Kip: 0:11

we're three best friends and we love lost and we love talking, but even more so we love talking about lost. So join us for some laughs, good conversation and let's get lost together.

Amanda: 0:25

Hello everybody and welcome back to this week's episode of let's Get Lost. I'm your host, amanda, and I'm joined with my dear friends Kippy and Teresa. Teresa is currently laying down for this episode. We're going to see if we will allow her to continue these weird pursuits in the future.

Kip: 0:42

Whatever works, whatever works for you, teresa.

Amanda: 0:45

Thank you. So how's everyone doing this week? I feel like so I've been. I'm going to be honest with you guys. I've been listening to us because I have become narcissistic about hearing my own voice on this podcast. It's actually been really good, because now I don't hate hearing my voice as much.

Kip: 0:58

Yeah, it's a good exercise in accepting oneself.

Amanda: 1:02

And I just get to listen to my two best friends.

Kip: 1:04

In a room.

Amanda: 1:05

In a room they like lost. Don't forget to be your own best friend. Okay, well, I never in a million years will do that, but yeah, I was going to say that at my work this week they put a board up where they want it, Because for where I work we have to drive a lot. So they're like, oh, we should do a board of podcast recommendations and I put our podcast as one of the recommendations.

Kip: 1:29

Good yeah, I mean, that's a great idea. I mean, if we can't be our own advocates, what? What good is it?

Amanda: 1:36

But that led me to. That led me to the question I have for you guys this week before we. You know, I'll get right into it, but what do you classify our podcast as? Is it entertainment? Is it TV? Is it? Is there a rewatch category at this point?

Kip: 1:51

I bet you there is on our directory we are TV and film. I believe it's TV and film.

Amanda: 1:59

All right.

Kip: 2:00

But I don't know, yeah, maybe entertainment as well.

Amanda: 2:04

So they didn't have a category that fit to me. So I erased sports and entertainment, because sports I mean you don't need sports podcasts.

Kip: 2:14

They have like 500 sports radio stations. Just turn on the radio.

Amanda: 2:18

Yeah, All right. So anyway, that's my, my attempt to get us more in the world. There's like 12 people in my workplace so I don't know.

Kip: 2:28

I'm going to count the downloads next week.

Amanda: 2:30

Someone's going to be like what the fuck is this?

Kip: 2:35

Are you guys ready to hear what we're talking about this week? I'm going to read the synopsis for episode 18 of season two, dave, written by Edward Kitsis, adam Horowitz and directed by my guy.

Theresa: 2:49

Jack.

Kip: 2:49

Bender, all right. Libby lends Hurley support when he begins to think the island is having a strange effect on him. And Locke's sense of purpose is shaken when the prisoner provides new information about the hatch.

Amanda: 3:02

Yeah, that's pretty good.

Kip: 3:03

That's actually not bad. You know, I'm good with that, I'm satisfied, yeah I like it, we're so satisfied?

Theresa: 3:11

yeah, we have, we're usually we usually go on a rant and now we're like don't forget to pull out the disney plus one.

Amanda: 3:17

And I don't even think we need it's perfect. Yeah, we'll take it um.

Kip: 3:21

Yeah all right, so then let's go on to facts and trivia okay, I'm ready alright, so IMDB this week rated 8.2 out of 10 okay, another low, low one it's a yeah. It's a little low on the general general ratings it's another Hurley episode. We've already had one this season yep viewers 16.38 million right in that meaty middle Sawyer's nickname count. Teresa did not like that. I said meaty middle.

Theresa: 3:50

No, I did not care for that in any way.

Amanda: 3:52

Shape or form. So I have a question about the Sawyer nickname count.

Theresa: 3:55

All right?

Amanda: 3:56

Is it just what Sawyer said, or was it all the things? Hurley reiterated back at him while he was pummeling him.

Kip: 4:02

Oh, amazing. No just the ones uttered from Sawyer's lips. Perfect, okay, so guesses?

Amanda: 4:09

Two he says something offensive to Hurley right before that.

Kip: 4:14

Three Okay for Sawyer barely being in this episode. It is ramp, Ripe, Rampaged. Rampant they are rampant there you go Of nicknnames we had five nicknames. This week.

Amanda: 4:30

Okay, he's in that little beginning bit where he's kind of an asshole that's where it is okay.

Kip: 4:34

So he calls charlie tattoo I like that one and baby napper that's my favorite one. I like that accurate.

Amanda: 4:42

I'm not sure if that's a nickname or just like actually his alias he calls Libby Moonbeam, which was so funny. Yeah.

Kip: 4:51

Sing around Kumbaya and do trust falls. The offensive one is Deep Dish. He calls Hurley yeah. And then of course there's classic Freckles.

Amanda: 5:00

Which is cute, but four of the five of them come from that one scene where he's Three of them Three of them.

Kip: 5:05

Freckles is later and then Deep Dishes is right before he gets pummeled Good scene.

Amanda: 5:12

I mean.

Kip: 5:13

Okay, we're on day 62 on the island, so quite up there.

Amanda: 5:18

Oof.

Kip: 5:18

Ready for your trivia, mm-hmm. All right, only two questions this week, okay, so question number one what?

Amanda: 5:33

game show did Jorge Garcia recently compete in on primetime television? Is it that masked singer one Correct oh wow, he played Cyclops on Team Bad.

Kip: 5:41

I never actually watched it, so I don't know what that means Same here.

Amanda: 5:44

So I don't watch it because A we don't have cable and B I am concerned that it will make me lose respect for everyone involved. But Jewel won it.

Amanda: 5:55

Oh my God, she's an actual singer, though that makes sense, and then released an album of all of the songs she covered on it and I was like that's's gross, but I listened to it obviously that's gross, but I um so that's the only thing I do. I'm aware of it. I know who like the judges are and stuff. I mean it's kind of a cool concept. It does seem to attract more like, like, like a, like b-listers, as opposed to like the d-listers that used to be on shows like that, yeah, like dancing with the Stars level.

Kip: 6:25

It's higher than that.

Theresa: 6:26

Yeah, for sure. What is the concept?

Amanda: 6:29

I don't actually know what it's about they, so it's a lot of the time it's singers, but sometimes it's actors, sports people. They are in like these elaborate costumes that are characters like Cyclops, like Jewel was the queen of hearts, so she was like in this big elaborate thing, they're very elaborate and they're like. There's no way you can tell, like who they are by like being in it.

Kip: 6:49

They're almost like mascots. Yeah, like mascot costumes, okay.

Amanda: 6:53

And then they perform each week and then the judges, and then they get like a few hints that they're like really high level and the judges are supposed to like they pick who they want to win or whatever.

Kip: 7:06

And then they also try to guess who the celebrity is, and then when?

Amanda: 7:09

they get knocked off, they reveal themselves.

Kip: 7:14

I've honestly never seen it but again cause I don't have cable TV but I've seen clips of it online and stuff like that. That's an interesting idea, it seems to be pretty popular.

Amanda: 7:24

Yeah, it does, so that that's an interesting idea. It seems to be pretty popular, yeah it does, and, like I said, the only one I know a lot about is that Jewel won it her season.

Kip: 7:30

Which makes sense. She's a full-blown singer.

Amanda: 7:32

And I think Demi Lovato's been on it. There's some bigger. They're bigger people. There's some people who are still I mean, even I can't think off the top of my head, but there's like. I definitely remember being like, like seeing it on like Buzzfeed and stuff, and like seeing who was like voted off and being like oh.

Kip: 7:47

So I wonder how Jorge did, if he did good or bad.

Amanda: 7:50

I don't know, yeah, but I did think he was on it. But cool, that's good Okay.

Kip: 7:53

So next question True or false? This is the only episode to end with a flashback walt true false damn it. There's only one other one, though, and it's not till season six yeah, season six doesn't have flashbacks it does in one episode flashbacks it does in one episode.

Amanda: 8:29

Oh, it does. Oh, my god, that's so. I didn't. Okay, I don't remember. Oh man, that's quite the flashback, though not again all right.

Kip: 8:33

So, yeah, well, there's actually two. Yeah, oh yeah, okay, all right. So that's it for trivia. We got one, correct, amanda?

Amanda: 8:47

One wrong.

Kip: 8:48

Teresa.

Amanda: 8:49

Yes, please, but hey again as I'm listening to it, you've won trivia a lot more than I think. You think you have.

Kip: 8:53

Yeah, you always think you lose, but you actually win quite frequently.

Amanda: 8:57

Well, not like quite frequently, but like enough to give me a run for my money.

Theresa: 9:01

I'm not, I don't test well, Okay.

Kip: 9:04

Well, now it's time for my high level takeaway.

Theresa: 9:08

Yes, High level takeaway with Amanda Okay.

Amanda: 9:17

Well, that's because Teresa's stream of consciousness is much more entertaining. So we have to get this out of the way. My high level takeaway for this is actually about me. My high level takeaway for this is actually about me. My high level takeaway from this is that I my follow-through needs some work. Wait, what I'm surprised that I'm even doing the high level takeaway still, if it wasn't written on that board?

Amanda: 9:36

I don't think I would, because you know what I realized listening to an episode today. I said that for the rest of the season my sound was always going to be a quote from the show a total of two times oh my god so, yeah, I like as much as teresa has a hard time like remembering what happened on the show, I have a hard time with being consistent on top of what we're talking about from the show because how many books have you read? None, I mean I've read books, have I read watershed now?

Amanda: 10:06

no, but I own it and it's sitting on my desk. Um, I'm going to do them all before the end of the show, though they can be the end of this.

Kip: 10:13

Well, I that that's um brave of you to say, because in season three, sawyer reads a shit ton I know I'm so excited, are you?

Amanda: 10:24

yeah, I am too.

Kip: 10:26

I'm very excited to hear I'm to read your I mean like to be fair like oh god, it's me.

Theresa: 10:30

Margaret's gonna take me like four minutes if you can ever get past watershed down is that's a.

Kip: 10:36

That's a slog. It's a hefty one to start with.

Theresa: 10:39

There's a weird start, I'm sure it's. I mean, it's all he found are you gonna read bad twin?

Amanda: 10:45

maybe, if I can find it, yeah, I thought they released it.

Kip: 10:48

But bad twin is the manuscript that they find on the beach, but I'm pretty sure they made one of it. And now it's time for theresa's dream of consciousness also, oh my god, how cute are libyan.

Theresa: 11:03

Hurley, though. Do people shave on the island? Oh, he has his own stash of food. Um, maybe let's just put it back in the hatch. Put the food back in the hatch. Don't get rid of it the way I think you're going to get rid of it. Remember you're on a deserted island. Oh, okay, yep, we are in fact, wasting food and our limited resources. Fantastic, that could have fed some folks for a while.

Theresa: 11:35

You know, I get the catharsis of what's happening, but we are also stranded. My friend, oh, oh no, all that work, and what did it get them? Look how excited everyone is for food, because, you know, stranded on an island, who is that in the rope and PJs that clearly no one else sees? I don't like. Let me follow Hurley. Oh, no, he fell. Oh, he's not not seeing things. I don't understand. Are we still holding it? So maybe it's somewhat real. Hurley seems so secretive, like he's hard to get to know. She's trying so hard. You gotta give her a little more to work with Hurley. I think you can trust her.

Theresa: 12:10

What accident, what happened, hurley, that you can't talk about? It's Dave. Oh, he's Dave. You know this has gotta suck for Locke Stuck in a bed. Hairline fracture On an island oh, here we go More. Hair line fracture On an island oh, here we go.

Theresa: 12:26

More lies from quote-unquote Henry, nice tribe guy, all these lies. Who knows what's real now? But it does seem a little bit panicked. Or is that just another front? Good God, it's hard. Good for Ana Lucia stopping Zaid from killing him, because clearly that wasn't a bluff, awkward. And now John is frustrated because he's not only stuck in the bed, but now he's completely out of the loop and Jack isn't going to tell him shit.

Theresa: 12:52

Hey, what you buildin' Echo? Ugh, charlie, right him. Aw, man, now I want some goldfish. I really like the vanilla cupcake ones. Oh, hurley, um, what the fuck? So Dave is there, but that's not possible. But then again, anything is possible on this goddamn island.

Theresa: 13:11

I think we would have noticed an extra person that he knew though. Oh Charlie, with his sarcastic douchery and echoes being nice because he's a nice person. Oh, dave really is a bad influence. Oh, I think I see where this is going. Ew, he put those pills in his mouth like he was going to dry salt, but they would have started disintegrating for sure. Sick, did he just throw out a cookie because it broke. Come on, sawyer. Oh, douche move, sawyer, don't make fun. Oh, oh shit.

Theresa: 13:41

I love that Jen is laughing about them fighting, but Sun is like no, you need to go, stop this. Wait, when did we move out of the caves? No one lives there anymore, why not? Who remembers this? That peanut butter was never going to fit in that backpack nicely. That's a terrible visual of wiping with a leaf.

Theresa: 13:59

Ew, is Hurley not so thirsty after eating straight peanut butter? He looks so sad. Who died? Okay, first of all, no one would die because someone else is fat. That's a deck. Oh, that's awful, that's sad. He's not responsible for this.

Theresa: 14:15

This storyline is sad. Yep, I called it, I knew it. He's real to Hurley, but that's it. Oh, so you went, but it wasn't the end of the episode. Way to mislead.

Theresa: 14:27

All right, be out, hurley, be out, don't join him. Oh, nope, and he's joining Dave. Dave sucks, what the heck. When did he take the keys? How does he know which key? Oh, okay, not a far fall out of the window. So that's something, something you think they'd have. Other security maybe, like if a window opens, an alarm goes off. You know what? Bye, dave, indeed, and now dave is back. But why do you mean? None of it ever happened, dave. I will say dave is weirdly convincing, except for the libby part. That's rude. This episode is pretty trippy um hurley. Maybe we just don't listen to dave anymore. Trippy Um Hurley. Maybe we just don't listen to Dave anymore.

Theresa: 15:06

Oh, look who's up and about. How fortuitous that the crutches fit Locke ever so nicely. Oh, how does one earn minutes with fake Henry? How come Anna Lucia isn't staying with Locke during the convo like she did with Saeed? I feel like fake Henry Fenry, if you will, is still toying with them. Do magnets hum Fenry, if you will, is still toying with them. Do magnets hum? Fenry doesn't blink much and it's very off-putting. Oh my god, thank goodness Libby's here to save the day. Oh, is that what it is? He's so convinced that Libby could never like him that he started hallucinating all that bad stuff, because that's more real to him than the idea of her being into him. That's sad. Wait, I'm confused.

Kip: 15:51

She was in there too, la fine, okay. Oh my god, wiping what the leaf oh, it was so I didn't even think until you said that, how unsettling that is as a visual it's so gross, it's so graphic just poop wiping.

Amanda: 16:13

I did not even think why is it so disturbing to you guys?

Kip: 16:16

well, it's just like why is it necessary? Is this supposed to? I don't know. I just didn't think of it and then, when you said it, I was like, oh, it does look like he's wiping poop.

Theresa: 16:29

Yeah, it's just kind of gross. Oh boy, I'm not that mature, okay, sorry.

Kip: 16:36

Yeah, good recap there, teresa. I think you captured a lot of it really well.

Theresa: 16:42

Thank you.

Kip: 16:44

What do you want to talk about first?

Amanda: 16:47

Well, this is like a weird episode because, first of all, like, has everyone had an episode this season? Like we already? I just listened to everybody hates Hugo today. So, like, if it feels fresh for me, we've already had a Hugo episode this season.

Kip: 17:04

I think so, because we're already in episode 18. I'm pretty sure we've had everybody.

Theresa: 17:10

That's what I'm thinking. I'm just looking at the cast list right now and I feel like yes.

Kip: 17:15

We've also had a few doubles already as well. I know, and that's why I feel like I'd rather have another double of Sawyer, or even Kate, than another Hurley episode yeah, you know it's funny because I usually don't look forward to the Hurley episodes even though I love Hurley because I find that they are often almost like I've said this before how I don't, like, how they seem to give every other character like such depth and like a lot a lot to work with as a baxter and his are almost like jokes.

Kip: 17:47

So it was nice to see an episode where they actually are able to give him a little bit of depth and like something to work with in terms of you know the pain and and what sort of might be affecting him off island, not just other than winning the lottery, um, but even that like they still made some of the like when he was seeing dave in the woods and stuff.

Kip: 18:08

They still played that like funny orchestral music was like like instead of like when it's sawyer or kate or anybody else seeing something, it's always like this ominous creepy music yeah, and it's like mystery, right, but because it's hugo, it's like so, but I at least they did's Hugo, it's like ha ha ha. So, but I at least they did give him some and his story was very sad.

Theresa: 18:28

So sad.

Kip: 18:29

It was like a, an odd it's. It's sort of there are a lot of people that don't like it, like it's on a lot of list of like, least favorite episodes.

Amanda: 18:37

Dave in particular. Yeah, so I mean again because, like I think, just like I understand wanting to like learn people's backstory, and I understand wanting like clearly Libby's at the end, and like when you touch on that in your stream of consciousness, that like Libby's at the end of the hospital facility, so like that part's important.

Amanda: 19:08

but I'm just not sure like when, when such heavy things are kind of happening in some of the storylines, like this whole Henry thing, like I, just what sucks is a little bit is like as an audience member like I I also like Hurley and I I love the idea of learning everyone's backstories or whatever but I'm right now I'm just kind of like I want more of that stuff. I would almost like to have seen some of this when we're still building up to some stuff and having it kind of like. Do you know what I'm trying?

Amanda: 19:33

to say I want to see the Henry stuff right now.

Kip: 19:35

I know and I think what maybe we're falling into is the network thing where they had so many episodes to fill. And they clearly want whatever is going to happen with Henry to lead up right to the end. So it's like they needed. They needed a pause on the Henry.

Kip: 19:52

Yeah, and like we. So we got a little snippets of Henry in the, in the shaft or the hatch, but like to make it a Hurley episode. They're like, okay, we can just sort of like do something that's not Henry focused and cause next episode. I don't remember what it is, but I'm sure it's very Henry focused.

Amanda: 20:14

And I do get that Like, like in in some other shows, do it even more like pronounced, like there'll be like a whole episode where they don't even like look at that and so like.

Amanda: 20:23

I appreciate that they're still giving us like little tidbits and little like you know, breadcrumbs or whatever. But I just like, I think, to throw an episode kind of like this, like I think that there's a reason why it ends up on on like most like dislike lists and why the ratings are lower. It's like it's not just like. It's, it's like again another way that I think that the like show didn't do hurley or jorge garcia like justice but being like okay, we gotta do like even if that's what it is like, we gotta do some filler.

Amanda: 20:49

It's like, well, like, why does it have to be hurley storyline? That kind of like pays the price yeah and like this.

Kip: 20:56

So yeah, like we talked about his, his backstory is very sad, but I know it's never brought up again. Like never and like that's a threat. Like I get that it happened before he won the lottery so his circumstances changed. But like this whole tragedy of killing people, or feeling like this guilt, this insane guilt that he has, that he killed people by going out on the deck is never brought up again.

Amanda: 21:24

So I'm also struggling a bit with that. So, like I like.

Kip: 21:30

So this is all we ever hear about that well, like we hear about, like him being in the facility, obviously like in which, by the way, I'm so curious like how I wonder how people who work in facilities like that feel about the portrayal of facilities on Hollywood or in TV shows Cause I have no idea how accurate that is, or I just I'm curious about that. But we do hear about him being in there but, like the specific reason is, is never touched on again.

Amanda: 22:00

And like even in the episode where he won lottery, like it's not really talked about, no, it's like he's better. Where he won lottery, like it's not really talked about, no, it's like he's better now and he's like out and working and doing his thing and trying to lose weight, or whatever, but like so that that kind of. That's the other thing that bothers me a little bit about this episode and again, maybe it's because I just listened to us talk about everybody loves her Hugo and that's just so funny to me.

Amanda: 22:20

That's when, I just happened to listen to, most recently, but in that one, because the food plays a role in that one too, like essentially it's. This is like almost like the bookend to that episode, because it's like in that one he finds all the hatch food and is dealing with that.

Amanda: 22:36

I'm reeling from that, and now it's this food yeah and so what I don't like is in that episode the previous episode we're supposed to learn like it's the lottery and the like everyone turning on him and the like gluttony that comes with that that's driving this like on island fear of participating in this. But now it's this like, like mental health thing and the killing of people, like it just doesn't even really track with what they've already told us about like his his own eating disorder.

Kip: 23:04

Yeah, exactly, I know it's inconsistent, yeah, and, and they, I get that, I, I agree.

Kip: 23:12

I think it is in, because there's a lot about this episode that is frustrating in terms of where they take the story in the future, because a lot of it is just never brought up again and they leave some pretty pretty heavy cliffhangers that are never addressed, and so, like this is one of those episodes that just sort of fall because of they just can only do so much, I guess, and they just decide to take things in different ways, which is unfortunate, because it comes at, like you said, the cost of of jorge garcia as an actor and his character of hurley.

Amanda: 23:43

Well, it's just like, just like you know what I'm going to be honest, If they wanted to run this like I won the lottery and everyone hates me and all this stuff and it's really hard to please everyone when you have all this stuff and gluttony ruins people I can get on board with that and I can get on board with it and not being carried out to its fruition of a storyline. This is a pretty serious storyline.

Amanda: 24:07

Yeah, like this is like I have so many questions and like I was going to, I couldn't remember if we learned more about it. But like I, this isn't just like he feels guilt about like hurting people, like a bunch of people died and now he's in a facility for that. He's clearly very damaged. He's hallucinating a human being, exactly Like how did we go from this? To like how he is now? And I guess maybe we're supposed to see that we haven't completely gone away from it. But then it's like well, what has he been doing in the meantime? Like does no one care about this man?

Kip: 24:39

Yeah, time, like does no one care about this man? Yeah, like is he, is he just always on clonazepam? Pam but then it's never been brought up before and so and maybe I I really don't think they ever bring up the the deck story again and maybe I'm wrong, but I really don't think so. But yeah, like dave as a character is I did not like dave as a character I is I did not like Dave as a character.

Kip: 25:00

I mean we're not supposed to, obviously but, even just the way he was played, it was so weird.

Theresa: 25:05

He's very creepy and off-putting, to be honest.

Kip: 25:09

Did you guys find it weird how he never made eye contact with Hurley? And I guess that was maybe intentional, but even just looking, he was always looking down and kind of giving these weird side eyes to him when they're talking in the jungle, specifically, it's very off-putting.

Amanda: 25:26

Yeah, I don't I hated it, you know, and like there. I just I think, yeah, like it's like. Okay, let's give him some cool stuff and cool being like serious, not like I think it's cool yeah, stuff happened to him, but, um, like let's give him some more. And then it kind of just ends up being this like this all came up again because, like it's sad, the food.

Amanda: 25:46

The food. But and then because he doesn't think Libby could like him and like it's all sad, but it's like these are clearly like deep-seated traumas that he has.

Kip: 26:09

And again nine times out of ten. We're supposed to just ignore all that and be like he's just the goofy fat guy, like no, like well, even even I enjoyed the scene where he attacks sawyer because it's very deserved. But again, like it's these, it's these light-hearted moments like the comedic relief, yeah and it's like he's not given that that same depth or respect that the other characters get when they're dealing with those equally as traumatic things in their life.

Amanda: 26:28

Yeah, like this is like I said. It's almost like everything we talked about last time about how they don't give him enough and they don't give him something serious. It's almost like they hear you and they're like okay, we got to give him more. But then it's like they still don't treat it. That's clearly not what they want to utilize him for, if you think about like Jack's issues daddy issues really.

Kip: 26:46

He's just afraid he can't live up to his dad's expectations and like a lot comes out of that. Compared to what Hurley went through and his trauma, so insanely different and like arguably way worse.

Amanda: 27:00

A hundred percent.

Kip: 27:04

And yet jack are given these like emmy award winning.

Amanda: 27:05

Like well, he never won an emmy, but like emmy worthy yeah performances and like direction and all this stuff, and again we just get that well, I, to be fair, I always kind of feel that way about jack next to almost anyone, because I feel like if you take anyone's backstory like kate's like you don't have to like it.

Kip: 27:24

But like that's true and sorry watch this like mom get killed by his dad fair, jack is always just like close me.

Amanda: 27:31

My dad doesn't think I'm as good a surgeon as him like your dad's also a raging alcoholic. Like I don't know that we need to take his like word for this jack.

Theresa: 27:39

Like I don't know if you want to live up to daddy right now.

Amanda: 27:43

But oh man. But like, yeah, I agree, though Like it's like Hurley. But then it's like that's what bothers me when, like you say that we don't hear about it really again, because it's like we get hit over the head with, like Jack's and I know that Hurley is a little bit more of a secondary character, but he's still part of the main cast we get hit over the head with Jack and Kate and Locke and Sawyer and it's like this is something that has teeth.

Kip: 28:08

Totally.

Amanda: 28:09

He almost killed himself in this episode. I know he almost took his own life.

Kip: 28:14

When I was thinking about the themes of this episode. You have eating disorders, severe mental health issues when you're hallucinating, people Suicide like these insanely deep, troubling, traumatic themes that they could have ran with and actually done something really good with. But it's just, they're like nah, we want to make people laugh.

Amanda: 28:38

And then in the end it's like all of this is coming from a place of like. We got extra food again.

Kip: 28:42

And.

Amanda: 28:43

I don't think Libby actually likes me. Exactly, and her liking me is going to be enough to fix it, because it's kind of a dangerous message that this episode sends, like I don't know, it's just and it's not a criticism of Jorge Garcia. Not at all, because he's great and the direction is good.

Kip: 29:03

it's like, honestly, the writing like that I'm like yeah, this poor guy are, we are and are. Are we looking at it through like has just time changed? How we view these things looking at it from a 2024 lens of how they talk about these things from well, this would have been what? 2005 or 6 probably yeah, yeah, 2006.

Kip: 29:20

Yeah, early into 2006. Because a lot has changed in the way people talk about those themes nowadays as well. But I still think you know, you think of the writers and you think of the producers, and they were doing a lot of other great things with equally serious themes and stuff and yeah, I agree, amanda, like bringing it back to food and will the girl actually like me? Is is actually reductive.

Theresa: 29:51

Totally yeah, exactly.

Kip: 29:54

And it takes away watching it now.

Amanda: 29:56

It takes away from me from being able to get into it and and give it some respect me from being able to get into it and and give it some respect and like again, like I'm, you know that's like if you want him to be the comic relief, you want him to whatever. Like I get that back. Then, in particular, like character tropes were a lot more common and there has to be some levity to this show because like it is exceptionally serious, but like levity in the form of them, like playing golf or like exactly playing that weird poker game like to me.

Amanda: 30:23

That's the kind of levity I'm okay with like, not at the expense of like, an entire, like theme of essentially, like I said, like trauma, like and like you said, you like laid out this is like eating disorders, like severe schizophrenia, like mental health, like hallucination, things, and then like he was contemplating suicide absolutely yes, he was gonna do it exactly.

Kip: 30:48

It's like, yeah, so okay, um, let's move on. Let's get off this for now. We'll probably come back to it, but let's go into the hatch stuff. So, um, how did it start? Oh right, jack was treating lock's leg yeah, he's got a hairline fracture it's just so funny to me.

Theresa: 31:08

Jack does not like lock no, he really doesn't like it.

Amanda: 31:13

No, not at all like zero love or respect is hot between those men, right now yeah exactly but like to the point where I'm like jack, you're still like kind of acting in a quasi-professional manner right now. Yeah, exactly, but like to the point where I'm like jack, you're still like kind of acting in a quasi-professional manner right now and you're actually being kind of an asshole oh, it was funny.

Kip: 31:29

I mean, he wasn't wrong, he doesn't have an x-ray machine, he can't tell if it's broken. But like um, I thought it was funny when lock's laying in bed he's like what's happening? What's happening?

Theresa: 31:40

and jack's like. I got it oh, I know if he could give him the middle finger.

Kip: 31:45

He just did it 100%.

Theresa: 31:46

That's like Locke's worst nightmare he can't walk, he can't move around and he doesn't know what's going on.

Amanda: 31:52

And Jack's involved and Jack won't tell him what's happening but like, do you ever just like, yeah, just like, get the impression that Jack just wants to, yeah, like if he could get, if he, if Locke disappeared, jack would not be upset.

Kip: 32:08

No, he does not care for that man at all and I don't blame him because Locke is really like. There are times where Locke challenges Jack in a good way, like there are times where Locke challenges Jack in a good way, like by by challenging his lack of beliefs, challenging the way he like, thinks and does things. But a lot of times I feel like Locke just also wants to get under Jack's skin and like they're both so bad for each other, like they just bring out the worst in each other.

Theresa: 32:38

Oh, literally Yep, A hundred percent. And like yeah, it's just like, again it's like a little bit much at this point.

Amanda: 32:40

They just bring out the worst in each other. Oh, literally, yep, a hundred percent, and like, yeah, it's just like again, it's like a little a little bit much at this point. Like I get this feeling like dad, or that Jack is just always like a disappointed dad, like chastising lock, for like, what's happening right now Isn't really locks fault, though, either.

Kip: 32:56

Right, no, no, there right. No, no, it's not, it's not um, but he got his crutches. I liked.

Amanda: 33:05

I mean it was a good, it was good acting that terry couldn't when they mentioned the wheelchair and immediately was like terrified oh yeah I will not go back in a wheelchair yeah, and like that was really hard last episode, when he is like did, look yeah, oh, looking messed you know it's sad, like you know he. I hate that for him, but like it's just a weird thing like what do we think of saeed and anna lucia?

Kip: 33:25

loved it yeah, I thought it was good. I I don't necessarily buy that he would have shot him like I thought that was kind of extreme. I I don't know. He kind of went a little further than I think he would have. I don't know, know, but do you?

Amanda: 33:42

think, like I don't know, like I don't know enough about guns, Like was it also her grabbing it that caused it, like would it be one of those things where, if she hadn't interfered, it still would have been fine, or was he actually going to shoot him?

Kip: 33:51

I feel like he was going to shoot him.

Amanda: 33:53

I thought he was going to shoot him.

Kip: 33:55

That's the vibe I got yeah, like it was gonna happen. He was ready to kill him and that a little bit like why? Well, as as we're talking about it, I'm wondering if it's like okay, so saeed suspected him from the beginning.

Kip: 34:12

Eat the shit out of him and like never trusted him then he's now caught him in all his lies. He's now caught him in the depths of the. He's now caught him in the depths of the how much this guy has lied in terms of like he keeps catching him in the lies of when he pulls out that dollar bill and and it's like now he knows that he was just lying again, yeah, and like I think he's just like. You know what I am just done with you and your lies. You do nothing but lie and manipulate.

Amanda: 34:47

And it's time for this to end like maybe that's what it was.

Amanda: 34:49

I do feel like he's one of those guys that like his training and his just natural instincts and his personality like, because my first thing was kind of like why would he kill him when he think they're just kind of getting somewhere with him? But then, as you were going through that kip, I realized that like I think you're right and I think his personality of like knowing his training, his whatever is, is he's like we're not just getting somewhere with him yeah, exactly we're getting nowhere, we're getting zero places with him.

Kip: 35:08

He's, he's useless at this point.

Theresa: 35:10

Why are we keeping him because nothing he says is the truth.

Amanda: 35:13

Clearly but then the question becomes of who they are as people. When they're done with him, that means he's being murdered. Right like because I think that even like I don't know that any of them like would go to that other than maybe saeed right like being done with him, I think they would maybe get like let him go or keep him locked up, but like to be like I'm going to kill you is like a pretty severe yes.

Kip: 35:40

Very severe.

Theresa: 35:41

But then I try to remember also that, like it wasn't that long ago that Shannon was shot by, that's true. Ana Lucia, because of quote, unquote them who now, they're pretty sure Fenry is one of I like Fenry.

Amanda: 35:58

And that's why I asked you guys what you thought of it, what kind of what's happening there? Because that's what I was trying to figure out is is it like his like instincts and training and military background and interrogator, torturer background, of like we've gotten everything we can for this guy, he's disposable now, yeah. Or was it the like emotional, like it's like there's these two sides of say it was it his like logical part that was taking over in there or was it his emotional part?

Kip: 36:25

probably both I think it was both. I think the emotional part got him to that point and then the back of his mind. He he is thinking logically about it like there's there's no point keeping this guy around um, what was I gonna say?

Kip: 36:38

yeah, because he does admit now that he is one of them. Cause he basically says all that stuff about he'll kill me. I can't tell you anything. Like oh, the guy with the beard, oh, he's no one, he's nothing. You have no idea who you're dealing with. Like basically does his Fenry thing and like tries to play it off Like he's a nobody. My favorite line was later when thing and like tries to play it off like he's a nobody. My favorite line was later when oh, we'll come back to it. But when he says I'm done lying.

Amanda: 37:09

Like like oh, fenry, you're only getting started but it's just like that, too is like like would be frustrating, because it's like, yeah, he keeps lying. And it's like every time they confront him it's like, oh, actually, what was this?

Amanda: 37:24

And it was this and it was this, and it's like I don't know, like I just don't know what Fenry's I mean. I know what Fenry's endgame is, but at this point I'm like what do you think is going to happen here? Because Locke is kind of right when he's like talking to jack and he's like he could have left. He could have left me here, but he like stayed and blah, blah, blah and it's like.

Kip: 37:50

He's like no, he thought his yeah story was going to be bought. He's staying because he thought he had them fooled. Yeah, and I guess maybe he thinks he can integrate further and get as much information and somehow plan his own escape, probably.

Amanda: 38:02

And then there's a part of me that's like knowing how the storyline is going to unfold. I'm like. I'm like I almost don't buy that. He would think that either, though, and I still go back to when we talked about it last time, when he sent them to the plane or to the air balloon. And it's like did he just not think that they would dig the body up?

Kip: 38:22

Yeah.

Amanda: 38:24

And so now he knows what lengths they're willing to go to. So now, what's his plan? Because he's still lying.

Kip: 38:31

He's still lying, but I think he is lying, cause he's still lying. He's still lying, but I think he is lying. I think he's just lying until he can figure out a way to get out. Cause he lost his chance last week or last yesterday, whatever in the show, because he thought he'd be okay. But now he's like shit, I need to leave and I, if he? He's thinking I can lie and manipulate until I can figure out how I'm going to get out of here. Yeah, because he will not tell the truth.

Kip: 38:54

No, clearly, clearly, clearly but yeah, how does one earn five minutes with Henry Gale? That was funny. I thought the same thing, teresa.

Amanda: 39:02

Yeah, he's like I've earned this. Like how, why? I kind of was like I kind of wish she hadn't. She had when like what do you mean you've earned?

Kip: 39:11

and that's where, like his hubris, comes into it a lot he always thinks that, like he's either done more or is doing more or deserves more exactly yeah and uh, lock just annoyed me even further when you can tell he's just being manipulated again. Yep, by fenry. Fail just like lock. Enough, stop it. You're smarter than this, but I guess he's not.

Theresa: 39:37

Yeah I just oh, it sucks me, sucked in lock is just like it's not doing anything for me this to go around.

Kip: 39:43

He's just really bothering me that, how easily he's being manipulated well, the good news is that stops one day. Well, I don't know what exactly you're referencing.

Amanda: 39:56

I mean it's sarcasm.

Kip: 39:58

Are you talking about? It doesn't stop, oh, okay, it's continually manipulated by Henry Gale. And many others. All of time, all of time, all of time, oh God.

Amanda: 40:06

Literally, they're out there in the universe. Right now, henry Gale is manipulating a John Locke in some form.

Kip: 40:17

I cannot believe your stream of consciousness did not have a reaction to Mr Echo building the church.

Theresa: 40:23

It's because Charlie was there. He's such a boner killer. Fair Truth.

Amanda: 40:30

They ruined everything, yeah.

Kip: 40:32

I was also annoyed, like Charlie shut up yeah, like I.

Amanda: 40:34

Just what are we doing? Why are we doing this? You're not gonna tell me like and walk away. Charlie, yeah, exactly, please walk towards the ocean keep walking, never stop don't ask any more questions like what do you mean?

Kip: 40:50

like I also liked kate's with sorry when she's sort of laughing at him oh yeah, it was cute and yeah, jen laughing like that was my favorite.

Theresa: 41:00

Yeah, I know like, and then I started laughing I know, because jen's like oh, those two jen's like let's, let's see how this plays out and sounds like hello, yeah, stop them.

Amanda: 41:09

That was so funny, that was a good little scene but it was sad too, right, right, because it's like Hurley's lost it because of how much he's hurting. And because Sawyer's hitting on something that's hurting him. Yeah, you know, and that's just sad, but his reaction was funny yeah of course. Honestly, it was Jin.

Kip: 41:30

Jin was what was funny about it? Just being like laughing about it.

Amanda: 41:35

I will say there was two points in this episode, though, where I did get chills. I did get a chill when you realize that Dave, not real like, I got goosebumps still, even though like yeah, the picture he goes to show the picture.

Amanda: 41:45

I was like oh, I'm not sure. So similarly how you were like I wonder what people think about like the facilities being depicted in this and that and how realistic it is. As someone who has a job that is often depicted in in in multimedia. It's often not accurate, so I I would assume that they also take liberties with this type of job. I would think so what I didn't like was I'm not sure and I'm not a psychologist, but I'm not sure someone would present that to their patient in that way.

Amanda: 42:20

I didn't think so either that seems very aggressive to just unless someone was really hurting by their delusion, I'd have to think you wouldn't be confronted with it in that manner.

Kip: 42:35

That's what I thought.

Amanda: 42:36

I'm like, are you really gonna show? This jesus, I was like okie dokie, but for you know storytelling purposes that was. I did get goosebumps I was like oh and then I did get goosebumps at the end when you realize libby is also in the yeah, I mean there's a few things like in the photo.

Kip: 42:54

It's dark like, it looks like it's dark outside in the windows, but when they're taking the picture it's daylight, so of course that was just a production thing, yeah, but people went crazy with that in theories back in the day oh, really they're like oh, it's a fake photo.

Kip: 43:08

Maybe dave, israel and stuff, all the like, all these things, but it's not. Um, and then when you do see libby, you, you again see that it's a fake photo. Maybe Dave is real and stuff all these things, but it's not. And then when you do see Libby, you again see that it's daylight, but the photo shows it being like nighttime, like the Polaroid photo. So yeah, back in the day people were going crazy with that theory that they were up to something, but that was just a production thing. They're like ah, shit, yeah Dang it, we didn't think everyone was going to catch on to that.

Amanda: 43:32

The other thing. I just thought it was like a lighting thing, because Polaroids are, like, notoriously terrible for lighting. Yeah, they're not exactly. This is just like overexposed.

Kip: 43:40

Or when he's like have you heard of Photoshop or Kinko's? I'm like it's a Polaroid picture.

Amanda: 43:49

Yeah, you can do. We think about the whole like numbers thing.

Kip: 43:54

Yeah, I mean that was interesting. I, I we do learn a bit more about that, like about Hurley and the numbers and the fella who's in there with him, who is real, like Dave's theory about none of this being real because you're seeing the numbers everywhere and all this stuff. Yeah, like someone who's in a emotionally fragile state. That could be convincing to be, like, yeah, I guess no wonder I am seeing those numbers. Oh, it's starting to make sense. It was neat to see, like, that's where he heard the numbers for the first time.

Amanda: 44:30

Yeah, and it's very interesting. So they obviously like that is real and that guy is like maniacally saying them over and over again to himself and those are the numbers that hurley ultimately so I'm gonna say something a spoiler.

Kip: 44:42

He emphasizes the number eight when he's going for eight, fifteen, sixteen, and eight eights hurley's candidate number.

Amanda: 44:48

That's interesting. Oh, that is cool, that is really cool so that was really neat um, I love that, but then, like you, still have to wonder.

Amanda: 44:56

Like, so he clearly gets the numbers from someone and that's why he plays them yeah and we have to assume at this point, wink wink, that that man got the numbers from the island. But it's still crazy at this point like that. Then he would end up on the island, yeah right, so like you're still kind of closing that loop and it's still like an unbelievable. So I do kind of like wonder even that, like like when dave's kind of confronting him with that and it's obviously his own mind um, why that hasn't been an issue for him more yet, like when he first sees the hatch numbers back in the end of season one or whatever, and he's like no, we can't go in there.

Amanda: 45:38

We have to, whatever the numbers are. Bad news, dude. It's not like he's like what the fuck like how? Are these numbers here? And why am I here? He's just like the numbers bring bad luck because I used them to win the lottery and then everyone hated me yeah right, like even that's like not quite as like. Hurley's a smart, capable, nuanced, emotive human. He's rational, he has feelings like why aren't we, why isn't he like that kind of wondering a bit more about that?

Kip: 46:08

like I know it's a fair question. It is an omission, I think, and the show's part to not address that more. But I mean, how, I guess? How could they, without being kind of hit over the head with?

Amanda: 46:18

it, yeah, because it's like that is weird very weird yeah what are the odds like?

Amanda: 46:23

say even like he's someone from the island who was working there. Whatever he ends up in the same thing. Fine, like that to me would already be like pretty unusual, but then it's like to then also have hurley then end up there. It's. It's almost like at that point like I'm on team jack, like this is like nah, this isn't like, this isn't real this isn't, it's just coincidence. Yeah, you know, like it has to almost be coincidence, because like it can't be anything else exactly, yeah, um, I'm just looking here.

Kip: 46:53

Oh, the numbers from Leonard. Do you think Hurley started saying dude because of Dave, or Dave said dude because it was Hurley's imagination?

Amanda: 47:03

I mean, I think like the psychological piece of this would would suggest that anything that Dave does is a result of Hurley.

Kip: 47:12

I noticed Dave said dude a lot as well. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I'd say Hurley yeah.

Amanda: 47:20

What a sad delusion.

Kip: 47:24

I know Like he couldn't have like this.

Amanda: 47:26

You know, the brain works in weird ways. Like that's what his brain conjures up.

Kip: 47:31

Yeah, Sad I know, I mean, I liked, I really liked libby's story about what was the name of the man who broke his leg like I thought that was very well done in terms of, like talking him out of this.

Kip: 47:46

None of this happened because and like it's insulting to me as a real person with a real life that you would tell me you made me up or that kind of thing. I like that speech. It was just the Libby thing, Like when they're leaving the cliff there and you kind of the camera kind of zooms past Libby and she's kind of looking almost contemplative, like not happy. It could be that she's just like kind of like oh, just like that was intense kind of thing, but then it leads into this flashback of her in the facility and it's like oh. That frustrates me because I know that's never talked about again, Right, Well, I shouldn't say never, it is very briefly, but it's just like it's just one of those cliffhangers that were left untouched and they just gave it a very superficial backstory.

Amanda: 48:43

Yeah, because again it's like what are the odds?

Kip: 48:45

Yeah.

Amanda: 48:46

That all these people and they're like I guess we're supposed to kind of backfill, like I don't know, this might be spoilery, but like this idea that, like their paths would have crossed at some point, like even if it wasn't for this, like you know, because they're like yeah, I suppose maybe and maybe that's all it's supposed to be.

Amanda: 49:05

And then we're just supposed to look at these as little like tidbits when we look back on the show of like oh, oh yeah, they were really important to each other for like many different reasons and things like that.

Amanda: 49:14

But I agree, like it's like again for it to like it gave me chills and then it's supposed to be this big like revelation and it's like we never talk about it again and like, to me, like that stuff bothers, like because you're gonna we've talked about before you're gonna hear a lot. If you're watching this for the first time, oh, they don't answer questions. They don't answer whatever. And we had kind of said when we talked about it last time that like they really do provide a lot of answers, they just might not hit you over the head with it yeah, like there are some things that they just don't ever answer well, they do answer this.

Kip: 49:44

Do you want to hear the? Answer yeah so, but again, it's not. Yeah, it's not hit over the head, but what I think we're supposed to infer is when desmond's flashback when he meets libby in the coffee shop and libby provides desmond the boat for him to do the race around the world she says my husband died and I was in a very rough place for a while and I think that's about the gist of it and I think we're supposed to infer.

Kip: 50:11

I guess that's why she was there, because she was just super depressed about her husband dying. And that's about the gist of it and I think we're supposed to infer. I guess that's why she was there Cause she was just super depressed about her husband dying, and that's it though, as far as I can remember. So it's like not really an answer.

Amanda: 50:21

Yeah, but like okay, so fine, we, we know why she was there. That, to me, is the least important part of it, though, right. What does it mean that like like? Are we supposed to like? Does she know, hurley?

Kip: 50:32

Yeah, so, and I think, like that was later on, they're like I guess we should try to answer that, because to me they shouldn't even have included that. No If that's the reason. It has nothing to do with Hurley.

Amanda: 50:43

Yeah, it's like and are we supposed to infer Cause? Like she's like cause, like you said, she's kind of like at the end, she's kind of like has this like worried? Look on her face and it's like is she worried just because I like, totally fair if it's just that she's worried because someone she really cares about was just about to end their life, yeah, but like it does kind of lead into that, like it's like she's worried like the way they end that conversation between them.

Amanda: 51:03

It's like and leading into that. It's like it's this like nefarious thing, like she was there at the same time so she knows more than she's supposed, or she was affected by him, or like something right, she loves him now because she saw him there, whatever it might be Right, but we never get that.

Theresa: 51:19

Or or does it mean that Dave and Libby are both figments of his imagination and the whole island is not real?

Kip: 51:28

Well, exactly, Right Like well, no, it doesn't mean that no, I know, but it would have been.

Theresa: 51:36

But that's what people well, actually funny.

Kip: 51:38

You say that because, like, in reading about this episode, abc was like we don't want you to do this episode because we think people are going to think that this answers everything yeah, yeah they were like the produce or the. The network was like we don't think this is a good idea and sure enough, people like took it at the time being like so it is all just in people's imaginations like I mean, that's what you could infer from the way that that ended.

Theresa: 52:01

I mean, if he makes dave up and he's talking to libya and libya's like no, I'm real, I promise, and then she's there too, yeah, well then one would suggest, or one would think.

Amanda: 52:12

You know, I think how they do it and how like it's kind of from her perspective when you see her in the facility, that like we aren't supposed to infer that she's not real like yeah if anything, I I never took that away from it.

Amanda: 52:25

Like what I took away from it, though, was like this idea that, like what she was, because like she kind of so like that end little piece with them, like when she kisses him, and she's like it's all good, et cetera. And then he's kind of like, oh, we should do that again. And then she's like we should get out of here and all this stuff. And then she's like you know, people can change, or whatever she's saying to him. I can't remember. And then like and yeah, she looks kind of they it more. That led me to believe that, like, something still isn't right with her and she can't be trusted on the Island and that, like, everything she's doing with him right now on the Island isn't real.

Kip: 53:01

Yeah, it led me to believe like she's got ulterior motives and we don't know what it is yet Like, cause she didn't kiss him again. I was really no that was weird. Why didn't you do it? Let me just give him another kiss and he looked so cute too. I know I was like man she'd do it again Like so I it just the whole thing.

Amanda: 53:16

I was like is she just manipulating him?

Kip: 53:18

Is she just?

Amanda: 53:18

like and then to like see that she clearly and not to say that people who are in those facilities can't be trusted.

Kip: 53:27

That's not what. I'm saying it in a way to make you think that, yeah, so I don't know, it's just a weird way.

Amanda: 53:33

Yeah, it's a creepy little ending. We're taking a pretty emotional toll on something that's not going to pay off in the end.

Kip: 53:40

Exactly.

Amanda: 53:42

So don't get too invested in that.

Kip: 53:44

No, alright, I think we're. Are we ready for the ye olde character Arancons? Alright, so at number 16 we have our. Are we ready for the ye olde character Aaron Collins?

Theresa: 53:53

All right. So at number 16, we have our usual Michael, negative 830. Then we have Charlie, negative 670. Ana Lucia minus 30. Then we have everybody else in the positives, starting with Kate 25. Des 60. Walt 240. Libby 465. Jack 720. Sawyer 740. Claire 780. Jin 1210. And then our top five. We have Echo with 1245. We have Locke with 1520. We have Echo with 1245. We have Locke with 1520. Saeed with 1555. San with 1630. And Hurley, still at the top, with 1715.

Amanda: 54:41

There is a huge gap between like 700 and 1200.

Theresa: 54:46

Yeah, yeah, I just noticed that.

Amanda: 54:48

Who was that? Again, claire, and.

Theresa: 54:49

Claire and Jin.

Amanda: 54:50

Like that is a huge gap.

Theresa: 54:55

Yeah, I realized that when I was going 720 740 780, 1210, I mean hey, it is what it is.

Amanda: 55:00

The rankings speak for themselves that's right, yeah, I just I was like whoa, that is such. I meant to talk about that last time so my mvp.

Kip: 55:09

MVP was actually Libby in this episode.

Theresa: 55:12

Oh yeah, she was great Um.

Kip: 55:13

my LVP was Locke.

Theresa: 55:17

Also fair. Just again manipulation city yeah.

Amanda: 55:22

And we didn't, did we? I don't know like. I know we've already moved on to this. There's one last thing I have to say. We didn't really talk about like you did say like the, he's still getting manipulated by him.

Kip: 55:31

Oh yeah, we didn't really quite touch on what exactly you meant by that? Yeah, we should mention that.

Amanda: 55:42

Like how.

Kip: 55:43

Fenris tells him he didn't even push the numbers and nothing happened. So, and Locke is just like Locke, just hook line and sinker, and that's what the Disney Plus or not. Disney Plus.

Amanda: 55:53

The synopsis was referring to that's this idea that he said something that's shaken his faith Because he's like but they have to mean something.

Kip: 56:02

Well, I mean also why are you trusting him?

Theresa: 56:04

I know, he's literally lied about who he is, everything, how he found who he is.

Kip: 56:12

He's lied at every turn, and and yet this is the thing you're gonna believe but, and like he clings to this idea, like, well, he could have left, but he stayed, like as if that was somehow impactful and meaningful and ignores all the reasons why it means nothing exactly oh fuck and hence why you are the lvp of today's episode. Yes, it all gets, do you? Do you have an mvp, lvp amanda?

Amanda: 56:38

um, I think, yeah, I think libby for sure um is my mvp. I think, yeah, I'd probably give lock or jack the lvp. I just like jack's great to help him with his leg and stuff. But I just at this point I think like those two are just like, I think they just I think they need a good old-fashioned hurley sawyer fight, you know, like to just really air and I don't I don't condone that usually, but something's got to break the tension on these two because it's getting like it's almost like uncomfortable to watch them interact.

Kip: 57:09

Yeah exactly they need that, or they need a break, like they got to get out of that hatch one of them for an extended period of time yeah because it's just getting a little ridiculous. Welly, welly, welly. Let's talk about the episode a bit further. Are we going to rate it?

Amanda: 57:31

I would rate it probably. I think the imdb ratings like are the imdb ratings pretty on par like I think it's about like an eight ish 8.2 around there. Um, I do like it better than everybody hates hugo, if we're gonna. Not that we usually do a comparison to the episode that they've been in before, but when it comes to slash rex, I do do. Like I said, I find it more compelling. I just so much so that I would like it to be more meaningful, right, and I just do think that was some like really important things and I also think like it's kind of not a terrible.

Amanda: 58:06

Like Lost doesn't have to like teach everyone a lesson, like that's not what it's there for, it's entertainment, like teach everyone a lesson, like that's not what it's there for, it's entertainment, but it's like it's like it is kind of a good opportunity to have like really explored some of those deep issues and to show like the person who's like the jokey, jovial, fun guy could be the guy right, like that has all of this like it. Everyone process is different and is at different journey points in their journey. So I just wish that they had done more with hurley. The libby stuff is really cute and sweet. Obviously I would like more of the henry stuff, but what we do get from him is very much on brand of like manipulate, manipulate, manipulate, and we're just gonna see that that's gonna keep on rolling um, I'm gonna give it a 7.5.

Theresa: 58:52

It's not my favorite episode, it's not the worst episode, it's just didn't really do that much for me.

Kip: 58:59

Um, yeah, that's yeah okay, I'm gonna give it a seven. Yeah, it was one of those ones that could have been really great, I feel, but it just didn't quite hit the mark for all the reasons we chatted about. So I'm going to give it a 7 on the lower end of my ratings. Usually that's fair.

Amanda: 59:24

There you have it there you have it another episode of that's Vigilante Lost wow cool new name I'm also having delusions. Thank you. That's another episode of let's Get Lost. Hopefully my co-workers have listened to, thanks to my board recommendation. Even if one of you does, I'll be so happy, but seriously thanks everyone for listening.

Kip: 59:55

Can someone else from Amanda's team write it on the board?

Amanda: 59:58

Thanks for listening to this week's episode. Please leave any feedback, any questions, any comments. We'd love to hear. You can find us at letsgetlostpod, on Instagram. On Facebook, we're let's Get Lost and we have a Patreon. We'd love for you to join and support and get some more of that kind of background stuff. A lot of times when we stop talking about things here that could get a little bit into spoiler territory, we continue the conversation over there and oh, and don't forget our fan fiction Kip's about the fuselage and mine about uh, shannon and saeed oh, I will, yes, I, it's gonna be on there, I kept.

Kip: 1:00:38

I keep forgetting to read it out loud I'm really excited for it all right all right thanks, everybody bye.