Theresa:
[00:00:00 - 00:00:08]
Welcome back to let's Get Lost. I'm Theresa, one of your hosts. It's really. 

Amanda:
[00:00:08 - 00:00:09]
No, it's fine. 

Theresa:
[00:00:09 - 00:00:10]
It's so cute. So bad. 

Kip:
[00:00:11 - 00:00:12]
It's not bad, Teresa. 

Amanda:
[00:00:13 - 00:00:20]
So funny. Because you, like, thought about it for so long, and then. Yeah, anyway, it was so funny. You're Theresa. You're. 

Theresa:
[00:00:20 - 00:00:26]
Anyways, I'm Teresa. I'm trying to start the pod today. It's not going well. 

Amanda:
[00:00:26 - 00:00:28]
Well, who are you with? 

Theresa:
[00:00:28 - 00:00:34]
I was about to say, to my left, we have Kipperoni. 

Kip:
[00:00:34 - 00:00:34]
Hi. 

Theresa:
[00:00:35 - 00:00:37]
And then to my right, we have Hesseroni. 

Amanda:
[00:00:37 - 00:00:39]
Children's Dental World. 

Kip:
[00:00:39 - 00:00:40]
Ping. 

Theresa:
[00:00:42 - 00:01:08]
I don't know if that part was. Is gonna be included on this episode or sponsor us. That would be weird. But we were talking about before we started recording or we were already recording or whatever, when someone sings a song and then they stop, and then minutes later, you sing the same song. 

Kip:
[00:01:08 - 00:01:18]
Yeah. You said you won because you were singing a song, and then five seconds later, Amanda was singing. You're like, I win. I'm like, what? What do you win? I don't understand the game. 

Theresa:
[00:01:18 - 00:01:20]
Yeah, and then you explained it, and. 

Amanda:
[00:01:20 - 00:01:23]
She wins all the time because I am so susceptible to that. 

Theresa:
[00:01:24 - 00:01:27]
And one of the songs I sang today was Children's Dental World. 

Amanda:
[00:01:28 - 00:01:48]
Like, if she were just, like, right now, just because she also likes to write jingles. If she were to write a song about how awful I am, or even worse, like, if she were to start singing a song about how awful you were, there is a chance in 10 minutes I would also be singing that. Well, because I care more about saying about you than myself. But, like, I would literally. If she was, like, starting like, kip's a dick. Then, like. 

Theresa:
[00:01:52 - 00:01:53]
Escalated. 

Kip:
[00:01:53 - 00:01:59]
Oh, just imagine, like, Kip's a dick. Just imagine. Oh, my God. 

Amanda:
[00:01:59 - 00:02:10]
Imagine she's like, you know, Kip's a. Yeah, Kip's a. Like, that'd be. So that's how it's not good, is. My point is that she shouldn't manipulate me into saying bad things. 

Theresa:
[00:02:10 - 00:02:11]
I'm not manipulating. 

Kip:
[00:02:11 - 00:02:14]
You're the one who said it. Don't make it seem. 

Amanda:
[00:02:14 - 00:02:17]
I just think she could use this power for. For evil if she's not. 

Theresa:
[00:02:17 - 00:02:37]
I don't use it for evil. I'm very. I just like to sing to myself. But there's. I. I know what you're talking about. I wrote a song. I wrote a song for Amanda's friend, and then Amanda got mad because she was like, I'm gonna see this person soon. If I sing this song, I'm gonna Kill you. It wasn't even a bad song. 

Amanda:
[00:02:37 - 00:02:42]
No, but my point is that it gets. It's. They're. They're very, very catchy, and that's why jingles work. 

Kip:
[00:02:42 - 00:02:49]
So is it. Are you like that with anyone? They sing a song, you'll start singing. Or is it Theresa specifically? 

Amanda:
[00:02:50 - 00:03:01]
She does it a lot. We can still do our boss from the theater from, like, 20 years ago saying that made a little jingle about wanting to go to Costco. And still when we go to Costco. 

Theresa:
[00:03:01 - 00:03:04]
20 years later, Roxy, this one's for you. 

Amanda:
[00:03:04 - 00:03:16]
I want to go. I want to go to Costco. Right. 20 years later. Because it just. It gets stuck in your head, and she's just very. Teresa just sings a lot, so it always gets stuck in my head. 

Kip:
[00:03:16 - 00:03:24]
Teresa has a very good memory for those types of things. Not lost. No. Good memory for, like, catchy jingles. 

Theresa:
[00:03:24 - 00:03:25]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:03:25 - 00:03:26]
Funny little tidbits. 

Theresa:
[00:03:27 - 00:03:28]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:03:30 - 00:03:35]
For example, Teresa, did you remember that Kate got married? 

Theresa:
[00:03:35 - 00:03:36]
No. 

Kip:
[00:03:36 - 00:03:37]
Wow. 

Amanda:
[00:03:37 - 00:03:38]
Okay. 

Theresa:
[00:03:38 - 00:03:38]
No. 

Amanda:
[00:03:38 - 00:03:40]
That is what we're talking about here today. 

Theresa:
[00:03:40 - 00:03:46]
Horrified. But you know what? That's a good segue into the. Into the episode. Amanda, why don't you tell us what this episode's about? 

Amanda:
[00:03:46 - 00:04:15]
So episode six of season three, I do was written by Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse and directed by Tucker Gates. The others use Kate to persuade Jack to save Ben's life, but Kate has a plan of her own. The castaways demand answers from Locke regarding the death of Mr. Echo. A flashback shows Kate preparing for her wedding but having second thoughts about more than just being married. I would say Jack had a plan of his own. 

Kip:
[00:04:15 - 00:04:23]
I don't know. Kate did not. And what? Castaways questioned Locke, I guess Saeed. But it wasn't about Echo's death. 

Amanda:
[00:04:23 - 00:04:25]
No. Well, they asked, like, who. Who do you think killed him? 

Kip:
[00:04:25 - 00:04:26]
Oh, right. 

Amanda:
[00:04:26 - 00:04:30]
Like, I wouldn't call that questioning. So how did he die, do we think? 

Theresa:
[00:04:30 - 00:04:33]
And then he was like. It was maybe a bear or a boar. 

Amanda:
[00:04:33 - 00:04:34]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:04:34 - 00:04:34]
Yeah. 

Theresa:
[00:04:34 - 00:04:36]
And then that was the end of the story. 

Amanda:
[00:04:36 - 00:04:36]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:04:36 - 00:04:40]
You know, we were having a good role in the synopsis for a while. This one was not good. 

Theresa:
[00:04:40 - 00:04:41]
Yeah. This one fell short. 

Kip:
[00:04:41 - 00:04:53]
All right. 8.5 out of 10 on IMDb. 17.15 million viewers. Two nicknames from Sawyer today. 

Theresa:
[00:04:53 - 00:04:54]
Freckles. 

Kip:
[00:04:54 - 00:04:55]
That's one. Yes. 

Theresa:
[00:04:55 - 00:04:58]
And Bl. Blockhead. 

Kip:
[00:04:58 - 00:05:03]
Yeah, it's very weird. I had to rewind it and listen a few times. Like, what's he saying? Blockhead. 

Theresa:
[00:05:03 - 00:05:03]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:05:03 - 00:05:04]
For Danny, right? 

Kip:
[00:05:04 - 00:05:07]
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And days 72, 73 on the island. 

Amanda:
[00:05:07 - 00:05:08]
Hey. 

Kip:
[00:05:09 - 00:05:13]
Okay, I have two trivia questions for you. 

Theresa:
[00:05:13 - 00:05:13]
Oh, no. 

Kip:
[00:05:13 - 00:05:15]
Do you have your hands ready? 

Theresa:
[00:05:17 - 00:05:20]
I'm already, like. I'm thinking so hard right now. 

Kip:
[00:05:20 - 00:05:24]
Okay. This episode marks the first mention of this character's name. 

Amanda:
[00:05:27 - 00:05:30]
We both know what it is. Should you say it on 1, 2, 3? 1, 2, 3. 

Theresa:
[00:05:31 - 00:05:31]
Jacob. 

Kip:
[00:05:31 - 00:05:33]
Correct. Yes, correct. 

Amanda:
[00:05:33 - 00:05:44]
That was my favorite moment of the whole episode. And that was insane. And I did not think that they did that that casually. And I didn't think they did it that soon. And I have so many things to say about them. 

Kip:
[00:05:44 - 00:05:51]
So casual. Okay, question two. Nathan Fillion and Evangeline Lily are both from this Canadian Provence. 

Amanda:
[00:05:53 - 00:05:57]
Alberto. Damn it. It's Alberta. 

Theresa:
[00:06:02 - 00:06:04]
I'm so sorry. 

Kip:
[00:06:04 - 00:06:10]
I can't wait to make that into a sound bite. Kid, Run. Damage. 

Theresa:
[00:06:12 - 00:06:14]
I'm so sorry. 

Kip:
[00:06:14 - 00:06:16]
I didn't mean to. 

Amanda:
[00:06:17 - 00:06:18]
Run. 

Kip:
[00:06:18 - 00:06:19]
Damn it. 

Theresa:
[00:06:20 - 00:06:22]
I don't know how that happened. 

Kip:
[00:06:23 - 00:06:25]
Oh, but yes, Amanda, you are right. 

Amanda:
[00:06:25 - 00:06:33]
It is not Nathan Julian was born in Edmonton. Edmonton. I actually don't know where. If you hadn't said they were both from the same. I didn't know Evangeline Lily was from. 

Kip:
[00:06:34 - 00:06:37]
I figured you would get it because I. I figured you would know where Nathan Fillion's from. 

Amanda:
[00:06:37 - 00:06:40]
I love Nathan Fillion. I love that he's in this episode. He's so adorbs. 

Kip:
[00:06:40 - 00:06:41]
He's great. 

Theresa:
[00:06:41 - 00:06:42]
Kevin. 

Kip:
[00:06:43 - 00:06:52]
Yeah. Okay, that's it for trivia for today. So we now heading over to Amanda for your high level takeaway. 

Amanda:
[00:06:52 - 00:06:54]
Nathan Fillion doesn't age. 

Theresa:
[00:06:54 - 00:06:55]
True. 

Kip:
[00:06:55 - 00:06:56]
He does not. 

Amanda:
[00:06:56 - 00:07:12]
He does not age. I, like, expected. I remember he was in this episode. I remember he was Kevin, but I thought that he would look like. Like a little baby Nathan Fillion, but he kind of just looks exactly the same. He really doesn't age. It's that good. Alberta. Water, everyone. 

Kip:
[00:07:12 - 00:07:14]
But have you seen him lately? 

Amanda:
[00:07:14 - 00:07:15]
Yes, I watched the Rookie. 

Kip:
[00:07:15 - 00:07:19]
Oh, okay. Because I was gonna say I really haven't seen him since he has aged a bit. 

Amanda:
[00:07:19 - 00:07:40]
But, like, he looks really great and like, he's just. I love him so much and I'm really, really glad they have some great guest stars. That's really my high level takeaways that I love watching old shows that like. Like when you go back and you realize that people that were, like, not really known then, but then, like, they get known after the fact. 

Kip:
[00:07:41 - 00:07:41]
That's cool. 

Amanda:
[00:07:41 - 00:07:48]
And then you get to go see them in these, like, little, like, rules. It's so fun. Like, sometimes I'll do that with like, MASH or like, a show that's like, really, really old. And you're like, oh, it's fun to. 

Kip:
[00:07:48 - 00:07:54]
Do it with Seinfeld and see who, like, who their girlfriends are and, like, who they're like. Often they're actresses that go on to. 

Amanda:
[00:07:54 - 00:08:00]
Do, like, really, like, Kristen Davis is one of his girlfriends, and Lauren Graham is. 

Kip:
[00:08:00 - 00:08:08]
And what's the lady. She's crazy popular right now. She was in a very early episode. She's in White Lotus and like, oh. 

Amanda:
[00:08:08 - 00:08:09]
I know you're not. 

Kip:
[00:08:11 - 00:08:14]
Is it the one that was in Coolidge? Jennifer Coolidge? Yes. 

Amanda:
[00:08:14 - 00:08:15]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:08:15 - 00:08:21]
Yeah. She's like one of his early girlfriends. And isn't the Jennifer Coolidge we know and love today? It's. But it's so cool when that happens. I agree. 

Amanda:
[00:08:21 - 00:08:32]
Yeah. It's really fun to, like, go back and look at. Back to the topic at hand for a little recap through Teresa's stream of consciousness. 

Theresa:
[00:08:32 - 00:11:22]
Also, I do. Who are this? Oh, it's Kate. We got ourselves a Kate episode. What's in the box, Kate? What's in the box? Oh, it's a veil. Oh, and now it's police. This feels like they're playing some kind of sex game. Oh, and they are playing some kind of sex game. Oh, it's so sad that Sawyer's so defeated. Hi, Benjamin. Don't you look hopeful at our Jackie boy? Wow. Jack's bedside manner to Ben. I love it. It's all he deserves, honestly. Oh, damn, Jack. Is this all ploy to convince Ben that they're not in cahoots? Or are they in cahoots? Did Jack decide to go into cahoots? I guess we're not sure. Damn, Jack. You brutes. Magots. Where's Kate in this? Where is this in the Kate timeline? Who is this guy? Wait, what? They're engaged. Say her name so I know if So I know if you know if it's Kate or not. Kate loves someone else other than her childhood friend. Wait, is this real? Nope. You said Monica. Her name ain't Monica. We are on fugitive Kate. A man of a woman of many aliases. I don't like dejected Sawyer. Oh, no. Echo. So sad. They're gonna hide Echo. What? And just tell everyone he off? What do I feel like? Saeed thinks something is up? Okay, so Saeed doesn't believe the bear story. I'm sorry. You're not headed to camp? Where are you headed then? Who. Who is she? Oh, Alex. Look at her. Little badass. Oh, she's so upset. Excuse me. Why won't anyone give Kate a hair tie? What's with this whole we're gonna kill Sawyer bid? Did the others know about their little love triangle? Is that why they wanted the three to manipulate each one? I'm sorry. Who's this lady now? Kevin's mom. Okay, that's sweet. Give her an heirloom to her future daughter in law. Except you know she's a liar. Kate, you cannot go through with this. No. No, this should not happen. What you see is someone who says they are someone who they are not. Do not do this, Kate. Do not. And she did it. You liar. This is messed up. Juliette, where are you taking her? I bet it's to see Jack to manipulate him into doing the surgery. I knew it. Aw, look at Jack react to her. He looks like he could cry. Man, they want to touch so bad. Nice of Juliet to leave them alone, though. Well, he cares so much about Kate. Smart of them to use him. To use her to ask him. Jack is so pissed, Ben. I don't think he wants to save your life, my dude. Or even try. Okay, so Monica is just living it up as a fake person. And she's with an officer. I'm sorry, what if her fugitive picture comes up in their database? Why are you in a phone booth? Get to your car. 

Amanda:
[00:11:23 - 00:11:23]
You know what? 

Theresa:
[00:11:23 - 00:13:48]
Kate has great arms. I'm sorry, what on earth is happening? She has a direct number. She has the Marshall's direct number. Why would she call him? Oh, my God, Kate, that's not how it works. You can't just say please, and then all of your alleged sins are forgiven. Man, Danny is such a douchebag. I'm glad they're giving Echo a service. Oh, they picked up his stick. That's nice. Lift up your eyes and look north. Means what to you, John? This is cute. They their little fight. I love this conversation. Oh, dear. Is it because you think he's gonna die? You want to give him a little sugar dug before he dies? Y'all do not have condoms on this island. You know, they can see you, but I get it. Cage sex is hot. All right? They dumb boned. You know, Kevin and Monica would make a pretty cute married couple if she wasn't, you know, a liar. Oh, Kevin. I don't think she can fly, my friend. What are you gonna do, Monica? Oh, my goodness. Sawyer and Kate post coitus. Ew, James, don't ask her that. I was surprised no one has come by. Or that Ben hasn't tried to stop the porn show. I'm sure he was watching. Oh, my Lanta. What is happening? What's with the static? What's going on? I'm sorry. The door. What the fuck? Why is it open? I'm scared. Why is no one watching these damn hostages? Oh my God. This is ft. He's gonna see them boning or. Never mind. He's gonna find some guns. Why is Jack so good at guns? And why are his arms so hot? Oh, he saw them naked and canoodling. This was on purpose. Jack, you're not gonna shoot him. Be real. Wait, why operate now? Do we believe him? That Benjamin will keep his word? I don't know. Oh, they put their clothes on to canoodle overnight. Kate, what are you doing? Kate, are you happy or sad that you're pregnant? I can't tell. Should you be getting pregnant if you're, you know, wanted? Oh, so now you're gonna tell the truth? This poor man. Oh my God, Kate. And you drugged him. What did you drug him with that you just had at home? Does he get divorced now? Is it annulled? Can you get divorced and or annulled without the other person present? How does this work for his future? You really screwed him up here. Oh no. They're gonna operate. Wait, who's prepping Ben right now? We're doing this then. Okay. Yep, we're doing this. Who's with them? 

Amanda:
[00:13:48 - 00:13:48]
Who? 

Theresa:
[00:13:48 - 00:14:19]
Jacob's list. They say it that early? Who's watching on the monitor? Or do they have people who are okay with blood and know some stuff about surgery? So they're just in the room? What the hell is happening right now? You should. Should you be removing your mask? What is happening? This is so intense. Sorry. He's just gonna take it for her. Jack's taking his gloves off. What's Jack gonna do? Oh my God, this is so intense. Jack keeps telling them to run, but they don't. But he doesn't know they're on another island. The end. 

Amanda:
[00:14:22 - 00:14:34]
I did have a similar thought to when Jack takes his mask down and. And then takes his gloves off. I'm like, well, all this is going to be for not when Ben dies from an infection in a week. 

Kip:
[00:14:36 - 00:14:39]
You know, Kate wasn't pregnant though. 

Theresa:
[00:14:39 - 00:14:40]
No? No. 

Kip:
[00:14:40 - 00:14:43]
Oh, okay. I just didn't know if you gathered that. 

Theresa:
[00:14:43 - 00:14:50]
Yes, yes. Cuz I know that she saw that she wasn't pregnant. Then she was crying. I'm like, are you happy that you're not pregnant or are you sad that you're not pregnant? 

Amanda:
[00:14:51 - 00:14:59]
Yeah, yeah, we'll get there. But I do think that, yeah, she was a lot of mixed emotions there for sure. Most st. Oh, it's a good episode. 

Theresa:
[00:15:00 - 00:15:00]
It is a good episode. 

Kip:
[00:15:00 - 00:15:02]
It's a very good episode. 

Theresa:
[00:15:02 - 00:15:02]
I like it. 

Kip:
[00:15:02 - 00:15:03]
I love this episode. 

Amanda:
[00:15:03 - 00:15:07]
My heart was racing, like 90% of it. It's a really good episode. 

Theresa:
[00:15:07 - 00:15:08]
Very intense. 

Kip:
[00:15:11 - 00:15:13]
Well, where do you guys want to start? 

Amanda:
[00:15:16 - 00:15:19]
I think it makes sense maybe do the flashbacks. 

Kip:
[00:15:19 - 00:15:20]
Okay. 

Amanda:
[00:15:20 - 00:15:24]
Because you know, it was. Because it's very interesting to me because. 

Kip:
[00:15:24 - 00:15:27]
I have a question about the flashbacks. 

Theresa:
[00:15:27 - 00:15:30]
Okay. Kate's hair is bad. 

Kip:
[00:15:30 - 00:15:31]
Bad, right. 

Amanda:
[00:15:31 - 00:15:34]
It looks like she's like trying to go for like a house crazy. 

Kip:
[00:15:35 - 00:15:38]
It's so weird. Yeah, like 50s kind of. 

Theresa:
[00:15:38 - 00:15:41]
It was weird. Like very step from Monica. 

Amanda:
[00:15:41 - 00:15:44]
Yeah, it's like a very, I think like a very homey name. 

Kip:
[00:15:44 - 00:15:46]
Like put my hair like this. 

Amanda:
[00:15:46 - 00:15:48]
She goes shopping for taco night. 

Kip:
[00:15:48 - 00:15:52]
Like, okay, we got so much to talk about in the flashbacks. 

Amanda:
[00:15:52 - 00:15:53]
Yeah, it's a good one. 

Kip:
[00:15:53 - 00:16:24]
Yeah. Okay, so it starts with like this. She looks like she's being shady and unaware and this little game with a cop. And it's Nathan Fillion, which is great. Funny little story I was reading when I was researching the episode. But she was so excited to film that with Nathan Fillion that when she jumps into the hallway, the first take, they literally like barreled into the wall and like cost damage. They're like, we need to do that again. Not so intense. Yeah, that's pretty cute. 

Amanda:
[00:16:24 - 00:16:30]
That's really cute. Yeah, she. He's probably like a little bit of a like Canadian folk hero to her at that point. 

Theresa:
[00:16:30 - 00:16:30]
Right. 

Amanda:
[00:16:30 - 00:16:39]
Because Firefly would have happened. Two guys and a girl would have happened like a lot. It's like bigger, like earlier stuff happened. So that's really cool. 

Theresa:
[00:16:40 - 00:16:41]
Two guys and a girl. 

Kip:
[00:16:42 - 00:16:45]
Oh, what's two guys and a girl? 

Amanda:
[00:16:45 - 00:16:50]
Off. It was first known as two guys a girl in a pizza place. Oh yeah, I think Ryan Reynolds started on. 

Kip:
[00:16:50 - 00:16:52]
That's right. I remember that. 

Amanda:
[00:16:53 - 00:16:54]
He was in it for a bit. 

Kip:
[00:16:55 - 00:16:57]
So what'd you think of that whole hotel scene? 

Theresa:
[00:16:58 - 00:17:00]
I knew they were playing a sex game. 

Kip:
[00:17:00 - 00:17:02]
Yeah, you did. Called it. 

Amanda:
[00:17:02 - 00:17:04]
I would call that a sex game. 

Theresa:
[00:17:05 - 00:17:06]
It's the police. 

Amanda:
[00:17:06 - 00:17:08]
It seems like very drastic. 

Kip:
[00:17:08 - 00:17:10]
I'm in here alone, officer. Her. 

Amanda:
[00:17:10 - 00:17:11]
Yeah. Okay. 

Theresa:
[00:17:11 - 00:17:13]
It was very clear it was a sex game. 

Amanda:
[00:17:14 - 00:17:15]
I don't know. 

Theresa:
[00:17:15 - 00:17:17]
Cuz she literally leaps onto him after. 

Amanda:
[00:17:17 - 00:17:19]
No, like I know they were going. 

Kip:
[00:17:19 - 00:17:20]
To do it to be sexy, but. 

Amanda:
[00:17:20 - 00:17:24]
I don't know if it was like a game as much as like it's a sex. It's just like he's flirting with her. 

Theresa:
[00:17:24 - 00:17:26]
Well, it's a sex game. 

Amanda:
[00:17:26 - 00:17:27]
All Right. 

Theresa:
[00:17:27 - 00:17:29]
They're pretending not to know each other. 

Kip:
[00:17:29 - 00:17:30]
So role playing. 

Amanda:
[00:17:30 - 00:17:43]
So, like, Teresa is a good guide post for this, but do you like thinking back, like, when you first watch this episode? Do you buy into it at the beginning, or are you always kind of waiting for the fraud part from her? 

Theresa:
[00:17:44 - 00:18:01]
For me, I wasn't sure where we were in her timeline, and so I was waiting for him to say her name so then I would know whether or not she was Fugitive Kate or if this was pre Fugitive Kate. 

Amanda:
[00:18:03 - 00:18:18]
Once you. So once he. She says Monica and this and that, like, do you think this is some sort of con? Are you, like, always kind of waiting for the shoe to drop with her or. Because that's how I found myself when I would watch it at first, is like. Yeah, what's the. What's the angle here? What's the. 

Kip:
[00:18:18 - 00:18:55]
I didn't think. I didn't think she was conning him. I didn't get that sense. Like, I. I truly got the sense that she had fallen in love with this guy. Probably started out at first giving a fake name because it was easier, and she's a fugitive, and then it just snowballed and got out of hand. And it's like, how do you go back. How do you go back and, like, say the truth? Because that would be very hard. And I think it just became too big for her to backtrack on and probably had fear of, like, losing him or fear of obviously getting thrown in jail. So it was like, all this stuff. I didn't get the sense that it was a con, though. 

Amanda:
[00:18:55 - 00:19:10]
No. I do truly believe at the end of it, that she loves him. Him. But, I mean, like, when you first start watching it, like, it's hard to imagine. I think the Kate that we know, like, I think that the Marshall's assessment of her is more in line with, like, what we know of her. 

Theresa:
[00:19:10 - 00:19:23]
I think. I think it's like, I am, like, halfway to where you were at. I don't think she was conning him. Like, I didn't get that vibe, but I was waiting for, like, there to be something more. 

Amanda:
[00:19:23 - 00:19:26]
But that's what I'm saying. I don't think she was conning him. I never thought. 

Theresa:
[00:19:26 - 00:19:28]
No, I know, but, like, you were. 

Amanda:
[00:19:28 - 00:19:33]
Saying, like, I just always wondered, like, what she was playing at. 

Theresa:
[00:19:33 - 00:19:35]
Yeah, right. I feel like I was, like, halfway. 

Amanda:
[00:19:35 - 00:19:43]
There because I just don't. I agree with the Marshall. Like, so we get. Like, we can get there, but, like, she obviously marries the guy. Right? 

Theresa:
[00:19:43 - 00:19:44]
Which, by the way. No. 

Kip:
[00:19:45 - 00:20:00]
Yeah. Yeah. The marriage I mean, it was really, like, I felt really bad for Kate in this episode, like, especially the flashback scenes, you know, she was obviously very touched by his mother. 

Amanda:
[00:20:00 - 00:20:00]
Yes. 

Kip:
[00:20:01 - 00:20:52]
Showing that emotion towards her and being like she was. And you could kind of see it in her face. She's like, oh, kind of like, what am I doing? You know, I. I shouldn't be embracing this because it's gonna burn me and everybody. She. You can kind of tell that she knows that this is gonna end bad, but it's like, how do you stop once? It's like. It's like a snowball going down a hill, building and building, and how do you stop it? And, like. And I felt bad because she was getting this. These feelings and these connections that she just hadn't had before. Her own mother. She's got a. Put it lightly, a strained relationship with, obviously, the father thing is what it is. And just, like, everything in her backstory up until now, like, there's been no real warm connections with other people. And so it was just like, she's being very embraced. And I did wonder who her bridesmaids were, though. 

Theresa:
[00:20:52 - 00:20:53]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:20:53 - 00:20:55]
Because we did see one like, who's that girl? 

Amanda:
[00:20:56 - 00:21:00]
But she probably just has, like, a whole fake life here now. Right. 

Kip:
[00:21:00 - 00:21:17]
Like, and I found myself wanting, kind of like, similar to Echo's flashback, I found myself wanting to know more. Like, how did she become Monica? Where did, like. And how did she meet Kevin? I was like, oh, I wish kind of there was more of this backstory. 

Amanda:
[00:21:17 - 00:21:20]
That we could learn throughout a couple of them with him, like we did with Sarah. 

Kip:
[00:21:20 - 00:21:21]
Yeah, exactly. 

Amanda:
[00:21:21 - 00:22:20]
Yeah. I feel the same way. Because, like, you gotta wonder too, right? Like. Because, yeah, I. I totally believe that he. She loved him. I totally believe she wanted it to work. I think that the Marshall got in her head, and I think, like, among other reasons, why she started to panic. But I think that, like, she probably got to a point where she was like, I could walk away and I'd lose him, or I can stay and hope for the best and might lose him. But either way, like, I think she kind of always knew in the back of her mind, this probably won't work out. But she, like you said, it kind of snowballs and ride the wave. And I think she would just kind of, like, I think it's the most hopeful we ever see, Kate, which I find to be, like, really sad because, like, it's very sweet. Right? Like, it. I. We know I don't like her. We know I don't like what she's done or Whatever. But I don't. I would love for her to be happy. Like, and I don't. And I think this is the closest she ever got. And, like, even that she couldn't keep. Right? 

Kip:
[00:22:20 - 00:22:40]
Yeah. And it's when. When he gave her the plane tickets, I think she just saw it all unravel in front of her eyes. Like, she cannot get a passport. Although I'm sure. Well, I'm sure it's hard to get a fake quality fake passport, I'm assuming. But, like, it's just. There's no way. Like, how can you make up an excuse to not go on this flight? 

Amanda:
[00:22:40 - 00:22:47]
And, like, you. Like, it's things that you didn't really like. I think the Marshall's conversation with her, which we can talk about how weird that was, because I know what Tracy said. 

Kip:
[00:22:47 - 00:22:48]
I'd like to. 

Amanda:
[00:22:48 - 00:23:39]
But I think Marshall's conversation with her coupled with yeah. Being, like, the Costa Rica tickets coupled with I might be pregnant, she was like, holy. Like, there's more to just, like, being in bed and making tacos with this guy. Like, he's gonna want to leave the country one day. He's gonna want to have a child one day maybe, like, he's gonna want to do all these things. And. And. And, like, I can't do any of that because of all this shit. And also on top of it, that's not who I am. And the Marshall knows that and is reminding me of how. I don't say one place and this and that. I think she's capable of it, but I do think, obviously she's had a very difficult life, and I do think it would have been hard for her to stay still for long in that life. Like, it's just, like, there's a reason why there's, like, recidivism and why there's all that kind of stuff. Right. Because it's like that, like, baseline for people, like, that is heightened. 

Kip:
[00:23:39 - 00:23:40]
What is recidivism? 

Amanda:
[00:23:40 - 00:23:49]
Like, when people, like, like, commit new crimes or, like, go back to, like. Like when you have, like, a heightened game when your baseline is elevated. 

Kip:
[00:23:49 - 00:23:50]
Yeah. Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:23:50 - 00:24:10]
Like, what everyone else's normal is, is, like, not normal for some people. Right. And it's hard for them to live in that, like, new normal. And so I think she would have struggled with that. But I do think she really loved him. I agree. I would have loved to see. See, like, some more background, because I think it's hilarious that not only did she fall in love with someone, but she fell in love with a cop. 

Kip:
[00:24:10 - 00:24:10]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:24:10 - 00:24:15]
Like, not A great. Like, if you're trying to Low, like, lay low. Kidding, you know? 

Theresa:
[00:24:15 - 00:24:20]
Well, because even when she's like, what are you doing? And he's like, oh, I'm just doing something about like a fugitive. 

Kip:
[00:24:20 - 00:24:22]
Yeah, filling up paperwork on a fugitive. 

Theresa:
[00:24:22 - 00:24:24]
And I was like, is it her? 

Kip:
[00:24:24 - 00:24:35]
No. But there's rumors online that it has to do with Sawyer. Because, like, remember he says, got that Tampa job finished or something. Oh, at some point, fun could be not connected. 

Amanda:
[00:24:35 - 00:24:41]
That's who got. Wouldn't it be so funny if Kate's husband is the one who landed Sawyer in jail? 

Kip:
[00:24:41 - 00:24:42]
That would be funny. 

Amanda:
[00:24:43 - 00:24:44]
That'd be funny. 

Kip:
[00:24:44 - 00:25:09]
But. And they really hammer home the Kate not being genuine, never mind the name. But like, at the wedding ceremony and the priest's saying things. Kevin, when you first brought her here, you said the first thing you love about her is how honest she is and how genuine. Cuz what you see is what you get. And all this stuff, it's like. 

Amanda:
[00:25:11 - 00:25:31]
Some therapy when he wakes up, like, and that sucks. Like. And even that, like, her trying to protect him in the end, like, that's so beautiful in a way. But it's also like, he's up. Like, there's no way any drug him at the end. Sure. But his life is not like, no, I protected you by drugging you at the end. And now, like, no one's gonna be worried about the fact that, like, you. 

Kip:
[00:25:31 - 00:25:36]
Knew all along so messed up. Well, can we first talk about taco night? 

Theresa:
[00:25:37 - 00:25:38]
Okay. 

Kip:
[00:25:38 - 00:25:43]
Her freak out about taco night, it was so funny to me. I don't do taco night. 

Amanda:
[00:25:43 - 00:25:47]
Well, I'm a little annoyed about that because you know what? He didn't ask for taco night. 

Kip:
[00:25:47 - 00:25:53]
Also, he was, like, critical of your tacos. Yeah, maybe that's what she meant. She's like, I can't make tacos. 

Amanda:
[00:25:53 - 00:26:01]
Like, and that's what I mean about. I do think the Marshall. Like, I do think a lot of it was like, the Costa Rica and the pregnancy and stuff. But I do think the Marshall did get in her head. 

Kip:
[00:26:01 - 00:26:09]
Absolutely. I agree with you though, Teresa. Like, why are you calling him? And I understand maybe it's because she's. He's the only person who really knows her. But it's weird. 

Theresa:
[00:26:09 - 00:26:13]
It is weird. You guys are not friends. He is hunting you. 

Amanda:
[00:26:13 - 00:26:30]
Well, I do think that's why a little bit more exposition on her. On her storyline here. Like, I think an extra episode about her and Kevin would have been nice and maybe like, a little bit more back and forth with her in the Marshall. Because clearly they have developed that, like, because he was obsessed with her, too. They were equally. 

Kip:
[00:26:30 - 00:26:31]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:26:31 - 00:26:37]
So it's kind of interesting to see almost like, oh, she was actually maybe a little bit equally obsessed with him. 

Kip:
[00:26:37 - 00:26:47]
Well, because he makes some comment, like, it's been a few. I haven't heard from you since the last holiday or something. So I was like, does she call him on holidays? Is that what he's implying? Flying like, it was very weird or. 

Amanda:
[00:26:47 - 00:26:51]
Like, and she clearly does it a lot and knows the drill because she has a little timer to make sure he can't track her. 

Theresa:
[00:26:51 - 00:26:52]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:26:52 - 00:26:53]
Like, yeah. 

Kip:
[00:26:53 - 00:26:59]
And it's like, also, it's his. He's obviously very obsessed with her, but it's also his job. 

Amanda:
[00:26:59 - 00:26:59]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:26:59 - 00:27:05]
He's not just gonna. Because you've fallen in love with someone, be like, well, I can't just not try to catch you now. 

Amanda:
[00:27:05 - 00:27:05]
Yeah. 

Theresa:
[00:27:05 - 00:27:06]
Yeah, exactly. 

Amanda:
[00:27:06 - 00:27:26]
Well, like, I was curious as, like, what she exactly was trying to go for there. Like, was she? Because, like, if she was really. This is why Kate is so hard to love. Because if she was really, really serious about, like, trying to legitimize her life, like, she could turn herself in. 

Kip:
[00:27:26 - 00:27:26]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:27:26 - 00:27:55]
Right. Like, at this point, would she go to jail for the rest of her life? Probably. But weirder stuff has happened in the U.S. like, they put people in front of juries and they. Whatever, quit all this stuff. She could try to make a deal with him. Like, it didn't even seem like she was offering him. What. I think that's what bothered me a little bit about is, like, she's not calling me. Like, hey, can you. I want to talk to you. I want to get a lawyer. I wanted to strike some sort of deal or something. Like, she just kind of wanted him to just, like, lose her number. 

Kip:
[00:27:55 - 00:27:57]
Yeah. Like, give him something. 

Amanda:
[00:27:57 - 00:28:06]
Like, I don't think he can just do that at that point. Right. Because, like, even if he stops hunting her, like, there's still gonna be warrants out for her arrest. 

Kip:
[00:28:06 - 00:28:14]
Other people will just, like, if he retires, the next cop takes up the job. It's not like it's. He's a freelancer. 

Amanda:
[00:28:14 - 00:28:14]
No. 

Kip:
[00:28:14 - 00:28:15]
Like, she's in the system. 

Amanda:
[00:28:15 - 00:28:17]
Like, she's in trouble. 

Kip:
[00:28:17 - 00:28:17]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:28:17 - 00:28:45]
Right. And she keeps just making it worse. And, like, if she really wanted to, you know, maybe Kevin being a cop would help. I don't know. Like, I don't know how this stuff works. And it's obviously TV land, so it could really work any way you wanted it to, but I just thought it was a little like, cat and mousey with her and him. And it's like, like you said, Teresa, like, why, why. Why even, like, you know how he is with you. Why do you think he would be helping you? Like, it's just. It was very weird. 

Theresa:
[00:28:45 - 00:28:49]
Yeah. I didn't get it, but. 

Kip:
[00:28:50 - 00:28:57]
And then she drugs him. Very weird. Yeah, that was an interesting choice. 

Theresa:
[00:28:57 - 00:29:00]
Yeah. She's like, I'm gonna tell you the truth, but also, I've drugged you. 

Kip:
[00:29:04 - 00:29:08]
What is she drugging him with? She just knows these chemical concoctions. 

Theresa:
[00:29:08 - 00:29:10]
Yeah. Like, it's super random. 

Amanda:
[00:29:11 - 00:29:19]
Yeah, I know. And like, I don't know, like, what do you guys feel about the fact that she kind of, like, came clean? Like, would it have been better if she just, like, went quietly into the night? Like, I don't know. Like. 

Kip:
[00:29:20 - 00:29:26]
No, I think it's good she told him. I think that is more than she would have done in previous flashbacks. 

Theresa:
[00:29:26 - 00:29:27]
Yeah, I agree. 

Kip:
[00:29:27 - 00:29:42]
But, like, I don't know, write him a letter. Run away and write a letter or something. Don't drug the guy. And, like, it just. It was so over the top, and it just didn't make any sense. 

Amanda:
[00:29:42 - 00:29:43]
Well, like, how does that. 

Kip:
[00:29:43 - 00:29:44]
How does that absolve him? 

Amanda:
[00:29:44 - 00:30:03]
Like, it doesn't. That's why. Because she's like, I had to drug you so people would know you weren't in on it. It's like, that does nothing. It means nothing. Like, yeah, like, he could still have been like. And I don't. And quite honestly, I don't think not being in on it is gonna be enough to save his job. Like, I think, like. Or even. Or like would. 

Kip:
[00:30:04 - 00:30:06]
Well, they'll certainly look at him differently now. 

Amanda:
[00:30:06 - 00:30:08]
Yeah. I think his life is forever changed. 

Kip:
[00:30:08 - 00:30:27]
I think she. She probably should have just left if, like, if she wasn't gonna stay and be like, I need your help. I'm. This is who I am, but I need your help, and I want to do the right thing now, but I love you and I understand. Blah, blah, blah. Then tell him the truth. But if you're just gonna ditch anyway. 

Amanda:
[00:30:27 - 00:30:31]
That's what I mean. Like, I. I don't think she should have. I think she should have just went quietly into the night. 

Kip:
[00:30:31 - 00:30:32]
Exactly. 

Amanda:
[00:30:32 - 00:30:54]
Because now he's going to have to live with the fact that, like, she left him and she lied the whole time and she lied about something that is, like, kind of his wheelhouse. And, like, now he's gonna have to tell all his friends and family and his co workers and all those people that this is what happened. And, like, yeah, I think it's still gonna affect his job. I think it's still gonna affect his, like, psyche. 

Kip:
[00:30:55 - 00:30:58]
Like, Yeah, I don't think he's in a better place because she drugged. 

Amanda:
[00:30:59 - 00:31:15]
I guess, in a way, maybe some people might suggest, like, oh, at least he knows, like, she loved him. And, like, that wasn't. Like, it wasn't him, it was her. And it's like, yeah, to a degree, that would be comforting. But I also think he's probably still going to be doing some deep self reflection on how he married a fugitive. 

Kip:
[00:31:16 - 00:31:18]
I feel sorry. Sorry for Kevin. 

Theresa:
[00:31:18 - 00:31:21]
Yeah, he. He got the rough end there. 

Amanda:
[00:31:21 - 00:31:25]
And if it helps, if she wasn't a real person, their marriage would have been null and void. 

Kip:
[00:31:26 - 00:31:26]
Oh, okay. 

Theresa:
[00:31:26 - 00:31:27]
Okay, good. 

Kip:
[00:31:27 - 00:31:27]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:31:27 - 00:31:30]
You can't marry someone who isn't real. 

Kip:
[00:31:30 - 00:31:30]
Real. 

Theresa:
[00:31:30 - 00:31:32]
Okay, good. Because I was like, how does this work for him? 

Kip:
[00:31:32 - 00:31:33]
Yeah, I was wondering that, too. 

Theresa:
[00:31:33 - 00:31:48]
The building is so messy. Like, she just made, like, a hot mess of it. Like, she should have just left. Or she should have left, like, divorced him or something. Quote, quote, divorced because. Yeah, like, it's just messy. 

Kip:
[00:31:48 - 00:31:52]
She must have had some form of fake id because you need ID to get married. 

Theresa:
[00:31:52 - 00:31:53]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:31:53 - 00:32:08]
Yeah. She probably has, like, a fake driver's license and stuff like that, I would imagine. I think probably she probably could even make a fake passport. But the concern, I think, would be more like, that would be harder. And. And if she were to be caught doing that. 

Kip:
[00:32:08 - 00:32:09]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:32:09 - 00:32:11]
She'd get into way more trouble way faster. Right? 

Theresa:
[00:32:11 - 00:32:22]
Yeah. And she was just screwed. Like, there was just. There was no winning in the situation. Like, she. She really should have just never been in this situation. 

Amanda:
[00:32:22 - 00:32:25]
Yeah, I know, but she's human and she falls in love. 

Kip:
[00:32:25 - 00:32:52]
Yeah. You feel bad for her because it's like she's looking for connection. It would be lonely. But then again, it's like, it's so you kind of need to. Yeah, it is. Like, you need to suffer or face the consequences for the choices she's made. She wasn't. She didn't do any of that. Like, innocently, she purposefully killed the man she, at the time, didn't know was her real father. But she killed someone. 

Theresa:
[00:32:52 - 00:32:52]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:32:52 - 00:33:05]
And then she accidentally or somehow was also responsible for a few other people's deaths. Right. So, like, I don't think we find out where she goes from this until she's in Australia. Right. Like, I don't think. 

Amanda:
[00:33:05 - 00:33:10]
I think Australia is. And that's why it's so funny to me, because it's like. Because she can travel to Australia. 

Kip:
[00:33:10 - 00:33:11]
Oh, yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:33:11 - 00:33:13]
So I think the issue more is probably getting back in. 

Kip:
[00:33:13 - 00:33:14]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:33:14 - 00:33:17]
And going with him and like, stuff like that. Because, like, how did she go to Australia? 

Theresa:
[00:33:17 - 00:33:18]
Oh, you're right. 

Kip:
[00:33:18 - 00:33:22]
Yeah. Yep. Very good. 

Amanda:
[00:33:22 - 00:33:23]
Australia. 

Kip:
[00:33:23 - 00:33:24]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:33:24 - 00:34:05]
So I think she's just selfish. I think it was more just this idea of, like, I'm gonna have to. Every time I want to do something like this, or if I have a baby, that baby's gonna think I'm Monica from wherever, doing whatever, and that's not who I am. Like, it is. Like, I don't envy her life, obviously. Right. Like, she's really made a mess of it. And I. And that's why I always go back to, like, I like Kate a lot more this time around. I like a lot of stuff she does. I have a lot more sympathy for her, but at the end of the day, like, she shouldn't have done what she was going to do. And if she truly thought, like, I'm not saying that you should ever do violence or anything like that, but if you really, truly believe that what you were doing is right, go tell a jury of your peers that. 

Kip:
[00:34:05 - 00:34:06]
Exactly right. 

Amanda:
[00:34:06 - 00:34:08]
Go take responsibility for it. 

Kip:
[00:34:08 - 00:34:09]
Take responsibility. 

Amanda:
[00:34:09 - 00:34:25]
Right. And say, like, I had to do this to protect my mom. If that's true. There's laws and stuff down there. I think people seem to get away with a lot of, like, that down there. Right. Like, if you truly thought you were in danger, your mom was in danger, like, then. Right. 

Kip:
[00:34:25 - 00:34:27]
Not cooperating, though. 

Theresa:
[00:34:27 - 00:34:34]
I was gonna say, I think that's part of the problem. Like, I'm sure she probably could have, but with her mom being like, what did you do? 

Kip:
[00:34:34 - 00:34:35]
You killed the man I love. 

Theresa:
[00:34:35 - 00:34:41]
How dare you? I think that kind of put a wrench in. In that plan a little bit, if that was the plan. 

Kip:
[00:34:41 - 00:34:56]
I think, though, like, there are probably ways they could have gotten around it. Like, there's all kinds of lawyers and. And experts in abusive relationships that could probably help Kate figure out how. 

Theresa:
[00:34:56 - 00:34:56]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:34:56 - 00:34:58]
To make this work for her in her. 

Amanda:
[00:34:58 - 00:35:05]
Or you know what? And, like, it might not be that, like, she got out off scot free, but, like, maybe she went to jail for five years or. 

Kip:
[00:35:05 - 00:35:05]
Exactly. 

Amanda:
[00:35:05 - 00:35:06]
However many years. 

Theresa:
[00:35:06 - 00:35:08]
Got let out for good behavior. 

Amanda:
[00:35:08 - 00:35:18]
Got let out and then, like, was like, well, you know what? That sucked. But I did what I had to do. Like, you know, like, echo. We just got echo last year. You know what? I'm not sorry. 

Kip:
[00:35:18 - 00:35:18]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:35:18 - 00:35:34]
Right. Because I did what I had to do to survive. Kate. Kate won't just say that ever. Like, she just is kind of like, woe is me. Right. And she still kind of is like that towards the end. Yeah. That's how I feel, as we all know. 

Kip:
[00:35:34 - 00:35:51]
Let's switch over to Echo quick. That's a good segue because we see echoes. Little memorial. The B plot was weird in this one, too. Like, the B plots feel very, like, forced, sandwiched in. 

Theresa:
[00:35:51 - 00:35:52]
Yeah, forced. 

Kip:
[00:35:52 - 00:36:04]
Like, quick, we gotta do this. I did like, seeing kind of like, analytical, skeptical Saeed back. Like, season two, especially after Shannon dies, is such, like, emotional side. 

Theresa:
[00:36:04 - 00:36:04]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:36:04 - 00:36:09]
It's nice to see him back, being like, I don't think you're telling the truth, and I'm gonna question you about it. 

Theresa:
[00:36:09 - 00:36:10]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:36:10 - 00:36:15]
And then Locke sort of getting his groove back, looking for signs, and. 

Amanda:
[00:36:15 - 00:36:24]
Yeah, I liked lock in this episode. I thought that was like, do you. Isn't it. Do you guys find it a little strange when they're like, we should take him back and do it? And then he's like, well, no, they've had enough funerals. 

Kip:
[00:36:24 - 00:36:25]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:36:25 - 00:36:30]
That was just kind of, like, out here, like, is that really a decision you should make for everyone else? I don't know. That felt a little bit weird to me. 

Theresa:
[00:36:30 - 00:36:41]
I thought it was weird because I did. Because, like, I said, like, what. When. When you go back and they're like, where's Echo? You're gonna be like, oh, well, he got eaten by a bear. Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:36:41 - 00:36:42]
Like, they're not. You know what I mean? 

Theresa:
[00:36:42 - 00:36:43]
Like, what are you supposed to say? 

Kip:
[00:36:43 - 00:36:45]
Like, exactly. 

Amanda:
[00:36:45 - 00:36:46]
Like, it's just weird. 

Kip:
[00:36:47 - 00:36:50]
That was an odd choice by John Locke. Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:36:50 - 00:36:53]
I wonder why. Like, that was because they probably just. 

Kip:
[00:36:53 - 00:37:01]
Didn'T want to film another funeral. We have to give something to Echo. So they're probably like, oh, I don't want to film another funeral scene. 

Amanda:
[00:37:01 - 00:37:24]
But, like, that. Like, I. I thought it was very, like, old John Locke, too, because, like, even the whole, like, I'm gonna go back and get this stuff, and it's like, well, where are you going? I don't trust you kind of thing. We're not going where you said you were. And he's like, well, we're gonna make a detour first. And, like, even again, like, it's kind of like a misdirector, because it's like, oh, he's gonna go do something weird. And then when he comes back with the prayer stick, you're like, oh, that's really. 

Theresa:
[00:37:24 - 00:37:25]
That was really sweet. 

Kip:
[00:37:25 - 00:37:30]
Yeah, that was nice. Yeah. Look north. Whatever it said, avert your eyes. 

Theresa:
[00:37:30 - 00:37:32]
Lift your eyes and look north. Or Something. 

Kip:
[00:37:32 - 00:37:35]
And I know that that plays into the next episode, but. 

Amanda:
[00:37:35 - 00:37:36]
Oh, good. 

Kip:
[00:37:37 - 00:37:41]
But, yeah, that was sort of it. Like, Nikki and Paul were in it, but they didn't say anything. Desmond didn't say anything. 

Theresa:
[00:37:41 - 00:37:42]
No. 

Kip:
[00:37:42 - 00:37:45]
Like, it was very, very quick. 

Theresa:
[00:37:45 - 00:37:48]
Yeah. It felt like just kind of inserted. 

Kip:
[00:37:48 - 00:37:49]
Yeah. 

Theresa:
[00:37:49 - 00:37:50]
To, like, wrap it up. 

Kip:
[00:37:51 - 00:37:55]
And then there's everything else. We got lots still to talk about. 

Theresa:
[00:37:55 - 00:37:56]
Oh, yeah, A lot. 

Kip:
[00:37:57 - 00:38:04]
Like, so the cages and Jack and Sawyer and Kate and Danny and Ben and Juliet. Oh, boy. 

Theresa:
[00:38:05 - 00:38:09]
Yeah, we've bear that. Like, we've barely scratched kind of getting into that, though. 

Amanda:
[00:38:09 - 00:38:37]
Like, so we always kind of ask the question, or I always ask the question is, like, why are we learning what we're learning about the character now? Because there is usually a reason. And do you guys think it's just to show us that, like, Kate is capable of love, but she also, like, even, like, she's just so damaged by, like, not even be able to. Like, the last time she kind of said I love you to someone, she had to hurt them. Like, are we supposed to be kind of learning that piece of her this time, do you think? As it leans into the whole Sawyer, Jack love thing? 

Kip:
[00:38:37 - 00:39:00]
I don't know. I don't know if I believe anymore that there's something directly correlating with each flashback in On Island. I'm wondering if they are really just sort of throwing in backstory for the sake of backstory. I mean, I guess you could say there's a connection between, like, yeah, she was in love, and she's. There's the whole love talk with Sawyer. 

Amanda:
[00:39:00 - 00:39:04]
And how, like, she can't say it right. Because. Yeah, like, she won't. 

Kip:
[00:39:04 - 00:39:05]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:39:05 - 00:39:07]
She didn't say, tell him that she loves him. 

Kip:
[00:39:07 - 00:39:24]
And then there's that thing. Was it Ben says? If I were betting, man, I would have pegged you and Jack together, like, so. Very thruffle. Was it? What do they call this love triangle? Love triangle. 

Theresa:
[00:39:24 - 00:39:25]
I like thruffle. 

Kip:
[00:39:25 - 00:39:26]
Certainly not a thruffle. 

Amanda:
[00:39:26 - 00:39:29]
I would have really preferred if it was a thruffle. If I'm being entirely honest with you. 

Theresa:
[00:39:29 - 00:39:31]
I'm down for a throttle. 

Kip:
[00:39:31 - 00:39:52]
But, yeah, I guess you're right. That probably is the connection if we're gonna have one, because it is all about Kate being in love and the consequences of. Of how that affects her life on island and in the history of her life. But it's. It's. Yeah, they. Yeah, they certainly show some love. 

Amanda:
[00:39:52 - 00:39:53]
Ew. 

Theresa:
[00:39:53 - 00:39:54]
They make love. 

Kip:
[00:39:56 - 00:39:57]
I mean, it was a weird. 

Theresa:
[00:39:58 - 00:39:59]
They get it on love. 

Amanda:
[00:39:59 - 00:40:00]
They gonna bone. 

Kip:
[00:40:00 - 00:40:01]
They did bone. 

Theresa:
[00:40:01 - 00:40:02]
They did bone. 

Kip:
[00:40:03 - 00:40:07]
And Ben watches, or we assume he's watching. 

Theresa:
[00:40:07 - 00:40:11]
I assume he watches because he made Jack go in there. 

Kip:
[00:40:11 - 00:40:14]
Yeah. Like, that was obviously planned. 

Theresa:
[00:40:14 - 00:40:15]
Yeah. He was like 100. 

Amanda:
[00:40:15 - 00:40:26]
And I think the Alex piece of it is, like, supposed to be like, oh, maybe Alex just broken. Try to break him out. But. But no, it's like, so clearly planned so that they could see that. 

Kip:
[00:40:26 - 00:40:59]
My question then is I felt that when they first brought Kaden to talk to Jack to convince him, I felt that Ben thought it didn't work and that because he's. The way he says, get her out of there, it was almost like he's like, fuck. It didn't work the way I thought it would. And then when he saw Sawyer and Kate in the cage, I think that was, like, him acting really quickly to be like, oh, okay, I can now manipulate Jack this way. 

Amanda:
[00:40:59 - 00:41:01]
I believe that is what happened. 

Kip:
[00:41:01 - 00:41:01]
Yeah. 

Theresa:
[00:41:01 - 00:41:01]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:41:02 - 00:41:03]
Okay. You agree with that? 

Amanda:
[00:41:03 - 00:41:04]
I don't think it did work the first time. 

Kip:
[00:41:04 - 00:41:05]
Yeah. Okay. 

Amanda:
[00:41:06 - 00:41:21]
Because let's. Let's backtrack a little bit to the beginning where they kind of talk to Jack about it. And Jack is like, yeah. Oh, I'm not. I'm not agreeing to do it. I just, like, want you to know what you're gonna die from or something. And I was like, cold. 

Kip:
[00:41:21 - 00:41:21]
But I love. 

Amanda:
[00:41:21 - 00:41:25]
I wish I could remember the exact line because it was. It was brutal. 

Kip:
[00:41:25 - 00:41:26]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:41:26 - 00:41:29]
Yeah. In, like, the best possible possible way. It was brutal, though. 

Kip:
[00:41:29 - 00:41:46]
Yeah. And I loved when he said. Ben said, oh, I'm disappointed. And he said, well, you won't have to be disappointed for very long. And I was like, wow, cold. It was so good. Like, you. 

Theresa:
[00:41:46 - 00:41:49]
They had this, like, little smirk on his. Dang. 

Amanda:
[00:41:51 - 00:41:56]
So, yeah, it was. It was wild, like, because you don't see that side of Jack often. 

Kip:
[00:41:56 - 00:41:56]
No. 

Amanda:
[00:41:56 - 00:41:58]
But it was very lovely. 

Kip:
[00:41:58 - 00:42:05]
There's people online who are like, guess you forgot his Hippocratic oath. I'm like, do you not understand what this man has done to him? 

Theresa:
[00:42:05 - 00:42:09]
Yeah. Also, he's still trapped in an aquarium. He's not allowed to leave. 

Kip:
[00:42:09 - 00:42:10]
Exactly. 

Amanda:
[00:42:11 - 00:42:18]
I. I don't. Yeah. I wonder. I'm pretty sure he's a doctor. He has to save his life. It's like, I think rules have gone out in the window. 

Kip:
[00:42:18 - 00:42:19]
Exactly. 

Theresa:
[00:42:19 - 00:42:20]
Yeah. I think there can be a little. 

Amanda:
[00:42:20 - 00:42:35]
Asterisk added, isn't it, that they do no harm. Like, I don't know. Like, I don't know. We need a doctor in here to tell us the reality of this. Do you have to treat every single patient you Come across. I can't imagine they are required to do that, are they? 

Kip:
[00:42:35 - 00:42:36]
I would think so. 

Amanda:
[00:42:36 - 00:42:40]
Well then why are all those women dying of abortions in the United States right now? 

Kip:
[00:42:40 - 00:42:41]
The U.S. yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:42:41 - 00:43:00]
Like, then I have a lot of questions for doctors in the. I have a lot of questions for a lot of people in the US Right now. No offense to our American listener nerds, but I. They. There must be like, yeah, maybe not street every person, but So I. I think that if he was like, saw Ben dying on the street. 

Kip:
[00:43:00 - 00:43:08]
Yeah. Because it was the same as like when those people from Spain came in and Christian was like, we're not doing the surgery. Sorry. 

Amanda:
[00:43:08 - 00:43:10]
Yeah. So I don't think they have to do. 

Kip:
[00:43:10 - 00:43:11]
Exactly. 

Amanda:
[00:43:11 - 00:43:20]
But like, I mean, his bedside manner on like. Like wishing someone dead might. I don't know if that interferes with it. 

Kip:
[00:43:20 - 00:43:22]
That was so cold. I loved it. 

Amanda:
[00:43:22 - 00:43:25]
But Ben's hair is getting taller. 

Kip:
[00:43:25 - 00:43:25]
Did you notice that? 

Theresa:
[00:43:26 - 00:43:26]
Yep. 

Kip:
[00:43:26 - 00:43:28]
What was with that? 

Amanda:
[00:43:28 - 00:43:35]
But yeah, so he's clearly very. He doesn't trust them. He's not going to do anything. He doesn't believe it's going to help and he doesn't want to help them. 

Kip:
[00:43:36 - 00:43:55]
Well, and like, can you blame. Like, I know we can't blame him, but like, you just had Juliet come in last yesterday, I guess technically or whatever. And play this whole video being like, actually, I want you to kill him. And now she's here and I know she's like playing a game. Like, he's just like, the is up with these people. 

Amanda:
[00:43:55 - 00:44:08]
I like that he gave her like a little bit of a warning too. Like, you don't even. Like when he. When she was talking, he's like, no, like, to her, like, I thought I read that to be a little bit of a. Like, you. You've better not start with me because I'm going to. 

Kip:
[00:44:08 - 00:44:08]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:44:08 - 00:44:11]
Like, you don't want to be talking to me right now. 

Kip:
[00:44:11 - 00:44:11]
Exactly. 

Amanda:
[00:44:11 - 00:44:27]
Like. And he hasn't ratted her out because. And I wonder if it's. I don't think it's because he's protecting her. I think it's because he doesn't know what's exactly true. Like, he's got. He's so turned around right now that if I was Ben, I wouldn't want that man operating on me. Like, we with him too much. 

Kip:
[00:44:27 - 00:44:33]
Yeah. Like, Ben's putting a lot of faith in his thought that Jack will not. 

Amanda:
[00:44:33 - 00:44:42]
Do harm and that like, at this point he's even capable. Like, you want a man who you have locked in a room not Fed properly. Sleeping on a tabletop. 

Kip:
[00:44:42 - 00:44:43]
Yeah. 

Theresa:
[00:44:43 - 00:44:45]
And working out with change. 

Amanda:
[00:44:45 - 00:45:04]
Has been on an island for 70 days. Who hates you, who you've spent however long playing manipulative mind games on. You think this man is the best man to be operating. You should have had him in, like, a golden tower, being fed grape leaves. Like, they're so messed up there. I don't know. Like. You know what I mean? 

Kip:
[00:45:04 - 00:45:06]
That would have been amazing. 

Theresa:
[00:45:07 - 00:45:10]
Juliet just dipping grapes into a sandwich. 

Amanda:
[00:45:10 - 00:45:20]
Massages on his hands. Why didn't he go reading up on some recent surgery skills? I don't know. Like, it's just. It's not. 

Kip:
[00:45:20 - 00:45:27]
It's so messed up that this is how Ben thought he could get the operation. Like, that guy. So messed up. 

Theresa:
[00:45:27 - 00:45:28]
Yeah. Oh, yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:45:28 - 00:45:45]
And, like, I like how they're like, oh, it's moved up a couple. Like, what else did they have in mind for this? Like, how did they think they were going to get him to this? But bringing in Kate. And I love how you tripped up on your stream of consciousness, but I totally know what you meant. You meant they're using. Sorry. To use Kate to use Jack. 

Theresa:
[00:45:45 - 00:45:46]
Yeah, there it is. 

Amanda:
[00:45:46 - 00:46:01]
Yeah, I couldn't get it. No, no, you said it. I totally understood what you were saying, because that's exactly what happened. Right. It's like all these, like, insane layers of manipulation. Like, we're going to tell Kate we're going to kill Sawyer so that Kate will convince Jack to do. Blah. 

Kip:
[00:46:01 - 00:46:03]
Yeah. But so crazy. 

Amanda:
[00:46:03 - 00:46:22]
I do have one question. I. I am getting a little confused. I think between the episodes of, like, what. I think there's almost too much going on because I couldn't remember. Is. Is Sawyer so defeated because he just learned that they're on an island? On an island? Or was there something else? Or was there more between when he learned that and now? 

Kip:
[00:46:23 - 00:46:24]
I think that's it. 

Theresa:
[00:46:24 - 00:46:25]
Okay. 

Kip:
[00:46:25 - 00:46:31]
Because that was a couple episodes ago, but in timeline wise, it's not that long ago. 

Amanda:
[00:46:31 - 00:47:00]
I couldn't remember if they had interactions on camera, like, on screen between then and this, because. I agree. Because at one point in your stream, Teresa, you said, he's so defeated. And I remember also being like, he seems really defeated today. And I couldn't remember if it was just this. Not just. That's a huge reason to be upset, but if there was more or if he had had interactions with Kate. And it kind of did feel like this was coming out of. Of left field or, like, do we understand why Sawyer is so. 

Kip:
[00:47:00 - 00:47:18]
Yeah, that's a good question. Because I don't know if just learning that they're on another island off the main island would defeat him that much, because he's just like, he was about to accept being killed. 

Amanda:
[00:47:18 - 00:47:22]
Yeah, that. And I know it was to protect her, but it was. It just didn't seem like him. 

Kip:
[00:47:23 - 00:47:31]
No, it was like it. He felt like there should have been more. And Danny really did want to kill him. 

Amanda:
[00:47:31 - 00:47:33]
Holy. That was scary. 

Theresa:
[00:47:33 - 00:47:36]
Oh, he. Well, he's grieving. 

Kip:
[00:47:36 - 00:47:39]
Yeah. But it's like. But he's Colleen. Like, no one cares about Colleen. 

Theresa:
[00:47:39 - 00:47:41]
No. Also Danny do. 

Amanda:
[00:47:41 - 00:47:42]
To colleague. 

Kip:
[00:47:42 - 00:47:42]
Exactly. 

Theresa:
[00:47:42 - 00:47:46]
Danny's been aggro the whole time, even before Colleen. 

Amanda:
[00:47:46 - 00:47:47]
I hate Danny. 

Kip:
[00:47:47 - 00:47:48]
I know. 

Amanda:
[00:47:48 - 00:47:49]
I love Alex, though. 

Kip:
[00:47:49 - 00:47:50]
Blockhead. 

Amanda:
[00:47:50 - 00:47:51]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:47:51 - 00:47:56]
Alex is the best. She comes in with her slingshot. Yeah, she's the best. 

Theresa:
[00:47:56 - 00:47:57]
She's like, get up. 

Amanda:
[00:47:57 - 00:47:57]
Get up. 

Kip:
[00:47:57 - 00:48:00]
Did. Is this where we learn? No, that's his. 

Amanda:
[00:48:00 - 00:48:03]
No. No. 

Kip:
[00:48:03 - 00:48:05]
Because he does say something, and she. 

Amanda:
[00:48:05 - 00:48:07]
Does, too, but not in a. Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:48:07 - 00:48:08]
You don't know what the. 

Amanda:
[00:48:08 - 00:48:09]
Yeah. 

Theresa:
[00:48:11 - 00:48:12]
You got it. 

Amanda:
[00:48:13 - 00:48:15]
Teresa, you're so funny. 

Kip:
[00:48:15 - 00:48:17]
But we don't want to tell you. 

Amanda:
[00:48:17 - 00:48:21]
Because when I wash it with you the next time, and you're like, oh, my God, I'm going to be so excited. 

Kip:
[00:48:21 - 00:48:25]
Yeah. It's good to have you kind of coming in clean as much as. 

Theresa:
[00:48:25 - 00:48:27]
I mean, it does help for the pod. 

Kip:
[00:48:27 - 00:48:28]
Yeah. 

Theresa:
[00:48:28 - 00:48:32]
But it doesn't help me. So in any way. 

Amanda:
[00:48:32 - 00:48:40]
So, going back, though, to keep what you were saying, I do truly believe that when they sent Kate in, like. And Tracy, you talked about this in your stream. She. About how happy he was to see her. 

Kip:
[00:48:40 - 00:48:41]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:48:41 - 00:48:47]
And he was so mad at her for trying to convince him to do it. 

Theresa:
[00:48:47 - 00:48:48]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:48:48 - 00:48:51]
And he clearly was not convinced by that. 

Kip:
[00:48:51 - 00:48:53]
No, he was pissed off. 

Theresa:
[00:48:53 - 00:48:53]
No. 

Kip:
[00:48:53 - 00:49:02]
And I think, like, he was pissed off at Kate, but more at them for using her and, like, getting to her. Because he's basically like, you believe them? Like, are you stupid? 

Theresa:
[00:49:02 - 00:49:02]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:49:02 - 00:49:05]
I think he was mad at her for falling for what they were saying. 

Theresa:
[00:49:05 - 00:49:06]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:49:06 - 00:49:37]
Well, and I wonder, too, because, like, so then the question, I guess kind of becomes is, like, after he sees them together, like, why was that the impact. Impetus to do what he did? And. Because I. I do agree with you, Kip. I don't think that was his plan from day one. I think his. His first instinct was to just be like you. All of you. I'm just gonna see here what happens. I don't care. I don't trust any of you. But then he sees them together after she's essentially come and begged for Sawyer's life and that changes his mind. So why do you two think that was? 

Kip:
[00:49:38 - 00:50:23]
I think he. I think he feels like maybe he now has an opportunity to at least save them. I think he's going to go protector mode Jack, and say, okay, he obviously has a plan in his mind. He comes to it where he can pause the surgery and basically use Ben to get them. And I think he kind of figures out I can do this now. And I think he was really hurt by seeing them because obviously he's. Him and Kate have had a bit of a thing too, but it was like maybe twofold. He can save them, but also like, maybe I just want them out of here, cuz it's really hard for him. 

Theresa:
[00:50:24 - 00:50:38]
Yeah, that's kind of what I got too, is he was hurt by it and he just doesn't want to deal with that anymore. And so if he can get off the island and he. If he can get them off and he can save them, then he's just done. 

Kip:
[00:50:38 - 00:50:39]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:50:39 - 00:50:40]
Sorry. 

Kip:
[00:50:40 - 00:50:57]
Oh, no, I was gonna say, like, I don't. I don't know when he says to Ben, you got to get me off this island. Like, if he was lying in that sense, because, okay, his plan was to get let Sawyer and Kate go fair, but like, you couldn't say that to then, obviously. 

Amanda:
[00:50:57 - 00:51:51]
I think I agree with all of this, but I think it's even a little bit more from my perspective. Whereas I think he kind of went white knight Jack a little bit, and he was kind of like, well, she's with him and I have no reason to really care. Like, I'm here and she loves him now, clearly. And so I lost her and I'm stuck here and I can't do anything for myself, but I might as well, like just give up on me, But I can manipulate the situation to get them out. Like, it was very like. Like that kind of white nighty Jack thing. Like you said protector, but also I think a little bit more of it. Like he was being like a little bit self flagellating as well. And like, kind of like, oh, well, there's nothing more for me. So I'm like, who cares what happens to me? But I can at least save dumb, you know, because like, what's his great plan here? He doesn't have one. 

Kip:
[00:51:51 - 00:51:52]
No. 

Amanda:
[00:51:52 - 00:52:03]
Right. Like he's wants them to get away and he's gonna be stuck there cleaning up the pieces. Right. And I think that was. The switch was. Well, what do I have to. What do I have to care for right now? 

Kip:
[00:52:03 - 00:52:04]
Yeah, exactly. 

Amanda:
[00:52:04 - 00:52:09]
Right which is. I, I. That must have, like, with everything else going on, like, that must have hurt. 

Theresa:
[00:52:09 - 00:52:10]
Oh, yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:52:10 - 00:52:15]
Totally great for the audience. Jack or Cadence, where are cute. 

Theresa:
[00:52:15 - 00:52:17]
Like, they're very cute. 

Kip:
[00:52:17 - 00:52:18]
They've got chemistry. 

Amanda:
[00:52:18 - 00:52:43]
They've got chemistry. And like, when she's crawling, like you said, when she's climbing out of that cage yelling at him, oh, my God, so adorable. Peak Kate. Like, she's great. And I know Evangeline, Lillian, like, some of the other people have said, like, the love triangle piece sucks. And, like, I do think she's more than that, but I also think she brings a lot. Like, people love that stuff. Like, there's a lot of heart to what she plays with Sawyer. Right. 

Kip:
[00:52:43 - 00:52:52]
Like, yeah. And, like, when Sawyer was about to be shot, like, that was a very emotional scene too, between them. Like, she's just begging him to get up and doesn't understand why. 

Amanda:
[00:52:52 - 00:52:53]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:52:53 - 00:53:00]
Even after he's told her about them being on island. Oh, I thought it was hilarious when. So I didn't know who Ben was. 

Theresa:
[00:53:00 - 00:53:03]
Oh, yeah, who's that? Henry. 

Amanda:
[00:53:03 - 00:53:09]
Yeah, Henry, the guy who brought us there. He realized how little information some people have. 

Kip:
[00:53:09 - 00:53:13]
You're just like one in one ear out the other with him. It's so funny. 

Amanda:
[00:53:13 - 00:53:21]
Yeah. Those scenes are really like, Evangeline, Lily did a great job. Like, yeah, those scenes are like, my heart was like, breaking. 

Theresa:
[00:53:21 - 00:53:21]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:53:21 - 00:53:23]
Like, and I know he doesn't get shot there. 

Kip:
[00:53:23 - 00:53:24]
I know. 

Amanda:
[00:53:24 - 00:53:28]
And I'm like, don't shoot him. It's like, Amanda, you know he doesn't get shot here. 

Kip:
[00:53:28 - 00:53:54]
Yeah. I mean, this is sort of like a. An episode where everything changes after this episode. Like, everything for all the characters. It's. And it not coincidentally was a mid season finale. Like, there was around this time probably November, December, and then there wasn't nothing for a few months. Like, they used to do that all the time, which was. I don't know if they still do. 

Amanda:
[00:53:54 - 00:53:55]
But, yeah, the network ones, they do. 

Kip:
[00:53:55 - 00:54:16]
Yeah. But it's so. It's like it was a huge cliffhanger. And. Yeah. Like, everything's different after this. Like, and I was reading a bit about it today, and, like, the producers are saying they saw this episode as really wrapping everything up from season two. Because, like, it all does change after this. Like, it. And it really goes into, like, hyperdrive mode. 

Amanda:
[00:54:16 - 00:54:18]
Well, and. And Ben himself kind of said that. Right. 

Kip:
[00:54:18 - 00:54:20]
He's like, see on the other side? 

Amanda:
[00:54:20 - 00:54:23]
And it's gonna. He said, no matter what happens, everything's gonna be different. 

Kip:
[00:54:23 - 00:54:25]
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you're right. 

Amanda:
[00:54:25 - 00:54:38]
It's true. Right. And it does. Like, at the end of the day, like, you know, it's hard because. Did Kate sleep with him because she thought he was gonna get killed that night? Does she really love him? I think she does. I think that she really cares. I think she loves them both. 

Kip:
[00:54:38 - 00:54:39]
I think so, too. 

Amanda:
[00:54:39 - 00:54:49]
Like, I do, like, truly believe it's like, a. A traditional love triangle. I think Kate is in love with both of them for different reasons, and I think they both really love her. 

Kip:
[00:54:49 - 00:54:50]
Yeah, I agree. 

Amanda:
[00:54:50 - 00:54:57]
I think it's all quite pure. I think it's just hard because they're in a situation that most human beings will never find themselves in. 

Kip:
[00:54:57 - 00:54:58]
Exactly. 

Amanda:
[00:54:58 - 00:55:20]
Right. But I think the Kate and Sawyer stuff is really, like, compelling. And I don't. Like, a lot of people are like, oh, it's just, like, fan service or, like, just to get ratings or just to cause drama. It's like, I actually think it doesn't do a disservice to the storyline. It, like, it is dramatic, and it is. Whatever. And if they drag it on. The, like, love triangle part. 

Kip:
[00:55:21 - 00:55:21]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:55:21 - 00:55:44]
Like, I think if they dragged it on too much, it would be. But I actually do think it, like, serves a purpose. Like, I think it shows us, like, a depth to all of them. Right. And it does kind of drive Jack to do something pretty crazy that is going to have consequences. Right. And that, like, scene in the operating room was like, oh, my heart was literally beeping along with. 

Kip:
[00:55:44 - 00:55:44]
I know. 

Theresa:
[00:55:45 - 00:55:45]
That was intense. 

Amanda:
[00:55:46 - 00:55:52]
Like, whatever. Yeah. I was like, oh, my God, my heart is also dying. He. Damn it. 

Theresa:
[00:55:52 - 00:55:53]
Oh, there it is. 

Kip:
[00:55:54 - 00:55:55]
So good. 

Theresa:
[00:55:55 - 00:55:57]
That was. That was supposed to be my sound for trivia. 

Amanda:
[00:55:57 - 00:55:58]
We know. 

Kip:
[00:55:58 - 00:55:58]
I know. 

Amanda:
[00:55:58 - 00:55:59]
It was. We know. 

Theresa:
[00:55:59 - 00:56:00]
Okay. 

Amanda:
[00:56:01 - 00:56:05]
It's uncanny. Really. Uncanny. 

Kip:
[00:56:05 - 00:56:06]
Yeah. 

Theresa:
[00:56:06 - 00:56:07]
Shut up. You're so mean. 

Kip:
[00:56:08 - 00:56:09]
Okay, there's one thing we got to talk about. 

Theresa:
[00:56:09 - 00:56:10]
Okay. 

Kip:
[00:56:10 - 00:56:14]
You said you had lots to say about it, so this is. This could. 

Theresa:
[00:56:15 - 00:56:19]
It could be just spoiler territory, but warning spoilers. 

Kip:
[00:56:19 - 00:56:27]
We're talking about this throwaway line that was. He wasn't even on Jacob's list. 

Amanda:
[00:56:27 - 00:56:29]
Yeah. Shepard wasn't even on Jacob's list. 

Kip:
[00:56:29 - 00:56:29]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:56:29 - 00:56:31]
Like, specifically says Shepherd. 

Kip:
[00:56:31 - 00:56:31]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:56:31 - 00:56:32]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:56:32 - 00:56:35]
And said by random Danny Blockhead. 

Amanda:
[00:56:35 - 00:56:41]
No, it's. It's. Oh, is it? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Kip:
[00:56:41 - 00:56:44]
Like, just essentially a goon. Like a gun. 

Theresa:
[00:56:44 - 00:56:45]
Gun. Goon. 

Kip:
[00:56:45 - 00:56:45]
Gun. Goon. 

Amanda:
[00:56:45 - 00:56:45]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[00:56:45 - 00:56:52]
Henchman. I guess he's, like, a bit more than that, but, like, he's a blockhead. He's a. Yeah, he's a blockhead. 

Amanda:
[00:56:52 - 00:56:56]
Oh, my God. And, like, hey. But Isn't Shepard on the list? 

Kip:
[00:56:56 - 00:56:57]
Yeah, he is. 

Theresa:
[00:56:57 - 00:56:58]
Yes. 

Kip:
[00:56:58 - 00:57:35]
So there's a few things, like, it could be. We know. So this will get into spoilers 100. So we know that the list comes from Jacob, who gets. Who gives it to Richard, who we haven't met yet, who then gives it to Ben, who then disseminates it. So it goes through many layers. So it could very well be that just by the time Danny's heard of this list, he could be getting it wrong. Someone could have changed it. There could be many different reasons why he doesn't think Shepard's on the list. 

Amanda:
[00:57:35 - 00:57:37]
And I think it's probably Ben. 

Kip:
[00:57:37 - 00:57:38]
Yeah, right. 

Amanda:
[00:57:38 - 00:57:41]
Like, Ben manipulates that list like there's no tomorrow. Right. 

Kip:
[00:57:41 - 00:57:41]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:57:42 - 00:57:47]
So. And the list. But, like, I was shocked. 

Kip:
[00:57:47 - 00:57:47]
I know. 

Amanda:
[00:57:47 - 00:58:01]
Like, I know. We all know what the list is. We all know who Jacob is. We all know who. What all of this means, but I did not think we learned about it for the first time in a throwaway line by a character whose name I forget every other minute. 

Kip:
[00:58:01 - 00:58:06]
Yeah. Well, and then there is also theories that they didn't know quite what they were doing with the idea of the. 

Amanda:
[00:58:06 - 00:58:07]
They didn't. 

Kip:
[00:58:07 - 00:58:28]
And so in this timeline, when they were writing this episode, he might not have been on the list. Like, there might have been a different. Different route they were going to take, like, the creators. I mean, and so, like, it could be that this was just something that was going to go in a very different direction and then it didn't, obviously, because he does end up on very much on the list. 

Amanda:
[00:58:28 - 00:58:29]
Yes. 

Kip:
[00:58:29 - 00:58:39]
But, yeah, you're right. Like, so early. Just this throwaway line mentioning one of the most integral, important characters. Yeah. Plot points of the entire series. 

Amanda:
[00:58:40 - 00:59:13]
Something that ties into, like, almost every other major mystery that people are concerned about was just exposed in one line by Blockhead and just so beautifully, like, left you being like. And I'm sure, like, I can't even remember because I. I truly do not have any memory of this happening. But I'm sure the first time I heard that, I was like, what list was shake? What's this? And then you don't have time to really dwell on it because then you're, like, in with the rest of it. It's crazy. 

Kip:
[00:59:14 - 00:59:15]
It is crazy. Yeah. 

Theresa:
[00:59:15 - 00:59:15]
Well done. 

Kip:
[00:59:15 - 00:59:19]
People are probably just like, wait, what? Yeah, what list? What are you talking about? 

Theresa:
[00:59:19 - 00:59:25]
Oh, and then just immediately, like Amanda said, forgot about it, because then Danny's going crazy on them. 

Kip:
[00:59:25 - 00:59:31]
And because you don't really know who Jacob is, you've never heard of a list before. Probably didn't even really think about it again, like, until. 

Amanda:
[00:59:32 - 00:59:47]
But that's why. Re watching it, like, truly has been magical and is. I'm. Is why people can. Because a lot of people ask me, they're like, how do you watch a show like this over and over again when you know what's gonna happen? It's like, because you can go back and see things, like, holy. 

Kip:
[00:59:47 - 00:59:48]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[00:59:49 - 01:00:07]
Like, beginning of season three, we're hearing about something that is literally going to be a major plot point. Four seasons to come. And for those who aren't. And I'm going to say you won't even really know what they're talking about for, like, another two seasons. Well, less than that, but you know what I mean, like, on and off. 

Kip:
[01:00:07 - 01:00:08]
Is it less than that? 

Amanda:
[01:00:08 - 01:00:10]
No, it'd be more than that because it's season. 

Kip:
[01:00:10 - 01:00:12]
I don't think you really. 

Amanda:
[01:00:12 - 01:00:13]
Five, six. 

Kip:
[01:00:13 - 01:00:16]
Yeah. Like, it's literally almost at the end. 

Amanda:
[01:00:16 - 01:00:36]
Yeah. So, like. And that's why, like. And yeah, you're right. Maybe they didn't know exactly every detail that was going to be, but they either made some sort of throwaway line and then stuck with it till the end, or they were thinking about it now and it took whatever course it did. But I. That's why I just. They're always going to be compelling storytellers to me. 

Kip:
[01:00:36 - 01:00:42]
And, like, whatever reason it is, it still works. Yeah, it's still cool. Like, it's still 100. 

Amanda:
[01:00:42 - 01:00:46]
Oh, it's so cool. I literally was like. We were both, like, so excited. I just. 

Theresa:
[01:00:47 - 01:00:48]
You're like, wow. 

Amanda:
[01:00:48 - 01:00:58]
I think it's just such a good example of how good the show is, and I would love to have seen their, like, continuity boards for this. 

Kip:
[01:00:58 - 01:00:58]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[01:01:01 - 01:01:02]
Oh, it's so good. 

Kip:
[01:01:03 - 01:01:08]
Okay. Well, I mean, I think we kind of covered it all. Is there anything we missed? 

Amanda:
[01:01:08 - 01:01:15]
I don't think so. I don't think so. I mean, Julie, where are we at with Juliet this. This episode? 

Kip:
[01:01:15 - 01:01:35]
It's hard for me to take away the remainder of the series, but in this moment, in this episode with Juliet, I'm like, you're really annoying. Yes, you're really annoying me. Like, especially when she was, like, trying to make a joke when Jack's getting ready for surgery, and he's just like, is that a yes? Like, just be serious. 

Amanda:
[01:01:35 - 01:01:59]
I. I think her whole, like, Good Cop thing is starting to wear on me a little bit, like, motherly, like, I'm gonna be cookies and tell you everything's gonna be okay. Like, and you're not gonna put this hood on because of that. But you're gonna do it because we're gonna kill Sawyer if you don't. It's like, shut up, Juliet. Like, I love Julia, but this episode, she was grinding my gears, so I didn't get that. 

Theresa:
[01:02:01 - 01:02:06]
I was fine with it. Like, don't you think that, like, no gears ground. 

Amanda:
[01:02:06 - 01:02:11]
Like, she's just a little bit, like, too. It's too hard to know what's going on with her. 

Theresa:
[01:02:11 - 01:02:21]
No, I know, but that's why I love it, because I. I don't know how I feel. Like, I know how I feel about her in the long term, but at this point in time, I don't know how I feel about her, and I love that. 

Amanda:
[01:02:21 - 01:02:22]
Yeah, fair enough. 

Kip:
[01:02:22 - 01:02:23]
Interesting. 

Theresa:
[01:02:23 - 01:02:39]
It makes for a very interesting character to me because, like, I don't know if I trust her. I don't know if I hate her. I don't know if I love her. I don't know how I'm supposed to feel about her, but I know that I am interested. You can't trust her because she's another. 

Kip:
[01:02:39 - 01:02:40]
She's another. 

Theresa:
[01:02:40 - 01:02:40]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[01:02:40 - 01:02:42]
And she's showing that she can't be trusted. 

Theresa:
[01:02:42 - 01:02:44]
But a part of me wants to trust her. 

Kip:
[01:02:44 - 01:02:45]
Yeah. Because she's so sweet. 

Theresa:
[01:02:45 - 01:02:46]
Right. 

Kip:
[01:02:46 - 01:02:48]
Like, it's too sweet in this episode. I agree with Amanda on that one. 

Theresa:
[01:02:48 - 01:02:55]
Oh, I was fine with it, but. Yeah. No, I was just kind of. Yeah, that's how. Yeah, that made no sense, but. 

Kip:
[01:02:55 - 01:03:04]
Yeah, no, no, it made sense, but. And that. That's kind of it. Like, Ben was extra yellow in his final scene. Did you notice that? Like, yeah, he was looking. 

Theresa:
[01:03:04 - 01:03:06]
He was looking more and more sickly. 

Kip:
[01:03:06 - 01:03:11]
Like, after Jack's diagnosis that morning, the producer like, shit, we got to make him look sick. 

Amanda:
[01:03:11 - 01:03:11]
Yeah. 

Theresa:
[01:03:11 - 01:03:13]
Make him look sick or he's going to die tomorrow. 

Kip:
[01:03:13 - 01:03:33]
Yeah, exactly. So he was yellow and creepy as always, but then, like, oddly hopeful that the surgery was going to work out. Just so weird that, like, you said, amanda, to put your faith in this man when after everything you've done to him, and you're still going to believe that he's going to save your life. 

Amanda:
[01:03:33 - 01:03:52]
I think he's just like, you know, he's so into himself. And this idea. He's kind of like the. The others version of John Locke. Right. Like, this idea that he has a purpose and he is this, and he is. And it's like he just trusts, I think, that it's going to work out. Slash, you know, it's either that or he's Just like, well, I'm going to die either way, so it's worth it. 

Kip:
[01:03:52 - 01:03:53]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[01:03:53 - 01:04:09]
Worth it, child, but. Or he just trusts Jack is, like, that decent of a guy. But like I said, it's not even just about his decency at this point. It's like, would you if you were to. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly right. The right word, Kip, is capacity. This is a man who has not performed a surgery for, like, months. 

Kip:
[01:04:09 - 01:04:09]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[01:04:09 - 01:04:20]
And who is dehydrated and malnutrition, malnourished and sleep deprived and, like, not working. Like. 

Kip:
[01:04:20 - 01:04:21]
Yeah. 

Amanda:
[01:04:21 - 01:04:33]
And you're manipulating him emotionally and physically. And, like, you're like, here's a scalpel. And by the way, when he's like, anesthesia is sterile. And she's like, yeah, yeah. I'm like, that place doesn't look sterile to me. 

Theresa:
[01:04:33 - 01:04:34]
No, it looks grimy. 

Amanda:
[01:04:34 - 01:04:42]
I would not want to be grimy. Like I said, well, okay. Now it's in that place with no mask and no gloves. He's dying of an infection in a week either way, so. 

Kip:
[01:04:42 - 01:04:43]
Exactly. 

Amanda:
[01:04:43 - 01:04:46]
Goodbye, Ben. My nice knowing you. 

Kip:
[01:04:46 - 01:04:51]
Jack's just yelling, and, you know, there's spittle coming out of that all over the place in that open wound. 

Amanda:
[01:04:51 - 01:04:55]
Tom's in there. Like, Tom's not a clean guy. 

Theresa:
[01:04:55 - 01:04:56]
No, he did not scrub. 

Kip:
[01:04:56 - 01:04:59]
Tom looked really concerned about Ben, though. 

Amanda:
[01:04:59 - 01:05:09]
Like, tom, like, can you hear me up there? Tom actually might be my favorite right now. Yeah. When he's like. He's like, can you hear? He's like, yeah, so good. 

Kip:
[01:05:09 - 01:05:10]
That's so sweet. 

Amanda:
[01:05:10 - 01:05:15]
Yeah. Like, as he's like, do you not realize, Tom, that some shit's about to go down? 

Kip:
[01:05:15 - 01:05:24]
He's just, like, this naive, like, lovable guy, and he was. I swear there was, like, tears in his eyes when he didn't know Ben was gonna like, what? Jack? What are you doing to Ben? 

Amanda:
[01:05:24 - 01:05:24]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[01:05:24 - 01:05:26]
Oh, man. So good. 

Amanda:
[01:05:28 - 01:05:35]
All right, Speaking of good characters, Teresa, in our list of people who is actually raining, how are we doing? 

Theresa:
[01:05:37 - 01:06:19]
All right, so we have at the bottom still Charlie with negative 560. Then we have Benjamin with negative 235. Then we have Juliet with 125. Then we have Dez with 500. Kate with 690, Claire with 780, Locke with 1350. Then we have Jin and Jack tied with 1425. Then we have sun with 1530. Then we have Sawyer with 1605. Said with 1915. And Hurley at the top still with 2405. 

Amanda:
[01:06:19 - 01:06:20]
That's awesome. 

Kip:
[01:06:20 - 01:06:21]
Wow. 

Theresa:
[01:06:21 - 01:06:22]
Jack's moving up. 

Kip:
[01:06:22 - 01:06:26]
Well, good it's about time. He's been underrepresented for too long. 

Theresa:
[01:06:26 - 01:06:28]
Moving on up. 

Kip:
[01:06:30 - 01:06:36]
Good. Charlie will probably stay at the bottom. Well, no, he's got a good arc coming. 

Theresa:
[01:06:36 - 01:06:39]
Does he? Cause, God, he's annoying. 

Kip:
[01:06:39 - 01:06:42]
But it's not good enough for me. 

Amanda:
[01:06:43 - 01:06:47]
Not to Cobra. He's got a good arc coming up, but it's not good enough for me. 

Theresa:
[01:06:47 - 01:06:48]
I'm curious. 

Kip:
[01:06:48 - 01:06:49]
Oh, yeah. 

Theresa:
[01:06:49 - 01:06:50]
I don't know his arc. 

Kip:
[01:06:51 - 01:06:57]
Time. It says time. It has time in there. I forget how you said it. 

Theresa:
[01:06:57 - 01:07:00]
I don't remember. Honestly, Gage Rhyme. 

Amanda:
[01:07:00 - 01:07:20]
There's nothing like that. At first, I didn't even know that's what you were saying. I thought you were trying to say. I thought you were saying Toronto. At first, I'm like, that's not a province. It's a question. What. What province they're from. So I thought you were trying to say Toron. I like Teresa. That's not a. 

Theresa:
[01:07:20 - 01:07:21]
That's a city. 

Amanda:
[01:07:21 - 01:07:23]
And then I was like, oh. She's saying. 

Kip:
[01:07:25 - 01:07:28]
Oh, man, I can't wait to slice that one out. 

Theresa:
[01:07:28 - 01:07:29]
Oh, no. 

Amanda:
[01:07:29 - 01:07:30]
Anyway. 

Kip:
[01:07:30 - 01:07:33]
All right. I'm giving it a 9.5. 

Amanda:
[01:07:33 - 01:07:36]
I was gonna give it a 9.5, Teresa. 

Theresa:
[01:07:36 - 01:07:36]
9. 

Amanda:
[01:07:36 - 01:07:40]
Okay. Pretty high. I was literally thinking 9.5. 

Kip:
[01:07:40 - 01:07:41]
It's. It's a great episode. 

Theresa:
[01:07:41 - 01:07:42]
It's so good. 

Kip:
[01:07:42 - 01:07:46]
Yeah. I don't know. We just spent the whole episode talking about how great it was. I'm good with just giving. Yeah. 

Theresa:
[01:07:46 - 01:07:47]
Yeah, it's great. 

Amanda:
[01:07:47 - 01:07:47]
So good. 

Theresa:
[01:07:47 - 01:07:50]
Intense. Intense. 

Amanda:
[01:07:51 - 01:07:52]
It's getting good. 

Kip:
[01:07:52 - 01:07:53]
It's getting real good. 

Amanda:
[01:07:53 - 01:07:53]
Yeah. 

Kip:
[01:07:53 - 01:07:55]
I'm glad we don't have to wait months for the next episode. 

Theresa:
[01:07:55 - 01:07:56]
I know. 

Amanda:
[01:07:56 - 01:07:58]
I'm so glad I never had to do that. Really? 

Kip:
[01:07:58 - 01:08:03]
Yeah. Just one week. Just one week. See you next week. Bye.