dues knowing that before he had someone there that he split the shift with, and now he is by himself, which means every 108 minutes. 

Kip:
[01:06:53 - 01:06:54]
How does he sleep? 

Amanda:
[01:06:55 - 01:06:56]
He can't even get 2 hours of sleep. 

Kip:
[01:06:56 - 01:06:57]
Did we talk about this? 

Theresa:
[01:06:57 - 01:07:05]
I think we did. But then I was just thinking about how at the beginning of season two, we saw his whole morning routine. Does he do that every 108 minutes? 

Amanda:
[01:07:05 - 01:07:07]
I know, probably not. 

Kip:
[01:07:07 - 01:07:07]
No. 

Theresa:
[01:07:07 - 01:07:21]
That's very wasteful. But it's just kind of like I forgot that he had had someone. So when he mentions it, I was like, oh, my God, that would have been so much easier. But you put earplugs in, you sleep through the night, and now you've probably gone a little nuts for sure. 

Amanda:
[01:07:21 - 01:07:54]
So the last thing we need to talk about before we move on to the ranking is that quote. So they say this episode has one of the most iconic things you will hear from lost, and that is that quote between Jack and locke about jack saying, why do you find it so hard to believe? Or that's what locke says to jack. Locke says, why do you find it so hard to believe? And Jack says, why do you find it so easy? 

Amanda:
[01:07:54 - 01:07:57]
And Locke says, it's never been easy. 

Theresa:
[01:07:58 - 01:07:59]
It's never been easy. 

Kip:
[01:08:00 - 01:08:01]
That's pretty good. 

Amanda:
[01:08:01 - 01:08:26]
That's pretty good. And that is, like, something that is every time you think of lost, every meme, every whatever that is a very iconic. It basically sums up what they both feel and then gives a little bit of insight into the fact that it's not easy to lock, to do that. Right. And I think he's probably right, because I think that fundamentally, it would be easier to be Jack. 

Amanda:
[01:08:27 - 01:08:35]
Right. In terms of it's so much easier to just assume that nothing is real, to assume that there's nothing beyond this. 

Kip:
[01:08:35 - 01:08:38]
It's a plausible explanation for everything, because. 

Amanda:
[01:08:38 - 01:08:53]
He then doesn't have to look too further into anything. And he can control. I think for Jack, a big fundamental piece of it is control. And when he doesn't have that, he struggles. And Locke is able to surrender a lot of that control in some ways, right? 

Kip:
[01:08:54 - 01:09:09]
To a degree, yeah. Because we did see how it's not easy for him with his little freak out around the computer. He tosses the tool chest and yells into the air. But, yeah, I love Locke. 

Theresa:
[01:09:09 - 01:09:11]
I'm sorry. I just had this moment. 

Kip:
[01:09:11 - 01:09:12]
Wow. 

Theresa:
[01:09:12 - 01:09:29]
Thinking about. I just had this moment thinking about how it's never been easy. So you think about the life that we've seen so far. His dad came out of nowhere, conned him, still held on to hope, and the belief that his dad was going to come back. He is paralysed, comes on the island no longer. 

Theresa:
[01:09:32 - 01:09:33]
All of these things. 

Kip:
[01:09:34 - 01:09:34]
What, friend? 

Theresa:
[01:09:35 - 01:09:48]
I was just thinking about how Boone died. And it's all for this hatch. Now he's inside, but he still doesn't know, but he's still holding on to this hope. And a part of me is like, is it because he believes. He obviously believes that there's a purpose, right. 

Theresa:
[01:09:48 - 01:10:15]
And that there's something to say about his faith in things. He's had so many bad things happen to him that we've seen so far, and he still holds on like, yes, his faith wavers sometimes, but the fact that he's still willing to go on and willing to believe, even when it's shaky, is kind of an amazing thing when you think about it. No, I don't know. 

Kip:
[01:10:15 - 01:10:16]
Okay. I'm sorry. 

Theresa:
[01:10:16 - 01:10:24]
Yeah. I don't know. I was just thinking about. I'm like, if I had had that many bad things happen to me. I don't know that I would have that same outlook on things. 

Theresa:
[01:10:24 - 01:10:24]
I don't know. 

Amanda:
[01:10:25 - 01:10:26]
You shouldn't, though. Yeah. 

Kip:
[01:10:26 - 01:10:28]
I don't know if this is healthy. 

Theresa:
[01:10:28 - 01:10:40]
No, but I'm just thinking, like, if I lost my kidney, clearly have some kind of sad life. Paralysed. I go home, I crash, which should be terrible. 

Kip:
[01:10:40 - 01:10:43]
We remember how disgusting his apartment was. 

Theresa:
[01:10:43 - 01:11:09]
Yes, but you know what I mean? And now you're walking and it kind of makes sense that he's so looking back, all of a sudden I'm realising him being happy on the island kind of makes sense because the alternative is really terrible. And the fact that he is still standing. I don't know. I think about some of the things that I've gone through and if I had, there are days where I'm just like. 

Theresa:
[01:11:10 - 01:11:13]
You know what I mean? And he's still, like, believing. 

Kip:
[01:11:13 - 01:11:16]
And I think that is why he's saying it's not easy. 

Theresa:
[01:11:16 - 01:11:24]
No, it's not easy. And that's why I'm like, good for you. Because that's a lot of bad things already. And we all know we've only seen. 

Kip:
[01:11:24 - 01:11:26]
A couple episodes of his. 

Amanda:
[01:11:26 - 01:11:27]
It's always bad. 

Theresa:
[01:11:27 - 01:11:29]
And we don't even know how you got fair. 

Kip:
[01:11:29 - 01:11:31]
That's pretty much everybody on the island, though. 

Theresa:
[01:11:31 - 01:11:32]
Oh, they've had rough. 

Kip:
[01:11:32 - 01:11:32]
Good. 

Amanda:
[01:11:32 - 01:11:37]
They just like, watch nice episode of them. Just like having a nice family dinner. Charlie has. 

Theresa:
[01:11:40 - 01:11:43]
But that's what I mean. Right. It's actually kind of impressive. 

Amanda:
[01:11:43 - 01:11:54]
All right, well, I think that we need. Speaking of character and character development and the introduction of one new character, I think it's time for Teresa to give us her rankings. 

Kip:
[01:11:54 - 01:11:55]
Yep. 

Amanda:
[01:11:55 - 01:11:56]
Yay. 

Theresa:
[01:11:58 - 01:12:15]
Teresa's rankings. Little lost Rock. ASMR at the bottom. He didn't do anything today, Michael. Then it's Shannon. 

Kip:
[01:12:15 - 01:12:16]
Where are the points? 

Theresa:
[01:12:16 - 01:12:36]
Oh, negative 1355. Shannon, negative 955. Kate, negative 285. Anna Lucia coming in negative 40. We've got our lovely Desmond with 60 points. 

Theresa:
[01:12:36 - 01:12:48]
Walt with 240. Jack went down a bunch at 655. We have Charlie with 670, Claire with 680. Locke with 765. Sawyer with 780. 

Theresa:
[01:12:48 - 01:12:59]
Jin with 790. Sayeed went up a bunch at 1070. Hurley number 212. 75. And our reigning queen son with 1395. 

Kip:
[01:13:00 - 01:13:01]
I have a question. 

Theresa:
[01:13:01 - 01:13:02]
Yes. 

Kip:
[01:13:03 - 01:13:05]
Did Kate go up? 

Theresa:
[01:13:06 - 01:13:16]
I can answer that for you in 1 second. Yes, slightly. 

Kip:
[01:13:17 - 01:13:18]
How much did Jack go down? 

Theresa:
[01:13:18 - 01:13:19]
130. 

Kip:
[01:13:20 - 01:13:22]
Did Locke go up or down? 

Theresa:
[01:13:22 - 01:13:24]
Down 70. 

Amanda:
[01:13:26 - 01:13:29]
This to be acceptable based on the answers to his question. 

Theresa:
[01:13:29 - 01:13:41]
And I forgot to say, we do have an honorary person. And it's who in the beginning, I called Lady Locke because I did not know what her name was until she said her name was Helen. And it is Helen. 

Kip:
[01:13:42 - 01:13:43]
We love Helen. 

Amanda:
[01:13:43 - 01:13:49]
Helen's great. We love Katie Seagal more than anything we do. 

Theresa:
[01:13:49 - 01:14:08]
And I like that she's talking to him like, no, we're done with this. You know what that sound means, folk? It means we're down to our rankings. We'll start it off in alphabetical order by first name. We're going with Miss Amanda. 

Amanda:
[01:14:09 - 01:14:22]
Well, I love this episode. I think it's really, really great. I'd give it probably a nine. So just slightly above what IMDb in general population believes it to be. I love that quote. 

Amanda:
[01:14:22 - 01:14:33]
I'll always love this episode because that quote comes out of it. I think that quote really symbolises a lot to do with this show. Desmond's great in it. I don't mind the lock backstory. I think it's obviously sad. 

Amanda:
[01:14:34 - 01:14:52]
I think we're getting some good kind of answers, some good questions. I love an episode that answers things while also raising more questions. And even though I know what happens, that's the sign of a good episode and a good show. I know what happens. I know what happens with. 

Amanda:
[01:14:52 - 01:15:08]
I know whether or not is, you know, with them or not. I know all of that that. I know what that group of people represents. I know what happens to Jen and Sawyer and Michael. I know what happens with the numbers. 

Amanda:
[01:15:09 - 01:15:18]
But I'm still really engaged with it and really excited to be watching it. So I think it's a good episode. Good sign of a good episode. And I give it nine. Nice. 

Theresa:
[01:15:19 - 01:15:22]
Next up on the Alphabet is Kipper. 

Kip:
[01:15:23 - 01:15:42]
I'm going to give it a 9.2. I also love this episode. It is very lost. I agree with pretty much everything you're saying, Amanda. And I'll sum it up with exactly what you said, that I love that it answers questions, in my opinion, but raises more questions to keep us engaged. 

Theresa:
[01:15:43 - 01:15:52]
And I did not like this episode as much as I remembered I did. But that being said, that doesn't mean I hated it, contrary to popular belief. So I will give it a nice 8.3. 

Kip:
[01:15:54 - 01:15:55]
Why? 

Theresa:
[01:15:57 - 01:16:06]
I really like the video. I think that we spent a little bit too much time in the beginning reminding us of things. I get it. Kate was in the vent. We know. 

Theresa:
[01:16:07 - 01:16:23]
And we had a lot of the same conversations for the first, like, ten minutes that I don't think was necessary. I think that filming it from different angles was great. But also, we've heard it twice already. Like, I think we're good. I also found Jack super annoying, but that is more of a character thing. 

Theresa:
[01:16:24 - 01:16:41]
And the fact that I feel this strongly about it means that it was a well written episode. That doesn't mean I, yeah, I don't, yeah, I liked it enough. Like it was fine. I love that line that it's never been easy. I love Desmond's line of what are you running from? 

Theresa:
[01:16:42 - 01:16:51]
Or no, every day why are you no jack line. The jack line of what are you running from when you don't know what you're running from? Or something like that. Love that. Some food for thought. 

Theresa:
[01:16:52 - 01:16:53]
That's about it. 

Kip:
[01:16:54 - 01:17:13]
Awesome. Well, thank you everybody for listening and joining us this week. We talked about orientation. Please like us on all of our social media, Facebook, Instagram and email us any questions you have. Let'sgetlosspod at@gmail.com and we hope to see you next week. 

Amanda:
[01:17:14 - 01:17:15]
Bye.