Let's Get Lost with The Oceanic Three
We're your Oceanic Three: Theresa, Amanda, and Kip. Join us as we get in-depth about our favourite television show - Lost! We talk about everything: The Island, The Survivors, The Tailies, The Others, The Myths, The Theories, and on and on and on, but we also talk about how Lost changed the television landscape when it came out and how it still reverberates to this day.
Most of all, though, we always come back to how Lost is primarily a character-driven show. For every myth and mystery, five incredible character stories were told. They were complex, mysterious, beautiful, and sometimes challenging to watch - but the characters and their interwoven lives brought Lost to a different level unlike anything ever seen on television.
We would love it if you joined us as we get in-depth about all the Losties, what makes them tick, why they do what they do, and ultimately - what they're doing on the Island.
Let's Get Lost with The Oceanic Three
Let's Get Lost 37 - Season 2: One Of Them
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Strap in for a wild journey as we unravel the layers of Sayid's past in the gripping episode "One of Them," where we witness a new enigma emerge on the island. Our conversation takes you through Sayid's Gulf War flashbacks to Michael Emerson's unforgettable debut, providing a fresh take on the show's intricate narratives and the group dynamics that keep us all hooked.
Do you think you could survive on a deserted island? Laugh along with us as we poke fun at our own survival skills, or lack thereof, and marvel at the resourcefulness displayed by the characters of "Lost." We'll also indulge in a whimsical detour into nutrition trivia before revisiting the show's signature flashback technique, which reveals the emotional layers and moral complexities faced by characters like Sayid and the enigmatic Henry Gale.
For our closing act, get ready for a robust discussion about character rankings and the emotional authenticity that "Lost" is known for. Our Patreon supporters get a special shoutout for their unwavering support, and remember, there's a treasure trove of exclusive content waiting for you on our Patreon page. Join us as we continue to dissect every twist and turn, keeping the adventure alive until the next episode of Let's Get Lost.
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Lost Podcast Episode
TheresaActually , Kip , can you go first ?
KipDamn it .
TheresaWe're three best friends and we love Lost and we love talking , but even more so we love talking about Lost . So join us for some laughs , good conversation and let's get lost together .
AmandaHello everybody and welcome to this week's episode of let's Get Lost . I'm one of your co-hosts , Amanda . I'm joined as usual with my very dear besties , mr Kip , to my left .
KipHello .
AmandaAnd Miss Teresa to my right . Hello , well , we finally come to the episode that we've all been waiting for .
KipI for one forgot it was this soon .
TheresaMe too . I also forgot it was this soon , but I also have not been waiting for it .
KipOh , this is like one of the preeminent Hundred percent .
TheresaEpisodes of Lost . I completely like . I knew it was coming eventually , but I didn't realize it was this soon .
KipNo , because it's the 14th episode .
AmandaYeah , that just doesn't make sense . I thought it was much later .
TheresaI know .
AmandaYeah , like anyway , it's crazy , but this is the first kind of real and we're going to get into it . We'll do this on the first , but I just want to say it's like the first time you're really like unsure what's going on .
KipYeah , exactly .
AmandaLike you're kind of in real time trying to figure out the way that they are and I . This is such good storytelling .
KipOh , it's so good . Let's hear the synopsis that they provide .
TheresaThis episode is called One of them , and it's written by Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuth and directed by Stephen Williams . In a flashback , said is taken prisoner in the gulf war . Since he speaks english , he is enlisted to translate the interrogations of his fellow soldiers . Eventually , saeed is compelled to take drastic actions to obtain information for his captors . Back on the island , russo appears with a gift for the survivors that may lead saeed back to the dark side of his nature that's a good syn synopsis .
KipYeah , a good synopsis . I like the touch of the flashbacks and the on-island stuff doesn't give too much away in an episode where a lot could be given away .
AmandaAnd when they often do give a lot away . No , that's a really good synopsis . It really touches on everything . The other thing that I kind of well , you know what ? Okay , I'll get to it in my high level moment . Okay , that's coming up I have a high level thought about the show in my rewatch and these observations I'm making .
KipOkay , so before you get to high level , I'm going to do the facts . Trivia bonanza , all right . Imdb 8.5 out of 10 .
TheresaOkay .
KipViewers 18.2 million . That's down 540,000 from the previous week .
AmandaWell , charlie and Sawyer are not making it easy for us .
KipNo , they really screwed up . Being of Sawyer . We have a nickname count of three . All terrible against Hurley .
AmandaI know One was what .
KipBabar .
AmandaBut he called him .
KipBarbar , barbar , barbar , and he's like it's .
AmandaBabar , but he called it Barbar , barbar , barbar , and he's like it's Babar , let's get it right . And then , in response to that , he called him something else .
KipAmmo and then Rerun which I had to look up . Rerun was apparently a character from a little TV show and again a very large character . Oh , for goodness sake . So like they're all just very mean and I like that Hurley like stood up to him , but we'll talk about that in a little bit . Yeah , alright , day 58 on the island . So getting up there , we've been having a lot of these one day episodes yeah like one day no nights been kind of cool trivia .
AmandaI'm so excited to finally be able to whip out the sound yeah or will I whip it out ? Well , we'll see who's going to whip it up .
KipOkay , I have three questions . Question number one which beach survivor's father is the US Army soldier who captures Saeed ?
TheresaMy name is Abigail .
AmandaI should get to do this one , because you know you didn't even notice this until I pointed it out .
TheresaYeah , that's fine .
AmandaKate's dadate's dad . That's right , and that's actually a picture of a young teenage evangeline , illy very that he's looking at very cute .
KipTheresa did not pick that up at first no I did not , and we we've seen him before , right .
AmandaYes , he's been in she goes to him to be fair I didn't notice it until the photo .
KipOh really , she does go to him in that episode , when I didn't notice it until the photo .
AmandaOh really , but she does go to him in that episode when she's running away .
KipI noticed there's another character that appears later on . Lost in these flashbacks . Okay , I thought so , that's not a trivia question , because I don't know , because we haven't technically seen that yet .
TheresaYeah , but I thought so Because someone looked familiar and I was like is it ? From this or from something else .
KipInteresting . We'll get to that some later because we're probably going to have a little bit of spoiler talk . We're going to have to bleep out and put up on Patreon for this one . We'll get into that , Okay . Question number two this marks the first appearance of actor Michael Emerson for his role on Lost . How many episodes was he initially signed on to appear in ?
AmandaI'm from Minnesota , I don't know , four I'm guessing .
TheresaNo , Close . My name is Saeed Jirah and I am a torturer .
KipOh , five , incorrect Three . Oh wow , he was only signed on to appear in three this one and then two more this season , and then they picked him up for two more next season , and then , when next season started filming , they just put him on as a regular that's crazy , yeah , yeah yeah , all right . Last question what show did michael emerson win win an Emmy for before appearing on Lost ?
AmandaDun , dun , dun , dun , dun , uh-huh the Practice .
KipThat's right . For what kind of character ?
AmandaHe was like a sociopath , like he was like . So the Practice for those who don't know is okay .
Theresatwo things about the Practice Great show from the 97 to 2003 is when it aired it was just like a tv encyclopedia loved this show , you guys it is a show about a defense lawyer practice , and that is rare and it was so good .
AmandaAnyway . He plays like a sociopathic , like he's a client of theirs at one point , but then he becomes obsessed with one of the lawyers and then like , ends up like kidnapping her and stuff , like he's a client of theirs at one point , but then he becomes obsessed with one of the lawyers and then like ends up like kidnapping her and stuff like he , but he's like evil oh , that's and he's so good .
KipHe's so good in it I had for playing a serial killer .
AmandaThat's much more in depth , yeah I think after lost podcast , we need another one .
KipWe should break out the practice oh , I've never watched that show growing up .
AmandaGood , it's why we wanted to become a lawyer .
KipOh for sure , yeah I often get it confused with boston legal same um same .
AmandaIt's david e kelly . Oh , you know it's david e kelly because in the last season he fired all the cast and like re-brought in that's like david .
KipWhy does he do that ?
AmandaI have no idea , but he's done it on like lots of things .
KipThank God he didn't make Lost .
AmandaBut Boston Legal and the Practice are set in the same universe .
KipOh .
AmandaSo they had some crossover .
KipCool .
AmandaAnyway , back to the show we're actually supposed to be talking about on this podcast .
KipAll right .
AmandaSo that two for amanda , oh , two for amanda and zero for trees . I'm okay with this . Okay , I would like my . My name is henry gale . I'm from minnesota .
TheresaIt's so good that's a good one .
AmandaI love it oh man man , michael edmerson is such a good actor so good .
KipI can't believe that he wasn't really in much before the practice .
AmandaThe practice I remember when seeing him on Lost , remembering him from the practice he's so good at it .
KipAnd yeah , well , all right .
AmandaAll right . So my high level thing for today .
KipYeah .
AmandaWell , I had . I had two . One is very petty and shallow though , and it was to say that in rewatching it I didn't remember how hot Saeed was , but that you to say that in re-watching it I didn't remember how hot saeed was , but that you know . That's just like a bonus one . My actual one is what is really fun about re-watching it is that you will remember sometimes these big things . Like you remember when henry gale comes right . Do you remember this moment ?
Amandadon't necessarily remember where it was , but what I really never remember is what flashbacks oh , yeah , yeah so it's so fun because I I remember the flashback about saeed being a torture and how that came to be , and I obviously remember henry gale . But remembering that they're seeing oh , they're together is another way .
KipRe-watching this is super fun that's a good point , because I really don't remember the flashbacks . I remember like I remember them , but you're right , I don't correlate them with what is on island , often exactly so it's like oh , that's very interesting and then again seeing like kind of connecting why they're that way is really interesting when you you have an idea of where the story is going .
AmandaIt's like almost more fun than it is to just yeah , see them for the first time well , thank you for your high level in high level take .
KipI love a , a hot take yeah .
AmandaWhat do you call in this , Amanda ? What's your , what's your thing ? Give me a couple more weeks Okay . But it is just that idea of like , kind of what , what am I ?
KipWhat's your ?
Amandatakeaway from rewatching it .
KipA rewatch takeaway .
AmandaCause , apparently , teresa's takeaway is that she doesn't remember any of it .
TheresaSo hey , speaking of which , I think it's time for Teresa's stream of consciousness Also . Ok , so just so . Everyone knows , this stream is kind of Everywhere , because I was just so In shock a lot of the time by what was happening . So there's parts of this that are not going to make sense . Just a little disclaimer , all right . So one of us who chaos .
TheresaI have no idea what's going on . Have you ever seen saeed without a shirt on ? Boy's got some guns . Oh , hey , anna , you know she looks real pissed off . That um . He told her what to do . How the heck did he manage to cut russo off ? That's slick . You haven't seen danielle in a long time . I'm glad he's not letting her off so easily .
TheresaHe very clearly is saying more than he doesn't know , considering it sounds different each time . Someone's a liar . Oh , did we find some squash ? Is that what we're eating today ? Oh , sawyer , that shirt , leave it open , baby .
TheresaUm , I'm not sure why Sawyer would think that anyone would want to stay friends with him , but it seems like no one else hears that annoying noise but him . That is a big pile of dressing . I wonder what he was dipping in it . Sawyer ? No , you can't go on the same way , my friend , no more . No more , considering what's happened , nah Sorry .
TheresaDid Ruthuse herself a crossbow ? Also , why would say trust this stranger and not her ? Why did henry run when saeed helped him out ? That seems weird . Um , also , that's a clean shot through and through . I love that she says if I wanted to kill him I would have , or whatever that . But also did she build this crossbow herself and it works perfectly fine .
TheresaI don't know what sarin gas is . Does anybody else know ? Oh man , it must be nice to get a shift in the hatch and get to sleep in that bed . Sleep all cozy and nice . Can you cross the Pacific in a balloon ? How does does this work ? Where do you get all the gas from ? Is this possible ? The way saeed says , do not untie him , yowza would not touch anything . Good job , hurley . You stand up for yourself . At least people like me .
TheresaOuch , I like this duo of saeed and john . Saeed is so menacing like this and , of course , jack is mad . This , this whole thing is terrifying . This episode is scary . I mean , lock isn't wrong , but I'm also very unsettled . Saeed is very scary in this episode . I can't even think straight . And then there's these two being weird . No way he caught a frog in his hand just willy nilly . Um , okay , sawyer , that's really messed up and kind of cruel .
TheresaThis episode is so tense . I'm so uncomfortable . Something feels so off . Oh my god , saeed , I'm so heartbroken for him . This is probably the only time I feel like he actually loved her and that I actually believe their relationship . This guy makes me uncomfortable . Oh my god . Oh my god , my god , I'm so uncomfortable . Jack , why are you defending a stranger , considering you want to start a war against others ? I don't understand what makes this guy so important to you . Like , I'm sorry , this whole episode feels totally off . I'm so confused . What the fuck ? Hieroglyphs where are the numbers ? Where did those go ? Chris is not a cracker . This whole thing is messed up . This whole episode is messed up . Hey , jack , how do you know ? He's not one of them . Fyi , what it's papa ? Oh shit , is this how he became a torturer ? I didn't know . Charlie still had friends . God seriously say it's . Girls are gorgeous . You know what ? I have nothing left to say oh yeah before we get started on that .
AmandaI did look it up . Uh , what it is is ? It is an extremely toxic substance . Using chemical warfare is generally odorless and tasteless . Exposure to sarin gas can cause death in minutes . A fraction of an ounce on the skin can be fatal .
KipJesus , apparently tear and gas was not used in the original Gulf War , but in the 80s , mid , early mid-80s it was used on Iraqi people .
AmandaThat's awful . Yeah , isn't that just so sick . So disgusting .
KipYeah , so I also looked something up . Crossing an ocean in a hot air balloon is theoretically possible , but presents significant challenges and risks , and it gives a lot of them .
Amandathank you because I was literally wondering , like where do they start ? Where were they headed ?
Kipit also uses it also uses the atlantic as the example , which is 3 000 miles wide at its narrowest part , and they were trying to cross the pacific yeah , the whole thing just seemed half baked like yeah , that's crazy not at all baked just raw not even begun to be baked . I'm pre , not even proofed . Yeah , just nothing .
Survival Skills and Cool Characters
AmandaOven's still cold um , yeah , that that's , that's , but I don't know , I don't even know so I also loved the crossbow .
KipI thought that was so . She just whips out a bamboo .
TheresaWhat do you call that thing ? Arrow , no quiver , quiver quiver . She whips out a bamboo quiver and I'm like no bitch she did not just .
KipI just love how she has like caches all over the island of just secret weapons .
TheresaShe just whips it out and that arrow , when it went straight through , like , oh my mercy god , I would have killed . If I wanted to kill him , I would have , with that makeshift crossbow tied together with strings , probably vines . Can I just ? Yeah , oodos standing ovation she's really cool , honorary I'm spoiler alert .
KipHonorary ranking goes to her for that moment alone it was great having her back , but I actually did forget that we hadn't really seen her since she took charlie , or not charlie ?
Amandaclaren aaron , aaron but like it's also weird because she's barely in it . She's in it for like five seconds , we're just . She comes and goes as she pleases .
KipYeah , that just seems so on brand for her . No , I love it In and out like the wind .
AmandaYeah , she's really , she's really cool .
KipYeah , she's so cool , danielle .
TheresaIf I was stuck on an island like that , I would have died like a weekend .
KipI don't think I would have even lasted a week .
TheresaWell , I mean remember she had people with her for a while .
KipOh yeah , that's true .
TheresaSo I probably wouldn't have made it to her level .
KipDefinitely not . But if I did make it For myself ?
TheresaI was like whoa I have a little bit of survival skills and I have some lard on me to keep me warm at night .
KipWhat are your survival skills ?
TheresaA fantastic question good follow up question . Kid , I can identify some plants I can eat . Okay , I do have survival skills Amanda has when we go camping . It's not like I'm completely useless , that's true .
AmandaI can start a fire probably with matches and a lighter we're supposed to learn how to do it without , but also with a battery and some steel wool actually I've heard steel wool is a very good fire starter it is .
TheresaYou just need some magnesium .
KipRemember , not for steel wool oh , you're thinking manganese , when amanda's like I don't think we need any fucking manganese in our bodies . We looked up it's like an essential nutrient no , I've never heard of this before .
AmandaI still maintain manganese is not important to human growth and development manganese oh my god , have you seen ? Is manganese one of the things they look for on your blood panel ?
KipI'm sure they could .
TheresaDo you know the answer to your own problem ? I don't have my blood panel memorized Me neither .
AmandaWell , it's calcium mostly that they're looking for , and some potassium and B12 .
TheresaThere's definitely more than that , and D and K and E and C 50 ticks or boxes . They could tick . There's like four columns .
AmandaI would like any doctor who listens to us to tell me the importance of a manganese blood panel please let us know if manganese is important okay , we're , we're gonna contact our doctor friend and see what he says . Okay uh , anyway . Um , you know who probably doesn't have any of the essential nutrients in their bodies anymore . Any of these people ?
Kipyeah , well , whatever you get in and mango squash where was this squash ? They were they were .
TheresaThey were roasting it over the fire I think it was a delicata they were I .
AmandaI actually it looks more like an acorn squash , not a , not a .
TheresaIt looks really fun , though it's more like an acorn um .
AmandaSo danielle is cool yeah , she's awesome the coolest badass . So refresh my memory , we started with the flashback , right , because you were like so Daniela's cool .
KipYeah , she's awesome , the coolest Badass . So , refresh my memory , we started with the flashback , right , because you were like chaos , chaos .
AmandaYeah , which is not common ? No , it's not . I think the last one was with Jax .
Exploring Saeed's Flashbacks and Island Mystery
KipAnd I thought they did pretty good CGI for creating Iraq . They did On like a blue screen or whatever they used , they did . I have never seen iraq , but , yes , I also have never seen it in person either , but you can see it didn't look . Didn't look like a video game , no , just around the head you could see , just like , where the screen was behind .
TheresaOh yeah , and I was like you know what . This isn't as bad as the bear no , I thought they did a good job .
KipI thought so too . It was good . And yeah , see saeed from like the original gulf war so 1991 is so a long time ago His early flashback . What do you guys think of that flashback ? Start to the episode .
TheresaChaotic .
AmandaI think it shows a good like , it gives a good basis of what Saeed has been through and experienced and I think sometimes it's good for us to remember that like and to see where he started versus where he is and how calm and everything he's become , cause he had quite the quite the experiences for sure before everything happened .
KipIt was interesting to see him like be fairly quick to , and I think it was just survival but just start helping the americans . Like , and I think , yeah , he was just trying to survive , but he was very quick to say like , yeah , I can help you .
KipEven before , like he saw the video , like even the initial scene , yeah , I'll ask your questions , or whatever I'm not gonna like fight too hard , but I'll ask your questions and see what he says , Whereas like the other guy and then in the in the scene where they're asking the evidence , like at the beginning there , he genuinely doesn't want , like the other soldiers , to get hurt , so he like tells them to stop fretting and burning stuff . Like he shows , like he is a good hearted person , I think .
AmandaWell , and I think he was , you know , like I don't want to say the wrong thing , but I do think that , like he was involved in the conflict war for reasons like that , he believed , yeah , this was like the right thing to do , yeah , and yeah , like , and like , out of that genuine caring for the people around him , because and wanting people to just be okay , because that's shown through , like almost every time he interacted with anyone , like he just kind of wanted the best outcome , it seemed for like people to be the safest yeah , like just not to get hurt , which is an interesting like from who we're presented with often as Saeed , as this torturer , basically Someone who's capable of really bad things , but yeah , it was good .
KipI like that we got to see little Kate's dad there flashback . Yeah it was weird . Interesting moment . One other weird connection , and I don't know how the connection is , but when we saw Kate's dad in the previous episode on the TV I remember this wasn't one of the trivia questions you saw Saeed on TV in his army recruiting office . I'm so curious when that would have been and why .
AmandaWhen that would have been . And why Well it would have been is how long is Kate on the run when she is arrested in Australia ? Oh . Like two , three , four years , like it's not .
KipSo then that would have been about four years , maybe most , before they're on the island . Yeah , and I'm trying to think like what saeed would have been doing to be caught on camera . Does it look like they were physically filming him ? I gotta look that up after because now I'm curious they keep connecting saeed and this army guy .
AmandaGotta be a reason um , do we want to go through all the flashback right now ?
Amandaor yeah sure , we'll do flashback stuff I think what's interesting as well from the flashback is we do kind of see in kind of one episode how he becomes , like you kind of said earlier , kip , going from being this you know person who clearly cares really a lot about doing the right thing and all this stuff to and not wanting people to get hurt and stuff like that , to this torture .
AmandaAnd I think that he kind of sums it up the other army guy that isn't Kate's dad by saying , like you know , you've learned a skill that like and he's like I'm never gonna do this , and he's like there's gonna be a time where you need something and this is how you're going to get it , and I think that kind of probably sums it up a lot for him . I think we're going to see more how it went so much from that to this , but I think the idea is essentially that is like Saeed learned a skill that gets him information that he needs to have sometimes , and I think that's how he sees it yeah , it's a skill it's , it's , it's just part of and you kind of see lock kind of mention that too when he's talking to jack .
AmandaWe won't go too much into the odd island stuff . But lock also says to him essentially like you want to build an army and go to war ? Well , this is part of that , right , and so I think it's that idea like I still think saeed is at his core now , someone who does not want to hurt people and who doesn't want to see people hurt or upset or , and who wants to do the right thing . It's just that he sees what he does and I'm not I'm not agreeing with it , I completely disagree with this , but I think he sees it as like that's still what he's doing , but this is just a tool and how to get the information he needs to make sure that he protects everyone and everyone's okay yeah I mean , I still think he's a good person at the core of it , but I do think he gets obviously , you know , easily caught up in stuff .
KipHe must because he says over and over again he never wants to do this again or I'll never do that again , like not just in the flashback , but he's said it on the show a few times like in different episodes .
KipHe doesn't like doing it . There wasn't much in the flashbacks other than really like this is kind of how saeed became torture . All right , so let's go into on island , okay , all right . So we talked a little bit about russo . Coming back is amazing . Um catches this guy , like we . We briefly talked about how yeah , we kind of forgot that this happened so soon and even watching watching it like even when Saeed and Russo were on their way I was like where are they going ? What's he showing her ? Like I still couldn't quite remember that this is when Henry Gale comes .
AmandaAnd like so random that Anna Lucia is the person who , like , brings him to find Russo .
KipYeah , I feel like that must have been some sort of like contractual thing . She had to be in this many episodes . We need her in for a portion Because Kate wasn't in this episode .
AmandaShe was not . Neither was Sun and Claire . But Claire not being in one isn't that weird , I do find it not believable that Anna Lucia wouldn't tell anyone Sayid's like . Don't tell anyone this . I feel like she would immediately go to Jack .
TheresaYeah , yeah , oh yeah , or she would have followed , or something like she definitely would have just been like OK .
AmandaBut I also for some reason . So it's just so funny what you remember and what you don't know , what gets like conflated and everything . I thought he stayed in the air in that little like mesh cage like so much longer than he did I was gonna say I thought he stayed in that net for so long and then all of a sudden they're cutting him down .
KipI'm like oh nope , he's down just very quick but yeah , he's um , so I think .
AmandaSo it's so hard because we don't want to spoil too much , but also like I think at this point , like people have to know something is up with this person , like like it's weird , his story is weird , it's not making a lot of sense , um , but I don't think you really know what's going on .
KipNo .
AmandaI think what's unfortunate I'm trying to think if he was in was person of interest after this yeah , it was after okay so like at this point really , that his mate biggest thing would have been the practice then right ?
Amandayeah so I think that in shows in general , you kind of get this I think you've talked about it , teresa and other things where , like when you're watching a tv show or maybe whatever , and then someone like I don't know if liam hemsworth appeared in like the first couple , like oh , you're talking about it for law and order , you were saying that , like when you watch an episode of law and order and like a bigger star is guest starring in it , you know they're gonna have a bigger role because that guest star wouldn't be there , right ?
AmandaI kind of felt that way . Watching this for the first time with michael emerson , even though he hadn't been in much the practice , was a really big thing and he won an emmy for it and his arc was like very well known and he was just so good at playing a bad guy that like I already didn't trust him . And I think sometimes that's like a risk shows you make by casting these kind of like people who are like almost like typecast at that point , because it's like I don't't think Michael Emerson is coming on to play like Like the new Mr Echo . You know what I mean . Like he's probably sketchy .
AmandaBut then it's like maybe that's why they cast him , so you feel suspicious of him and then he ends up not being sketchy . So it's like this whole thing , like I said , the second he's on there it's like is he telling the truth or not ?
Kipthing , like I said .
AmandaThe second he's on there it's like , is he ?
Kiptelling the truth or not ? I know you questioned it . You don't know well , and we're led to question it by russo saying don't trust a word . He's saying he will lie . And like she says , like he will lie for a long time like that was a very interesting thing for her to say .
KipSo , like the casting works against him . We're told by russo not to trust him . I think , saeed , I don't think they would have just left him up there . I think he would have wanted to get answers , especially given that not that long ago Shannon was killed and he does he's sort of moved beyond blaming Anna Lucy and he's blaming the others , and maybe that's also why she didn't tell anyone , cause she sort of has this like truce with Saeed . Like I don't really want to piss him off , I'm gonna just listen to him and let things kind of just do what he says , because she's sort of like tiptoes around him a little bit . But like I think , with um , with russo telling us not to trust him , and the way he says things is like he's so good at that , acting like mysteriously but like intentionally , because he's good at sounding like he's telling the truth , but you still can't trust what he's saying .
TheresaThere's something about it that , like you , can't put your finger on ? No , You're just like not quite , can't quite trust you .
KipYeah , exactly .
AmandaI know .
TheresaAnd the fact that he runs right away . That made no sense .
TheresaNo , well , I mean , I guess , maybe if he was scared tortured and I I don't know , I wouldn't have run like if it were . I mean , maybe this just shows that like I'm chicken shit , but if I someone had strung me up in a net and then they cut , they cut me down , but the person who cut me down wasn't the person who caught me yeah , I wouldn't run , because then I in my mind I'm like , okay , this person could be an ally , like I should probably stick around , but the person who has a knife versus me , who had just fallen I don't know , like 20 feet , probably have some bruises and some pain but then we never would have got that amazing line .
KipIf I wanted to kill him , I would have . I know she's so cool .
TheresaShe just yeah , um
Characters and Ranch Dressing Discussion
Theresaperfect shot . Quick question what was so ? What is the first thing that he says is it ? My name is henry gale . I'm from minnesota my name is henry gale I'm from minnesota , okay , so why does he say where he's from ?
Kipbecause that's part of his story that he's telling them .
TheresaBut like , was he prompted for this or did they walk up ? And then he was like , my name is Henry Gale , I'm from Minnesota , I can't remember .
KipIs it weird ? Like if I was cut a net I wouldn't be like . My name is Christopher Gunther . I'm from Winnipeg or Manitoba .
AmandaThat's the question , though .
KipBut you have what , what I think well , I just don't remember if someone asked something , no , or if they walked up and then he was like my name is henry gallop , he's not prompted to give his home state , okay , just I think but to be fair , if she had been like you're another , you're a piece of shit you're whatever . And he came across thinking that like I can't imagine you're such a piece of shit , whatever .
TheresaI hope that's how a conversation went .
AmandaWe're like you are such a piece of shit . He's so calm and whatever .
TheresaAnyway that's crazy sounding .
AmandaBut whatever it is , I'm sure she has been saying things like you're another , I don't believe you . You know you live on this island and torture people or whatever it is . So he might just be kind of programmed to say right away , like I'm not what she thinks I am .
KipYeah .
AmandaI'm me . I'm this person from Minnesota . Like I'm not from here . I'm not an other . Whatever this crazy bitch thinks , I'm not that .
KipYeah , that's fair , so it could be that .
AmandaI agree it's kind of stupid , but also it gives us the best line and probably the entire series , one of his best . Yeah , not of the whole oh , it might be up there for me , even just intent . Like my name is henry gill , it's my favorite thing to quote from this , but um , no , I , in the context you're putting forward , amanda makes sense but it does just .
AmandaIt does kind of seem out of , but everything does just there's no like trusting him , like there's just nothing about him . And the funniest thing is is his story is ridiculous , but it's not that ridiculous , like . Everything is like just slightly weird with this guy . Yeah .
KipYeah Right the ballooning . Yeah , kind of like Bearing his wife . Yeah , all these His he's rich .
AmandaYeah , he mines non-metallic minerals , his wife .
KipNon-metallic , like it's all just too perfect , almost yeah .
AmandaYeah .
KipA little too rehearsed sounding Maybe .
AmandaEven just in the beginning him right away , whatever . What I find interesting is and maybe I just missed this , but why saeed is so in the beginning is so much like we have to cut him down . We don't know what's going on with this guy . What are you thinking ? Whatever cuts him down , he runs , tries to run , she shoots him and then he's like 100 on board with like taking him back and and and interrogating him like what changed ? Was it just the running ?
Kipno , I think . I think that's what he intended all along yeah , I think so too . He just meant like yeah , I think he might have like tried to get him there willingly maybe , but then she shot him okay , maybe walk him over .
TheresaSo , good , snipped , I carry , carry a whole body on his back all the way back to camp by himself .
KipAnd he tells Locke right away , wakes Locke up .
TheresaI love that . It's just the picture of a sleeping baby . Yeah , he's so comfy , he's so just toasty .
AmandaHe's having a better sleep than Sawyer With that stupid frog beeline . Can we get ?
Kipthis B-plot out of the way .
TheresaYeah .
KipIt's like it's so stupid .
TheresaYeah , I didn't love it . I loved him waking up with his shirt open . Yeah , delicious .
KipI'm so mad at him Well and that's the funny thing is like Jin won't talk to him and he's like all surprised , I know . Yeah .
AmandaI didn't get that Like literally yesterday . I literally yelled that the night before what do you think's gonna happen ?
Theresahere , buddy , yesterday you said there's a new sheriff in town and you called me killer frog .
AmandaNo one wants to do that would be weird . Like you know , he's an idiot . It was weird .
KipI don't know why . They must have been searching for some sort of b plot to put in here . But that was a strange decision it was weird .
TheresaThe only thing I think we really get from it is that Hurley is finally starting to like stand up to him , which was fantastic .
AmandaNot that it got him anywhere , because he still killed the frog and put it in Hurley's hand .
KipYou get an apology out of Sawyer though Don't get those too often that's pretty good .
AmandaOkay . In terms of the B plot , I think it's dumb . I don't think it moved the storyline out . In terms of the B plot , I think it's dumb . I don't think it moved the storyline out , other than to show that everyone's still mad at Sawyer and Hurley to stand up and be like I . Might be whatever , but at least people like me . What the hell was he dipping in ranch dressing ? That's what I said . Was it mango ?
KipI thought it was crackers or something .
TheresaOkay , I thought it was a pepper .
AmandaA pepper makes sense . I thought it was a pepper . A pepper makes sense .
TheresaI thought it was yellow , for sure . Yeah , I thought it was yellow . Where are they getting squash ?
AmandaI don't know .
KipWell , and I guess that's the other thing that this side plot tells us is , hurley has a secret food stash which does come in to play later as well . Correct In the series , but like Charisse is like what the hell is that ? So that's like one little snippet and then , yeah , I thought it was crackers or something . I really didn't notice it too much .
AmandaIt was kind of like rounded kind of he was holding it with like three fingers , I thought it was a mango at first , though , and I thought he was dipping it in mayo , and I was very disturbed .
KipIt looked like mayonnaise from the get and the humidity and time it's . On that island it ain't room temperature is not lasting seven years .
AmandaI still think it's until opened .
KipYeah exactly that's what I was thinking too , sawyer was right that after you open it you got to refrigerate .
AmandaI think it can stay at room temperature sealed for up to seven years .
TheresaDo they not have a fridge in the hatch ?
Amandathey do , but he stole it , yeah , right , so no , no , I was just , I was just thinking like yeah , just outright like , but you know they also have running water , because that's a lot of ranch dressing .
TheresaImagine no one maintaining these things I don't know how often they're getting these , this food , though yeah , because , like because des is down there and he's got this giant thing of ranch dressing , the minute he opens that he has to put it in the fridge and it's not going to last seven years Can you imagine you can't have anything else in this fridge ?
KipYou have one giant tub of ranch dressing .
TheresaLike do they have meat ?
KipWhy does he need ranch ? I don't know , I guess is your question . Yeah , like , and I agree .
AmandaHow many fucking salads are they eating down there ? And like , how are you storing all of this like fresh vegetable ?
Theresato like eat , you know what the problem is .
AmandaAmericans love fucking ranch dressing .
KipIt's true . Is it in Valley ?
AmandaDip it everything in it .
KipIt's the number one condiment in America . Are you saying ranch dressing ? Yes , 100% , not ketchup .
AmandaChicken fingers in it .
KipDid you know ? No , yes , oh yeah , no Pizza crust .
TheresaPizza crust okay .
KipChicken fingers , Chips People just dip their chips .
AmandaIn ranch dresses no , get out .
KipDid you know what used to be the number one condiment in America Marinades Salsa .
TheresaSalsa . How do you go ?
AmandaYou know why ? Because it's fun to say salsa , salsa .
KipIf anyone can let us know that little reference , let us know on our socials .
TheresaTeresa is out to lunch on that one she's seen the whole show , though , so she should . No , I haven't .
KipI haven't seen the last season well , it's definitely on the last season oh , I know what it's from . Okay , okay , I got it all right . So yeah , b-plot
Analysis of Sawyer's Character Development
Kiplame . So , sawyer , what ?
Amandaa jerk .
KipYeah , why would you kill the frog ?
Amandathat was mean , especially if Hurley . And why would you do with your bare hand ? Like he's a weirdo like hurley was willing to take it away .
KipI mean , we all knew that's what swear was yeah , exactly , I don't know , did the frog bug no one else ? They also seem to trek a long ways , you think it would have been not that loud , like it would have been closer to his yes , that's what I didn't understand .
AmandaThe idea is , maybe it's hopping away from them as well , oh , and they're just following it this whole time and everyone else is not as bothered . I think the idea is that Sawyer's bothered by it , because I think , like philosophically , and maybe like Sawyer's bothered by it because Sawyer is just bothered , like everything bothers Sawyer right now . Everything is a big deal to him , everything irritates him because he's living this sad , lonely , messed up like existence at this point gotcha I think it's a bit of a metaphor for like what sawyer is going through , but also my sympathy for both sawyer and charlie .
AmandaPretty freaking , non-existent yeah like I have very little sympathy or concern and I love sawyer overall , but I like I'm trying to take things kind of as they happen and right now sawyer is not likable no , charlie is not likable saeed still likable to a degree , but not great jack . Not likable this episode . Not very many people are likable Henry Gale's alright .
KipSo I asked my best friend what does the frog story symbolize ? It has many options . I won't read them all . Okay , I'll read the first one Human nature and minor annoyances . Sawyer's obsession with catching the frog , which is only a minor annoyance , could symbolize how people often fixate on small irritations , sometimes to the detriment of larger , more important issues . This is especially poignant in the context of the island , where there are far greater dangers and mysteries to contend with . And then I'll read another one reflection , reflection of personal demons . The scene also can be interpreted as a reflection of Sawyer's inner demons and his struggle with them . The frog , seemingly insignificant , becomes a target for his frustrations and unresolved issues . That's kind of what I'm saying . That's exactly what you're saying , yeah .
AmandaI do think it is , and I think bringing kind of Hurley along makes sense , because Hurley is so unbothered yeah , unbothered and thriving , pretty much everything yeah right and just you know , and he has to like , he has to extort him into helping him , like it's just kind of like sawyer at his worst yeah right and like in the end it . It shows that he's not changing , because he gets exactly what he wants and he's still a dick he's still a dick and he's still lonely and isolated .
KipYeah , no , that's . So . Maybe there is a silver lining to this B plot in that it just reinforces Sawyer for who he is at this moment .
AmandaYeah , so I mean again take it or leave it .
KipYeah .
AmandaSo we see , said , and they bring Henry Gale back to the hatch , and then things take a turn .
TheresaBecause Jack walks in and he goes . You're just going to bleed out .
KipWell , I think that was a very doctor thing to say it was . But I mean , I think the doctor came out in Jack pretty quickly .
AmandaYeah , jack's doctor's showing in jack pretty very quickly , jack's doctor showing .
TheresaYeah , but also once he patched him up , he probably should have . I I don't love jack in this episode . Um I I don't think he makes a lot of sense .
KipYeah I think he does make sense for being Jack . His doctor comes out in that his first instinct is to patch him up , make sure that he's okay , and then I think , because he was left in the dark about this , he's pissed off about it and he's not in control , and so it's coming out where he's basically fighting them . He's fighting against them because he feels like they went about this without him . They should have included him . He doesn't feel included , so he's automatically adversarial towards him .
AmandaI think that's true . That's actually very on brand for him , yeah , so I think maybe that's what it is .
AmandaIt's more like we don't like the consistency of jack's character at this point , um , but I I agree like it's just frustrating because it's like he you're right , that's what it is is he didn't make a choice Right . And when he doesn't get to make a choice particularly I think , when Locke is involved with the choice he does kind of go in guns blazing and I just it's so hard to continue to watch because he just he goes about things . I think what frustrates me about jack is the things he hates most , about what's happening with other people in other situations . He always falls into the trap of also doing right , like what do you mean ?
Amandawell , towards the end of this he's like losing his mind , like and being kind of a dick , but I get it like he's got these ideas in his head or whatever right well , and I think it's also really frustrating because , rightly , lock points out or says the thing about you wanted to raise an army , you wanted to go .
KipWhy do you raise an army to go to war ? Well , this is kind of shit that happens in a quote-unquote war , and I think that's also one of the frustrating things about that stupid line and that stupid storyline of them putting together this army and like that , like from the get-go . That was just kind of one of those silly things that is done because jack doesn't even follow through on that , he doesn't even believe in it , really , as we can see he doesn't and but that's kind of jack's issue is that he wants things to be like very quick and dirty and done .
AmandaAnd like he doesn't understand that like , and he's a , he's a surgeon , right . So , like they always say , surgeons are kind of like the rockstar hot shots of like the legal profession or the medical profession , and I think that's kind of what it is . It's like he wants to kind of go in and get things done kind of and then have it all be kind of cleared up by the end of the day by dinner time kind of thing , right and not have to deal with the aftermath , which is essentially what surgeons do yeah , right , exactly , they come and do their thing stereotypically from what I little I know .
AmandaBut you know , that's what the stereotype is about them .
KipI should say right , unless you fall in love with your patient unless you fall in love and your aftermath is you have a failed marriage , divorce , divorce , but no he was very naive in thinking like we should just what trust this guy or just have him sit at the table .
AmandaWell , I think that's part of it too is like he doesn't think , like what Fine we stop doing . I want to just very clearly come out on the side of . I don't believe in torturing people .
AmandaI don't want there to be any like misunderstandings or confusions .
AmandaI unequivocally condone what saeed is doing , but what is the alternative to the fact that this is where they're at ? Jack has a hard time accepting where he's at in life yeah so okay , you have .
AmandaDo we like how we got here ? Do we like that russo shot him in the back ? Do we like that saeed brought him here ? No , but here he is . So what do we like how we got here ? Do we like that russo shot him in the back ? Do we like that ? Say he brought him here ? No , but here he is . So what do we do now ? You don't like what saeed's doing . What's the alternative ?
Kipor just like walk away . Yeah , you know , remove yourself no , he can't no and like , um , I like the line when , uh , you shot him with a bow and or you shot him with an arrow and say he says , do I have a bow ? Like fuck off jack . No , I didn't shoot him with a bow , like I loved .
AmandaHow say he just answered that question with like such sass and like yeah , I , I mean part of it probably is that it's hard for jack to like . But then even I'm talking myself out of my own point because it's gonna say it must be hard as a doctor to watch someone be hurt .
TheresaBut then he also had no problem when sawyer was being tortured so it's like that's , that's where I , that's where I have a hard time same .
KipYeah , you had no issue then exactly you were .
TheresaYou were pro it .
KipYou were like we need this medicine for this guy that's gonna die tomorrow , like that's what it was right it was , and when you say like that , it's like okay , that also makes a little bit of sense , but still it doesn't .
TheresaIt doesn't actually make sense , but no , because he was going to die with or without it and and just it's just jack , no it wasn't that for the shannon's yeah , it was oh whoops , I thought it was for the other guy .
AmandaNo no , you're right you're right and like again like we get it right ? Like , yeah , he thinks he , but the problem is , like I said , is jack's very narrow-minded . He's like get in , get out , do what I have to do and be done with it . Right , he doesn't think about these like long-term , like they can't . They have even this army thing . I again want to , just before I say this I don't publicly do not believe in torture , but in terms of information gathering , in terms of recognizancy , type work , like in terms of negotiations , in terms of all of this stuff .
AmandaLike lock even saying , like we had , like last episode , we had a conversation with them , we made an agreement , like why would we go back on that ? They're not going back on them . We should think about this more . All of that makes sense because if they're going , if there is an enemy on this island , like , let's just say , full-on , we know , they don't know where they are , they don't know how many there are , they don't know what they want , they don't know what they're capable of . Yeah , why is just building an army and going in guns blazing ? What's that going to get you ? Yeah , I'm not agreeing with his technique , but saeed and lock are right in the sense that , like they need to be doing something more high level to make this situation work yeah other than just going out and like shooting at people , right yeah , exactly , oh jack , naive jack so what ?
Amandawhat's the long game here ?
Kipwell , he never has a long game he just reacts , is all he does .
AmandaHe's just a reaction exactly and I think that is like at the , at the crux of it .
KipThe issue is that , again , not okay with the technique , but saeed is trying to gather intel that being said , I I appreciated when lock said look , if you're looking to get revenge or get back at anyone , maybe this isn't really the right thing to do . 100 and saeed was to a degree totally , but like he kind of brushes that off like why would I need to get revenge ? Kind of thing .
AmandaIt's like , well , you do and the thing is like interrogating someone yeah , that's different questioning someone is okay , police do it . Other , like you know , people do it like it's the torture it's the torture like you cannot . I that's too far and also I do think that there has been like studies to suggest that it is not that effective I've heard that many times that people . Yeah , you heard them enough . They're just going to tell you whatever they want to hear exactly I don't know .
AmandaSaeed seems to think he can tell the difference and that's whatever . So I don't agree with the torture part , but conversing with people like doing like I said , like recon , like things like lock , wanting to like actually understand the hatch and like negotiate with people and have conversations .
AmandaAll of this to me seems like , at the very least , should be in tandem to what annalicia and jack think is important in terms of security . I don't think in terms of an army , but fine , you want to take like a security type stance ? Yeah , I understand , but why are we not like ? It's not wrong to try to be like ? How do we exist within this world ?
Kipexactly . So let's talk a little bit about saeed and henry gale in the hatch there or in the armory , because it is an interesting few minutes of of uh tv it's intense , very intense yeah , some good questions yeah , and I liked there was times where you could see like did he just catch him in a lie like the part where he catches henry gale saying was rich and he says why are you saying was ?
Kipand then he kind of like doesn't think for a sec . Oh , I guess I'm just thinking in the past tense now . How's that for optimism or whatever ? And it's like I think you caught something there , said A little bit , and then , of course , the burying your wife thing . That was very , very powerful .
TheresaThat was very powerful .
Analysis of Emotional Moments on Lost
TheresaFor the first time I believed that he was in love with her Cause . That was heartbreaking , like , like it was just so sad . How many handfuls , how many , how deep , what did it feel like to put her body ?
Amandaand I was like , oh , yeah , exactly and I I believe that to my core , that he's right about that . Like that , I also found any time henry gale talked about his wife to be the parts that like were the least convincing to me . Because if like you , like , I get it's frustrating , but if you crash , landed on an island with your wife and she died three weeks ago after you guys have been there , what did he say ? Like four months or something yeah like you'd be pretty distraught , distraught , right .
KipYeah , so I did find that , and then to build on that with that scene was just so , so harrowing well , and then when I mean , like we did get those glimpses of , we're like , okay , I don't know if this guy's been completely truthful , but when they close that hatch door , when Jack drags Saeed out of there , that's when you know that .
TheresaLook , that's when you know you're like all of this , wow so good so good you have to man there .
AmandaOkay , give the man an emmy for that one look I know , but michael emerson is like a phenomenal actor like he . You know , I almost sometimes think that like if you're too good of an actor , you're just not successful , like you can't be too good yeah like , because I think , like he's someone I thought should have been , like just given way more to work with , and like he's really only done a few major things , this being one of them , the practice being another one then a show called person of interest was quite big .
KipI thought it was quite big . He's gonna be in a new um show based on the fallout series .
AmandaIt's an amazon show and like big , big budget good , because he is such a good actor , yeah , so that's exciting um , but he , he said that that looked same . I was just like , it's like , just when you're kind of like , okay , maybe say , because I think they just I mean it's damon lindelof and carlton q so I wrote this , let's not forget .
AmandaBut they do such a good job of like , especially when it gets emotional for saeed . You're like you come back around and maybe I'm wrong , but I'll say for myself I came back around to that like fuck , maybe it is that he's letting his emotions get in the way of him and maybe he is personalizing this the way that um lock suggested he might be , and maybe he is wrong . And this is just some random guy whose balloon died . And then you see that face and you're like or not what is happening exactly ?
Amandait's so good . It's like just when you're like convinced one way . Yeah , you're like , because , like I said , I was convinced before he started beating him and then he got so emotional and I was like , oh man , yeah , he is getting a little emotional . I think maybe he is letting his emotions get the best of him .
KipI think he's getting carried away .
AmandaHe found an outlet okay , that fucking look says all we needed to say , I think okay , I want to briefly talk about Henry Gale in a spoiler fashion .
KipDo we want to do that now ? Okay , so we're going to go into a bit of spoiler talk here , so this will be cut . So you're gonna be check it out check it out on our patreon um the hieroglyphics . First time we see those hieroglyphics it's terrifying you didn't like that , did you no ?
Amandawell , they make them black and red too . It's supposed to be scary , that's weird .
KipHow can they be different colors ?
TheresaI don't know how these like flippy things work . I don't think it's that way , but like , where'd all the numbers go if it's just going around ? And around and then I was like , oh my god , there's voodoo magicka . So I was .
KipI was unsettled well , that's good , because I think that was the intent it was very . It was very unsettling .
TheresaThe whole , like they were all yelling at each other . Someone's getting beat up in the thing . Locke can't put in 15 . He puts 16 in twice , yeah . And then all of a sudden , and then the things went . And then all of a sudden , red and black .
AmandaI'm like mm-mm at least you know there's a bit of a fail safe built into the fail yeah , so it's like you don't have to get it right before zero you have a few like extra seconds to do it ? Um , I actually found the fact that he put 16 in twice to be the most believable thing that's happened in this entire series . Like shit that would be me I'd be like I can't do it , we're gonna die , it's just mashed , you got like a letter t in there .
KipYou've got a q what are ?
Amandathe numbers again the at symbol by the way .
TheresaCan we just talk about how that's the exact voice I do when I'm pretending to be a man ?
Amandaeveryone's like she doesn't sound like that , literally right there that's right anyway , my point is that that was believable because when you're panicking like that . You would do that , especially for an old man who can barely type on a computer hey , he worked on a computer no , he worked on one of those adding machines oh right that
Kipwas haunted by the smoke that's right oh my god , uh , I also liked lock saying to jack before all this went down um , you know we're all others . Being another is relative . It's very , it's true , yeah let's talk quickly .
AmandaI don't think we really touched upon the jack lock part , which is very intriguing . I'll just say right now I hate when jack's like shut up .
KipOh , that was ridiculous , really rude , shut up he just doesn't even have good arguments .
AmandaBut , um , that that piece again , we've said in the past that they were going to come to blows , figuratively , maybe literally , a lot throughout this show .
KipUm , this is another big one right where lockman's made a decision he doesn't , I guess , essentially showing that he doesn't trust jack yeah but what I think he doesn't trust about jack is jack's ability to talk things through calmly , and so lock made another choice to cut jack out of decisions I mean , in retrospect , we kind of do see a pattern where Jack is left out , and I'm not saying that it's not for good reason because , you're right , he cannot talk things through calmly . He just he reacts very rashly , he's just like , or irrationally , you know , he's , he just he doesn't stop to think . But because he's like that , he's left out of decisions explicitly after being told he would be a part of those decisions , and so there is an understandable frustration there . I'm not saying it's right because for the reason I just gave about who he is , but I can get why he'd be upset 100% .
AmandaAnd I also believe that , like if I was the doctor and de facto leader , when people want me to be , yeah , and then I'm brought in to like patch this guy up and do this , and then all of a sudden you're going to turn around and just make all these other decisions with them , yeah , I do understand the frustration . I just don't think that , like at this point I think he's shown , I think Locke has reason to kind of do the things he's doing . Locke tries to explain things to him after the fact , but at that point it's too late for jack right like he's not listening to reason at that point no , and lock does a good job of explaining it .
AmandaHe's very calm and cool all the reasons we've already said . Like I said last week , I am liking lock a lot more this rewatch . I think maybe I'm just grown up a bit and I'm more mature , but everything he was saying makes a lot of sense , like I think one of the more criticisms I've heard about Locke and I can kind of still see is Locke has a tendency to have his hand in the pot without ever actually having to get his hand dirty right like he is like involved in a lot of these things and around for these things . But Locke is also always just like slightly removed enough that he doesn't ever have to take the fall for anything , and I can see how that would be frustrating I don't know if I necessarily see that too much with lock .
KipUm , I'd have to think about that a bit more or kind of review it , because I've never really thought of it that way but .
KipI kind of have to view it again with that lens , but uh , I thought he was really good in this episode . He was very calm . He was very like , smart about the situation that they were put into . Like , and this wasn't a situation that lock created either . He was just like saeed brought henry to the hatch without lock , knowing it's not like lock , found him and created this whole thing . So like he was also presented with this unknown and reacted in a much more calm , smart way .
TheresaAlso , it was never intended that Jack wasn't going to know about it . Russo even says take him to your doctor .
KipYeah .
TheresaThat was always the intent . He just happened upon it before that happened .
AmandaNo , I don't think that he's worried about being left out of that . I think it's just the idea that they did obviously deceive him .
KipYeah .
AmandaThey're getting him into the armory because they knew Jack wouldn't be okay with that and like that sucks Like if you're Jack and you know they're deceiving you because they know you're not going to like something .
KipOr that you're not going to like the fact that you're going to torture someone Like .
AmandaI get it . I get it Like Jack , you know . But then again it's this idea of him taking on the role of like then he has to be the one to fix it .
KipYeah .
AmandaAnd it's like at this point , like yeah , well , we know .
Kipyeah , he has to fix things , he can't let go .
AmandaLocke is very calm and good in this episode . I really enjoy him yeah me too what , um ?
Kipwhat did you guys think of the ending scene with saeed and charlie ? What the hell was that about ?
TheresaI was trying to figure it out . A part of me is like is saeed recruiting charlie to be his lackey the way that sawyer did ? I don't know like , but do you remember ? Do you still remember ?
Amandayeah , I think that is kind of what it is . First , like , I just want to say that I do think like , so it's how it kind of ends is like jack breaks in and essentially steals henry gale no , it takes saeed away or takes saeed , and so is the idea that henry gale is still gonna be the armory yeah close the door and then whatever .
AmandaSo I think maybe what it is a little bit is that saeed knows jack's not letting saeed anywhere near that place again , but I do think he is trying to rile charlie up into doing something about it . So I do think you're right . I think he is trying to essentially recruit him into being his lackey , but in a way a little more controlled way that saeed does , which is , I don't know that he necessarily wants him to go and do anything stupid . Who knows ? But I think it's this idea like OK , so Jack thinks I'm crazy and overreacting . Jack's probably going to get a lot of people on his side with that , but you know there's other people here who know how it feels .
AmandaSo maybe I can get him on my side .
KipI could be it , I and I . I could definitely see that I kind of just viewed it as like so I needed a bit of an outlet and I mean kind of thinking about it now hearing you guys . Maybe Charlie does make a little bit of sense in that he was other than Claire , one of the only ones like physically affected by and quote unquote , other , and so maybe maybe that's why he went to charlie . But he needed just to sort of like debrief a little bit about kind of who these people are , and I mean from the tv side of things . Like it was also a really good reminder of what we're supposed to think of others like manipulative , horrible people , what they've done to them in the past . So it was kind of like a good , maybe like also foreshadow for us to be like this little monologue about how awful those people are .
AmandaIt just was weird that it was charlie maybe he also needed the contract , yeah maybe exactly um , I that whole scene , though another part I like about it in terms of storytelling not that I think this is an okay attitude to take . Um is saeed's whole like . Do you know ? Want to know why I know that he's lying and there's another , because I don't feel yeah for what I did yeah I find that very interesting because , um , that is a very interesting moral compass to take , like a position to take that , and that makes me wonder , like , did he feel bad when he did it to Sawyer ? Did he like ?
Amandaand yet Sawyer was innocent right like kind of and , and I think maybe he did and . I think we did see that a little bit , so it's interesting to me that that's how he sees it and that is going . I find that kind of helps kind of focus the lens on , like how he got to where he is , because we went from someone who's like I'm never going to do this again to someone who's like I don't feel guilty if I'm right . Right and so is that ? Does that make it okay ?
KipYeah , exactly , does that mean you can just do whenever you want , and then you , oh , whoops , my bad yeah , and it's like , if I'm right yeah there's no guilt to be had , because it doesn't matter what I've done to these people
Amandaat the end of the day , whether henry gale is henry gale or henry gale is lying , saeed just beat the crap out of him . A man he met an hour ago who was shot tied up like that's how he's drinking . I personally think that you should probably feel some amount of remorse for hurting another human being , no matter what they've done or whatever , but saeed doesn't see it that way . No , and is it because of what he's had to do and go through , right , yeah ? Or is it because that's the only way he can justify it ?
KipI agree , I think that's a great point and I I really I love these sort of deeper philosophical meanings that we can get out of even just one snippet of dialogue and and and , really like mesh it out .
Character Rankings and Episode Ratings
KipSpeaking of mesh , that mesh cage .
AmandaWho isn't that Kip ?
TheresaShe made it clearly .
AmandaWell then , I think it's more of a mesh cage don't you .
TheresaIt's a cage , it's a net .
KipWhat is a cage ?
AmandaA place to put a human or animal or I don't know , oh boy , all right , teresa , get these rankings , these rankings okay .
TheresaSo this was super hard in terms of giving people points and taking away points , because this episode was insane . We also didn't have that many characters in it . Yeah , that did a lot , so a lot of this has stayed the same , but that's okay . Number 16 we have michael , with negatives 830 , then we have charlie negative 615 , anna lucia negative 230 , kate negative 80 , and then we have our positives desmond with 60 , walt 240 , libby 355 , jack 585 , sawyer 735 , claire 805 , echo 1195 . Then we have Jin with 1345 . Then we have Saeed with 1365 . Then we have our queen son , who has fallen to number three with 1570 , locke with 1580 , and then Hurley at number one with 1720 . Wow .
TheresaSo perchance , I am no longer sunny side up , but perchance , hurley , hurley .
KipHurley Purley .
TheresaHurley Purley .
KipYou're just like Purdy Gritty . How many points did Locke go up this episode ?
TheresaWhat a great question .
KipIt's okay . If you don't have it , that's fine .
TheresaHe went up , I think , like 70 roughly .
KipOkay , that's pretty high . I don't know for sure .
TheresaI don't have it on me , but yeah , he went up a fair bit because I was just like , yeah , that's a good point and , like I do , I do enjoy a calm head .
KipYes , yes , he was very calm . Okay , before we do our episode ratings , I'll give you my quick sneak peek into my character .
TheresaYeah , I want to . I want to know who your bottom and your top are .
KipOkay , so top place is Saeed . Yeah , and still at the bottom is Charlie .
TheresaYeah , that's fair , so he's not moving . So Kate is now number .
KipOh , I can't tell you that because I'm only giving top and bottom . Hey , Teresa , start us off with your episode rating .
TheresaI'm going to give it an 8.7 . I was uncomfortable the whole time . Um and that says a lot , um . For me to feel uncomfortable literally from first it was just chaos , then more chaos , then confusion , then unsettling throughout . Mean to feel . All that in 45 minutes is pretty incredible . Great piece of storytelling , great writing , great acting yeah , I really liked it . Awesome .
AmandaI'm going to give it an 8.5 . It's interesting because I , in my mind , I'm like I love this mind . I'm like I love this episode so much , I love this episode so much I don't actually think I love this episode so much as much as I love what this episode does and what it's going to lead to . And it's one of those episodes where , in retrospect and that's what I'm trying to tell myself is like , do I love ? I'm trying to treat each episode independently and like as if I'm watching it for the first time . What I'm trying to tell myself is like , do I love ? I'm trying to treat each episode independently and like as if I'm watching it for the first time what I would give it . When I look back on this episode , having known everything I know about the show , it's probably more like a nine nine point five . But just taking this episode for what it is , I agree with Teresa . I was very uncomfortable . I don't like the torture , I don't like that kind of stuff . But the Henry .
KipGale piece and the Jack Locke piece is solid . Okay , interesting , christopher , in the realm of what Amanda just said , like I think I would give it to . I'm not necessarily treating it as my first time watching because it's hard for me to remove that kind of remove those influences out of it , but I'm going to give it an eight because I agree with a lot of what you're saying . Amanda is how , like , yeah , I thought I just loved it so much , but I think I love who it brought on and what it's going to bring forward . Um , 8's still not bad . It's a good rating . I just agree it was kind of there wasn't very many characters in it for a show that's very character heavy . We only had a few who had great parts . But overall it was an 8 for me . Um , good episode , not my favorite . We only had a few who had great parts but overall it was an eight for me .
KipFair enough . Good episode , not my favorite .
AmandaWell , thank you for joining us for another episode . We hope you enjoyed it and we'd love to hear what you think and what your ranking was , where one of them falls in your rankings of the episode so far and for any of you who have already watched it , if you want to talk to any of us about what this episode means for the future of the show , we're happy to do so and you can check out some spoilers . Uh , if you are a member of our patreon , speaking of our patreon , we'd love to take this opportunity to thank those who have joined our patreon recently , um , and who are showing us support that way . It helps so much and it means a lot to us , so trace is going to do a little shout out all right .
TheresaSo shout outs , go to well , snaps and claps , thank you .
Patreon Membership Appreciation and Farewell
TheresaGo to our patreon , shannon , dana , randall , duane , kelly , kel , margaret and estella oh , thank you everybody for joining the patreon .
KipWe hope you're enjoying it . Go to our patreon to Kelly , kel , margaret and Estella . Oh , thank you everybody for joining the Patreon . We hope you're enjoying it . Go to our Patreon to get more cool insight , like our spoiler . Talk from today and that's it for now . We'll see you next week .
TheresaBye , bye .