Amanda: 0:28

Well, hello, hello everybody. Welcome to this week's episode of let's Get Lost. I'm Kip and I'm joined by my co-hosts and best friends Amanda, hello, and Teresa, hi. We're sitting here in our studio ready to talk to you today about Amanda. Why don't you let us know?

Kip: 0:50

Well, we are on episode two of season three, the Glass Ballerina. It is written by Jeff Pinkner and Drew Goddard, directed by Paul Edwards. Saeed searches for a location for another signal fire, but his plan could have fatal consequences for Jin and Sun. Reunited in captivity, kate and Sora begin hatching a plot to escape from the others. Reunited in captivity, kate and Sawyer begin hatching a plot to escape from the others. Ben makes a skeptical Jack an intriguing offer, and he has an interesting presentation to back it up In a flashback.

Amanda: 1:23

Jin is forced to confront Sun's lover, oh.

Theresa: 1:25

We don't need to talk about it.

Amanda: 1:27

One of my questions on the board today is Teresa, are you okay?

Kip: 1:29

She was not Spoiler alert.

Amanda: 1:35

I watched it with her and she was, you know, we man and I knew this day would come, so I'm glad we got to finally talk about it today. So here's some stats about the glass ballerina. Imdb has it at a 7.9 out of 10, 16.89 million viewers when it aired, and two names that I counted.

Theresa: 1:55

Shortcake, yeah Frackles.

Amanda: 1:57

Yeah, all for Kate.

Kip: 1:59

We didn't really talk to anyone else, no.

Amanda: 2:01

And day 69 on the island.

Kip: 2:04

Which we actually hear in the episode.

Amanda: 2:06

Yeah, so it was good that you know the data backs it up. I didn't have any trivia. I couldn't really find much for interesting trivia, but I do have one interesting trivia factoid. Okay, so drew goddard, who amanda mentioned, was also a writer on the show the buffy the vampire slayer. And there was another person, one of the producers, was also a producer. There was like a mini buffy reunion on lost for some producers.

Theresa: 2:32

That's fun yeah.

Kip: 2:34

That's cool.

Amanda: 2:35

One of Amanda's other favorite TV shows.

Kip: 2:36

I love Buffy.

Theresa: 2:38

I love all teen dramas from the late nineties to now, today I was going to say like, let's not pretend you don't still love teen dramas.

Amanda: 2:47

What were some other good teen dramas from the late nineties?

Kip: 2:49

Dawson's Creek.

Amanda: 2:50

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kip: 2:51

Felicity.

Amanda: 2:52

Never saw that one Was that a teen drama.

Kip: 2:54

Didn't she go to university? She was in university.

Amanda: 2:56

Yeah, I guess kind of the same thing.

Kip: 3:00

Yeah, that was kind of like the transition from like Beverly Hills 90210, melrose Place Party of Five into like the Buffy Dawson's Creek.

Theresa: 3:14

Then we're going to get the OC Wintry Hill pretty little liars.

Kip: 3:15

We all know that I'm an oc outer banks.

Theresa: 3:16

Now if you really want to go outer banks. What's that exactly?

Amanda: 3:18

have you seen it? No, I haven't. I'm part of it. I didn't know. It was a teen drama, though I didn't think it is I just assumed it was like some kind of sci-fi I think they're like is it?

Theresa: 3:25

I think they're on a. No, I don't think so aren't they? I think you're thinking of um. I think you're thinking of Outer Limits, no that was a good show, though I never watched it, oh.

Amanda: 3:35

I liked Outer Limits. Wait, no, I think I'm thinking of Unsolved Mysteries.

Kip: 3:41

A teenager enlists his three best friends to hunt for a legendary treasure linked to his father's disappearance. There you go. Very popular.

Amanda: 3:51

Okay, wait, I'm just. I think I did Outer Limits, the 90s version, though.

Kip: 3:58

There was also a 60s version.

Amanda: 4:00

Yeah, the Outer Limits it was like they would do supernatural, science fiction things, but like it was like reenactments or stories, like individual episodes, episodic. It wasn't like, didn't fall, it wasn't serialized, I don't think are you thinking of sci-factor?

Kip: 4:17

maybe I'm thinking of what is so good, dan akroyd would always do like a little intro for it, so it made it seem like it was like legit based on a true story, but then it was like acted out and like they weren't true stories.

Amanda: 4:33

Obviously, maybe some of them were like, based on it never watched it. Have you ever seen the memes I know that's so unsolved mysteries. You know how the, the guy from star trek, hosted unsolved mysteries. Ever seen the meme where they slow his voice down to like a quarter or three quarters or whatever and it's like, basically he sounds like any drunk guy at the bar. He's like. I wanted to tell you today about a story oh, I love that.

Kip: 4:59

No, I've never seen that. Yeah, I think outer limits was kind of like the one between like x files and psi factor in terms of like quality like sci-fi, is canadian yeah, might be too actually.

Amanda: 5:12

I don't think so. I think.

Kip: 5:16

Outer Limits was also a 60s show.

Amanda: 5:17

No, they didn't have TV in Canada in the 60s. Oh, I know.

Kip: 5:21

I know that we were slow. There was for sure at least one.

Amanda: 5:27

We had CBC yeah.

Kip: 5:30

Anywho. Yeah, okay, amanda, let's hear your high level takeaway for the glass ballerina um well, I, I don't know like I, I didn't really have one for today. This was a weird episode for me. I don't really like there's I mean, the only high level takeaway I have from it.

Kip: 5:50

I can't really say because it would be a spoiler, but it does have have to do with Juliet and just how she is and just how freaking good she is from the beginning in terms of laying the foundation for what we're going to see with her later on. She's a phenomenal actress and she was so sweet in the documentary, but I don't really have a high-level takeaway today.

Kip: 6:12

This isn't really like a. This is I don't know we're gonna get to it, but it kind of felt like a bit of a filler episode, um. So it's really hot hard to have like a high level takeaway, connecting it to the rest of the show, when, like, it's very obviously to me that they were trying to spread this out and I just saw like a screen grab for like episode four, like the little like thumbnail for disney plus, whatever, and it's still kate this is not a spoiler. If you're watching on disney plus you can see this. There's it's still kate behind bars and I'm like, oh my god, is she still in this cage in episode four?

Kip: 6:49

yeah so I don't know, their takeaways might have to take a little bit of a sidestep, because I don't know that we're going to get a lot of like overarching story in the next.

Theresa: 6:58

So do you mean episode three is it episode three? Well, why would you see a screen grab from episode four?

Kip: 7:05

like in the list of episodes.

Amanda: 7:06

Oh, in the list gotcha well and that's the thing like before we get to your stream of conscious, teresa. Like it's sort of known, the first bit of season three is kind of like a slog, because it's like they're in this cages like forever. And so it just feels like almost like, um, they were just dragging it out. So it's funny that you mentioned that when that's sort of like, that's how it feels for a lot of people.

Kip: 7:31

Well, and like now, I just feel like we're kind of getting into all of it. But I kind of thought that sun was going like and I, I know I knew that this wasn't, but I kind of, in re-watching it, thought that sun was going to admit to jinn at the end of this episode that she had had an affair, because then I just kind of felt like all of that was like for not like I really don't know, and we're gonna get it.

Kip: 7:49

Just that all adds to like that whole overarching feeling of like I don't think there was anything like high level to this episode, because it didn't really give us anything. If anything, I think Said acted out of character, I think she acted out of character, whatever.

Amanda: 8:02

Yeah, all right. Well we'll get into that later, so let's hear Teresa's stream of consciousness.

Theresa: 8:09

Also, the glass ballerina. Oh, ok, that's very on the nose. It's a glass ballerina. Oh, whoopsie, it's broken. This man is so terrifying. Oh, son, don't lie, sweetie, I get it, but I get it. I mean, he's terrifying. Son, are you okay? Where are they again? Oh, on the boat. Right, right, I forgot what the plan is. Wow, son, good for you, you're such a badass.

Theresa: 8:37

Juliet can get so far into Jack's room. Now who's opening and closing the door for you, juliet? Yes, sir, ben is so creepy. Is this girl jealous of Juliet? Uh-oh, they're going to take their boat. Man, the others are terrifying. Watch out, my friends. It's fish biscuit time. I like that.

Theresa: 9:00

Sawyer and Kate look greasy because they should. Why is Colleen jealous when she's clearly got herself a fella? I see Jen is still a little controlling. Oh my God, it's here the thing they talked about, the cheating, fucking ew. This makes me so angry. Oh my god, her dad knows. Oh my god, he's terrifying.

Theresa: 9:20

Um, what is happening in this place? Are they building something? Or what's with the rocks? You're gonna chop rocks? Ew, this guy's so gross. He's such an asshole, kate, be careful. He's gonna shock you or, no wait, he's gonna shock sawyer instead. Wow, what an asshole, um. Is her dad gonna make jinn hurt this man and this man? Oh my god. Oh, wow, jinn, good for you. You stand up to him. Sunset is legit terrifying.

Theresa: 9:48

And such a manipulator. Um, where did they get this fish that he's chopping? Saeed, you can't be so sure of these things. Someone remind me of their plan again. And such a manipulator, um, where did they get this fish that he's chopping? Saeed, you can't be so sure of these things. Someone remind me of their plan again. Um, why are you so sure it's safe, saeed? Come on, sawyer, naughty, naughty. Oh hi, juliet. Oh man, where did Carl go? Why are they building such a big fire? And how did they build it so fast? Oh, I knew Saeed was lying. Saeed has a lot of faith in his skills. Also, did Saeed see the tracks from the boat? Like, how is he so sure of everything? How dare you, son, how dare you? Their relationship is so stunted and Jin looks so sad. This conversation is sad. Jin doesn't seem that sure of Saeed. It's very interesting, um, jin, why do you need the gun? Oh, because he was not, because he knows. It's sad that they tried to work around him instead of just telling him what was up.

Theresa: 10:45

Honestly, okay, this whole sequence with Kate Joy, kate Sawyer and Juliet is just intense. I can't even type, I can't even react properly because I'm just so involved and captivated. Apparently, um, who's on the boat with son? I'm scared, jin, don't do it. Don't, don't hurt him. Is this some kind of hotel? Wouldn't people hear what's going on and call? I don't know security? Oh my God, jin, I'm so proud of you for not doing doing it. That's not something you can just come back from.

Theresa: 11:13

Oh my god, this is terrifying. Hey, sayid, how long do you wait until they come, until you give up? What's a pala fairy? Oh my god, son, watch out, it's colleen. Oh damn good job, colleen. You're so creepy.

Theresa: 11:30

Oh my god, she shot her. Oh my god, jinn, be careful, son. Did you get shot? Wait, you're both in the water. It's okay, she's there somewhere. Just go find her. Oh my god, thank god, damn, he's a good swimmer man. He's very good at treading water.

Theresa: 11:43

If he's holding her up somehow, son's sad son's dad is literally terrifying, as I've said many times already. I've said it like a ton of times what he truly is. Um, son, are you gonna tell him now or not, okay, jinn loves her so much, so here's a toughie with such a soft spot. She's so proud of him. The freaking cuties okay, syringe gator's so cute. Oh shit, they're listening. Oh, that's so creepy. Ben's so hey. Jack, long time no see. And Juliet, oh nope, it's Ben. What the fuck is that? Oh, it's a chair. Whoops. All right, ben, you're funny. I suppose I mean Ben, you lied about a lot of things. Jack, don't shake his hand. He's creepy, is Jack? Okay, what's wrong with him? Um, bring what in. I love that. This red socks thing is a thing. Wait, how did ben know the conroe was going to?

Kip: 12:37

go this way, creepy and I mean yes yeah, all of the above also I just want to say, having watched the episode with theresa, I don't think her stream of consciousness fully captures the reaction she had when you, when the son was in bed with that guy and his head just pops up behind her.

Amanda: 12:54

She literally screamed I can, I can imagine she was so upset I was not happy.

Kip: 12:59

I will say, like that I remember the first time, like that was a mind fuck. Because, like you think, like exactly like you thought last episode right, you're like, oh, they're having an affair. And they're like, oh, no, don't worry, they're just. Yeah, I believed her, they're just learning.

Theresa: 13:10

Oh no, don't worry, they're just. Yeah, I believed her.

Amanda: 13:12

They're just learning English. Yeah, I know, and it's funny because in the like the promo stuff before season three, the creators would say things like and even the actress Is it Yunjin Kim plays Sun would say things like do we really know everything we want to know about Sun? Maybe she's not as good as you all think.

Amanda: 13:34

They were like teasing it like that there was going to be something like an affair awful um, I laughed during her stream of consciousness because when you said look how far juliet can get into his cage now, like he's some feral animal that they're taming it was like every day is a bit of progress she got very close.

Theresa: 13:55

She was in there. He didn't eat his soup.

Amanda: 13:58

And she made it.

Kip: 14:00

And Ben was jealous. Yeah, that was. It's an episode. It's so weird, I don't know. I don't know Sun's dad is scary. That's the first note on Kim's board and I will say yeah, that first scene with him.

Amanda: 14:17

he was scary and it's like also scary that even though he clearly knew son broke it, he still fired the maid. Oh, I know. And he's just like I'm going to teach her a lesson.

Theresa: 14:27

It like, made it so much worse much worse.

Kip: 14:35

Yeah, but I think that's kind of a similar. It's a similar reason that um, that got danny shocked, sawyer and kate right yeah there's sometimes that, like you can take on heat yourself, you're willing to take abuse, you're willing to take a consequence, but we don't. It's more effective if it's happening to someone else. Yeah, so your choices and decisions are impacting others yeah, and it's like really fucked up when people do that yeah, and don't change, and don't tell the truth yeah, it's crazy.

Kip: 15:03

I mean, the reality is that, yeah, sun is. I don't even know. I found this episode kind of confusing in a lot of ways too. Like I don't really understand, I think saeed's plan was exceptionally naive. Like I know, we know a lot more about the others than saeed does, but like I don't know, I just thought that was like really arrogant of him.

Theresa: 15:33

I agree.

Kip: 15:34

I don't know if we want to start with that, but let's do it.

Theresa: 15:36

Yeah, I agree. That's why I kind of said in the stream, like he's very confident in his skills, because like he's so sure that this is going to work. He's like, well, we're just going to do this, we're going to do this, and then I'm going to capture two.

Kip: 15:48

This the end, like it's not even like a discussion no, and like he thought he could keep jinn out of the plan when, like how, like you could have used jinn's skills, like I don't know it, just the whole thing. It seemed like I I understand that he wants to help and I I was glad to hear that like he was more aware of what was going on. That was like pretty in line with what I would expect from saeed.

Amanda: 16:16

But I thought the plan was exceptionally arrogant and exactly what happened was going to happen based on like this plan of I'm going to capture two and make them kill and I'll kill everyone else and then make them cooperate and it's like say how, like you don't know anything about these people yeah, and even just like that, he's like well, we have to go make another fire now because Jack's not coming, instead of saying, well, let's go back to the beach regroup because maybe something happened to Jack and them. That's the reason they're not coming, not because they're just sitting on the other side of the mountain and can't see the smoke, so weird.

Amanda: 16:50

It was very weird that he had. Yeah.

Theresa: 16:52

Sayid just felt weird the whole episode honestly, like it just didn't seem like I know he's very capable and like we've said that a lot in the past, but this just seemed like a little too far for him.

Kip: 17:05

Well, quite honestly, he didn't do anything beneficial. This episode really, In the long run, Sun did more.

Amanda: 17:13

Yeah, she shot one.

Kip: 17:14

And in the end, like she escaped when they took the boat and then Jin went after her Like Said, didn't really do much.

Amanda: 17:24

No, and that's sort of like you can say that about feelings of the whole episode. It was weird for the second episode of the season to feel like it's a filler episode already and I get it. We kind of need to wrap up Cause basically it's the wrap up of son Jen and Said story from the finale, because we don't really get something. We got to show what they do next kind of thing, but it just there was. No, there was nothing that we gained from it, from their story.

Kip: 17:56

You said, even just them, being like okay, something's gone wrong, let's go back and tell everyone, would have made more sense then, and then to like I don't know, like I don't.

Kip: 18:05

We've always talked about, like, how the flashbacks kind of are supposed to like serve a purpose, like kind of drive the like character development on the beach or like on the island forward in some way, or like it usually means something. I also don't. I almost would have rather this been like a jinn or saeed or sawyer or kate flashback, then like I don't know what we learned about sun other than she's a cheater.

Amanda: 18:33

Well, that's just it. Like we learned, she cheats, but there's no resolution for it.

Kip: 18:37

And that's why I thought at the end that she when they were on the beach I was like she's going to be like okay, I betrayed him before and it it was bad. I betrayed him now and it was bad. I have to stop the cycle and just be like honest with him yeah, it's, and then that did not happen.

Theresa: 18:56

Yeah, I thought she was going to tell him because, like that, it kind of felt like that's what it was leading up to totally and then you just kind of felt like she doesn't tell him until the next season.

Amanda: 19:04

Yeah, like it's a long time. Yeah, spoiler sorry no, that's fine.

Kip: 19:11

Like we.

Amanda: 19:11

I think we all know it's gonna have to come out yeah, it does come out, but it's just like, why put this storyline here? Exactly for it to sit for over a season with no resolution to it.

Kip: 19:23

It's very strange, like we learned essentially from son backstory backstory that her dad is terrifying, that she should have known from day one that he would control and manipulate and hold other people accountable for her bad actions. Yeah, she continues not to note that and someone pays the price for it, right?

Amanda: 19:49

yeah, j I guess, like I would say Jin, maybe, if we're looking for something. It showed Jin's really struggling in the flashback and on the island, like he's struggling with his marriage to Sun, he's struggling with his work situation with her dad and he even tries to quit. You know, he's just like I don't want to do this anymore. And then he's sort of like totally can't, basically, and I mean, but we, we also kind of knew that, so it's just like maybe just further and in information about anything.

Kip: 20:25

I was kind of disappointed because I thought that jinn had come farther than like his controlling nature and like the whole. I mean it's like a catch-22 in my mind. I'm like I'm glad he hasn't done like just a complete 180, because that like isn't very realistic, that's what I just change overnight. But I did find like, like, when they have the conversation, and she's like I shouldn't have disobeyed you in front of saeed and he's like you shouldn't have disobeyed me at all, and it's like what?

Kip: 20:53

yeah, I thought we were past this, jinn, I thought we were like letting her have some autonomy in a voice and things like that. Like I thought her saying like I probably shouldn't have done it in front of someone else, like that might have been embarrassing, or like disrespectful, fine, and then, from to be like you shouldn't disagree with me at all, it's like jinn, no, we're, we're, we're better than this now, jen, I thought we were too.

Amanda: 21:13

Yeah, I kind of like I remembered this episode with him being like that more from the lens of because I don't want anything to happen to you now that you're pregnant. So I'm sort of like I you shouldn't have disobeyed me, because we shouldn't be in this position in the first place, because you have to look, but I didn't get that sort of in my mind.

Amanda: 21:38

That was like Jin made that clear. But then when I re-watched it yesterday I'm like, oh, he doesn't really say that. So am I just like making that up to make him seem more like not an asshole?

Kip: 21:48

I think we all have really gaslit ourselves over the years about Jin, like cause he does, he is a good guy in the end and like we see that he couldn't go through with killing that guy and he couldn't do a lot of like he doesn't want to be doing these things, like there's obviously some goodness to him deep down and like obviously he's trying to come back around to that and I think it's no spoiler to say that that journey continues throughout the show. So I think in the end we just kind of like look back on it with rose colored glasses of you know, trying to make Jin's like, trying to almost defend Jin's actions when some of it really isn't that defendable yeah.

Amanda: 22:27

And neither is.

Kip: 22:28

Saeed's a lot of the time. In my mind Saeed was really cool and nice and like Badass, yeah, and never bad, until later on and I'm like, wait a sec. He did kind of just say that he was going to kill all of them except for two and then torture those. Just say that he was going to kill all of them except for two and then torture those. Like that's not necessary.

Amanda: 22:51

Like I get the others are like bad dudes, but like we're gonna kill a bunch of them when he earlier in season, when he's like my torturing days are done like he went back to it real quick and like I get it like your friends are gone and like that's really scary and we want answers and I'm not opposed to that.

Kip: 23:07

But like his whole thing is, I'm gonna kill all of them except for two, like he has no idea how many are coming.

Amanda: 23:12

Like and like, yeah, I don't know, I guess maybe he's still super angry about Shannon being killed by them, but at the same time it's like it's if that was the reason. It would have been nice To hear some of that in this episode, like for him to say I'm not going to let them get away with what they did to Shannon, or something like that, some sort of exposition. Right, but just that, to be just like this murderous torturer.

Kip: 23:41

Yeah, like, yeah, exactly Like you're saying. He could have been, like there could have been like even like a little like mini convo with him and Sun and Jin, where they're like are you, that seems harsh. And then he's like not harsh, like look at what they did, look at what they've done to everyone. It's like kind of a reminder, because it does, it does seem harsh.

Kip: 23:57

Yeah, it does At the end of the day and like I guess we're normal memories and we should be able to kind of remember all this stuff. But I also so essentially with saeed as well, I kind of thought we were past that a bit. Not that he obviously he's still upset about shannon, obviously he's not over it, but I thought he had let go of a lot of that anger when he was talking to annaluce yeah, exactly so if that is what it is, if he's just still angry and just still scared of them and still like whatever, I agree that some explanation, dialogue, exposition could have been used.

Kip: 24:30

But that's kind of the same with jen. I feel like we almost, like, went two steps forward, one step back with yeah almost all the characters this time yeah, I agree with you.

Amanda: 24:38

So, um, it was creepy when those others were stepping all over that boat and son was trying to oh, I know, but good for her.

Theresa: 24:46

Can we just talk about what a badass this bitch is?

Amanda: 24:50

Yeah, no, kidding Because.

Theresa: 24:52

I'm sorry, if I was on a boat by myself and I hear footsteps and I know that I should be by myself, I don't know that. I would be like finish putting the kettle on. I would have left the fire going and I would have hidden a corner. But no, she's like, I'm going to grab the gun, I'm going to hide in the shadows.

Amanda: 25:10

Motherfucker, motherfucker.

Kip: 25:15

But even that scene was kind of weird, Like what was her plan there? She was like Son or Colleen. Son.

Amanda: 25:22

Oh, I Defense.

Kip: 25:26

Yeah, I don't know if that I thought that was that weird, because like she was just, I think, defending herself and but what so, colleen, lets her leave? What's gonna happen with the other people, right like?

Amanda: 25:36

what do you mean?

Kip: 25:37

like like the other people on the boat yeah, like I think son almost needed to be more aggressive there oh do you know what I mean like but I but I think that's why, but I think that's why it was an accident.

Theresa: 25:49

I think that's why it makes sense for her, though, because like she is badass in certain ways, but like she's never done these things also she said that if they got past her husband she wouldn't care.

Kip: 26:00

Clearly she's over. That instinct took over and she's like if my husband's gone?

Theresa: 26:03

it won't matter. And then she's over, that instinct took over and she's like, if my husband's gone it won't matter.

Kip: 26:07

And then she's like oh, just kidding, I can live without him. I must survive which, by the way, I agree with. That's the right attitude. I'm just saying how quickly we moved on from our dearly departed but that colleen was creepy. She's a weirdo, she's like your stream of consciousness, though she was weird she was weird, the whole time yeah like, what was?

Amanda: 26:29

well, we'll get to the other stuff. But what was with her jealousy when she's got a bow, the asshole other that I hate him.

Theresa: 26:35

Oh, he's such a jackass danny, that's it.

Amanda: 26:38

And then, um, she comes on to the boat and it's just all like.

Theresa: 26:43

I know you, son one kim yeah, I wanted to be like okay, I think it's one son walk one son walk yeah yeah, it was just one of those things where she was like a part of me was like are you trying to like freak her out and just like get her to like drop?

Amanda: 26:59

her guard.

Theresa: 27:00

Because it's not working. If anything you're you're so creepy that like the gun is not going down. I was expecting her to start talking korean any second, like it was just like what I could see. Because it's not working If anything.

Amanda: 27:06

You're so creepy that the gun is not going down. I was expecting her to start talking.

Kip: 27:08

Korean any second. It was just like what I could see Juliet doing that.

Amanda: 27:11

Yeah.

Kip: 27:11

Oh 100% Juliet would just walk up and be like hi and then just start speaking Korean to them to calm them.

Amanda: 27:17

Juliet would be sweet, not like weirdo Colleen.

Theresa: 27:19

Yeah, Colleen was just not. She was not the vibe.

Amanda: 27:27

It was not. She was not the vibe, it was. I thought it was funny when tom just like shoots at her, also kind of out of character, for well, no, I shouldn't say he did steal a kid off a boat, and then they did start shooting at him. Yeah, yeah, so no tom just shoots first, asks questions later.

Kip: 27:37

Yeah, but yeah, the jealousy, like is it just that everyone's like wants ben's? I think so right hand man of Ben like is that. And then they all are upset that he's continually choosing someone who clearly yeah, I think they all just want to be like Ben's BFF.

Theresa: 27:54

I just like that. Juliet is just so unbothered. I know like clearly Colleen has like an issue and she Juliet, just kind of tilts her head and is like okay but that's juliet's attitude with everything like I love it she's, she's so crazy.

Kip: 28:09

Yeah, like she's so cool I love it yeah so, jen, like I don't know, it's hard to even like follow like a linear path to talk about this one, because there's so little that kind of happens. But the sun, jen, I mean really that's, I guess, supposed to be the main storyline, right, I know?

Amanda: 28:25

that's the a plot to be the main storyline. Right, I know that's the A plot, yeah, and it's not that fulfilling.

Theresa: 28:29

No, it feels the whole episode kind of felt like kind of patchy yeah, Like just kind of like things kind of like put together.

Kip: 28:35

And even like the whole, like now that I'm thinking back on it, like even just how this stuff happened with like Saeed being like like we're lying to jinn and then jinn realizing they're not. Like there was so many points in that I thought it was going to turn out that she had confided in him or she had like I thought it's going to be.

Kip: 28:53

Like I told him the plan saeed, that's why he knows, like something like that. Because I'm like the whole time. I'm like we're learning a lesson in the flashbacks of betrayal and silence and dishonesty with jinn has led you to on both their parts, by the way like I'm not just, I'm not, I'm not like leaving this all at sun's no, no but like dishonesty and betrayal and like manipulation in your relationship has been a problem.

Kip: 29:17

Yeah, we're working on that. So I thought it was going to be like she's going to turn around and be like sorry saeed. I had to tell him like he's my husband not. Oh, I guess his english is better than I thought I know so that the whole thing just felt like it was.

Amanda: 29:33

I mean, I believed her when she said when, when jinn asked, why did you come? And she said because I didn't want to be without you or or not be with you. I believe that, especially considering they were going on a boat after what happened on the raft and all that, like she just wouldn't want to be without him well, the thing is like it's good.

Kip: 29:52

I think it's good that she is making some changes, but changes in the sense of like she's owning her, like behavior more, in the sense of like putting herself out there and what she wants, and feels with him. That's true.

Kip: 30:05

But and that's great and that is what we want to see. But you still have to take some ownership to like how your relationship is going to be going forward. Please do that Like don't let him walk all over you, don't let him run the show, don't let him be in any way abusive, emotionally or like, whatever the way it might be. Don't allow him to get away with that. But you do also have to you know kind of practice. What you preach in terms of like being honest with him and being upfront with him and trying to be consistent with like what that's going to look like, because I think that's part of the problem for him, right Is that she like what. What is she thinking a lot of the time? What is she? Where is she going with stuff? What does she want to see happen here?

Amanda: 30:52

yeah, yeah, it's really confusing all right, let's go to b plot I guess that's so I and kate and their rock chippin days oh, but they're so, they're so cute. So he was so good this episode he was just he's getting even like he's losing more of the villain kind of aspect that he had the first couple seasons, season one especially but like and really laying into he's just sort of like a rough guy with a good heart kind of thing one might say he's a bad boy with a heart of gold.

Kip: 31:27

Bad boy, that's the one, that's the word, the classic trope.

Amanda: 31:30

Rough guy with a good heart isn't the one. I like it, though it was close.

Kip: 31:34

That's like our new TM version of it yeah. Except that he's creepy and kept looking at her.

Amanda: 31:39

Trying to look up her skirt. You guys, I think we'd be remiss not to mention that yeah that wasn't acceptable.

Kip: 31:46

Even kissing her was problematic that's so weird you know, he was just funny other than those, yeah I know why he did that it was to get the reaction out of the kiss I get.

Amanda: 31:55

Yeah, the eye on her up. Um, I mean, even when kate says, oh, do I have to wear? Don't you have something better for me to wear? He says you can take it off.

Kip: 32:08

Sorry, I was about to leer you.

Amanda: 32:11

Then he's like how dare you? That was pretty funny.

Kip: 32:14

It is of the time, but I agree he's come a long way. They are very cute at the end. I think they're so cute.

Theresa: 32:22

You taste like strawberries.

Kip: 32:24

You taste like fish biscuits. I'm glad they have each other. I don't really get what they're trying to make them do and I don't really understand why Juliet had to be there. Isn't Juliet watching Jack? Why does she also?

Amanda: 32:38

watch.

Kip: 32:38

Sawyer and Kate do this or whatever.

Amanda: 32:40

Why'd she have to bring him water?

Kip: 32:42

But that was very funny how he dumped it out.

Amanda: 32:46

Yeah, I don't know. Um, we know what they're building now, yeah, but um what? Oh, yeah, yeah, we know. Do you want to know? I can put a spoiler alert in here.

Theresa: 32:59

Spoiler alert or do you want no, no, okay, it's, okay, it's okay, yeah, so we know it.

Amanda: 33:04

It's just one of those things where I classically it was one of those questions that did get answered, but I think it was sort of underwhelming.

Kip: 33:14

Yeah, like I mean more like why do they have to be a part of it? Exactly Right Like why bring them out there. You know, I don't know. I know later on we're going to see kind of why they're all there, but I really do think that Sawyer and Kate don't really need to be there.

Amanda: 33:30

Yeah.

Kip: 33:31

For what the master plan is here.

Amanda: 33:34

They don't.

Kip: 33:34

They really only need Jack.

Amanda: 33:36

Yeah, exactly.

Kip: 33:38

And I know that.

Amanda: 33:39

Well, I know, that's what I said. There is, there is like more to it than that.

Kip: 33:47

But I'm just saying, in terms of the problems that this is going to create and risks that they open up by having all three of them, it seems a little Risky.

Theresa: 33:54

Totally.

Amanda: 33:55

There's no idea what we're talking about.

Kip: 33:57

I'm trying to understand because obviously we try to keep it spoiler-free, so I'm trying to put the pieces together based on what you're saying, but what you're saying is so vague that I'm not putting anything together picking up anything literally none, yeah well, I don't think it's that shocking to know that, like there's obviously a reason that they kept them and they're alive right like that just makes the most sense, right and there's a reason why jack is separated off from the two of them, right, and there's just going to be more of that kind of juliet's very involved. I think it's very interesting because you said she's like unbothered.

Kip: 34:29

She's unbothered at like every kind of turn yeah like even when they turn around and she's got the gun pointed on kate. It's just so casual she's just so chill she's so chill.

Theresa: 34:39

But the best part I think about that is when sawyer is talking about how they're essentially non-threatening, other than like the bigger guy, um, and like one of them who can probably do some kind of kung fu, as I think he said, and then he's like but that blonde chick that had the gun to you, she would shoot you yeah like in sense that she's

Amanda: 35:00

she was serious business even though she's she on the outside, she's just like, like a school teacher but that's probably why he feels that way yeah, because she wasn't putting up some crazy front of just like screaming at him and being all angry, just like, no, I'll just shoot her if you don't stop, I'm just gonna shoot her like I, literally I don't care, literally could care less exactly and that's scary, it is scary yeah she's really scary and the fact that she does not seem to be afraid of them.

Kip: 35:29

Even when jack took her hostage for that moment in the last episode, she was obviously heightened, but still very calm and the only time she really started to freak out was when she tried to escape before the water was coming in. But that just makes sense. But she's able to keep kind of a cool and like yeah, it's, it's, she's a cucumber as in, cool as a yes, and it's.

Theresa: 35:50

It's very interesting because, like the last episode, you see that she gets kind of frazzled with the like muffins and the but, like when it comes to, like, getting down to business, she's just like, she's a boss, no fucks, no 90%.

Amanda: 36:05

Yeah, so I mean there's not well, yeah, like let's talk about the final scene with Ben and Jack, unless there's more with Kate and Sawyer. I mean kind of covered it. There's really not a whole lot that happens.

Theresa: 36:15

No, I mean there's Alex.

Amanda: 36:17

Yeah, I was going to say there's Alex.

Theresa: 36:19

Yeah, there's Right Interaction.

Amanda: 36:21

And we were obviously like, if you're watching for the first time, you remember her from last season. Just this like.

Kip: 36:26

The person who helped Claire.

Amanda: 36:28

Who helped Claire, right? So we know she's good in a sense, at least somewhat, and it's Kate's, or Kate's wearing her dress, kind of awkward. Alex is very adorable. Yeah, she is. She just kind of like kid and then she's asking about carl carl, who's since gone missing yeah, well they dragged him off. Remember they caught him yes, I remember he tried to get sawyer yeah, and we don't know where carl is right now, but I'm sure it's not good I can't imagine it's if he was in a cage?

Kip: 37:04

breakfast on the beach with Ben right now, exactly, oh yeah.

Amanda: 37:08

So yeah, I mean Jack, and Ben Ben walks in.

Kip: 37:12

Well, first we should just always keep in mind, because it will come in handy later.

Amanda: 37:17

Ben is monitoring all of them at all times, which is creepy as fuck Like how does?

Kip: 37:21

he like. What does he do all day? Just sit there and watch them all.

Amanda: 37:24

I guess so.

Kip: 37:24

Probably.

Amanda: 37:26

And lament that Juliet never brought him soup.

Theresa: 37:30

Yeah, that's so weird.

Amanda: 37:32

Yeah, so Ben's creepy and watches everybody on camera all day.

Theresa: 37:35

Yeah, that was a terrifying revelation. I mean, you kind of saw that he was in like this weird kind of room, but then you know there's all this other shit going on so you're not really paying attention to like what's happening.

Amanda: 37:48

And then all of a sudden he just sits there staring yeah, learning everything, and then it does sort of give you a glimpse into how he's able to manipulate people so well, because he just can. Literally he knows from watching them. He knows what they're doing and what they're saying.

Kip: 38:01

How does he know, how do they know?

Amanda: 38:04

all this information. Well, he says, they can communicate Offshore.

Kip: 38:09

Okay, so Jack.

Amanda: 38:11

Jack and Ben Jack.

Kip: 38:12

finally, gets some screen time. Jack's still being emo in the corner. He's just sitting there.

Amanda: 38:16

I mean, what else would you do? Right Like you don't. You don't nothing's happening. They're not telling you anything.

Theresa: 38:23

Yeah, you're essentially just stuck in a room. Yeah, going to hunger strike.

Kip: 38:26

I really did love that little scene with them. I think that was the highlight of the whole episode for me it was yeah how he brings in that little like director's chair and sits down. He's like, oh, we could go. It was the other way around. I'm like holy shit, yeah, I guess it was hey terrifying.

Amanda: 38:39

He was like legitimately like kind of surprised that jack wouldn't shake his hand. He's like kind of hurt it.

Kip: 38:45

Jack wouldn't shake his hand.

Amanda: 38:46

He's like kind of hurt. It's like what do you expect?

Kip: 38:48

But like, and then him saying you know, that's all I can tell you right now, and he's like, you can tell me anything you want. He's like okay, you're right, it's all I want to tell you.

Amanda: 38:56

Oh, I know he's so good.

Theresa: 38:58

Ben's got the best lines.

Amanda: 39:08

How fun was it that he like those little, exact like little current events.

Kip: 39:11

He told him about.

Amanda: 39:12

Yeah, it was like a career, like to think of those in real time.

Theresa: 39:14

Yeah, george w bush um red socks.

Kip: 39:15

There was another one he said right, yeah yeah, weird, so long ago I I kind of like this Shows don't often do that Like. They often like kind of don't bring in real like. Even like on some shows where there's a president, it's always usually like a fake president, Like. So I love that they like did that Cause, then it like really brings you back, Like oh yeah, this was supposed to be happening at this time and all this other crazy stuff is happening.

Amanda: 39:44

You mentioned something in your stream about the Red Sox thing. What was that about?

Theresa: 39:51

again, Like just how did they get it? Or oh I think how.

Amanda: 40:05

Ben had the Red Sox footage ready, as though he knew that that was the direction the conversation was going to go in. Well, I think, um, the Red Sox winning was like a monumentous thing, cause I think they had no one in like ever or like forever or yeah something ridiculous like that, so it would be something very, very unbelievable.

Kip: 40:18

Yeah, so to be able to prove that did win eight in eight straight, which was crazy Cause that's like an it's the same as hockey, so that meant like there's like a.

Theresa: 40:33

They came back from a three, so they won that series and then the next one in four, like yeah, I remember any hockey team ever done that? Probably not because I remember fever pitch.

Kip: 40:39

I remember that movie jimmy fallon yeah weird no, I don't know how like he was like a big Red Sox man and then in the movie um the Red Sox actually win yeah, that movie came out right after this yeah yeah, oh really, and it was like this, like huge deal, or whatever so I think that that was kind of like he knew by telling him that that was probably going to be the thing he would have a hard time believing, and that's like why it's funny, right, yeah, but I agree with I. I think I know where you're going like.

Theresa: 41:09

What you're kind of getting at, though, is like ben knows that there's going to be no trust yeah and he's going to have to prove it to him somehow yeah, like that's very like calculated and very like it's very scary, honestly, to know what direction a conversation is going to go in before you have it, and that just speaks to how much like he knows them yeah, and it also, I think is proves his ability to manipulate conversations like he probably was somehow subtly able to get him there to be able to use that footage like he's a master manipulator right, yeah, he can kind of get people to do whatever he wants just like um

Amanda: 41:50

terrifying it was. I think it was the yeah I agree man of the best scene of the whole episode. Just, obviously anything with ben is great, but it was the only thing that kind of gave us like a little bit of intrigue and and something satisfying yeah, so how do we feel overall about how let's do a character check-in?

Kip: 42:09

how about on these more filler episodes let's do like a character checker? How are we feeling about jack?

Amanda: 42:16

uh, I mean I'm feeling like he's just sort of stuck like I don't know. He's not really able to do anything.

Kip: 42:28

That's why he's probably being so emo I do like that he still has his little jabs right, like he's still gonna be like no, like he's still not backing down to them but, like you know, like in the way he can, like he can't do a lot, but he's not gonna just like acquiesce to like everything.

Theresa: 42:43

Yeah, he's like dejected but not defeated, yeah.

Amanda: 42:46

I mean I, I, I, I like what he's doing, Cause it's in character, like you say. I don't, but in terms of like other things he's not really. There's only so much he can do.

Kip: 42:57

Yeah, there's only so much they can do with him right now. Every episode, oh, I know, but wow, okay all right, how are we feeling about ben?

Theresa: 43:12

we won't do all of them, we'll just do a couple of the bigger ones. Ben freaks me out like he just really that that end scene like really freaked me out about ben, just like that manipulation, like you knew that he was manipulative, you knew that he said manipulative, you knew that he said did certain things to make you believe certain things. But like to control an entire conversation to me is before it happens. It's like really freaky.

Kip: 43:35

Well, you know it's. I found it really interesting when Jack's like you don't have access to the outside world I'm paraphrasing, obviously, cause like why would you be here if you did? And he's like why would we be here? And I'm just I remember me like ah, like what, why are they there?

Theresa: 43:53

if that's true, and he like he, he's like challenging jack to be like yeah, it's weird right must be something right like yeah, exactly interesting, okay, finally, and I know this, didn't talk about ben oh sorry yeah, I don't know the same thing.

Amanda: 44:03

He's just like even scarier he. He's weirder, just more mysterious. So we just want to know more about him at this point, as much as we can get.

Theresa: 44:11

Yeah, all we really know is his name is Benjamin Linus and he was born.

Amanda: 44:16

Yeah.

Theresa: 44:16

This is what I mean. This is all he's saying, right Like. And then he was born and grew up on that Island.

Kip: 44:23

All right, grew up on that island. All right. All of this was really just a way to get at this final question for you, teresa how do you feel about? Oh my god this is all the lead up to that.

Amanda: 44:31

This is I knew it.

Kip: 44:33

I knew it manipulation you didn't do that good a job, because I knew you were going this way.

Theresa: 44:38

I'm no Ben Linus, so if anything that tells me more about how well I know you. I'm like she's gonna ask how. So how I feel about son, you're your beloved.

Kip: 44:45

like queen know you, I'm like she's going to ask how I feel about Sun how do you feel?

Theresa: 44:48

about.

Amanda: 44:49

Sun your beloved like queen.

Theresa: 44:50

Yeah, I mean I'm disappointed. I won't say that I'm not disappointed, especially because she was so adamant to him that she didn't cheat.

Theresa: 45:00

So then to find out that she did like obviously you guys like told me that she did or whatever, and I have seen the show so I knew that she did, but I just clearly blocked that out of my mind. Um, it was just disappointing and like I know that she has had like a rough go with jen, but like then leave him. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like this is not cheating.

Kip: 45:21

Cheating is a tough one yeah, so cheating is a tough one, because cheating is not just about the cheating right, it's about deception and it's really hard. And that's why I do think that she needed like I really truly, even in the rewatch, having watched already I really did think she was going to come clean it at multiple parts of this episode because it just it seemed like such a good time to do it. And it's like we're doing this fresh start. We're both trying let's, let's, actually do it, because the issue is not going to just be like for I think for Jen and for most people, it's not about the actual physical act of cheating, it's about the betrayal and the lying.

Theresa: 46:02

Right. So that's tough betrayal and the lying right. So that's tough. It's a tough one, cheating stuff, and especially for her. Like I mean.

Theresa: 46:10

I feel like I've been deceived, like I'm not jinn in this situation, but like I believed her I like full-on believed her, like I remember just not being okay when we recorded that podcast episode, when you guys told me and I just remember thinking, like when we recorded that podcast episode, when you guys told me and I just remember thinking like like I straight up believed it, and this is after having watched the show I still believed her. Like that's upsetting. So as to your question, kip of Teresa, are you okay? No, no. I am unwell, but, as I've said before, she is actually not my favorite character.

Amanda: 46:47

No.

Theresa: 46:47

So it's okay.

Amanda: 46:48

Yeah.

Theresa: 46:50

Kind of.

Amanda: 46:50

Well, I mean, I think that's a good lead into your character rankings. Yeah, let's see how far she fell.

Theresa: 46:58

Did she take a dive? I'm sure she did. Did she take a dive? All right, so at number 14, we have Charlie with negative 585. Then we have Ben with negative 110. We have Juliet with negative 30. And then at 11, we have Desmond with 350. Then we have Kate with 590. Claire with 780. Locke with 1070. Claire with 780. Locke with 1070. Jack with 1130. Sir with 1350. Jen rounds up our top five with 1425. Sun has 1530. Echo is 1695. Sight is 1805. And Hurley is at the top with 2255. I'm missing a number and I think it's at the end Because I write it down separately, but I'm pretty sure it's 2255. Wow, sun did go down.

Amanda: 48:02

Do you know by how much?

Theresa: 48:03

Like 150 points or something like that.

Amanda: 48:05

Oh, I thought it'd be more.

Theresa: 48:06

It was more, but she gained points. Yeah, of course, yeah so her net was negative 150.

Amanda: 48:14

That's pretty bad yeah it's not great. Net negative 150.

Kip: 48:18

Yeah, it's not good.

Amanda: 48:19

Not good, not good.

Kip: 48:21

Not good for Queen. Sun Sun, no Sun good for queen, son, son.

Theresa: 48:23

No, son, son, son. I'm no longer son, knee side up.

Amanda: 48:29

No, and I don't think that she's misunderstood no, alrighty, how do we feel about the episode? I mean, I think it's pretty clear I'm gonna give it a seven and a. It's pretty clear I'm gonna give it a seven and a half out of ten.

Kip: 48:49

I was gonna give it a seven and a half out of ten. You know what's really funny.

Amanda: 48:51

You were too, yes it's like walkabout, but not the only thing it shares is that we all rated it the same thing yeah yeah, it's just disappointing, being the second episode in the season, to be this sort of wah-wah, as Teresa might say.

Theresa: 49:11

Yeah, well for the other season wah-wah yeah, wah-wah yeah.

Kip: 49:13

Yeah, it's too bad. There's not even really anything to say about the rating.

Amanda: 49:17

No.

Kip: 49:17

Exactly.

Theresa: 49:18

No, yeah, for me it's just okay.

Kip: 49:20

It's patchy, there's some good moments, but not the best episode no, so we'll leave it there for today folks nice and easy you can't make it more than what it is that's right, but it is going to get better it is it's still a great show. It will get better and we will see you next week bye.