Let's Get Lost with The Oceanic Three
We're your Oceanic Three: Theresa, Amanda, and Kip. Join us as we get in-depth about our favourite television show - Lost! We talk about everything: The Island, The Survivors, The Tailies, The Others, The Myths, The Theories, and on and on and on, but we also talk about how Lost changed the television landscape when it came out and how it still reverberates to this day.
Most of all, though, we always come back to how Lost is primarily a character-driven show. For every myth and mystery, five incredible character stories were told. They were complex, mysterious, beautiful, and sometimes challenging to watch - but the characters and their interwoven lives brought Lost to a different level unlike anything ever seen on television.
We would love it if you joined us as we get in-depth about all the Losties, what makes them tick, why they do what they do, and ultimately - what they're doing on the Island.
Let's Get Lost with The Oceanic Three
Let's Get Lost 43 - Season 2: Two For The Road
Could the fate of Ana Lucia have been any different on the island of Lost? We're still reeling from the emotional gut-punch that was "Two for the Road," and in our latest podcast episode, we're not holding back on the raw, intense discussions that this game-changing chapter necessitates. From the strategic musings of an ex-cop to the sweet, albeit clumsy, romantic endeavors of Hurley, we're unpacking the full spectrum of emotions and the hard-hitting questions about choices, redemption, and the nature of leadership that this episode throws at us.
Hold onto your headphones as we examine the complex tapestry of character interactions, where alliances are tested, secrets are kept, and decisive moments redefine our perception of these flawed yet fascinating survivors. The shocking actions of Michael leave us grappling with the heavy themes of revenge and redemption, as we analyze the buildup and the heart-stopping aftermath of an episode that dared to cross lines we never imagined. Our conversation navigates through the nuanced performances that brought these characters to life, celebrating the strengths and questioning the motives that drive the survivors of Oceanic Flight 815.
As we conclude with our personal episode rankings, revealing the rise and fall of our beloved characters after this tumultuous chapter, we can't help but marvel at the storytelling prowess that Lost consistently delivers. This isn't just a recap; it's a deep dive into the very heart of one of television's most gripping dramas, punctuated by bursts of humor and the occasional side-eye at questionable character choices. Trust us, if you're a fan of Lost who loves to dissect every twist and character arc, you won't want to miss out on our passionate and sometimes humorous dissection of "Two for the Road.
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we're three best friends and we love lost and we love talking, but even more so we love talking about lost. So join us for some laughs, good conversation and let's get lost together. Hello everybody, welcome back to this week's episode of let's Get Lost. I should say welcome to this week's episode of let's Get Lost. We are here today to talk about a special episode. It's special because we all watched it together literally five minutes ago.
Amanda:Okay, I was like I would not call this one special, and because two people die.
Kip:So it's me Kip, and it's me Amanda, and it's me Teresa. I'm all hyped up. Why am I Mario?
Amanda:We're just on a high, which is weird, it's not a high. I am, it was exciting.
Kip:It was a very exciting episode of you don't.
Amanda:You don't have to like it for it to be we're amped up yeah, it was a little too exciting well, let's hear what we're talking about.
Kip:Amanda. What's this?
Amanda:all right, we're gonna get right to it today, because there's just so much to talk about in this episode. Uh, we are on episode 20 of season two and it is titled Two for the Road, which is very apt. Written by Elizabeth Sarnoff and Christina M Kim, directed by Paul Edwards. Jack and Kate bring an exhausted Michael back to the camp with news about the others. Meanwhile, anna Lucia attempts to get the prisoner to confess and Hurley plans a surprise date for Libby 8.9. Just about cracked that 9.
Kip:That's a good up. Viewers 15.03 million. So we lost about 650,000 from last week. Well, it was kind of a dud. No, it wasn't a dud, it just was not as exciting.
Amanda:It was a valley, it was a valley, it was a valley. The peaks and valleys.
Kip:Yeah, it was a valley. So what did your nickname count? We had four, count, we had four really, doc, doc, lucy. Lucy calls anna lucia lucy. I like that. Um also calls her muchacha for some reason. What the fuck. Muchacha sawyer, what the fuck. And then he calls um lock brutus as an a2 yeah, thatus.
Amanda:Yeah, that was a good one.
Kip:Sawyer was.
Amanda:Sawyer was in fine Sawyer form today.
Theresa:He was in fine form.
Amanda:This, to me, is a classic Sawyer.
Kip:Yeah agreed, no, it was good. Wow, okay, so I got two trivia questions for you Okay, I'm ready. A trivia fact. Okay, question number one where was the morgue scene filmed?
Amanda:oh, um, was it in like the medical bay thing from the other episodes?
Kip:no, it was. Oh theresa any ideas? No, in the kitchen of the Hawaii Convention Center.
Amanda:That's awesome.
Kip:It did actually kind of have a kitchen-y feel to it, that's funny Bonus question what other scenes were filmed at the convention center from this episode?
Theresa:The airport.
Kip:Yeah, all the airport, yeah, all the airport scenes.
Theresa:That's a nice convention center, very nice.
Kip:Okay, question number two. Michelle Rodriguez and Cynthia Watros both received DUIs within how many minutes of each other on the same day?
Theresa:No, get out 18.
Kip:On the same day no, yes, get out 18.
Amanda:No walt yes, 42, no, 15 minutes, get out of here, or 8, 15, oh man, the numbers are cursed. Weird, it is insane, and I know we've talked about this before, but and how I thought they were all let go for these reasons and you determined, kip, that they weren't let go.
Kip:No, for these reasons that the decisions made creatively were still made creatively in fact, the producers were worried that people would think that and considered rewriting the deaths because they didn't want it them to a think that, but also think that this is some message about don't drink and drive.
Amanda:Why would that be wrong, though? Well, I think, that's okay If that's the message. By the way, that's the takeaway guys.
Kip:Yeah, you get shot by Michael If you drink and drive within 15 minutes but isn't that crazy that they actually thought that that would be a takeaway, but then they decided to stick with it. And then of, and lucia or michelle rodriguez was only going to play one season yeah but what's the saddest part is they only decided to kill libby because they didn't think ann lucy's death would be very impactful right, that's a load of crap, so we'll talk about all that.
Amanda:Yeah, yeah but uh, I do, like I said, I know we've talked about it before, but I do remember there being a lot of conversation around the amount of impaireds, that or the duis, I think they call them in the states but the drunk driving charges plaguing the cast. So it's interesting that they had to kind of be, because I do remember it being in magazines and stuff.
Amanda:So it's like they probably were like oh my God, like there's almost too much. They probably honestly just didn't want it to cloud the conversation around the creative decision. So I get why they would like maybe be like oh, oh, we don't want this to like seem like a statement like we, this is a creative choice exactly, yeah, yeah, it's very interesting, all right, so there you go fun fact, fun fact.
Kip:Now it's time for the high brow. Takeaway from a high brow, high level um, I actually you know what I'm.
Amanda:So we I should say that we just the three of us watched this together. Kip uh intimated that earlier. Um, we watched it together. We don't do that often. We've done it a couple times, usually for bigger episodes like this. It's always really fun to experience it with each other, um, but usually when I do that I'm more invested in, like, the experience.
Amanda:So I actually don't have a high level takeaway for this episode that I like thought about while I was watching or just have kind of come to the conclusion of um. I will just say overall, I have it's. It's not that different than other times. I've said this I am finding myself way more sympathetic to characters like Anna Lucia and Kate and stuff believe it or not, um, than before, and I do.
Amanda:I do find it sad when, um, you say that Anna Lucia's death wasn't considered, that it wouldn't be considered impactful enough, because I actually really did find myself, especially that phone call with her mom, which we're going to talk about later, but just that idea that like, yeah, it's just, I really do. I think I didn't. So this is kind of a high level thing. I don't think I concentrated on those pieces as much the first time, like those kind of like redemptive pieces, I think kind of I was concentrating more on the actiony like and the kind of intensity and the bigger picture things like those little moments like her calling back to her mom and like that really like my, I remember pieces of like watching them rebuild themselves are more impactful and then to have that happen and then have her little life taken away is just oh, it's hard to watch yeah, hard to watch.
Kip:I I will say I agree with. The more you watch it and I think too, as the older you get, the easier it is to sympathize with these characters who are initially, are very abrupt and abrasive, and hard to sympathize, sympathize with, so I I can, I can get that for sure. All right, all right, and I, I mean we've got.
Amanda:We got a flavor already, facial expression wise, but now it's time.
Kip:Teresa's dream of consciousness also.
Theresa:Um, okay, two for the road. Is this an Ana Lucia episode? Seems a lot of. Seems like a lot of her in the previously. On, how long has Michael been gone? Even does anyone remember? Jack, you're a doctor. Maybe focus on the unconscious person instead of trying to figure out if the others are around. Who the F is snoring right now. Oh, it is an Ana Lucia episode. Okay, here we go, let's see what we learned today.
Theresa:Um, uh-oh, I think mother knows also. You'd think she'd have a better alibi, since she's a cop. But okay, isn't she gonna get help from a lawyer? I'm confused. What's her mom going to do to help her? You can't just keep feeding Fenri fruit. He's going to get diarrhea. Also, ana Lucia, can you please call him Fenri? Sorry, fenri, what did you say? Oh my God, fenri, you're crazy. That was intense.
Theresa:Is anyone else kind of underwhelmed by Ana Lucia right now? Like I kind of thought she'd be able to get out of it even a little bit, while she becomes security at the airport, and this is where she meets. Christian, see you again. Wait, where did you guys meet already? Oh, security gotcha. Um, is this post? Oh, this is post.
Theresa:Losing license Christian. So he's's wait, is christian gonna meet on lucia's sugar daddy? Why doesn't this ever happen to me? It bothers me that her tequila and tonic doesn't have any ice in it. Oh, and she drank it so gross, just straight down the gullet. Oh my god, why did you name her the same as jack's wife? It is jack's wife, right, guys? Um, does she even have her passport on her? How's she gonna get on the plane? Oh, hey, libby. Wait, anna, are you trying to sew up your head by yourself? Maybe ask libby too.
Theresa:She at least went to med school. Lock, do not put your fingers up in there. Imagine it goes into lockdown again. You're fucked. What on earth is fenry? Tied to henryri might be the most terrifying. Also, we would say that Ethan and Goodwin are good at killing people. Oh, not again, locke. What in tarnation? Just chill out.
Theresa:Wait, goodwins, what Goodwins? Who's in charge? I'm so confused. What was your mission? I don't believe Fenri at all. Locke, just run away.
Theresa:Wait, why are we yelling for John? He's on crutches. He can't help you carry anyone. Oh, mangoes and Sawyer, get and scram. Come on, sawyer, she's not a dog. Oh, holy. Also, holy crap, I don't see his jacked.
Theresa:And oh shit, christian, you look like shit. What time is it for? What's it time for Christian? Christian, what are you doing? You're knocking on someone's door at this hour. Who's that lady? Oh, he has a daughter.
Theresa:Oh, I think everyone's in this episode. Maybe I hope Charlie's, not Hurley's so sweet I can't even deal with it. Also, the guy behind Hurley was picking up mangoes and then picked something up and then smelled it. Anyone else notice that? Okay, don't tell Hurley to go fuck in your fuck tent, saeed Gross. Um, man, michael is out, holy crap. Also, everyone is so tense in that hatch, damn, pin me down. Why don't you, sawyer? I'm surprised people didn't bone much sooner, to be honest. But do we have contraceptives on this island? Ah, christian's confession is so sad, hey, sawyer. And he does never go back.
Theresa:Um, she took the gun, didn't she? Oh, my god, hurley is making a charcuterie board. But wait, why do you need two jars of olives? What a sweet man. My heart can't take it. Ugh, I need a man like Hurley in my life.
Theresa:Wait, why are we lying though Locke, or? Oh man, he's just moaning. Groan, is he okay? Like did he get clocked in the head? Michael got up so fast he found them, the others, tents and dry fish. Okay, sorry, what boat? Oh right, the boat they took Walt on Old and half are women. Okay, women can can kick, or? That's rude. Women can kick your ass, michael, you jackass. What was lock right about nice of jack to finally admit that he's wrong? Okay, so let me get this straight. We have dharma water bottles and then we have dharma nalgene bottles. Why do we need both?
Theresa:This is the cutest scene, poor hurley. It's so hilarious, though, what the fuck is happening right now. Jack, you're such an asshole. Don't burn the last few pages he can. He can never find this book ever again. It's not even a book. How does he just realize that he doesn't have his gun? Uh-oh, lucy is gonna do something bad. This is fucked up. Um, so goodwin was telling people what was going on at camp, okay, but didn't goodwin also attack? So wasn't it self-defense?
Theresa:Fenry is actually terrifying. I think I've said that already. Who's on a lucia calling? Is she wearing the same clothes as in the bar when she met christian? Oh, she called her mom, gotcha. It's sad that she never goes home. It's sad for all of them that they never make it home. Honestly, michael needs to rest. Oh shit, michael didn't know about Fenri. Aw, anna-louise, that's so sad. Um, michael, I don't think you can kill him. Have you ever killed anyone? It's not that easy. Who are you saying sorry to Wait? What the fuck, why did this happen? What the fuck, why did this happen? What the fuck, why did this happen? Why? Why? Oh, my fucking god and the b2, what the fuck just happened? And to think I gave you the benefit of the doubt, michael, you killed two fucking people. Is this even fucking real?
Amanda:the end wow, I have so many things to say. Can I actually look at your screen? Yeah it's so hard to remember all of them like, and I tried writing something down, but it's just like too hard.
Amanda:The first thing, though, is I want to say is I 100 agree about annalusia. I am like so much more scared of fenry knowing he can take annalusia, but he did catch her off guard. That's probably totally the only reason he could, but, like I also was like not I didn't, I thought she would get out of it herself same.
Kip:That's so too I I also didn't necessarily think that she would fall for his little.
Amanda:I'm talking quietly to get you closer yeah, yeah, like she'd be, like she's really slipping yeah, well yeah um, I also thought sawyer would have noticed the gun being gone way before, like like what?
Theresa:yeah, that like he goes to grab it. Oh, what he's like. It's been gone for hours. Exactly who the hunk?
Amanda:yeah, again someone who fell for something a little too. Everyone's falling for things a little too easily. They're all getting a little too comfortable.
Kip:Bernard was right last week.
Amanda:They're all just setting up shop like everything's fine yeah, oh, and I okay, yeah, yeah, um, I don't, yeah, we'll talk. I want to talk for this later, um what's happening? I agree when she swallows that drink yeah, that was like whoa, but then like you're like it's just down the gulf, but then she also has it in her mouth and swallows really aggressively.
Kip:It's really so I'm like not even sure what's going on.
Amanda:That was annoying, though I agree. Um, I don't think liby went to med school because she's a psychologist. I thought she was a psychiatrist. I think she's a psychologist.
Theresa:She's a clinical psychologist.
Amanda:Okay, never mind, but still I'm sure, having someone when does when Locked not put your fingers Up there. What was that?
Kip:When he's Getting in that.
Amanda:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Kip:Last door. That's so funny when you said that I'm like oh yeah, you'd think he would be A bit more careful. Yeah, like.
Amanda:Oh my god.
Kip:I didn't know what you're talking about first either.
Amanda:Like where were his fingers, and I don't know if I would describe it as get your fingers out of there or whatever. Well, that's scary.
Kip:He was fingering. Yeah, okay, well, putting them all up in there.
Theresa:That's funny.
Amanda:Yeah, I guess that's. Uh, that's really. Those were the really big the contraceptive thing. Yeah. I mean they do, they do the really big, the contraceptives thing yeah they, I mean they do, they do have, I'd say the island does. Yeah, oh, boy.
Kip:So I think it's interesting, or what else you got there no, that's okay. The rest that we can just talk about like it's a good reminder of what we need to talk about because, um, I think it's interesting that theresa you have you only seen the show once fully through, like is, and when I think honestly like I'm trying to remember because I know the beginning of the pod we were all like we've seen it a few times.
Theresa:Yeah, I don't think I have I don't think you have either.
Kip:No, because theresa did not remember what happened.
Theresa:This episode, like I knew eventually, like I, I knew eventually that they did die. Yeah, I didn't think it was now and I didn't think it was so close together. For some reason in my mind, these were like separate events yeah, okay, and the.
Amanda:Thing the thing is like, even when I I don't remember some stuff, I have always remembered that scene so vividly, to the point where I remember she was on that little couch thing.
Kip:Yeah, same.
Amanda:And I remember that Libby was holding a blanket.
Kip:Well, I've seen. So when it first aired before the next season would air, I would re-watch the previous season. Oh, okay, so the first two seasons I've seen quite a few times, but then as the seasons progressed, I only just re-watched the sixth season for the first time recently.
Theresa:Yeah, I don't think I've watched it more than once through like in its entirety.
Amanda:I've watched it through twice, yeah, but the second time wasn't complete. We never finished, rory and I rewatched it, but I don't think we finished it.
Theresa:I think the problem is when I say that I've rewatched it. When I think about it, I think I've watched the finale more than once.
Kip:Yeah, that makes sense.
Theresa:And some select episodes We'll sometimes watch certain episodes, but I don't think I've ever seen like the entire series more than once through so then that make.
Kip:Well, it doesn't. It doesn't make sense that you wouldn't remember, because to me again, maybe only because I've seen it at least six times, but like this is so memorable yeah, I would think that I would. To me, this is one of the bigger ones it's like arguably the most shocking, because it's just boom, boom, boom, like anna lucia libby then shoots himself yeah, like holy shit.
Amanda:And because it's michael and because, like, as much as michael has never really been like yeah, I know Trace is feeling pretty fucking vindicated right now as much as Michael has always been annoying, michael has actually always been pretty ineffectual. Yeah Right, like that's kind of his shtick. His shtick is I lost my boy, right, like I can't do anything, but it's like in the span of five seconds he changes the entire script I think that's.
Theresa:Maybe that's why I don't remember is because when I think of michael, I think he's a terrible father and that he's like walt, walt I need to get to my boy. But I don't remember anything else about him that just has taken over yeah, arguably this is also about that, like it's still about how he doesn't do anything other than I don't mean details, but I mean like, yeah, as an old, like when I think michael, it's, where's my boy, walt, walt, he's a terrible dad yeah but that's it.
Theresa:Like there's no like specifics in like what I think michael, is this this specific part?
Amanda:yeah, never registered, like you, just blocked it from your memory, probably because it's traumatizing yeah, I know it's very traumatizing, like it is very like I don't know what we can yeah, okay, let's but it's just insane to me, that's um yeah, let's start with where you started, teresa.
Kip:This is a Anna Lucia episode so it's her, her flashbacks, and I mean over archingly it does. What lost does seems to do is give the people who are about to be killed some emotional resonance and makes you feel for them.
Amanda:Yeah, and that's going to continue yeah.
Kip:But it's definitely a good Anna Lucia episode and it is one of those ones where you do start to think she could have been a good character.
Theresa:Absolutely.
Kip:I think she always was a good character. I'm one of the people who actually really likes anna lucia, but like if she hadn't died and granted, like that was apparently always the plan maybe not in this specific way of her to only be on one season, but if she, you could start to imagine her being in the show multiple seasons after this like because of this episode, I think anyway yeah, I think she did it.
Amanda:I I do feel for her in this episode. I don't like we start kind of with the flashback of like her coming back on shift immediately. It seems like after the uh, you know incident from the past flashback episode of hers, we watched um and we see that her mom is aware that she's the cause of this and I don't know like there's something about how her mom handled that. That kind of like rubbed me the wrong way, like I don't know that that's like an appropriate way, like this isn't just like she screwed up a traffic ticket, like she murdered a suspect.
Kip:Like I think she says assassinated.
Amanda:Executed or executed, yeah, because literally yeah.
Amanda:And she's just like kind of again like it's like and I know we talked about it before how she was like probably the most caring of the parents we had ever seen, and I still think that's probably true. But I just I feel like what, what is the plan here? Like she's like I need to help you. Like was her intention to turn her in? Was her intention to get like?
Amanda:I just I, it was never clear to me what the mom's plan was with all this, because she does just let her quit and like so if she's not going to be a police officer anymore, she's like okay with her, just like walking around having killed somebody, and she said, you know, like the investigations would be dead end.
Amanda:So maybe she just figured like, but it's just the whole thing, and and why this matters so much to me, because it really doesn't in the grand scheme of things probably is just because of the fact that they kind of come together again at the end in this, like phone call, and I just, yeah, I'm just curious as to like what mom's game plan was. And then, if she did go home, like were they just going to have this like warm and fuzzy moment or were they going to actually deal with any of this, because I kind of got the impression at the end of it that annalicia was maybe willing to take responsibility and you do see that kind of mirrored on the island with the fact that she doesn't want to just take another life out of essentially revenge.
Kip:Yeah, I felt similar to that, thinking maybe the mom was thinking this low life is gone. Anna Lucia killed him, yeah, the investigation, the dead end and all that. Maybe she wants to help her in the sense of like clearly Anna Lucia has some major like inner demons and I'm as her mother, I care more about that. So I'm going to help her come to terms with that and maybe move, move on in a more emotionally positive way. I don't know, like maybe I can help her in a sense of like you don't need to be at the police anymore, that's fine, you quit, whatever. But we're still gonna, I'm still wanting to help you so that you can be okay yeah, I agree it's just it's.
Amanda:It was very, as one of the only parents who does seem actively invested in making sure their daughter is okay, it just yeah, it was very it's tough to watch, I that.
Amanda:for me it's the flashbacks that I don't remember often more than anything, or I'll remember kind of more of the high level stuff, but not the like individual scenes of them and that I remember don't. I didn't remember it being so overt that her mom knew what had happened, so I just thought that was a very interesting dynamic that was kind of introduced. And then obviously we see her quit and then go work at the airport.
Kip:Yeah, Wanding, wanding, wanding. How does one get into wanding?
Theresa:Yeah, that was a weird question, but it's funny because we were just talking about how I wanted to work for border services.
Kip:Yeah, so there you go. Second sign Christian is great, though, Like John Terry, I think, is the actor right.
Amanda:Yeah, what else has he been in? I don't know. There's something really infamous that he's in, I think, other than this.
Kip:I have no idea. There's something really infamous that he's in, I think, other than this. I have no idea and I was thinking like he's so good, he's a great actor and I love his voice oh yeah.
Amanda:Yeah, but he is really good and we got some good like it is an Anna Lucia flashback, but we do get some good Christian content and some kind of window into the soul of like how he feels about.
Kip:Yeah, totally.
Theresa:That confession that he has when he's like I can't remember what he says, but my son blah blah blah and I punished him by yeah, that was so sad.
Amanda:And how he can't ever like he can never go back and he can't fix it with Jack, which is super sad to know that, like he would have done that right and and jack already got a little bit of that from sawyer when they had that conversation at the end of season one it's crazy to think that that's where he was going into the bar to meet up with, and he would have met up with sawyer to have that conversation yeah it all comes together like that so, yeah, we see that she's obviously again like I think it sucks because, yes, I start to feel for her in this episode, but I also still feel like she wasn't completely well fleshed out because we only had the two flashbacks and because I do think that maybe they're a little confused as to like where, because I do find, like I, I I don't fully understand her motivations and the fact that like, yes, she clearly acted out of anger and revenge on that guy.
Amanda:Clearly she's still not a good place. She then quits her job because she doesn't want to deal with anything. She's working the airport, clearly drinking too much, decides to go on this weird adventure, bender drinking too much. Decides to go on this weird adventure bender assignment with Christian and then is like this is too much for me, man, and like kind of bails out and then decides to go. So I don't know if it was like quite, if I was quite convinced by that, if it was just Christian speech that kind of reminded her that like it's important to head home and you know.
Kip:I think she was just like God. God, what have I got myself into?
Theresa:like I think she was just like.
Kip:This guy is, like assaulting women in the middle of the night or trying to break into their house, like what the fuck is wrong with him, and I'm sitting here like being his driver slash bodyguard and oh man, I gotta, I gotta make shit right, because I did not think my life would end up like this. I think that's kind of like where her mind was at.
Theresa:Yeah, I think it's a combination of that. And then what Christian says, like, put it together and you're just. I mean I think that would make anyone kind of take a look at their life and just be like what am I doing here?
Kip:Yeah, I do think she was going to go back and like try to make things right with, like you say, take some responsibility and accountability for what she had done and it's so sad thinking I agree with you, amanda in that conversation with her mom on the phone when she's in the airport. Just like both of them are never going to get to that resolution, her mom will always just well, just like everybody who who had someone on that plane, but like she was calling her mom to say I'm coming home and I miss you and I want to make things right and then just to flash forward and essentially into her sitting on that couch and just like being like fuck again, here I am, what am I doing with my life?
Amanda:like I was about to kill someone and yeah and I don't want to be this person and I do love that she made that choice for herself. Because what I think bothers me about annalucy and why, like I can't as much as I do like her better this time than I did the first time and I I never I want to like her more, like I love that she's tough, I love that she's. But I think what bothers me and similarly right, like there's a lot of themes to characters on this show, like similarly to Kate, is this this, these ideas of I made a mistake. Like she says to her mom like I made a mistake. What does she mean about that? Like what mistake does she is she taking responsibility for? Because she hasn't really made, like she's made choices that were bad.
Amanda:I don't know if I'd classify a lot of what she's done as a mistake, because it's very calculated, like and even this that's why I like that she stopped herself with with Fenry, because she spent the episode angry and then she multiple times tried to get the gun from Sawyer and went to a lot of lengths to do so.
Amanda:Like a lot of decision making went into getting the getting the gun right. So it's like at any point in these moments, like there's this time where you could stop and say to yourself I'm not going to do x any further. And she doesn't do that. So that's why I always find it difficult to forgive her and why I find it difficult to forgive Kate a lot of the times. I do think that a lot of Sawyer's mistakes and Jack's mistakes and Locke's mistakes do come out of these like crises points where they're not thinking straight, which doesn't make it OK, by the way. But I find it a little bit more understandable than taking that time to be like I don't have to do this, but I'm almost choosing to, and I feel like she does that a lot.
Kip:But at the end of this one she actually makes the choice not to kill jenry yeah, and I think, all that being said, that is very similar to what goes down with lock towards the end of the season is the choice, like the choices that he's making and you continue to see. So let's switch a little bit to Locke, because his interaction with Henry.
Kip:I can't Like. You know he's saying like, why didn't you hurt me? It's like you dumbass, he thought he was going to be still fooling everybody. Like at that point point he had no reason to hurt you. Yeah, like, how stupid can you be?
Amanda:and then I can't with like the whole. Oh, it's coming for you oh oh, I know and then he's like what me?
Kip:who me like, I'm like how, how many more?
Theresa:times. Are you gonna believe everything this man says? Exactly you know that he is fake. You know that he is fake. You know that he is a liar. Yeah, everything that comes out of his mouth is probably not true. Like, how are you still like getting sucked in by him?
Amanda:Because it's the same reason he keeps going back to Anthony Cooper and the same reason he went right, like the only thing that he really truly wants to believe is that he's special and that all of this shit and by, the only thing that he really truly wants to believe is that he's special and that all of this shit. And, by the way, that's fine, he's been through a lot of shit, but he wants all of that shit he's been through to mean something right and anytime anyone gives him the slightest glimmer of that, he, that's all he latches on to like for dear life.
Kip:Yeah, oh, that was another thing you said. Teresa in your stream was like why are like, why are you calling? Why are you calling so much for Locke? What's he going to do? I was like thinking, yeah, why were they calling for Locke so much?
Theresa:I didn't get that. He'll just hobble over and look at what's happening.
Kip:They didn't know he was talking to Fenway, so it's not like they were saying like get out of there.
Amanda:Yeah, yeah.
Kip:So like, yeah, get out of there. Yeah, yeah, so, but, um, yeah, I know, john lock was, it's just the continue, in my opinion, his like downward spiral into this, like weird sort of moment that will come to a head at the end of the season. But like I, just he, he was just, yeah, falling for it left, right and center, like head over heels falling for Fenry.
Amanda:So and what's like, let's talk about him again too, because it all kind of adds to there. First of all, just while we're talking about the Locke thing, I really like I like that Jack eventually apologizes to him. But why is Jack so hostile towards Locke Like? Even when they're talking like around Michael, like I just I know that there's 10 like and I'm not even doing this so we can like shit on Jack or bring up the Jack Locke dynamic. I'm truly like, did I miss something or am I forgetting something? Like it just seems like a lot of open hostility that doesn't necessarily need to be there. Is Jack just mad at the world right now?
Kip:What do you think, Teresa?
Theresa:I mean he might still be kind of pissy about the whole changing the lock thing when he let Saeed in there and then closed it, and then he was like what's the thing you know? And then again it. And then he was like what's the thing you know? And then again for the guns, yeah, like there's so much like mistrust between them and they just kind of keep like doing things without consulting the other, which is like super weird.
Kip:They just keep doing the same things back and forth to each other, so maybe that I think so and I think too, like, even, even, just it's almost I I think he's like a little unnecessarily hostile. I agree, like it's like a little too much, like just at some point, jack, you're just gonna have to accept, he's there and yeah, he he's never gonna be completely honest with you on everything.
Amanda:So just like clearly you know, take a load off yourself, because all that hostility must be, like exhausting yeah, the people pleaser in me comes out every time I watch him just be nice to him, even if you don't mean it, simmer down for a minute.
Kip:I'm sure you'll find life is a bit easier if you just simmer down but like, but then in this episode too he finds out lock lied to him again about anna lucia I want to talk about that too, and just like so he's almost justified in being like. I don't need to give this guy any like the light of day, because he's just a fucking asshole who just lies to me nonstop.
Theresa:Yeah, and like, what was the point of that lie?
Amanda:I think, yes, that's what I wanted to bring up, because he first says so, like it happens, whatever, and like he hits, he kind of saves him or whatever, or saves her, and then they don't really talk about it him and anna lucia, right no other than a few jokes, and then no one really talks about it.
Amanda:It does seem like, when jack comes in, that anna luía is going to tell him what happened and then law kind of is like oh, I slipped on the, you slipped in the thing. Well, sorry about that. Again like a, why did he lie and why do we think annalucía went along with it?
Theresa:I mean if someone lies for me like I don't know how, like I think I would be too awkward to like go against it.
Kip:You're just like oh yeah.
Theresa:I'd be like, okay, sure, I guess. I guess, like we don't want to tell him that like I was in there, I guess I don't know weird, but I was just feeding him, so like I don't really know what the issue is. Okay, I guess, like that would be me if I was Anna Lucia. I really don't get why Locke lied. I don't know if it's to, I don't know.
Kip:I think he lied because I honestly just think he didn't want a scene Like I, just I don't. I think he saw Jack was sort of like on a one track mind right now with at this point they were Michael. What were they doing, I think?
Amanda:they were about to go get the guns back or something Right, and so I don't think we were quite there yet.
Kip:Maybe we were but either way, I think I think he had already talked to Locke about needing to listen to Michael and go get them, or whatever. I think he didn't want him distracted, because I think he thought if he hears about Fenry trying to kill Anna Lucia, he would have gone on a rampage and Jack would have, because he's so reactive. So I think it was just like we don't need this right now. We don't need Jack being like we have enough yeah exactly that's all I think.
Kip:And but why Anna Lucia went with it, I think was maybe just because not to like again create a big scene, and I think she probably intended to just be like eventually. What the hell was that for?
Amanda:like I can kind of handle this myself like I don't need you to protect me, but then just never had time to do that well, I just wondered if, like, maybe it was just because in their own ways they both intended to deal with it on their own right. So I think lock kind of was like I don't want, like I agree with what you guys are saying, that he didn't want jack to know because Jack would interfere. But I think part of it is that he wanted. I think Locke thinks he still has Fenrir under control.
Kip:Yeah, I think he saw maybe a threat to Fenrir and he didn't want to lose that chance to finish that conversation about why he's special 100%, and that's what it was.
Amanda:And then I think Anna Lucia in a way too. That's why I was curious what you guys thought, because when the way Michelle Rodriguez plays it is she kind of kind of is like kind of like okay, and then I like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what it is, as if she's just kind of going along with him, but I wondered if there was like a piece of her too. That's almost like I don't want jack to know about this because I want to go kill him at one point yeah, probably, yeah, yeah.
Amanda:So I thought that was well played actually on both their parts. Like I thought there's like a subtlety to both terry o'quinn and michelle rodriguez's performances that it's like you don't really, because sometimes it's, it's like almost better not to know exactly what they're thinking.
Kip:Yeah, right.
Amanda:Like I just find the acting on the show so good and so like nuanced and subtle, that like it really is kind of like you're like I don't know what's happening, yeah, and like the best possible way.
Kip:Exactly Okay. What, what next?
Amanda:Well, we could talk about how Anna Lucia does get the gun.
Kip:Yeah, let's talk about muchacha.
Theresa:Thank you, oh, my God.
Amanda:I cannot do that either. Yeah, she has to roll your R's, which I can never do I can roll my R.
Kip:All in the back of the throat, the back of the throat, the back of the throat. No, it's not the tongue.
Theresa:See like that?
Amanda:Why does that sound like a lawnmower is starting?
Theresa:See, that's the tongue again.
Amanda:Yeah, I can't like it's.
Theresa:Yeah, anyway okay uh, so soyer and annalicia do it, they done, did it. They had some jungle sex, you're right it.
Kip:It is kind of shocking it took this long for sex to happen well, shannon and saeed oh right, right they made love, god damn you oh sorry okay they did not do the dirty no, they made love. This is like full-on and also didn't um didn't jinn and sun also do it?
Amanda:yes, they also made love and they made love well, yeah, that's true but yes, this is the first like random hookup, for lack of a better word.
Kip:Yeah, totally random, but she was playing them. So yeah, oh yeah, did you guys know that you?
Amanda:guys know that. Yeah, that was clear to you. Yeah, I thought so it was.
Theresa:I mean, give me the gun. No, let's start making out, let's bone. What else is how, like what else I don't know?
Amanda:they kind of played it at like. You know, she's frustrated, he won't do it, he's mad at her for trying to, and then they wrestle, and then it just happens naturally.
Kip:Well, I mean they glance the camera down right as they're doing it to the gun. It's like, okay, if you didn't suspect, that part was maybe a little bit more hitting the nail on the head a bit.
Amanda:But yeah, no, I mean like I feel literally zero sympathy for Sawyer in that situation Like.
Kip:I'm entirely fine with Sawyer being played like you said at the beginning of the episode, it was a fine Sawyer episode in that he was full on Sawyer, like the charming kind of doofy, but like also trying to be, but like not super grumpy or moody like he was.
Amanda:Good this episode he was he really like? Yeah, like I said, it's fine, because even when um like he's getting those are those mangoes, what were those mangoes? Yeah, so he's getting those mangoes and then like whatever, I think that's fun.
Theresa:I thought they were apples too very shiny, very ripe mangoes yeah, and they're gonna be so bruised from falling, but no, they're falling in the water, I guess. How do you?
Kip:know, I mean we saw it. But how did he know they wouldn't hit the rocks? Because there was a lot of rocks there.
Amanda:But I think he just didn't care, yeah, but even just like him just doing that by himself in the forest and like everything was so spot on, and like that's funny, even like when he realized she took it, he wasn't even that mad, no, and even when jack threw his pages in the fire he was like he really is, like they are kind of like don't get me wrong like he shouldn't, that I'll never forgive the racist things or whatever.
Amanda:But even when he does end up getting so angry that he poses big cons on them, they're really lucky he doesn't get more angry more often like they like through his like. That was mean, that was just mean who are you, michael, throwing?
Kip:yeah, the comic comic yeah, that was so unnecessary.
Amanda:So unnecessary.
Kip:Jack was very angry today, but Sawyer was so cute in that he's like. You know, it's a manuscript actually about the first and only person to find out who done it Like it was really funny, that was funny.
Amanda:He's like I think I have it figured out.
Kip:No, he was very good Go take a walk around the coconut tree and eat about 10 more minutes. He was good at this episode, yeah.
Amanda:And like threatening him with a gun and then it coming out that she has a gun and then locked me. I have to tell you something, yeah.
Kip:Yeah.
Amanda:This is why we shouldn't keep big things secret because, then we don't know. Yeah, right, because now no one has all of the information ever, right, and someone should have at least most of the information, because you're all making decisions around here and it's literally this is what happens, right, yeah?
Kip:Tragedy, tragedy. But I don't want to get there yet, hurley, are we ready to talk about? Hurley, hurley, my heart um, hurley, are we ready to talk about her early? My heart like it was just so cute.
Theresa:He's such a cutie, but why the two jars of olives? Yeah, that made me laugh when you said that, because he doesn't know what he's doing, and that's the cute thing he's just like I need everything and then he has a sleeve of crackers he takes sausage, two jars of olives and one sleeve of crackers he doesn't know.
Kip:He's never done this before. He didn't bring blankets or drinks I just mean.
Theresa:It mean you're gonna drink the olive juice. Clearly that's what the other one's for that'd be good, oh, briny anyway, briny well yeah right like that oh yeah, it'd be very briny yeah, no gross but yeah, no, he and saeed, not saeed oh yeah, he does have an interaction with saeed.
Amanda:There was a lot of character interaction that was a very cute interaction as well, when he's trying to get the radio I know and then saeed's telling him how to like where to go.
Amanda:I thought that was very sweet. I think I like that saeed's kind of come back around to you know, like where to go. I thought that was very sweet. I think I like that Say it's kind of come back around to you know, like this to me, like even like the subtleties to grief on this show I think are so well done, like say it is not obviously back to a hundred percent, he's obviously not going to be like you know, but he's still helpful, he's still sweet. He just maybe keeps to himself a bit more right now and does his own thing and he's not running around playing the hero. But why would he want to be doing that right now while he's grieving? But he's still doing his part and having nice interactions with people and offering help where he can in little ways, and it probably was sweet for him to be able to say oh, this is where I took Shannon, like I just thought that was really cute.
Kip:He wouldn't have been able to do that. No, it would have been too raw.
Theresa:What was he digging?
Kip:though.
Theresa:I'm just wondering the same thing the latrine?
Kip:Right there on the beach In the middle.
Theresa:In the middle Desperate times guys, desperate times.
Amanda:You don't even like to go away from the tent in the middle of the night.
Theresa:Yeah, I have a she-wee.
Amanda:So what do you think about judging Saeed's?
Theresa:beach latrine. A she-wee, yeah, but I don't do it in the middle of the thing, I just like wander off a little bit.
Amanda:I know I'm just kidding. Obviously that's not what it was. But yeah, store for the winter they're having a pantry.
Kip:Oh, they have a pantry. This is the cold room oh man, we're just like, yeah, like the him, him like hurley, talking to him about say anything, and so you'd be like what the hell is that he's like I don't, he's like you don't have that in baghdad, so cute and just really nice.
Amanda:And then they eventually make it to a beach, and that joke was so funny.
Kip:Well, it's funny because, like I thought, hurley, what? Like you kind of go through the motions with, with libby being like we've passed the same tree over and over again, and he's like no, that's a different tree. And you're like, oh, hurley, you are lost. But he's like we're about to come up on a beach, and they do. You're like, oh, he was right. And then she's like, no, this're about to come up on a beach.
Kip:And they do, and you're like, oh, he was right. And then she's like no, this is our beach. There's Jin.
Amanda:And that's why you're on the knees. It's like yeah.
Kip:This is this awkward way.
Amanda:Yeah, he's so cute, like, oh, he was lost, and even that, like then their interaction about how you know little thumbs up cute it's just, it's very sweet, like it's very clear that hurley is out of his element but that he's trying so hard and like what more do you want in life?
Amanda:like that's all you want in life like no one has it all figured out, no one has it all perfect, and she knew that and she's willing to meet him halfway, like oh, it just fucking breaks my heart they would be such a good couple like.
Theresa:They're so cute together. What?
Kip:did you think of the look she gives him when he says maybe if I get drunk enough I'll remember where I know you from? Do you think she was kind of like oh okay, like that's kind of a weird thing to say. Or do you think she was like confused, because it was kind of an odd look? I didn't quite know how to read emotional.
Amanda:It looked even like she looked like she was getting kind of emotional.
Kip:Yeah.
Amanda:Like she doesn't want that, so I just couldn't figure out.
Amanda:If it was because she does remember him, so she knows that like if he remembers where she, he knows her from, he's going to know that it's from that she was also there or if it's just like anytime someone kind of says something like I feel like I know you, she just goes to like a place of like her old life and her old and having been there and all this, like I don't know if it was like on the nose or just cause there was definitely like an emotional nature to it and I don't know.
Amanda:Like it might not even be anything, it might just be the writers, producers, wanting to kind of add a little bit of mystery to like just before she dies, right like I don't know, maybe, or just hurley being awkward like and well, that's really not really understanding how to read, but I do remember thinking like she looks very emotional right now, like she's having an emotional response to this idea and like she, she like paused for like a pretty significant period of time. She's kind of like okay.
Kip:Well, because, like a few minutes ago, hurley said something about when he was in the hospital, from when I broke my hip, so clearly like he's not at the point yet where he's able to tell her. And so maybe. But if she recognizes him, she would know he's lying.
Amanda:You know, not him.
Kip:And so like maybe I was all these sort of things coming together. I mean like well this is all going to maybe come apart, and maybe she just doesn't want it to come apart yet, cause she's just kind of enjoying the fun of it.
Amanda:I think so, maybe a little bit, and just and just the idea of getting more real too. Right, like who knows? But she clearly runs off pretty excited and you know, was I remember I can't remember who I talked to about this, but I remember at one point it was like when I was first watching it, did tyler watch this show? Probably I wonder he was tyler, because he had such a. He still does.
Amanda:Probably he's still with us because I was going to get like really dark, but he's like a great guy who is still with us still probably has the same dry sense of humor, but he always had like a really like dry sense of humor, right, and I know, and like I can never tell if he was kidding or not about stuff, and I think it might, so I think it might have been him if he watches. But he was like someone was giving me a hard time being like so like do you think she was going to stand him up? Like do you think she was going to not come back? Like and she's like so I guess there was this like idea at some point that like into it and like she was trying to get away, but I can't remember if it was just tyler fucking with me, but I don't.
Kip:But either way, what I like about that if anyone had that.
Amanda:I bring this all up to say what I really like is that if, for some reason that ever crossed your mind, she's holding a blanket when she gets shot and I just thought that was like I mean, it's awful, but it was like she was clearly was rushing to get back to him and like, oh, it just adds to me that her holding the blanket just like really adds to that for me.
Kip:Michael, let's back up a bit.
Theresa:Son of a bitch.
Amanda:Can we talk about that for a second, because I'm mad at him.
Kip:What do you mean Like? Well, I mean specifically, specifically. Are you mad at him about?
Theresa:I think we're all mad for the same reason.
Amanda:Same reason, no he said, when they go and find him, and then he's explaining to them. Like I know, we know how this show goes.
Kip:But his description of the others doesn't even make sense for what we know about them so far that's what I was going to bring up how even kate is looking at him like, or giving looks like. What the fuck are you talking?
Amanda:about like really, because she knows the beards are fake yeah, she knows, the costumes are our costumes, and so like she knows that they have a more advanced situation than canvas, tents and tvs and like they know that too.
Kip:Like anna lucia was also there. She knows that people came in like non-ragged clothes in everyday, normal clothes, like they're not well, ethan and goodwin alone exactly, and so like they're not what he's describing. But he, yeah, I was like you're not all falling for this, are you?
Amanda:I was very confused about that because I was like I do remember at one point when they're walking and they're walking barefoot and you see the like little stuffed animal. So I'm like, is there just different sex? Groups yeah so are we supposed to just assume he's like gone on to him? But I just and I know it's always hard to put yourself back in the position of not knowing, but I just, I found his recitation of what he found to be so unbelievably unbelievable yeah, oh, definitely well, and I I thought to lock ike's a little suspicious of him.
Kip:Yeah, even though he Because he kind of questions Jack a little bit about it, but then he comes around, quote-unquote, comes around to agree with Jack I still think he's kind of suspicious of Michael's description, because, as they should be, yeah, it makes no sense.
Amanda:It makes no sense. And then it's, and I think they all are to a degree Like, I think, even Jack, because he's like any sign of the boat, because he's like describe this very primitive thing, and then Jack's reminding him, like, almost like, what about the boat?
Amanda:And like they didn't look like that, like they didn't like everything we've seen of the others and everything, more importantly, the characters living and have seen of the others suggests there is some level of sophistication to their operation well, and all they like kate was with claire claire when she's remembering that they had a full-on medical operation going.
Kip:Yeah, like scrubs and doctors, white coats and like a full-on operation room.
Amanda:Like kate was there when claire remembers this, so she knows that they're more than just yeah, this like raggedy group, primitive, primitive people so I wonder if, like, that's kind of why he brings up this hatch idea, because, yeah, michael also knows that they know it's more sophisticated because he's been in their hatch. Yeah, so I wonder if it was like he's like just trying to convince them that there's a part of it that's not very sophisticated so they can feel confident in going after them and then kind of being like, oh, yeah, yeah, but all that, like there's a hatch, so like that's where the kids must be, and like anything that's not being filled in by my storytelling is probably like also there, like, but it's just, I remember.
Amanda:I remember very distinctly obviously now, but I do remember very distinctly even the first time, kind of being like that's like, that's not what ethan and like goodwin looks like. Yeah, they were like put together exactly they weren't like ragged, like living off dried fish or like however he described it's like. This does not sit right and I I was. Yes, I do feel like they were skeptical. I don't think they were skeptical enough.
Kip:No, I don't think so either. I agree too with you, teresa, when you said, like how he brings up, most of them are women.
Theresa:Like what does that mean?
Kip:Like that was so stupid.
Theresa:It's so rude, yeah, like they could kick his ass. Women can kick his ass any day.
Kip:Yeah.
Amanda:I am convinced that Sun, Kate and Annalusia could run this entire operation without a single man, Absolutely 100%.
Kip:We've seen how. Jack and Locke run things and it is chaotic.
Amanda:Yeah, the only thing they're missing is a doctor, and Sun can do some of it as like an assistant and Libby's got some and Libby's got some, and Libby's got some.
Kip:She can crack those bones back and you know like what the hell, Michael?
Amanda:Most of them are women.
Kip:Yeah.
Amanda:We could take them.
Kip:Like first of all also, by the way, that's kind of gross, so sexist.
Amanda:Like it's sexist, but then also you're like, okay, they're really weak, so let's attack. There's really no way you look at this where Michael comes across even remotely redeemable no and. I'm talking about just that conversation, just that conversation.
Kip:He's a mess. He is a mess, all right, guys, have we? Sufficiently talked around what we need to talk about. We've all not wanted to get where we wanted to go, but I'll start it with this, okay. So Anna Lucia goes in to talk to Fenry. I was so mad at what Fenry says, like Goodwin. When he brings up Goodwin saying he talked about you and thought you could come around and and you know, you killed him, and I'm thinking, yeah, but Goodwin killed that other guy.
Theresa:And how many other people did they kill?
Kip:Like oh, he's just so manipulative and it just like drove me crazy, cause if you start questioning it you're like oh my.
Theresa:God.
Kip:Like yeah, and Lucia like wow. My god like yeah, and lucia like wow, he's kind of right.
Amanda:But you're like no he's not right like and I know we're talking about the end scene now but even cutting back to that scene where he does attack her and he's saying you took these two men like lives that were just leaving you alone, or what the fuck, in what universe? Was anyone leaving the taileys alone?
Theresa:yeah, yeah no, like they were, but same thing in my mind.
Amanda:I was like what was good one doing to her before? Yeah, because he is like at this point, fenry is not only manipulating the characters within the show there, he's manipulating the audience absolutely very convincingly too, yeah and so that was just like I was like, oh, my god, he, my God, he's just, oh, he's just so bad but good, but then so, anyway.
Kip:So she has this moment and doesn't kill him. We find out. I will say that the amount of thuds in the episode you think it's over, and I remember Teresa being like, oh, we're still going, like you're thinking it was over. It felt long and then, uniquely, they didn't actually do it. At the end, it was completely silent when the last word came up.
Amanda:Oh, I didn't even notice Me neither Probably because we had just heard a gunshot. Yeah, yeah.
Kip:Yeah, so okay Well.
Amanda:So anyway, they're having the conversation and she pulls the gun up and then decides I guess we cut the block and we come across a michael and and lucia conversation yeah, and he's all like oh, you have one of those guys.
Kip:Oh crazy, why didn't anybody tell me it's like you clearly? Know what's going on you, son of a bitch you know, and then this whole, they're evil.
Amanda:They took my. Oh, it was so let me do it like like what did you think theres someone who didn't remember what? Because I, like I said I remember she's on that couch and the first time I saw that couch I was like that's the couch Anna Lucia is going to die on.
Kip:Yeah.
Theresa:I'll tell you what I thought.
Amanda:I mean expand on.
Theresa:I thought Michael needs to rest. I thought Michael, I don't think you can kill him. Have you ever killed anyone? It's not that easy?
Theresa:yeah, I remember yeah well, he's proven that wrong that's literally what I was thinking. I was like michael, honestly, you've been through a trauma you were unconscious. You need to sit down, you need to lie down, you need to recover so that you guys can go get your boy so at no point, before he actually pulls the trigger on annalusia, did I think he was gonna? Did you think he was gonna pull the?
Kip:okay, I believe that, because of the reaction that we witnessed, I believe it too, but again it's hard to put yourself back there.
Amanda:Like did you believe michael was going to go and kill fenry?
Theresa:I thought.
Amanda:I thought he was gonna try, yeah, and that he was gonna fail yeah, and that you just thought it was like born of this revenge that he has for walt. Still, yeah, yeah, that's good that, I think.
Theresa:By the way, good job, carlton q, stay millennial off and the writers of the specific episode, because clearly that's what they were hoping and it works it 100, I literally was like he's not gonna kill him, he's gonna try, but he's gonna realize that he's not a killer and that he wouldn't want his boy to see him as the kind of man who kills someone. Oh Jesus, that's what I was thinking, yeah. So when he was like I'm sorry, I'm like well, what's he sorry for? Yeah, and then he shot her and I was like, excuse me.
Kip:Yeah, I liked that build up, like when he said I'm sorry. I was looking at that they actually go to Ana Lucia saying like for what? And I just liked how it wasn't just this like.
Amanda:I'm sorry, boom.
Kip:Yeah, exactly Like it, just amped it up even further.
Amanda:Yeah.
Kip:Drew it out, really yeah.
Amanda:And I did feel like, so I agree, like that I felt that everything you described and I believe that that's what they meant to do and I believe that it was successful and I think I agree that like there was like I know we don't like michael and harold perrineau or whatever you know, I find him to be a fine actor, great, good actor, um, but I do find in scenes like that he's very good. Like I did feel his panic and I did feel his anguish when he's like kind of looking at the gun and then it's like I'm sorry, and then there is that beat long enough for her to be able to ask for what. I think it's because, again, he's still hesitating, right, like he is struggling. It doesn't make it forgivable in any way, but at least we know I don't know there's that anguish there.
Kip:I guess like there's a part of me that thought it would be easier for michael to pull that stuff off and it clearly isn't easy for him yeah, I think you, you feel the panic for sure yeah um, especially when libby walks in and she says michael, and it's almost like, well, clearly it wasn't planned, but like just this, like panic shot, like he didn't even really know he was doing it no, and it's just like fuck yeah, because he shot her twice right no, he shot, I think, just once and lucia twice.
Kip:No, he shot on lucy once I thought he shot them both only once, but I could be I think he shot her twice.
Theresa:I saw two holes oh, it could be and I remember thinking probably just like panic trigger finger. You're just like kab, kabang, kabang. Yeah.
Kip:Yeah, yeah. And then opens up the vault to find Fenry.
Amanda:And then shoots himself.
Kip:Yeah. Well, he's got to make it convincing. So what do you think? He's fucked up. What do you think happens next? Teresa?
Theresa:think happens next? Teresa, I'm gonna assume that what happens next is that, yeah, they're all gonna come back and they'd be like what happened? And he's gonna be like oh, fenry got, got out and took the gun from blah, blah, blah and shot us all. And then they're gonna be like we, we gotta get a revenge. Like let's go, let's get the guns, let's go to the. Like we got to get our revenge. Like let's go, let's get the guns, let's go to the border, let's go to wherever these tents are that you're talking about, and like let's get our revenge, let's get your boy back, let's be done with this other's bullshit.
Kip:Yeah, I mean, that's basically what happens, is it?
Amanda:Like for yeah.
Kip:The gist of it for the next, like couple episodes. Okay, it doesn't necessarily obviously more things happen. But like, okay, yeah, you're, you're right in that in terms of like what michael's kind of plan was there to make it look like fenry got them?
Theresa:so they let fenry go, or like he lets fenry go then yeah that's fucking dumb. That's just like just the most half-baked idea.
Amanda:Like I just cannot with michael well, and it's funny too, because you kind of get a little bit of a foreshadowing, jokey kind of moment where, um, jack and lock are talking about the whole, you know, letting michael go maybe they're supposed to let fennery go and jack's like what are they? Are the others operating on the honor system now? And it's like kind of like what's the long-term plan here for michael? Like how is he going to pardon me, ensure that he actually gets w Walt back if he's just going around doing all this stuff? Right, but like he's just so desperate at this point, yeah, that he'll do anything well, like I'm wondering what happened, like how long has Michael been gone?
Kip:well, he was out of it for eight episodes how many days, figured it?
Amanda:oh no, we did that for Claire it was maybe like 10 days 10 or 11 days, like what happened in that.
Theresa:10 or 11 days Like nothing. Well, you'll find out, you'll find out.
Kip:You'll find out.
Amanda:Yeah, you'll get one more, at least one more, michael moment.
Kip:Well, there's.
Amanda:You get another flashback with him, though, don't you One?
Theresa:more Michael moment. What does that mean?
Amanda:He has time to redeem himself from what I only can assume is the biggest hole of negative points that in the history of let's get lost. But he's in more episodes like he's not done. No, yeah, no, I know he's not done, but likecoat that one, well, I mean it depends like more bad. It depends on you like. Is there anything worse than killing two innocent people? I don't know. Is he responsible for more mayhem to our beloved castaways?
Kip:absolutely okay, so like for real, it's over like I know the episode's end. It's like shocking. It's like so shocking it's so shocking.
Amanda:I was telling this to a friend of mine who only knows what happens on this show because of our podcast, and I said I'm like I can't even like tell you it, like it just doesn doesn't it? It's just, it was very different. It literally did flip the script, cause you're just like at this point, like we had lost Boone, we had lost Shannon. It's not like we're not we're not immune to loss on this show, but nothing has been so fucking chaotic and so like senseless for a lack of.
Kip:Well, can we talk about that for a second? Like, because I find it really like going into the research for this episode and and throughout this us doing this podcast, like learning things and learning that why libby was killed was a dramatic choice because they didn't think Anna Lucia's death would be very impactful. I just I find that actually like really. I mean, I get it the creators of the show. They're free to do what they will in terms of creative decisions and everything.
Kip:But I just, oh, I don't know that doesn't really sit that well with me because, like, they even go on to say they had a broader plan for libby and that just gets tossed out the window and it's like you know what?
Amanda:we don't sorry, we need, we need people to be more shocked, so your character is going to be dead well, and I'm sorry, but that is why I have a hard time believing that the other reasons didn't like play somewhat of a role and I know they say they don't, but like you're telling me, like, because there's also other people they could have done that with. But I understand also they probably didn't want to lose a major character. So, yeah, I think it was a like, a bit of a catch-22, in the sense they're like they had more plans for her but also they hadn't really done much with her. So it's not like they were going to lose a central character plot point, but she did draw on people's emotions because their relationship with Hurley Because they, they, they go on to say things like they felt really bad.
Kip:So they helped her get on like this pilot for a new show as an actress, cause they felt bad, that they were basically like she was going to not have a job anymore. Yeah.
Theresa:So it's like a sacrifice at that point.
Kip:Yeah, so they helped her get on the show, but the show didn't get picked up and then, like she didn't come back for they wanted her to come back for a few different flashback episodes, but she didn't want to Cause she and like understandably so. And they're like, yeah, we get it, that's fine. She did come back a few times but like it's just like oh, I don't know, I get it.
Kip:You got to make hard choices when you're making a show like this, but it's just like yeah, that just doesn't really I don't like no, no.
Amanda:And and. But I do think it was, even if, like, this isn't a show, it's not formulaic. We're not going to kill off a main character every season finale. We're going to kill characters off halfway through season one and a couple episodes into season two and oh, by the way, we're going to kill them within. You think it's crazy that you got DUIs within 15 minutes of each other. You're about to die within 30 seconds of each other, unrelated, obviously, but the the idea being like oh, we just killed one, we'll kill another one, right?
Kip:and it's not even the season finale. No, there's still four episodes left.
Amanda:What that's insane yeah, I mean the finale, two-part finale, but like geez, like.
Amanda:We're not even like the penultimate episode of the season like it's wild it really meant, like it really, and that's another reason why the show is so fricking good, because it's like another, that's what happens right. It's like it's not just at the time on TV, it was very not like everything happened like this, but there was a lot of like big major plot, character development, cliffhanger issues happened at the mid-season finale, happened at the season finale, happened in the season premier is like. This show was like no, we'll do what we want when we want.
Amanda:Yeah, and there no one can tell us otherwise yeah right and it was like pretty compelling because you literally didn't know it worked what you were going to get, and that is why it became such a water cooler show, right Cause it's like totally you did not want to miss an episode.
Kip:I mean, to me this is like akin to the red wedding from game of thrones, like it was just so shocking, yeah, and like so to me one of the, if not the most shocking moments of the show like there. There are more shocking moments of the show like there. There are more shocking moments that are like holy shit, but this was just like you got three in a row, so freaking fast.
Amanda:And yeah, that idea that like, okay, annalicia died.
Amanda:And it's like oh fuck yeah and then you're not even recovered and then libby dies and then you're like trying to be like what the hell did he do and what's his plan? And and what I think freaks me out so much about that is like we the analyst, the thing was clearly calculated, the Libby thing was clearly a huge mistake, and then you see the panic, but he's able to spite that panic, to bring himself back to the plan and shoot himself in the shoulder, like he is, like there is no stopping this man at this point, exactly Like if that didn't, yeah, he's completely lost break him out of it for enough to at least fuck up after and like not be able to follow through with the rest of it.
Amanda:He's still able to like calculated moves like he's responsible for it's.
Theresa:It's fucked like michael is like a villain at this point, like he has turned into a villain at this point, like he has turned into a villain what I've been saying all along.
Amanda:Like he is. He is the bad guy.
Theresa:Yes, Exactly, fenry. Fenry is also a bad guy.
Kip:Yeah, he's also a bad guy, but Michael has taken a spot for sure.
Amanda:Fenry's at least. Okay, fucking entertaining, yes.
Kip:Are we ready? Speaking of spots, should we get into the rankings? Yes let's see, I assume.
Amanda:Michael's a top.
Theresa:I think for this one, just for fun, we're gonna go first to last, because the rankings have not changed really. Hurley is still in number one with 1830. Sun at number two 1630. Saeed 1555. Locke 1545. Echo 1295. Jin 1250. Claire 780. Sawyer 775. Jack 600. Libby jack 600. Libby ends with 455. Walt 240, dez 60. Kate 25. Anna lucia breaks into the positives with 70 and her last time on this ranking, charlie negative 666, oh my god, negative 660. And Michael rounds out the top the 16 at negative 3,865.
Amanda:I'm sorry, can we just get that one more time?
Theresa:Michael is at number 16 with negative 3,865.
Amanda:Can we Kate? So spoiler alert, but not really. It's been a 20 years michael's not lasting to the end of this series. I think we all know that we won't say how he leaves, but I don't think anyone's like, oh, this character is gonna be warm and fuzzy till season six, when michael is no longer a character. Can you just always include him so that I can see how far like long it takes someone to even remotely get close to like?
Kip:I want him to be like our guide post what I'm concerned about is when I try to visualize these rankings yeah, that might be so far down. We're gonna need like an eight and a half by 17 sheet michael is no longer trackable on the weekly rankings I do have a question yes I, so we watched this together. And when, when jack tosses that manuscript in the fire, I saw theresa whip out that pen and change her rankings. I want to know how many points jack lost for that.
Theresa:I think 50, okay, yeah nothing.
Amanda:I think it should have been more than that. Nothing too crazy. I know they're not up for debate, but I'm just saying that was rude, it was rude, it was rude. And again, what is with these men? There's so little reading materials available.
Theresa:Don't throw out the ones you have.
Amanda:Well, exactly that could be an Academy Award winning movie one day. What's it called? Like Bad Bunny or something?
Theresa:Bad Twin.
Amanda:Oh right, Bad Bunny.
Theresa:You're thinking of the rapper, or whatever.
Kip:Yeah, I think so, oh man.
Theresa:Well, good.
Kip:I was not sure what to expect with Michael but, you did not disappoint me.
Amanda:Oh, thank you, that was very well worth it All right, well, on that. So what? What did you find? I mean, I'm sure this isn't hard to imagine, but what is your best and worst character from?
Kip:Oh, you know what I didn't do my rankings because we were watching it live and I didn't prepare for that. Um, but I can wing it. Least valuable player, Michael, most valuable player, I'm going to say. I'm going to say Anna Lucia. I think it was a good episode for Anna Lucia and I like that she ended in the positives for you, Teresa. I think that's a good send-off.
Amanda:Yeah, that was moving my mind too as well. All right, but what did we think of the episode overall?
Theresa:Teresa 9.1. Wow, nice, that was terrifying. I got all the cute moments and, honestly, did not expect that ending, despite having seen the show once before through. I think that they did a really good job of kind of keeping that not even in your like mind. Um, so much so that even before it happened, I didn't believe that he would even kill anybody, let alone people he, you know, traveled with. Um. I think it's a great episode. Start to finish, um, yeah, just 9.1.
Kip:Loved it you want me to go?
Kip:yeah, okay, I'm giving it a 9.8, oh I think it is so good and like I've seen it at least half a dozen times, probably more, because it's second season and that those three shots at the end still get me each time and it's just so, just so well built up. I I know it's coming, but it just still just gets me and everything, everything, like we had almost all the characters in this episode. Not I know we missed a few, but we had almost all of them and they were all in like, really good form for their characters. So I think it was a really good, really good episode, one of my favorites, for sure hustle guys.
Amanda:I think I have to give it a 10. Wow, nice. Because when I think of lost, inevitably I think of this episode, like truly like. I think about how I remember so vividly. Like I said, there is something about that couch that she's on. I always remember that scene and being like what is happening, like it to me it is like quiz essential lost.
Amanda:Like you, you don't know what's going on.
Amanda:It's it's it's subversive, it's it's it's it's subversive, it's it's confusing, it's confounding, it's emotional, it's leaves you like just wondering what the heck's gonna happen next, like it's all the things you want about it.
Amanda:And like kip was saying, it's every character that we do see we're missing son charlie claire, but like that's fine.
Amanda:Um, every character you see is in like their peak place, like and and at the top of like what we think of when we think of them, even when it's a negative, like Locke is still like being manipulated into thinking he's special, right, like it's just it's everything we've come to love about, and then it's just so emotional and sad. So I really do think it's one of the most perfect episodes of the show, and that goes to show you too, it doesn't have to be like Anna Lucie is not my favorite character like this show can wreck you emotionally, no matter what kind of is going on, because of the storytelling and the acting. So it's not, you know, necessarily going to be what people talk about the most, but that scene in particular is very iconic and it just shows you that, like, at any point, don't count anyone out, don't count anyone in. Like just take these people for what they are, as you're experiencing this with them, and like it's going to move.
Kip:you Couldn't have said it better. Well, that's it for another episode of let's Get Lost. Thanks everybody for tuning in once again and enjoying this ride with us. We hope you enjoyed the episode of Lost and we hope you enjoyed the episode of let's Get Lost. Please like and subscribe us wherever you get your podcasts, and don't be afraid to check out our Patreon for all kinds of fun behind the scenes things, spoiler talks and other tidbits that we share. Thanks for joining. We'll see y'all next week. Bye.