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Let's Get Lost with The Oceanic Three
We're your Oceanic Three: Theresa, Amanda, and Kip. Join us as we get in-depth about our favourite television show - Lost! We talk about everything: The Island, The Survivors, The Tailies, The Others, The Myths, The Theories, and on and on and on, but we also talk about how Lost changed the television landscape when it came out and how it still reverberates to this day.
Most of all, though, we always come back to how Lost is primarily a character-driven show. For every myth and mystery, five incredible character stories were told. They were complex, mysterious, beautiful, and sometimes challenging to watch - but the characters and their interwoven lives brought Lost to a different level unlike anything ever seen on television.
We would love it if you joined us as we get in-depth about all the Losties, what makes them tick, why they do what they do, and ultimately - what they're doing on the Island.
Let's Get Lost with The Oceanic Three
Let's Get Lost 72 - Season 4: Eggtown
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
A Dharma house, a plate of eggs, and a courtroom full of nonsense might be the weirdest recipe for a turning point, but that’s exactly where Lost Season 4 Episode 4 “Eggtown” takes us. We come in hot on this one, because the hour asks us to believe a lot, emotionally and logically, while pushing Kate Austen into yet another cycle of secrecy, mixed signals, and self-preservation.
We break down the island story as Locke tries to hold power in Otherton (the barracks), Sawyer and Hurley somehow become the roommate duo we didn’t know we needed, and Kate goes hunting for information from Miles that could blow up her standing with everyone. From Ben Linus needling Locke at breakfast to Miles tossing out a $3.2 million price tag, we talk motives, manipulation, and why the freighter crew still feels like the strangest collection of people ever assembled.
Then we jump to the flash-forward and get brutally honest about Kate’s trial in Los Angeles: what the scene is trying to achieve, why the courtroom beats don’t hold up, and how Jack’s testimony adds another brick to the Oceanic Six cover story. We also connect the episode’s “baby” misdirection to the final reveal, and ask whether the writers earned it or rushed it.
Listen, then tell us where you land: is “Eggtown” a necessary mess or just a mess?
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Studio Updates And Lost Tchotchkes
AmandaWe're three best friends and we love lost and we love talking.
KipBut even more so, we love talking about lost.
TheresaSo join us for some laughs, good conversation, and let's get lost together. Welcome back to your favorite Lost podcast. And I'm Teresa. To my front is Kipper. And to my right is is Amanda.
AmandaHello, hello.
TheresaHi. Um, how's everybody doing? Good. We're in April and it was snowing. Yeah.
AmandaThe drive back was crazy. And then the driveout here was a bit rough, but yeah, I'm not about that.
TheresaI'm also not about um like the year's going really fast. It's going really fast.
KipWell, what do you guys think of our new display?
TheresaI love it.
KipI really like our studio here. We have lost paraphernalia. That's not the word we're supposed to use.
AmandaOh well, that is that the word? Ephemeral.
TheresaEphemeris. I'm looking at ephemeral sounds like a medical term, no? Ephemerines.
AmandaJen gave us a new word for it, and we've already forgotten it, which is why no one should teach us new.
KipAnd what it is is all this cool stuff we have.
AmandaEphemeral.
KipEphemeral. No.
AmandaOh, here we go. Ephemeral meaning. Lasting for a very short time. That's not it at all. What is it?
TheresaThat's gonna bother me for well.
KipWe have tchotchkis. That's the word I know. Yeah.
AmandaYeah, a new display of some cool stuff. Maybe we'll put it on the socials so you guys can see it.
KipBut we've got a couple posters, we've got our goods from the getting lost doc that they sent us. We've got some pops. We've got our rocks. No, no. I touch my rock first.
TheresaI love your rock.
KipWe've got that.
AmandaThose are never too far away. So Tracy can touch her rock.
KipShe loves her rock. You haven't touched her rock yet this season.
TheresaI know.
KipTouch it now.
TheresaBut I the one that I like is too far. Hold on one second. I wish I were Spider-Man.
AmandaThere we go. Oh, reunited.
TheresaReunited man. Oh my god. Okay, but seriously, though, this rock is so perfect. It fits my palm so nicely.
KipAnd you put it on your face. It's a beautiful rock. Let me take a picture for the socials. Oh, that's cute, Teresa. You love your rock. I do love my rock.
TheresaIt's so cold against my skims. And it fits my palm so nicely.
AmandaI I think it's sad that you're leaving the jack rock behind. It's too round.
KipThat's my rock. I painted that.
AmandaBut it's very well painted.
KipThank you.
AmandaI was very impressed.
KipIt's a jack pop on a rock.
AmandaIt's really cool. It's a pop on a rock. It's a pop on a rock, but like a pop rock.
TheresaOkay, put this in your hand.
AmandaI have held the rock. Not like that.
TheresaPut it in your hand properly. Yes.
AmandaLike I'm holding like a like a shot put. Yeah, like oh yes.
KipI mean Tristan, can you take pictures of the rocks and put them on our socials after?
AmandaI mean, this is nice. Wait, you're not just a rock.
TheresaYou're holding it weird. Why did you did you dent it? No. How could she dent the rock?
AmandaBut what I've done to it.
TheresaKibber, you try to put it. You put see where this is? This is where your heel the heel of your hand goes. Okay.
AmandaDo not drop it on this glass table.
TheresaNo. Oh rock. Yes. Okay.
AmandaWell, I was really hoping that we'd be able to get a few more listeners this season, but we've gone full rock. Certainly, we've lost anyone who might have decided to join us today.
KipTry the jack rock.
AmandaI don't like it as it like it's he's cute. Where did you find these rocks? And give him little kisses, but it's really well done, I will say.
KipI'm very impressed. Uh a friend brought them over and we did a rock painting night. This is a very perfect rock. The other one the friend painted, and then the jack rock I painted.
AmandaI should try to paint some rocks. You could have a rock painting night. Yeah.
KipThat's not as big as it once was, I feel. No, you know what?
AmandaYou know what's really in right now? Dot art.
KipOh, I don't care for dot art.
AmandaI will go cross-eyed.
KipSo I think it reminds me of magic posters. Remember those magic posters?
AmandaOh, and you have to stare at them. That weird place I stayed when I was at work last couple weeks ago had one of those on the wall. I should have taken a picture for you guys. I tried it too, and I could not get it.
TheresaI don't know because I never saw it. Okay, like you know in that Seinfeld episode where they're looking at and it's like yeah, Mr. Pitt can't see the horse. That's like, are they supposed to move? No, no, no.
AmandaNo, but you it like kind of, and I think that's what it I was always confused about. I thought it would look more like different, but it's just like the image kind of just separates from the back of the edge.
KipYeah, it becomes like 3D, it sort of pops out at you.
TheresaI mean, I've never seen a name. I've never seen I've it's doesn't work for me because I have cross-eyed. Yeah, I have eye issues.
AmandaI can never see them either. When he couldn't do it, I laughed and laughed because I was like, that's so freaking accurate, that feeling.
TheresaYeah, I've never I've never seen it.
KipSo anyway, we have some ephemeral farophenalia on the walls. We've got it's not ephemeral, though, right?
AmandaNo, we the ephemeral means something else.
KipWe don't know what the word is. So we've got stuff, and we're our collection is growing.
TheresaIt is growing. I'm we got the like itty bitty pot. What is that? Itty bitty people oh little people. Little the little little little lost they're called little people. Is that what they're called?
AmandaYeah, they're like Lego little people. Oh, yeah.
TheresaOr not Fisher or Fisher Price little people. Yeah, Fisher Price. And then we have the DVD the Blu-ray. The original is it Blu-ray?
KipOh, yes. Box set. It's like pyramid, it came with a bunch of stuff, it came with a map, it came with a bunch of clues. It's very cool.
TheresaYeah, you can use a black light on it. But a cool one.
AmandaI should bring my lost book to add to this. You should, yeah. That one they got you for Christmas.
KipIt'll be our collection. Wait, what what I I also have Sawyers somewhere. I need more pops. That's they're so hard to find now.
TheresaI found a website where I think I can find them, but they're very expensive because new run.
AmandaThey just did new Firefly ones.
TheresaYeah.
AmandaI feel like Lost is way more popular than well.
KipI think it is more popular than Firefly. I mean, I love Firefly.
AmandaFirefly is like weirdly culty, though.
KipThat's true. I feel like Lost has its own like Lost is culty, but it's also more mainstream.
AmandaSo I feel like they might release some more, but I have Sawyers somewhere I could find, and then you could add that. Okay.
Dreading Eggtown And Setting The Table
AmandaWhat are we talking about? Well, today we're just, you know what, guys? I'm gonna be honest. If it seems like we're a little bit more scattered or kind of bantering more than usual, it's cause we got a Kate episode, and uh overly worried about getting there, you know?
KipIt's it's not all Kate episodes are bad.
AmandaBut this one was frustrating.
KipThis was not great, and I feel bad because last episode I'm like, Eggtown's great, it's one of the good ones, and I watched it and I'm like, oh shit.
AmandaYou're like, I was I mean, it is interesting, like it moved it, it drives the story. Yeah, okay.
KipThe name always like I'm like Egg Town's so memorable. I like eggs. Let's hear what this is.
AmandaEggtown is what it's called, and it was written by Elizabeth Sarnoff and Gregory Nations, directed by Steven Williams. Kate's need to get information out of Miles may jeopardize her standing with Locke as well as with Sawyer. A stunning flash forward to Los Angeles courtroom provides a glimpse into Kate's trial.
TheresaI did not care for this episode.
AmandaWell, we'll get there.
KipUm, okay, so this one got a shocking 7.9 out of 10 on IMDb. However, it is low for IM for lost IMDb. Yeah. A little high for me, my liking. So 7.9 out of 10. Viewers 13.64 million. So basically the same as last week. I think season four has hit a bit of a plateau.
TheresaI think next week will be much lower after this episode.
KipUm, which is well, we'll get to that. Sawyer's nickname count. We had two. Montezuma.
AmandaMontezuma. Which I don't know. Bruce Lee.
KipOh shit, I missed that one. So three. Well, I mean, there was Freckles. Yeah. But I forgot. So three. Yeah.
AmandaWhat's the third one?
TheresaFreckles.
KipWell, Freckles, Montezuma, then Bruce Lee.
AmandaOh. Yeah.
KipSo did you know Montezuma was like an ancient king of the Aztec Empire?
AmandaNo, why was he calling him that though? I don't get it. Was he big?
KipI don't know. I think that's why. But also Do you know what Montezuma's revenge is? I've heard that before, but I don't know what it is. It's when you go to like a Mexican all-inclusive and get sick.
TheresaOh, I don't get it.
KipI mean, I don't get it either, but that's what it is.
AmandaLike, what do you mean get sick? Sick from the The Food. The food and then number two like specifically traveler's diarrhea, but like exactly.
KipOh, like food po. But not even. Like just like just from being in a different place. So it was not a good, endearing nickname. No.
TheresaI don't think. I don't like that he's technically cheating. He's not supposed to do be calling him nicknames.
KipI think that's over.
TheresaI think it's over too. I thought it was forever.
KipOh no, no, no, no, no. It wasn't forever.
TheresaOh, I thought it was forever. Okay, maybe that was.
KipI think it was like a week, maybe. Oh, damn. Okay. And we're on days
Trivia That Raises More Questions
Kip93 to 94 on the island. We're back to account.
TheresaNice.
KipOkay. Are you ready for some trivia?
TheresaI don't know. Amanda's got her head her forehead against the microphone.
AmandaYeah, no, I'm just trying to see if there was like a better zoom in. Yeah, like a reason for that.
KipUm greats.
AmandaI don't get it. I don't get it at all. That's okay.
KipI think you just need to get it. I don't need to, you know.
AmandaMaybe because he was splashing the toilet.
KipMaybe.
AmandaBut that seems a little bit uh I think we're giving him too much credit here. Whatever. It's okay. So you're you get a pass.
KipOkay, so now I know question trivia question number one, you're not gonna get this one because of the previous uh comments. Where does the title Egg Town come from?
AmandaIs it a nickname for LA? Is that where they live now? I don't even know where they live.
KipThey're definitely in California.
AmandaYeah.
KipBut I don't know, like or is it gotta be LA because that's where Jack used to practice medicine, and I think he's at kind of the same place. Yeah.
AmandaBut why would she be on trial in LA?
KipOkay, let's not we'll get to that. Let's not differ too far from the trivia, because that's a good question.
AmandaEggtown, eggtown. Uh is it because is it as simple as the fact that he served him eggs?
KipDoes anyone have a sound?
AmandaNo.
KipNo, I can't even I can't even think of a. So according to Carlton Cuse, primarily named Eggtown because Locke fries eggs for Ben's breakfast, and secondarily because the story deals with Kate's possible pregnancy. And by deals with Kate's possible pregnancy, they mention it in one line. It's a stupid answer. It's a stupid thing.
AmandaThat's also like a really stupid reason to do an egg, like a little on the nose, Carlton.
KipIt's a dumb name. I don't care for that. Oh, it's just bad. Stick with the fried eggs then. Yeah. Yeah. Like the whole pregnancy that was stupid. Yeah.
AmandaEgg town.
KipAnyway. Question number two. What book is Sawyer reading?
AmandaOh, oh, did it be amazing? You should know this because it's on your list, right? I don't listen. Okay, guys, I'm very want to say something. It's not water down. No, it's not. I think it's called the Invention of Morale. Something of morale.
KipDid you make a sound?
AmandaI said dun dun dicks.
KipYou're correct. It's the invention of morale.
AmandaYes. I can't remember who it's by, but I remember putting it on my list, and I and I remember that being the thing that he it looked like that. But the real reason I think it was invention of morale is because that book is about a fugitive. And so I assume that it would be and they like are on an island, but everyone's fake.
KipYes, okay. So the invention of morale, a 1940 science fiction novel by Argentine writer Adolfo Bio Casares. Oh, it's never about a fugitive who hides on a deserted Pacific Island, but the people are only images and do not exist.
AmandaYou read it? No, no, no, no. The summary for it.
TheresaThere's no way she read it. When she said that, I was like, No, it's on the list.
AmandaIt's on the list of Sawyer books. And I remember looking into it and being like, that's crazy, because I'm certain that someone picked up on that at some point, and that fueled the like, it's an Easter egg in Egg Town about like he's reading a book about a fugitive who's on a Sassy Island with fake people, and that's because they're all dead and not real. And yeah, it's pretty good. Like that's a good book to have him reading.
KipYeah, exactly. But it definitely could lead people down a path that is not a bit of a rather true.
AmandaBut this whole episode does that a couple times, so okay.
KipThird and final trivia question for you today. This is the first episode of season four, which is rated TV-14. Can you tell me why?
TheresaIs it because they're rolling round? I did not hear a second. Oh, sorry. Is it because they're rolling now? Roll and roll.
KipWhat?
TheresaRoll them row.
KipI'm sorry, what?
TheresaOr roll and row? No. Who's doing what? What do you mean? Who's who's who's it because they were rolling round?
KipWhat does that mean?
AmandaLike Hayden Sawyer? Yeah. Like rolling around? Yeah, that's what I saw tonight. Yeah.
KipI mean, that's partly, but that's not the full answer.
TheresaBecause there's there's definitely like a partial butt cheek situation there. On her? On her. She was wearing little cheekies. That's half. That's half.
AmandaDoes someone say something bad, like a word?
KipNo.
TheresaWas their tongue?
KipNo. I mean, I don't agree with this. I think it might just be cut, wrong. But they're saying it's also because of the way Locke tortured Miles and by tortured like stuck that grenade in his mouth.
AmandaIt was kind of intense though.
KipBut TV 14.
AmandaFor network television, though. I don't think so.
TheresaI don't think so.
AmandaWell, I don't know. Like the US they care more about they're right, they care more about the nudity and like not even nudity, but like sex. In Europe, they care more about violence.
TheresaSo it was probably the roll round. Yeah, that's why I thought it was a roll and wrong. Because I was like, this is gummer sting me.
AmandaWell, it is kind of crazy though. In the US, they're like, violence is fine, but like, God forbid, two people be like some skin.
KipYeah. Come on.
AmandaAnd then in Europe they're like, you can be buck naked, but don't show us even like a hint of a weapon. And I'm like, yeah, Canada's Canada. We just do whatever we really do. And violence. Just kidding.
KipI mean, I love violence in TV and movies. Action.
AmandaI like when it's realistic.
KipOh, I don't. I prefer a bit more craziness. Like the Quentin Tarantino type. Like a crazy flip shooting guns. Like, that's not real. I want an action sequence.
TheresaLike the Matrix.
KipYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
TheresaOr like a like a superhero movie.
KipI don't need reality. No.
AmandaWe have reality.
TheresaYes. Excuse me, I have to burst.
KipThere is your trivia.
AmandaOkay.
KipWe got some good answers. I feel I feel good about it. You did alright.
AmandaWe did alright.
KipYou did I.
AmandaI'll uh be reading that at some point as well. I have three more seasons to finish the whole list.
KipThat's not gonna happen.
TheresaGirl, how do you think? How do many books have you read today? Have you read this year so far? Cease.
KipWhat do you mean? Cease?
TheresaShe's read six books, and none of them are Sawyer's books.
KipI was gonna say, you haven't read six of Sawyer's books.
AmandaNo. I've not why don't you just read them?
KipIf you're reading books.
AmandaI'm really upset he started started with Watership Down. I'm gonna have to read them out of order because Watership Down is terrible.
KipI challenge you to read a Sawyer book next. What book are you reading right now?
AmandaUh I'm listening to um Melissa Oftener's memoir. Who is that? She's the bassist for Hole in the Smashing Pogans.
KipI challenge you when this is done to read a Sawyer book. Any one of them. Doesn't have to be Watership Down. Just get started.
AmandaOkay, you're right. I'll do it.
TheresaIt's a running gag on the show, but like it's starting to get sad.
AmandaLike it's a gag, but like it's gagging me now. Yeah.
TheresaIt's getting sad.
AmandaIt's gaggy. Fine.
KipI mean, we've been on the air since 2022. Yeah, exactly. Since 2026.
AmandaAnd I have friends. I mean, to be fair, Water Chip Down is constantly sitting at my desk at work, but read that one story.
KipOkay.
AmandaThat one I do have. So that could be a good one.
KipCould you read it? Because I really want you to read it.
AmandaOkay, I'll read it. Have you read it?
KipNo. Oh, I don't know if bunnies make a Oh my god.
TheresaI have the best.
KipShould we all read it?
TheresaWe should read a chapter each and put it on the Patreon.
KipWhat do you mean?
AmandaRead it out loud. Yeah. I'm pretty sure that we might get in trouble.
KipOh yeah. Right. That's gotta be old enough so that it's it's past copyright. But what if we just make it?
AmandaI think we should all read it and then every like at the end of each season, we'll have like a book club episode where we discuss a book of sorts. No, no. Hold on.
KipWait, wait, wait. Hold on. You're passing your milk.
AmandaI'm sharing. I'm not saying I'm not gonna do it.
TheresaPassing the book? Sharing the book.
KipNo, no, it's all of our responsibility.
AmandaI just feel like I would be more motivated if I knew that I had like a idea.
TheresaYou were like, I think I'm gonna read all the books. Bob Water Ship Down in the bag. No, reading the
The Sawyer Book List Challenge
Theresabuttons.
AmandaI'm gonna do a book report.
KipDo a book report. Present it.
AmandaThat'll be I'm gonna have a standalone episode and I'm gonna do my book report for you all.
TheresaImagine just Amanda.
KipI'm Amanda, and I'm here to talk to you today about Water Ship Down.
TheresaThere was one bunny and then there was another bunny, and then the bunnies went to Water Ship Down.
AmandaYou know what?
TheresaAll elder listeners want to see action and not more empty properties. That's kind of what I'm known for. So yeah, because they've been waiting for four years now.
KipOh boy. Okay, wow. I think we've reached the point where it's time for Teresa's dream of consciousness.
Theresa's Stream of Consciousness
TheresaAlso. Ew, whose eye is this? Oh, it's Locke's. He just what lives there now? Where'd he get the cantaloupe? Why is he so aggressive when he's cutting? Okay, so you're not gonna eat carbs for breakfast, just two eggs and some melon? Ooh, what are you what are you gonna read? Did you know that fruit before carbs gives me an upset stomach? Fun fact. Um, wait, this is his basement? Oh, it's for Benjamin. Wait, you're just gonna stand there and watch him eat? You mean Ben's own roof? You live at Ben's now, weirdo. Lock Ben ain't gonna talk, my dude. Do not talk to this man. Yikes. Yikes. Ben definitely nailed it on the head there. Everybody drink, he said lost. Okay, well clearly not. He's not finished. He ate one piece of cantaloupe, he didn't even touch his eggs. See, and now you're mad. This is why you don't talk to him. Okay. Everyone's just ch having coffee, chilling. Oh dear, the eyes they're making at each other. Oh my god, Sawyer's damps. Yum. Um, have they all showered now that they're here? Wait, pregnancy thing. Is she pregnant? Does she think she might be?
AmandaYeah.
TheresaUm, Kate, you know, Claire just went to make him some coffee. Oh no. A Kate episode. Wait, what are we ready for? Oh my god, is she finally gonna face her list of crimes? Oh my god, she's like a celebrator. Oh my god, this is so aggressive. Oh my god, this guy just yelling gibberish at her. What is happening? Yikes that's a lot of charges, Kate. Oh, bitch, please, you are guilty. I mean, they're not wrong. She does tend to dip. So to jail with you. Oh, it's son and gin. Oh, they're planning their lives. Oh my god, Jin. You're so sweet. Oh, son, that's awkward. Okay, more humans. Like, okay. Oh, that look on Faraday's face. Wait, why is everybody so sweaty? Is that a long trek? Aw, just a taste of old lock with the chicken killing. Oh dear lock, this is awkward. You are a walking red flag. Wait, are you gonna feed everyone with that chicken? Oh no. Let me guess. Easy target and hurley. That's mean. He's so innocent. Man, that is a dirty ass window. Wait, what do you want to talk to this guy for? Oh, jeez, Miles. Wait, what are you talking about, Kate? Oh my god, of course. Will I be on okay off Island? Girl, please. Wait, who's time, Miles? Who? Oh, Ben. Girl, he does not know anything about you. I'm pretty sure he's lying. Yikes, 15 years. I mean, you kinda did the crimes. Something's gotta happen. Okay, but you know, Kate's a runner. She's a track star. Wait, who is him? Him who? Oh, it's Jack. Wait, so you are pregnant? Julie, that's funny. Uh, where did they get milk? Like, where are they keeping this milk? Is that still good? Yeesh, Kate going there is really causing some issues. Wait, why is Locke gonna have like a group dinner? He's barely upset, Kate. He's barely upset, Kate. Just pick him up. He's so chubby, little baby's so cute. Um, what did you do? Oh, you brought the son. Wait, no, it's Jack. It's worse? Wait, why is that worse? Man, he looking foin though. That smile. Do you have to call her Miss Austin? Why can't you call her Kate? Wait, wasn't there like a wanted poster she had? Wait, what are you talking about? Oh god, getting me mad at you, Jack, you lying. I'm so confused. What is happening between them? Wait, it wasn't it wasn't moving? Wait, what? Oh my god, you're quite the liar. Well, not anymore. Yikes on bikes. What is happening? This is uncomfortable. Did they date or something? Post Island? I love that Sawyer still has those glasses. Oh now what, Kate? Oh god. You can't. Oh, you're just gonna walk in. Oh, I hate when Kate's on an agenda. She just uses everyone. Ooh, boxed wine. Yeah, Sawyer ain't no dummy. Just out with it. Say no is Sawyer. You're not her puppet. Like, why would you bust him out? He's Moy Danherosa. Oh Sawyer, why would you let this happen? Anyone wanna teach him how to play backgammon? Oh Locke, he's already in your head. I do like this vulnerability though. Oh, he's telling him. Wait, what's happening? No, you know what? I'm pretty sure Sawyer is playing Loc. Everyone be playing everyone. Wait, what's with the gun? I knew it. We're all doing weird shit. I bet Miles is with Ben now. I knew it. Backwards game. Wait, did Sawyer not know? No, he knew. I don't know anymore. Pretty sure he knew. Who repairs these things on the island? Like she just broke a window. Uh, where did she get this gun now? Wait, who's he? What's Miles doing? Wait, why? What is happening right now? Oh, we're double crossing whoever sent you? One of who? Oh, okay. Wait, what? You want $3.2 million in cash? Okay. So he does know her shit. Whoops, sorry, Miles. Oh, there's your answer girlfriend. But wait. You obviously got off the island, but why? What was the plan here? Wait, what has nothing to do with you? Kate, you really love Oh, you really don't have anything. Oh wait. Kate, nothing really has to do anything to do with you. You're just obsessed with yourself. Like, how is any everyone supposed to get out of this? Oh, Claire's so sweet. Kate really can't be surprised by this, can she? Wait. There's windows into where she's supposed to be changing? Oh my god, it's Anne Zelda. Wait, why does she need to talk to her mother? Yeah, I mean I get why she's mad, ma'am. I mean it kind of makes sense. Oh, well that's awful. Six months for the last four years you've been told you're gonna die? Yikes. Wait, what if she doesn't testify? What happens? Like, where's this baby? Who's taking care of him while she's in jail? Oh, oh my god, that's not cool, lady. Okay, good, she showered. Oh dear, what are you gonna do, Kate? Oh dear, Sawyer. Oh, I knew it. All of the duping. Kate, keep it in your pants. I get it. Sawyer's real cute. No, don't do Oh no. Oh my god, why? I mean, I get it. He's very hot, he's very cute. I get it. But girl, what about Jack? Oh, or or are you gonna just live there now? What are these two doing? Uh close but no cigar, my dude. Wait, does he have memory issues? Ooh, Jack is a Smarticle Particle. It's an emergency. Why? Did they just remember everybody's phone numbers? This special line you never really use? What do you mean they never landed? Oh no, there's no bueno. Well that's mean. You're gonna make him stand all day and night? Uh what the hell is happening? Lock, what the fuck? Oh my god, he's going crazy. Kind of impressive though. But he's going crazy. He's done crazy. Oh, Kate and Sawyer dumb boned. Sawyer's so warm in the morning. Wait, why are we watching this? Ugh. Wait, you're not worried? Wait, what what is this pregnancy thing? Why is it so awkward? Do you want to have a baby, Kate? I mean, that's very confusing. I mean, okay. He's not wrong, but that wasn't okay. Uh Kate wants no jail time. Wait, okay. Even though the arson there's no one to testify, what about that guy she killed? And like that cop she ran over. We're just forgiving that because her mom won't testify that she blew her father up? Uh how did Jack know she was gonna be there? Oh, same question. Oh, why would her lawyer Oh and that question was answered too. Wait, why are we telling this story? Because she was gonna get in trouble? Oh, that you don't love her because you do love her. I'm confused. What is your situation ship? Why don't you want to see her son? What's this situation with this damn baby? How long is this after island? Okay, that's a nice house. How did she buy it? She's just been out this whole time? When did she buy a house? Can you buy a house if you're going to jail? Who is this? Has this person been taking care of her while she was in jail? That's a big ass child. How long has this been? He's gotta be like three, right? Alright, no. That's a bad Kate.
The Big “Baby” Reveal Fallout
KipEnd. Oh mercy. Teresa, I know I knew you'd mention the size of that baby. Because she said baby, and that is not a baby.
TheresaThat is not a baby. That is a three-year-old. It talks.
KipI knew. I was watching this and like she's gonna have thoughts on the size of that child. Well, she said a baby.
AmandaWell, yeah, she keeps saying baby. Like that's misleading because they want you to think it's Sawyer's baby that she left pregnant with, right?
TheresaWe we could have thought that if they if she said my child. Like, don't say baby if it's three.
KipIf it walks and talks, yeah. Also, I'm sorry, but like what do you mean by I bet he's warm in the morning.
TheresaWhen she was cuddling him, I was like, I won't be in the cuddle puddle, but without her.
AmandaBut like his body temperature? Yeah, he just feels like he just I feel like are people not warm in the morning?
KipLike, or something, does it differ?
TheresaYeah, some people are like too hot, you know, and then some people are too cold.
AmandaAnd I feel like he would be old a lot. I feel I feel like he would be just right. Oh, okay.
TheresaAnd then with that scruff, like he he's he looked like.
AmandaI'm gonna be honest, pretty much everyone, even Kate looked good in this. Like everyone looked good in this episode. Like fire looked really good.
TheresaOh yeah, and his dumples dimples were popping absolutely. Like, did you not post no? I actually thought for this.
AmandaDid they put a filter on the like what does Withy one look?
TheresaI don't think he's attractive.
KipYes, you do. Yeah, we've gone over this before.
AmandaI don't find him attractive, but you didn't think he'd look like less wrinkly, like the lighting was really good in the compound because Kate also looked better. Like everyone looked like have they didn't like airbrushing and post?
KipLike in like no, I don't think so. I don't think so. I think you just love the look of luck.
TheresaI think you've got oh the look of luck. The look of luck is in your eyes.
AmandaOh, that's some good harmonizing eyes. Oh yeah, all right. But yeah, you love him.
KipGood uh stream of consciousness. It was fucked this episode. It's too much.
AmandaFirst of all, am I the only one who was surprised they have basements in these houses?
KipLike I mean, I feel like normally they don't. I think Ben has one for himself.
AmandaOh, because he's hiding stuff.
KipYeah, he's a hider.
AmandaLike, I get that Darwin Initiative's like pretty good at stuff, but like a full-on basement is a good one.
KipYeah, I think that's a Ben exclusive.
TheresaAnd his doesn't even look like a basement, like it looks like a dungeon.
KipYeah, exactly. Typical.
TheresaYeah, because like I'm pretty sure that's where they were keeping what's his dad's name again. Anthony. The box, yeah. In that little box.
KipLet's start with the eggs. Okay, we see Locke making eggs, yeah, cantaloupe milk, all this shit. Where does he get it from? Who knows? But no milk.
AmandaNo, they have chicken. No milk.
TheresaSo they must have just cantaloupe and eggs. But what pissed me off is.
KipWhere's the milk from? When did you you said there was milk?
TheresaOh, when they were uh on the beach. Oh that's why I was concerned because they have a they have a they have a water bottle. That's what I was like an old water bottle full of milk, and I'm wondering where did the milk come from? It's not in a milk jug.
KipNo, you're right.
TheresaThat is an old water bottle.
KipWhat's the difference between a milk jug jug and a water bottle?
TheresaBecause clearly they filled it. Like it's not like it's not dharma branded. You know what I mean? Wait, they have a cabinet.
KipI know what you mean.
TheresaYou know what I mean? Like it was like a water bottle full of milk. I'm like, where why did you dump it in there?
KipWhy would they pick milk to be in this scene?
TheresaRight.
KipAnd like why milk?
TheresaBecause like you're on an island. Where are you keeping that? Exactly.
AmandaIn the water, probably, but like is that cold enough? Probably.
TheresaI mean, it is the Pacific. I feel like it might be the danger zone, like bacterium. I think the Atlantic's colder than the Pacific.
AmandaI'm certain that they're not overly worried about it because you know, Fed is best at this point, I think.
TheresaYou don't need you don't need a luxury like milk.
KipYeah, they should have skipped the milk.
TheresaYeah, just eat dry cereal.
KipBack to the eggs, yeah.
TheresaEggs. He makes eggs and cantaloupe.
KipOne the reason for the name, egg town.
TheresaYeah. Two eggs. The last eggs.
AmandaWas it to like show that they had like I also do find it weird that they are just like living so comfortable there now?
KipYeah.
AmandaLike when like Sawyer and Hurley, and like everyone's just playing house and like cooking the food, and he's like, Those are the last of the eggs, and he's like smelling them. I'm like, well, you have fucking chickens that you killed, so like obviously get some eggs.
KipI mean, but like, is it that crazy to think that they've found these empty, fully furnished homes, and they've just been living in a deserted island for 90-ish days, three months. They're like, Great, we can play house, and this is fantastic. Hurley, I don't believe as much because I think he's a bit more like this is weird dude kind of thing. Sawyer, I can buy into. Yeah, this is great. I love it.
AmandaWell, because Sawyer has no intention of ever leaving. I think Claire Hurley and some of the other people are not necessarily like committing to island life, they're committing to like not getting off the island in this way and waiting to see what kind of happens with Locke and like other stuff. Yeah, Sawyer, I think, would be happy to stay on that island for those.
TheresaAgreed, yeah. I think so. He's got a plethora of books, so Locke, fuck's sake.
KipLike, will he ever learn not to talk to Ben? Dumb old John Locke. He literally says, I know what you're doing, it's not gonna work, and then it fucking does exactly what it what Ben's trying to do. Throw him off his game, and Locke falls for it again and again. Dumb old John Locke.
AmandaAnd he's so emotionally reactive, like it's it's like so frustrating.
KipIt was fun to hear sort of this like callback to season two or three, whenever it was they first caught Ben. Yeah, you I think same thing, just in a different room.
AmandaYeah, and his little spiel to Locke was good. Yeah, it's very good.
TheresaI was like, he got you, he read you like a damn book. He's good.
KipJust as lost as ever.
TheresaYeah, yeah. You don't know what to do, can't find anything, and you've come to me for answers, yeah. And I'm clearly not gonna give them to you. I'm just gonna fuck with you some more.
KipExactly. So that was good. And then I mean, like, okay, so I don't really know. My notes are not totally in sync with the timeline of the show. That's fine. But uh I totally the the second bullet I have is I totally forgot about Kate possibly being pregnant.
AmandaWe we said that so we watched the episode together, which we don't always do as we say, but today we did. And at one point I I said to Teresa, because we don't usually talk during it because obviously we're paying attention. And Teresa's making notes.
TheresaI'm making notes, I'm doing points.
AmandaSo I don't norm we don't normally talk, but I I did actually say, I'm like, what's this her being pregnant thing? I had forgotten about it first. But I guess when they had slept together, because the whole like you're still mad about me about the pregnancy thing. I was like, why was she mad at him? And I think she made like some sort of dumb joke about like not wanting her to be pregnant or something like that.
TheresaI honestly don't remember because I was like, was this a concern?
KipLike when, how long, when well, is this back to the cages?
TheresaI was like, that's the last time they porked, right?
KipLike what'd you say? Roll around when they roll around, yeah.
TheresaI think that's the last time.
KipPorked?
AmandaPorked porked each other in the chaps, yeah.
TheresaThat's from something I can't remember from what though.
KipProbably family guy, but anyway, yeah, like I no, there was a tent, there was a tent moment as well. I thought they didn't do it. No, they did. I think they well no, I don't know. There's been several close calls for sure.
TheresaYeah, because I remember her going in the tent, and he's like, whoa, slow down, and then she got angry and like walked away.
KipYeah, but yeah, for sure the cages, yeah, definitely. So, like, is this what we're supposed to believe? That like, I mean, I guess technically that was not long ago, but still, I totally forgot about this potential pregnancy thing.
TheresaYeah, same.
KipIt hasn't been brought up in a while.
AmandaYeah, it's yeah, and like this idea, like that she's mad at him for not like, and I know they actually right now they're just kind of like talking around it. Later they're gonna actually have a conversation about it. But this idea that she's mad at him because he doesn't want to get a woman he barely knows pregnant on a deserted island in the middle of the South Pacific where there's war zones happening around them. Like, yeah, he's he's the bad guy.
KipHe's the bad guy. What a douchebag.
AmandaAnd like if it's about the sensitivity to which he approaches the situation, like she does know who he is. Exactly. Yeah, I mean that must seem like a weird plot point for them to still be kind of at odds about. Same.
KipYeah, agreed. Yeah, it was very strange.
AmandaBut it was obviously just to drive this notion forward of like, oh, she's off the island and has this mysterious son. Yeah, on island, her and Sawyer are talking about this baby pregnant, bullshit. Um and then later we're gonna find out that Jack doesn't want to meet the baby, so obviously it's Sawyer's baby.
KipYeah, and to me, it just yeah, it speaks to why this episode is not great because it's like all these like stupid plot devices they're putting forward to just get to like make people think these things that are just gonna be non-existent.
AmandaWell, what kind of piss me off in this one is like the payoff is so immediate, like the lack of payoff, I should say, is so immediate because it's not even a full episode we go under this premise, right? Like by the end of the episode, you know it's Aaron.
KipYeah.
AmandaSo why did we go to so many lengths of these? Like, even if it had been like one or two more episodes.
KipYeah, exactly.
AmandaOf like, show us the baby, and we're like, what? And then like one episode or two episodes later, we find out it's Aaron. I would like be a little bit more satisfied with this, like you know, red herring of bit being Sawyer's baby, but there's no chaos.
KipNo, exactly. It was just totally I don't know, it didn't it failed for me. The same.
TheresaAnd I feel like they hit us in over the head with it. Like it was all, it was like every other scene was like talking about some baby, and we're like okay, clearly something's up with this
The Trial That Breaks Belief
Theresababy.
KipSo let's go into flash forward. Okay, the trial.
TheresaCatherine.
AmandaHey, look, I'm just gonna say about this. We can talk about the actual plot points of it. I will just say I normally don't ever we don't ever talk about our day jobs here. I won't don't plan on really ever again, but I did go to law school. That's all I'll say about it. This trial made me want to jump out of a building. And I get it, like it's a TV show. I'm not an idiot, I don't expect TV shows to show us the reality of a situation. Just like I'm sure not every moment that Jack's operating is perfectly like medically correct either. But you know what they do? They have him wear a mask and hold a scalpel while he's doing it, which is as silly as an example as that is, it's basically not what they did with the trial. Like that trial was terrible, like terribly done.
KipThere's there's so bad. Many moments online that specify why this trial would be thrown out of court. Like there's at least a half dozen of moments, and it's it's not very long. Like the trial itself, like in court, it's a few minutes of the show, really, but there's so many moments where like that would get it caught thrown out, that would get it thrown out, that would get it thrown out.
Amanda100%, and like first of all, this shock the the one thing I think they did get right is no judge on the planet is letting that woman out on bail, like at all.
KipA hundred percent.
AmandaHe's like, sorry, like I'm like, did did you tell her she might get out? Because that was terrible client management because she literally is the epitome, like what he said about her being the epitome of a fight risk is like, yeah, I'd say so.
TheresaWhen they listed her fucking charges, my god, like a scroll, like so long.
AmandaAlso, did you kind of think that they were like light based on what you actually there should have been more?
KipAnd thank you, Teresa, for pointing out like, yeah, okay, fine. What about the man she killed in the bank robbery, the guy she ran over fleeing from the hospital, all these people in her wake that have been lives destroyed, people killed, she should be in jail for the rest of her life.
TheresaYeah, yeah, on all this other shit.
KipYeah, never mind the first thing. Fine, she survived a plane crash. Okay, cool.
TheresaYeah, that doesn't that doesn't absolve you from sins.
AmandaIt's it's fine. Like it's like I was saying to Jason, like, that's not how they work, but who cares about that, right? Like the actual outcome of like her being rematted into custody makes total sense, right? Like, who would let that woman ever?
TheresaHis excuse of like she's got one of those famous faces. That's not a reason, sir.
AmandaAnd also certain that she was on like milk cartons or whatever the equivalent actually is in real life when she was a fugitive as well. Like they had marshals looking for her, like she wasn't exactly hiding, she's just good at it, right? She left the country, like there's no guarantee that she won't do it again or whatever. So that is frustrating. But really, the the thing, the the two things that drove me the most insane about this trial is why in the hell is her lawyer calling evidence or putting Jack on the stand before the prosecution has called any sort of case?
KipWell, that was one of the things they don't start. Yeah, that was one of the things they said was like, first of all, also in California. Yeah. Also, why are they doing the trial in California, first of all, when none of these things happened in California?
AmandaI even looked it up because I was like very curious. I was like, it was in Iowa. She killed her dad in Iowa. Yeah. So why the hell is this trial happening in LA?
KipYeah.
AmandaLike, and something that big, like some people might be like, well, you can cut get charges like that.
KipBut there was one federal charge, like the bank robbery should have been a federal charge, but still, everything else and the community and the like people there would want it heard in their communities.
AmandaLike that doesn't make any sense. Yeah. And then where why is her mom in LA? Like her mom is sick, and you're telling me you're gonna have the trial be out of the place she lives. I know, I know while she's sick, you're star witness. Like, you would never agree to that.
KipI know. We're we we we have to suspend belief somewhat in TV and movies. This was a stretch.
AmandaYeah, I think for sure the part that like drove me the most insane though was like because I understand the need to drive the plot forward and things like that. So I understand moving it to LA where she is, and then turn Jack and stay together and all that kind of stuff, right? But the idea that she had they had Jack testify is insane. Like, that is not evidence, like being like, Oh, after the fact she was a better person, and like the judge is giving like an instruction to the jury, like, just remember they didn't meet until after. It's like, yes, so why does he get to testify in her? Like, character evidence is very rare in a trial, and of that nature, like it would be very questioned. The only part about that that I found believable is when she cross-examined her and she's like, Are you in love with him or in with her? I actually think she would ask that because she'd would be trying to tell the jury, don't trust what she's saying because he's in he's in love with her. So it's he's biased, exactly. But this idea that why would they even call evidence before because I was really confused about that because he said, like, oh, you're they're opening stock, so I had to do this. And it's like, they're opening, like what evidence did they call? And they obviously wanted to have Jack say all these things about that, right? But I think that the and then have her mom not testify because either have her mom testify, have it be a strong case, and then have Jack do all of this, or cut out the jack stuff and all that stuff. That juxtaposition with Jack could happen in a different way, yeah. But like I think it would have been more like emotionally resonant to just have it focused on like her and her mom and how her mom because that happens all the time. People don't want to show up and whatever, right? But like just have it be that, have her and her mom have that moment. Like, why did Jack have to like be a part of it at all?
KipI feel like it should have just been between her and her mom. That would have been a good, but going a bit more like out of the box here. I feel like that speaks to how these showrunners really fucking drop the ball with Kate. Like, because they had to make it about her and Jack. It's always about her and Jack or her and Sawyer. They couldn't really make this about her and her mom, which would have been a much more dynamic story, much more meaningful, much more impactful. But they couldn't. They had to be about her and Jack. And it's like, okay, give her some dimension. Yeah, let her have a relationship outside of those two men that is meaningful to her personality, meaningful to her as a person.
AmandaAnd and Jack having to come in and be the hero, right? It's like we don't need Jack, does not need to be the hero here. Like, first of all, she is wrong, she is in the wrong. She there's every reason for her to be on trial, right?
KipThose charges. Oh my god.
AmandaAbsolutely. She has every right to fight it, she has every right to say she's not guilty, she has every right to want to like stay out of jail if she has this child. Nothing wrong with that, but like Jack should just have fucking stayed out of it.
KipYeah, it was missed.
AmandaAnd this idea, like, oh albeit I do understand that we get again some more Easter eggs about what happened in terms of this lie. Yeah, that they're clearly. But again, I think there could have been a different device for that.
KipThere could have been like, let's okay, there's a news feature.
TheresaYes, I was just thinking Dr.
KipJack Shepard, you were on the you survived this plane crash with this woman who's been now on trial for all these things. Like, what would you say to her? Who who is she? Like, what can you tell us about her? Oh, she saved all those people. I wouldn't be alive if it wasn't for her, like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, like there could have been another way.
TheresaYeah, I agree.
AmandaThat would have been such that's such a good exact idea of what they could have done instead. Because I was thinking about that. I'm like, there had to have been another way, and I couldn't think of something that would have been perfect.
KipCNN would have been all over this. Exactly.
AmandaBecause in the US, they the media loves that. Exactly. And so that what a what a better plot device that would have been. But then you don't get the hero moment because they're always about this.
KipExactly.
AmandaIt becomes about their relationship. So then she doesn't get to dramatically stand up and say, stop, because obviously she doesn't want him to lie.
KipWhich also, like I'm sorry, but as a jury, you see this woman, like this this. Man is talking about how great she is, and she's like, Stop saying these things. Would you be like, Okay, what's that that sus?
AmandaThis whole thing sucks.
KipThe whole thing. What's why is she saying that?
AmandaYeah, it's like obviously something's wrong.
KipExactly.
AmandaSo that that whole thing was very frustrating. But I wish that whole scene was just out of it. I wish it they had written it the way you did, Kip, and just in this like two seconds, too. Like they had like seasons of plot device development, and you're like sitting here and like off the cuff, already come up with a better storyline because the stuff with her mom was really compelling, especially after all the like times that she did turn her in and all that stuff to have her kind of come and be like thinking you were dead, like change my home and me being dead. Like, that's so nice.
KipI know it could have been so beautiful, yeah.
AmandaSounds frustrating.
KipUm, the yeah, the trial was dumb. The whole thing. It could have been much better, and and it is sort of known that that is a weak spot in the history of Lost. Like this episode isn't well regarded. The trial is very like weak, weak, weak. Yeah, you know, so whatever it is what it is. We've got to move past it.
AmandaI'd be curious if we had any American listeners who like knew the American legal system. 10 years probation is insane. Like, that's an insane amount of probation. I wonder if that's like common down there, but like, like I guess for getting like what did she actually end up with? The other thing that drove me nuts about it, the only last thing I'll say about it is that she never would have been present for those conversations between the prosecutor and her defense lawyer. Yeah, sure. Like no prosecutor is gonna want to sit across from the actual like accused person and have like what would you want to? Like, I can't again. I don't, I don't know, I'm not an American, I'm not an American prosecutor. I don't practice law in the states or know anything about it, but that just common sense wise, like what and even on other TV shows, you can see that lost stuff. But it's just if you had to be there.
KipBig lawyer TV show, law in order. Well, no, not law in order. Practice? No, oh man. The other one that you love. Suits, yeah.
AmandaWell, they don't really, I don't think that's overly accurate either.
KipOh, okay.
AmandaI don't like that's the thing, it's like again, because people are gonna be like, it's a TV show, who cares? It's like it I don't care, and whatever it is, what it is. I mean, I care enough, but like to me, it was if it served the storyline, I can suspend belief like on almost anything.
KipThat's the thing, it was all just to get to that final scene of like she suddenly suddenly cares for this child of hers, this baby, quote unquote, who is a full grown child. And we just need to get to this moment, and also it was to get to that Jack and Kate scene in the garage, which also could have happened without a courtroom scene.
AmandaShe could have he could have called her, she could have called the whole the trial, none of the trial or like lack of trial in the end turned on Jack, actually. In the end, it all turned came down to yeah, her mom not wanting to participate, yeah, and then them striking a deal, which I assume is very common in American jurisprudence.
KipWhen you hear that list of charges, it was such a good summary of so many of the things you we have said about Kate. Like she has done a lot of bad shit. We cannot ignore that. No, this is a character who's been written and has done a lot of really dangerous, really bad shit that has gotten a lot of people in trouble, ruined a lot of lives, killed people. People are dead because of the choices she's made. And to hear it listed out and read out in court there, it's like, wow, why shouldn't she pay for these things?
TheresaThe idea should yeah, the idea that she's like, I want no jail time, I have a child. Come on. Now, especially knowing now who the child is. Yeah, bitch. Are you willing to tell me you killed two people, did all this bad stuff, but because you stole, I'm assuming stole a child, you now uh that doesn't matter.
KipGet a get it, get out of jail free card. Yeah, that's not how life works. No, no, no, no, no.
AmandaI think it would be more like I I understand, I think, what they're going for. I think this episode and the storylines in it should have been spread across more than one episode. Because this idea that she completely turned around her idea on children, even though even that was that was also weird, okay, kind of weird in the flash or in the on island too, because she's clearly, I don't like babies, I don't want to touch a baby, but I'm mad that Twitter doesn't want to have a baby with her.
TheresaIt made no sense.
AmandaIt's like, Kate, you don't want a baby either. You're so confusing. And then we're supposed to see that all of a sudden everything's changed for you. And I think that's what they were trying to show us with how she was dealing with these charges is I I'm a changed person. I have a child, my whole perspective on life is changed. And that happens, but because of how she went about it in the episode, I still don't care for her. Yeah. Like I don't, I don't care, like, oh my God, yeah, she now she understands. Like there was no real self-awareness or like reckoning with herself. It was more just like more of the same, just get me out of this. I want this over with. I'll take whatever I can, even though it's something that's actually pretty good for me.
TheresaLike, I just the the whole time I was just rolling my eyes and like okay, like I just I don't know how it works. Like, you tell me, like, so she had she does have a list of charges. Sure. And their star witness is to talk about the man that she killed and the house she blew up.
AmandaIf she doesn't testify, why doesn't the rest of the charges get so that's what I think the conversation between the the DA and her defense lawyer was was that their main focus was going to be the first degree murder, understandably so, because that's gonna put her in jail for life if she's convicted. But and again, I I don't practice law in a way that is any way actually helpful to this from like an actual understanding. I'm and I'm not American, but my understanding about the American justice system is that it it turns significantly on plea plea deals and juries, and juries can just convict or acquit for whatever reason they want, they don't have to like follow the law. So I think the idea was that once they took the most serious thing off, that that conversation was about making a deal for because if they didn't have evidence on the other stuff, then they would have just had to drop everything. So they have evidence on the things you're talking about, Teresa, but then they want to make a deal on the things they have left.
TheresaOkay, but okay, so she also killed her first love.
AmandaWell, he died. I don't know that you can there was no intent on her part, like surely we don't know that.
TheresaWell, we well, it wasn't. I don't think there was intent.
AmandaWas it put he was in a bad position because of her? What about the bank one? That but they might not actually know she did that, they might not actually have evidence about that, right? So you do have to think about the fact that like what did they actually have evidence of and then make a deal on those?
TheresaIt sounds like a lot, Amanda. Well, I agree, it sounds like a fucking lot, and we're just like, oh, she'll be on probation. I agree. I'll take it. Bitch, please.
AmandaHe's like, no, I can get I'm like, you shut your mouth and you take that deal. That sounds like a great deal. Is a fraud alone in the states? Like, I don't again I'm not American, but I've heard they have crazy sentences down there for like everything. There's getting probation, that seems like yeah, and he'd be like, no, like when he was like trying to talk her out of it for a second, I can do better essentially. No, you can't.
KipThere's no way, there's no way no way, because this is insane.
AmandaLike, this is insane.
TheresaYou need jail time, yeah.
AmandaAnd like the whole idea of time served, like how how long could she have really been in just whatever the trial time was? Maybe six months. Was it even six months? Who took care of her baby?
KipYeah, we have no idea.
AmandaSo it was, I I can understand how like because again, I think most of the time, like when I watch a doctor's show, I'm like, whatever, this sounds good enough. And I'm I'm certain that like that's what most people, including myself, because again, I'm not an expert on this, I just have a legal degree. I I but this was even I think the common person. I think I watched Law and Order, I'm like close enough, not really, but like the common person.
KipThey took way too much leeway on this. 100% they made it like they were just like, oh, nobody's gonna care. It's just no, no, no, no, no.
AmandaAnd I just think my ultimate issue is when you have a show that at this point in time, all these theories about about it not being real, about it being this. When you take things and make them so unbelievable, it adds to that idea of like it's not real, it's a dream, it's a we're all dead, it's Kate's imagining, whatever it might be, taking such leeways with stuff adds to that narrative, which maybe they wanted, but what I think it ultimately was is that they just didn't have they didn't develop the story enough. They're like, we need to deal with her charges finally, because we need to move forward from this. Yeah. How do we do it in a way that doesn't see her go to jail for the rest of her life because she's done some of the worst stuff, and I am bothered by it the way I've been bothered by day one, which is why I said I can't come to this group with clean hands and say that I'm back on side with Kate is this episode, like you said, Kip lists out every issue she's had, and it's being juxtaposed against her still on the island trying to, she's still fucking stuff up for people to get her own information.
Kate’s Agenda And Locke’s Line In Sand
KipYeah, so let's let's switch gears to Yeah, because we get hated. Yeah, let's switch gears to On Island, which I don't know if we'll get less hated, to be honest. She was also annoying so on Island, like oh god. Let let's quickly talk about Kate and Sawyer. All right, so Kate makes it very clear she's not there for him, yes, makes it very clear she's not moving in with him, yes. She's Claire, yes. Claire says some weird thing. You should try being a mom. Yeah, while they're hanging the clock the sheets. Kate's like, I don't like babies. To your other point, Amanda.
AmandaLike I want one with Sawyer because she doesn't want one.
KipYeah, exactly. Like, so okay, mixed messages. What do you guys think of that? Like the Kate in the village moments here. I mean even beyond Kate, the village as a whole.
TheresaI mean, we're all acting like I mean, I get why everybody's acting kind of like like happy, like this is my new life, like thing. Like you kind of have to like move on from yeah, folding laundry. Exactly, right? Like the like you have to do something, right? Like you can't just sit around. So like it makes sense, but like Kate does not fit there. And like even from her like being there, like sitting with her, you can tell she's like itchy, like she like like can't sit still. Like this is just so outside of her like nature. And then of course she has an agenda as per usual, and she of course has to like drag Sawyer into it as per usual. Um, but yeah, I I get why everyone's just kind of like, yeah, we live in these houses. Woohoo! Because like, what else are you gonna do?
AmandaBut it's weird, it's weird, and it's like her, like it's so obvious that she had like when she goes to talk to Sawyer and he's like, You're gonna use me for something, just say like, Kate, like no one believes you're here just because you like wanna be here. Like you wouldn't have left Jack, you wouldn't have agreed to go with Jack and then change your mind. You have an agenda because you always have an agenda, everyone knows that, and it's always for some selfish reason.
KipSo, okay, so the reason is you say that, and I agree with you. She wants to find out if, like, basically, is she gonna be found out if she leaves? And it's like, what do you know about me? And she does this whole big fucking production, like, upscone with Miles, take him to Ben. We get some weird, which we'll talk about, Ben and Miles. But like, Kate, I think it's safe to assume they the world outside of this island knows who you are and what you've done. They had Marshalls looking for you in Australia.
AmandaThat ain't cheap.
KipNo. Do you really need to do this whole production? It felt I don't know. It felt dumb.
AmandaWell, it's just every if I just feel like we're always two steps forward, like five steps back with you. Like every time you think that maybe she's got some self-awareness, she's gonna deal with stuff, like, and again, I think that's where the episode failed her and the writers failed her, is like this idea of like if it they if there was, and again, I'm not a writer, you guys know more stuff about this. You've already written better parts of it, but this idea of like, how do we get it out there that she is finally willing to atone and move forward, but for the fact that now she has this responsibility she never anticipated having, and that's trumping this. I don't think that was clear enough. It wasn't believable, it wasn't believable as well. Everything we've always been stuck with with with Kate is just trying to get out of it. And the fact the last thing we heard from her on Island is her still doing that with Miles and Ben adds to that. So there's been no reckoning with herself, there's been no soul searching, no soul. No accountability, no accountability, no accountability.
KipShe's not actually not actually growing as a character.
AmandaNo, and I think the idea was she was supposed to, yes, and we're supposed to have been able to see that, and maybe we're supposed to just assume, but they didn't give us enough, and they didn't give her enough to work with to make that clear. So I still hate her because of that.
KipAnd it's so interesting to hear Evangeline Lilly talk about kind of this exact thing. Like, they really didn't write the character Kate very well. She was very one-dimensional, one note, and you see an episode like this, and you're like, Yeah, I get it. Because she kind of did her dirty. Yeah, like that.
TheresaYeah, oh, for sure.
KipLike it was pretty brutal. Like the the writing for her.
TheresaI think what could have happened is like if they really want to like drive home that like Kate and Jack, whatever, whatever, like have make them have a conversation where she realizes that now that she's a parent, yes, she needs to take accountability for the thing she's done. And it's hard and it hurts because it means that she might lose her son. Right. Yes. And then if you want to do the whole like, whose kid is it? Then be like, I wish you could meet him, and then have him be like, I can't, and then just be done with it. But like, she's I I find it hard to believe that as a parent, she's raising a child, knowing she's done all of this with no consequence. Yeah. And no accountability. You would teach your kid that then essentially, which I don't think she would do. You would think that she would have that growth to be like, I have a kid, I'm I want a better life for him. I want him to be a good person. I was trying to be a good person and I didn't go about it the right way. How can I change that for my child?
AmandaOr just because we do start out with her like in the car, willing to go in. So she's facing it, but then it's this idea that like what I think, building on what you're saying, Trace, is this idea of like I was ready to do this. My because obviously she still gets off the island knowing that Miles knows and everyone knows. We don't know what happens yet exactly, but we know that she still leaves. So the idea being she is ready to face it in some way. She gets saddled or takes or whatever you want to say with Aaron. I don't know, we don't know yet, but then she has responsibility. So say that be like, I was willing to take responsibility for this, but I just I can't, he can't lose another parent. He can't, whatever it might be. Like have that conversation with Jack because they're trying to keep this mystery around and trying to try and do too much. Exactly. In doing so, they've like ruined this episode for her. This could have been like her big moment, and I remembered it incorrectly because in my mind, she got the it was more about her taking accountability, and then because of what she'd done, and because she was taking accountability, she got like a really good deal. That's how I remembered it, but that's not what it was. The biggest charge that would have was the worst for her went away, which is common, I'm sure. But the the police stuff alone would have probably netted her like some time.
KipAnd there's no fucking way they're gonna give up serious sentences down there. Bank robbery, mowing over a cop in a car, like drugging a cop in Florida, which I don't even think they mentioned.
TheresaYeah, no, she's got she's got a whole list of other things, right? Like who that poor guy in Australia with the fake arm who that would be old.
KipNo, but I mean like so much more. Second episode of the series, I think, if I'm remembering, is the Kate episode. Yeah, I think episode two of Lost is Kate Walkabout and then Right.
AmandaYes. Uh or is it walk about I can I can solve this.
KipOkay, yes.
TheresaI went too far. The second episode is after the pilot, I should say, because part one, part two. Yeah. Um yeah, uh I think I I mean it doesn't say that it's a Kate episode, but it does talk about Tilbula Rasa.
KipYeah, that's the Kate episode.
AmandaYeah, yeah.
KipSo second episode, basically, is Kate running and not wanting to take accountability for anything she's done. Here we are. I don't know what episode of Lost This is. 72. But we're this is the 72nd episode of our podcast, not necessarily of the series. Oh, but like deep season four, episode four. Yeah, she's still not wanting to take accountability for anything she's done. So where's the growth?
AmandaYeah, and the fact that she won't so and any growth that I think they muddled off island because of just poor writing, poor development, poor whatever, or whatever you want to think of it for it, like whatever that may be. They have done no favors by showing us the on-island stuff.
KipYeah, exactly.
AmandaThey needed to separate it more because what we have is her not going to unlock or Sawyer even and saying, I need to know what Miles and the Freighter knows. Just like you all want to know. Exactly. We all want to know what the freighter knows. So can I go talk to Miles? I'm gonna say what I need to say to him, and then I mean, I guess she did go to John and try to talk to say she wanted to talk to Miles after the fact. But no, she didn't so did she.
KipYeah, it was, yeah.
AmandaBut she didn't tell him why. No, exactly. She told him why and had a conversation. And I get no one trusts anyone at this point. But it's like instead of getting what she wanted the right way, she went behind everyone's back and risked things, right? She risked Miles' life, she risks Ben's life, she risks her own life, she risked Sawyer's life, she risked the kind of tenuous structure this little weird village has. I did for information for herself.
KipFor herself, exactly. That's that selfish aspect. I did appreciate how Sawyer went about this. Same. Because he was like, I can't put myself in jeopardy. I'm gonna help you, Freckles, but I can't let John Locke know that I'm helping you. So he tells him what's happening, is very smart. Good old Sawyer.
TheresaI was like, Oh, he's brilliant. I'm like, oh my god, he's double cross, he's he's cross double crossing her. I'm like, wait, no, he's not.
KipBut he told her this was what he was gonna do for sure.
TheresaI like kept going back and forth forth because I was like, oh my god, he's telling John. No. Oh my god, poor Kate. Wait, no, he wouldn't do that to Kate. But like, wait, what's happening? And then I was like, okay, you're smart. You're smart man.
KipLet's let's go beyond Kate. Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about the other stuff because we've spent a lot of time on Kate
Miles, Ben, And The $3.2 Million Play
Kipalready. I think our feelings are very known. So, Ben. Ben's great.
TheresaBen was really good in this episode, I found.
KipThoughts on Ben this episode.
TheresaHe needs more nutrition, he needs carbs, he needs more than just a piece. He ate one piece of cantaloupe of one slice.
KipYou know, if he had just kept his mouth shut.
TheresaWell, you know what? John maybe shouldn't try to, you know, do the same thing over and over and over.
KipYeah, like you're gonna be like, oh, I've changed. I'm bringing you food because I'm a good person, and you're not gonna get in my head anymore. Oh, you got in my head. I'm taking your food away, and I'm gonna throw it against the wall.
TheresaHe just it's like an open invitation to like fuck around with his brain. Um but I forgot what I was gonna say next time.
KipUm so Ben, yeah, we have that short interaction with him and John. He's really not in it that much, and then he's we see him with Miles a bit later.
AmandaSo the Miles stuff is interesting because this idea that Miles is a sketch bag, yeah. Well, no, for sure. But this first of all, the 3.2 was funny. Yeah, it was funny. Why not 3.3? Why not 3.4? Um, but this idea that Miles is going to try and get something out of Ben is very interesting, especially because he seems to know a lot about Ben. Yeah, there is no fucking way he thinks this is gonna work. Like Ben is 10 steps ahead of this, obviously.
KipI found it interesting, Miles' line of don't treat me like one of them points to Kate, like I don't know who you are. Yeah, I loved that line because it makes us think like, whoa, who the fuck is this guy?
AmandaYeah, yeah. And why does my why do these yeah I I keep going back to the same thing we talked about last time, which is this is such a weird array of individuals. Yeah, it's so impossible. Even knowing what happens, I'm still like because like how are you ever to guess or anticipate their motivations when you have of what we've seen so far is literally such different people that are all together? Like, why and what are they like? Is everyone in the same way as Miles is? Charlotte and Veraday don't seem to be. Yeah, Lapitas just seems to be out to lunch, like just there for like whatever. Um, yeah. So what is what's Miles' angle here? Who is this person that hired them? And like, do you just can can we know all of this?
KipLike, oh it's can we talk spoilers for a second?
TheresaOkay, so spoilers for me too.
AmandaProbably not technically, but we've seen the whole series. We can't be held responsible for yours.
KipIf you're listening and you don't want any spoilers, just maybe skip ahead 30 seconds. So Miles saying, Uh I'll tell him you're dead. Okay, we know it's Widmore.
AmandaCorrect.
KipSo who sent the freighter? Who sent these these people after Ben? Does he really believe Widmore's just gonna take his fucking word for it?
AmandaI know.
KipLike, come on.
AmandaI hope that three point two million is including you hiring Kate to help you hide for the next ten years.
KipBecause also he has a lot of money. He's gonna spend a lot more than three point two million.
AmandaHe can find this fucking island, he can find you.
KipExactly. Like that was dumb. Yeah. Okay. I agree. I agree. So that just bugged me. Same.
AmandaAnyway, back to Miles just being like over, like I don't know what we're supposed to believe about him right now. Is he opportunistic? Is he stupid? Is he just is he gonna is he double cross? Like it's it's so hard to know. We don't know them enough, I guess. But I didn't think it made sense to try to buy off Ben.
KipWell, and this I don't know. Do we find I don't remember? Do we find out why that number specifically $3.2 million?
TheresaYeah, so I don't know if that's a a reason, if we get a very reasonable uh explanation for that, but I just thought it was a little bit weird because we have two prisoners talking about essentially a plan while being that they have probability to actually. Yeah, exactly. Like when Ben actually said, like, I'm on a bit of a predicament, yeah, bitch, you are. You're stuck in a hole. They're not they're feeding you and you're not allowed to come out. But also, Miles, you are also in a predicament, sir. So when are you going to tell whoever him is that he is dead if you are now in a boathouse with a grenade in your mouth?
KipI mean, I think Ben, like we've said many times, he's 10 steps ahead. I think he already knows how he's getting out of this. And I think we just don't know, and I think Miles knows that. And I also think Miles sees the bigger picture. He doesn't quite believe these island folk are as smart as they think they are. Okay. Because he's probably coming at this from a thing, you guys aren't really consequential. I'm here for Ben. That's why that makes sense. So that's kind of my take.
AmandaAnd literally, I had the exact flowing thought process between the two. Like I started the way you were thinking, Teresa, why? And then I got to where you were kind of thinking. So I do think that is what it is. It's like Miles trusts that Ben is has a plan for all of this. And so when he figures it out, give me 3.2 million, and I walk away, and you walk away. Because he says, Well, let the other stuff fall where it may.
KipExactly. Okay, that makes sense. I know who you are. Don't treat me like one of them.
TheresaYeah, because I was like, You a prisoner, you a prisoner, you have a plan.
AmandaIt is funny.
KipYeah, it is funny.
AmandaYeah, you guys are talking like y'all are doing much of anything.
TheresaYeah, you guys are talking like you're walking around free.
KipSo, um, okay, yeah, Kate's plan to find out if Miles knows, but hers seems like a stretch. Like, obviously, they know. I don't like John Locke, but I liked when he told Kate she wasn't welcome there anymore.
Theresa100%. You can't just do whatever you want, now willy-nilly, be free and prisoners left and right, and dupe and the quote unquote leader, and then assume that you're just gonna go to bed at night.
AmandaAnd swoopy giving Hurley.
TheresaYeah, like that's first of all, fucking rude. Yeah, poor poor man.
AmandaAnd I don't like that they always make him kind of like they make him stupid. He's just simple is probably I don't know what the right word is. I would say simple is trusting, he's too trusting. I don't like that they always make him the kind of fool.
KipThe full the fall guy.
TheresaYeah, which is like not cool. And like when Sawyer's like Hurley knows, everybody knows.
AmandaI mean fair and Locke's yeah, okay, because like that was a good one.
KipI I was nervous that Locke or yeah, Locke was gonna do something to Hurley, but I'm like, don't no hurry, it's not his fault. But that didn't happen.
TheresaYeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't like that she like targeted him, like it's oh gosh.
KipI mean, I think she just targeted him because he was bringing him the food, right? Well, she had to take the phone.
TheresaNo, I know, but it's just kind of like when she when she saw him, I was like, here we go.
KipLike so, like, I like Sawyer and Hurley are roommates. I would watch that spin-off 100%. Like, be so good.
TheresaI want to know how they ended up being roommates. There's a plethora of houses to choose from, and you decided to live together.
KipI mean, I'm sure that group is not that big. There's enough houses for all the people. Yeah, you know what I mean?
AmandaLike, yeah, I just want to be buddies.
TheresaAnd like, I mean our like just wants to read. You know what I mean? Like, they're lucky they found a two-bedroom. You know what I mean?
AmandaLike that was such a good idea. I would watch it all day. I I also did like that. That made sense. Locke seemed to find his footing by the end of the episode a little bit, right? Like he starts off because he let someone in his head again. He starts off very shaky, and the stuff, and even then kind of talking to Sware and be like, Am I doing a good job? It's like why does he I that didn't track for me? Yeah, right.
KipVery strange.
AmandaBut then by the end of it, I do like with that. I think starting with like I would say the same thing to Kate if I were him. I would have said the exact same thing. I'd be like, You're get get out of here, you're fucking around. Yeah, no one wants you here.
KipAnd after he literally said, You might think this because of the way Jack ran things. This is not a democracy. Yeah, I run the show, basically. So she she went behind his back, and sorry, but Jack Locke doesn't have dough eyes for her the way Jack does. She can't just get away with shit.
AmandaAnd I think that's why she was like kind of like put off by it. It's because it's like, what?
KipLike I'm used to getting away with whatever I do. Yeah, exactly.
AmandaAnd yeah, it's like, yeah, because the other two main protagonists of this world are in love with you.
TheresaYeah.
AmandaRight?
TheresaAnd then she never has to face consequences.
AmandaBut I did think it was cute when she went to talk to Sawyer and Sawyer's like, well, I unbanish you. Like you can see here.
TheresaOh my god, I like fell in love with him. That's why it was annoying when he was like, Is it is it that uh I'll protect you stuff? I was like, You ruined it when they were about to when they were started roll around, and he's like, Did I get you with that I'll protect you stuff? And I was like, You got me with it. Like roll around, yeah. That was sad. That was annoying. That was just like ew.
The Freighter Problem And Faraday’s Hint
KipWe didn't even talk about anything on the beach. I mean, there's really not much there. No, other than the.
AmandaWell, there was though. There's like a huge thing.
KipWell, okay, yes, you're right. There was two.
AmandaI think two things we have to talk about that are important to the storyline that we kind of got lost in everything else. First of all, is what Jack actually did say when he was on the stand. Jack on the stand says, because I think obviously he was there to help Gate, but like what he's actually there for is to tell us that eight people survived. No, he said eight.
KipOh, did he? Oh, that's right.
AmandaAnd the mar because the first thing he says is that the marshal died in the crash. I'm like, and I for and I'm like, oh yeah, he's like saying that to um cover up the fact that like the marshal was alive and what and then he says the eight people or whatever, and then it's like well, that's just not true at all. So now we know for sure that there has been this lie perpetrated, not just about who survived long enough to get off the island, but that yeah, lots of lies.
KipEverything he said on the stand was a lie. He died it. So is that is that perjury? Is that what that's called?
Amanda100%, but how would you prove that?
KipYeah, so anyway, he's a liar.
AmandaGod's mad, God's mad and the God's mad? Did he s did he swear on the Bible? I don't remember.
TheresaHe swear, um, so help you, God, or something.
KipAnd then you have to swear on a Bible.
AmandaUh no.
KipI will lie if I swear on a Bible.
AmandaWell, I don't, I mean, it wouldn't say that either way, because even if you swear on the Bible, it doesn't make your oath to the court any less legal. Okay. But you have the option of swearing on the Bible or affirming to tell the truth. But I will just affirm. So instead of that, you would say, I pro do you promise to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Yes, I will say yes. And you don't add the so helpful.
KipIf you say no, do they just take you out? Like if you say someone said no, you would just not be able to say anything.
AmandaYeah, but like don't think that that's gonna get you out of hell to testify one day. Like they would still just find a way.
TheresaGet to step and I mean, I don't know.
AmandaI've I've never heard of that happening. Maybe it would be.
KipI'd like to see that happen.
AmandaYeah, I wouldn't.
TheresaI'm just I'm just I want to see it happen just because I'm curious.
KipI know, same. Why not?
TheresaSure, yeah, like get past that. Do the get out, like all right, you can go.
AmandaOh shit. Well, that's like in jury selection, like you see on TV. People be like, okay, like do you have any reason why you like can't do this or whatever? And they're like, I won't be impartial. I hate all criminals, and like people are like, Okay, well, good luck. Like, they like think that if they say stuff like that, they'll get out of getting to do it.
KipAnd it's like not totally true, not completely true.
AmandaAnd everyone would just do that, right?
KipExactly.
AmandaNo one wants to be a witness, no one wants to be except for Jack. Yeah, Jack was like really quick to perjure himself.
KipSo then beach. We get to the beach. I know so uh is what you're talking about um the fact that nobody showed up on the freighter yet?
AmandaCorrect.
KipBecause like, yeah, that is huge. You're right.
AmandaKind of important, that's a big deal, kind of a big deal.
KipAnd there's a a minor thing with like um what's his name?
TheresaDaniel.
KipDaniel Faraday, where he couldn't remember cards and he was like frustrated. Yeah. So, like, what's going on there? That's a small hint we'll hear more about later.
AmandaYeah, so that like they've they left yesterday and they're not on the freighter when it should be like a 20-minute half an hour ride. So that's scary.
KipAnd the fact that Daniel Faraday did say last episode, like, follow this coordinate exactly. So it's like, ooh, what went wrong?
AmandaYeah. Um, but then this because it's cute, we have the little son and yeah, Jen.
KipThis is the first time Jen's talked, like literally in since last season.
TheresaSo cute, but he's like, You mean our baby?
KipI know, awkward.
TheresaMa'am.
KipAnd then they were interrupted.
AmandaAnd then Juliet's there for like five seconds because clearly she had some sort of episode order for the season. They're like, here you go.
TheresaYeah, but she was also hilarious. She's like, Maybe you should try to. Oh, she's the best. Maybe you should try a number another number, like 911. She always has a good line.
AmandaShe's the best. She she's a well-written female character. I love her. You know, just kind of going back to you how you had brought up that Tabula Raza was the second episode. What a I like what a nice start, like thinking we're gonna get this strong female character like off the gate, and that they care about like that character enough to make her the first focus of like what becomes a very important like um trope for the show, right? And then they've just done her so dirty. So I I it it's unfortunate. I I feel like if they did a reboot, which I'm not advocating for.
KipI am, I'd like a reboot.
AmandaLike a reboot of like the same storyline, or like oh yeah.
KipI mean, I would, but I'm just saying, like I'd I'd watch a reboot and uh spin-off. A spin-off. I'd watch it all.
AmandaYeah, I mean, I would watch it. They could literally feed me like an animated series written by like teenagers, and I'd be like, I'll take it in.
KipThat would be weird. Not teenagers. I'd watch an animated series written by adults.
AmandaWell, maybe if the Firefly one is um Is there a Firefly animated show coming out? Yep, they're just trying to find a network right now. Why are we why?
KipI like that Firefly.
AmandaOh, me too, I love it. No, I'm not sure. But is that successful?
KipWhy are we animating it?
AmandaBecause I think the characters are just like because the actors are set it back in the same like kind of time frame and just have different stories and different music.
TheresaOh, okay, that makes sense. Everybody's old.
AmandaUm and it's less of a commitment for the actors who have like other stuff like that. So maybe if that's successful, then we can do the lost one.
KipI'd watch it.
AmandaUm, but nonetheless, like hopefully if they do a reboot, they'll do a better job with Kate or whatever character. I think they would.
KipI think in this day and age they'd have to. Yeah. I think they really fucked it up.
AmandaBut but Juliet, I think, is actually a a relatively well-developed female character.
KipLove her.
AmandaSun has her moments, Claire. But um, yeah, that uh where are they? Are they gone? Are they dead? Are they whatever?
KipThat was sort of like a little bit of a mic drop that just sort of like went nowhere.
AmandaI mean why aren't they more concerned?
KipAnd then they have this emergency number to call the freighter. Like, and then just the same person picks up and is just like, why'd you call them this number?
TheresaYeah, pardon me, it's like she's just sitting in a room with two phones. Yeah, like one's red, one's black.
KipBut yeah, that's it in a nutshell. And the cliffhanger crazy thing at the end is just that it's Aaron.
TheresaOkay, I have so many questions about that, even. Like, how far are we from them getting off island at this point? If if Aaron is talking and talking. And I also want to know how like was she arrested when they got back?
KipUm, I think we do see we do see some of that.
TheresaOkay.
KipWe definitely see how she ended up being in court.
TheresaBecause like did they like arrest her? Yeah, and then they were like, You've had some traumas. Run be free for a while. No, there's there uh because she like because she has like a big house and like this huge house. Well, the the house plugging from money from some sort of settlement with ocean. Did she go? Did she go house shopping?
KipI mean, we're not gonna see all of that.
AmandaNo, but like when would I think so? Like, I think how would that be? Oh, okay. I also thought was interesting because again, I I I'm not American and it's very different. But I thought an arraignment in the US was when they say if they're guilty or not guilty. So I felt like that should have already all happened, and what happened at this stage would have happened at the arraignment. So when he said, I think maybe he meant more like you've been she's been out since her rearrest or something. The police could have just decided I I don't know why they would do this to like let her go for now because like maybe there was a lot going on with the plane, or maybe she should go to the doctors.
TheresaI think that's why I'm confused because if they're like if she's if they're like, oh, she's a flight risk and she's gonna be remanded, why wasn't she in jail the whole time? Yeah, that's a good question. But like I don't I don't really get that part. I think that's why I'm like confused as to how she's like so like established. Yeah, no, like I'm sure she would have gotten a settlement from Oceanic, but like the like living your life part is like if he like I don't get that part. That's tough.
KipI mean, I think they skirted a lot in this
Scores, Rankings, And The Constant Tease
Kipwriting. So but uh let's hear how these characters did, Teresa.
TheresaOh, there's been some movement.
KipI'm sure there has been.
TheresaI'm very excited to hear some movement. All right, at number 16, Benjamin Linus. Minus negative, not minus, negative 635. Then we at number 15 we have Miles with neg negative 125. Then we have Charlotte with negative 80, then Tide for number 12, we have Faraday and Lapidus with 50 apiece. At number 11, we have Juliet with 630, at number 10, we have Kate with 790, we have Claire at number nine with 880, Desmond at number eight with 935, Locke at number seven with 1,045, Sun at number six with 1,760, Jen at number 5 with 1,800, Jack at number 4 with 1,855, sorry at number 3 with 200 200. It's either 2,220 or 2,200. Okay. I'm either missing a zero or a two. I'm not sure. I think I'm missing a zero. Said at number two with two thousand seven hundred and sixty, and then Hurley are King, still number one, one thousand or three thousand one hundred and twenty.
KipHurley will always be number one. Hurley's number one at all. No way he's falling. Yeah. Okay, interesting.
TheresaI'm trying to find, I know one of the biggest shuffles was obviously Kate. Did she fall in this episode? She did fall. Because she was above Claren Desmond, and now she's below them. Roots. Because honestly, you got a list of crimes, girl, and you're just walking off Godfree. No.
AmandaKnowing all that, what what does that net you for a ranking for the episode?
TheresaI gave it a 7.5. I was very we I mean, we've we've heard it in this discussion, right? Like, just a lot of things like don't really make sense. I think that poor Kate could have had a very different uh situation this episode. And we still could have gotten that like, oh my god, it's Aaron thing at the end without it being so like. So yeah, that's where I'm at.
AmandaWell, this episode fails, like the Bektal test or whatever it's called, for the like women not talking about men or two men um significantly, even for an episode that is about a woman's issues. Um, it's terrible. I give this like a four. Like, I think I know, I just I think it's so poorly done in terms of her development and the fact like that Kip could sit here and write the episode better without like putting in four previous seasons of thought into it, just shows that they don't care enough to have the episodes make sense for her. And again, the fact that the on-island stuff is so exactly the same type of behavior that we've seen from her before. Mirrored with that off-island stuff, it's like they don't care to. Like they had the opportunity to make it better with the mom, they had the opportunity to make it more about her development as this newfound parenthood, but instead they made it about um her lack of accountability and Jack attempting to be her hero yet again.
KipYeah, I tried to split it, look at it in three ways. The flash forward, the on-island village, and the on island beach. And I think what it came to was like the lock stuff annoyed me because lock's annoying, but I thought it was like good lost content.
AmandaYeah.
KipUm, anything with Kate in the village was annoying to me. Yes. The beach stuff was minimal, but it was alright.
TheresaYes.
KipAnyway, all that being said, I give it a five. Like, it was not it even as like I think it just I think it was lazy.
TheresaI think so.
KipLike just lazy writing. It's not, it's not the best. It's like short, these creators of the show are very successful. They've done a lot of stuff since Lost, but it's been great. The stuff they did on Lost was great. This one just was not really good.
AmandaThey've definitely hit some sort of plateau here, or they whatever it is. They're just known for being well written.
TheresaBut it's like with Kate, it's like they just don't care. They don't care. And it's like, ugh, it's just sad. Yeah. It's sad, it's sad that like everybody's had such growth so far. Like, even just looking at Sawyer, like then and now, is like two different people in the era.
AmandaEven if you look at the the growth Locke had from the beginning of this episode to the end of this episode. Like he starts out all like madic and upset and like vulnerable, and he comes out so strong at the end. But they can do that for him in one episode. They can't do that for Kate over four seasons. Yeah, she's still the same.
KipStill the same.
AmandaSo let's just We love you, Evangeline Lily, though. You're great.
KipQuickly be like, okay, we we are ready for next week. Because holy fucking shit.
AmandaOh. It is time. What are you talking about? It is time.
KipTeresa, I have two words for you. The constant. Already? Shit. You guys, it's you're the dichotomy of extreme proportions.
AmandaIt's like from fucking hell to heaven. Like you guys.
TheresaWe are the amount of thinking about it. Like honestly. I don't like it. Good lord. Not weeping from me. Just to be clear. Weeping from Amanda. And probably. Oh yeah. The both of them.
KipYou don't tear. You'll tear. See you next week.
AmandaBye.