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Let's Get Lost with The Oceanic Three
We're your Oceanic Three: Theresa, Amanda, and Kip. Join us as we get in-depth about our favourite television show - Lost! We talk about everything: The Island, The Survivors, The Tailies, The Others, The Myths, The Theories, and on and on and on, but we also talk about how Lost changed the television landscape when it came out and how it still reverberates to this day.
Most of all, though, we always come back to how Lost is primarily a character-driven show. For every myth and mystery, five incredible character stories were told. They were complex, mysterious, beautiful, and sometimes challenging to watch - but the characters and their interwoven lives brought Lost to a different level unlike anything ever seen on television.
We would love it if you joined us as we get in-depth about all the Losties, what makes them tick, why they do what they do, and ultimately - what they're doing on the Island.
Let's Get Lost with The Oceanic Three
Let's Get Lost 73 - Season 4: The Constant
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
A helicopter ride hits turbulence and suddenly Desmond Hume is living in two times at once, and we’re right there with him trying to keep up. We sit down at the round table to talk Lost Season 4 Episode 5 “The Constant,” the episode that still tops “best Lost episode” lists, still pulls a 9.7 on IMDb, and somehow even shows up in serious conversations about nonlinear storytelling and time travel philosophy.
What makes it stick isn’t just the sci-fi twist. We get into Daniel Faraday’s rules for consciousness time travel, why “whatever happened, happened” keeps the plot from collapsing into branch timelines, and why the idea of a “constant” is the smartest emotional shortcut the show ever used. We also break down the freighter dynamics, the uneasy sense of competing factions, and why characters like Keamy and Widmore change the temperature of every scene.
Then we go straight for the heart: Desmond and Penny. We talk about how the episode earns a love story with remarkably little setup, why the phone call lands because it’s simple and direct, and how Michael Giacchino’s music turns a high-concept premise into something painfully human. If you’ve ever wondered why this single hour of television gets called a masterpiece, we make the case.
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Cold Open And The Big Claim
AmandaWe're three best friends, and we love lost, and we love talking.
KipBut even more so, we love talking about lost.
TheresaSo join us for some good conversation, laughs, and let's get lost together. No, no, okay.
KipTo be fair, we previewed this like 30 seconds ago. You were fine with it.
AmandaI was drinking and I didn't know. It's gonna stand. Well, that's quite the intro. Oh god. Wow, Kip, would you like Hello?
KipHello, everybody. All right, welcome to this week's episode of Let's Get Lost. It's me, Kip, and I'm joined by my fellow co-hosts. Right across from me is Teresa.
TheresaHi.
KipAnd to my left is Amanda.
AmandaHello.
KipWe're sitting here at the round table, ready to talk about lost, ready to talk about the one. This is it. I don't know if it gets much better than this.
AmandaI mean, I don't think almost everything that's ever been published about this show. It literally can't. We might as well just pack it up now.
KipIt is the constant.
AmandaWhy would we pack it up? It's just a figure of speech. Like we there's no point in going on. We've hit our peak. Because this is this is peak loss.
KipThis is the constant. Like it is constantly regarded as the top episode of Lost of All Time.
AmandaUm, and we're gonna talk about that, but just so we all know exactly what we're talking about, we are talking about season four, episode five, The Constant. Of course, written by Carlton Kews and Damon Lindelof. And of course, directed by the one and only Jack Bender. For an episode like this, it could not be anyone other than these three at the helm. Desmond and Saeed head towards the freighter in a helicopter when they hit some turbulence. In a flash, Desmond is back in basic training at his military base, and then just as quickly, he's back on the freighter. On the beach, Faraday frantically searches for his journal, and Jack wants to know why Desmond is suffering from side effects.
KipYeah.
AmandaOkay.
KipI mean, that's a pretty good synoptic.
AmandaIt's very good. Um this episode is literally the greatest episode of Lost. We all think that.
KipIt is.
AmandaUm, but I think it's very interesting to just remind everyone that it's not just us who thinks that. It is literally everyone. These are the kinds of headlines, even in 2026, when you search up this episode. It is on multiple, at least three, that I've seen so far today. Three top episodes of Lost, all three of them that have been published in the last couple years, still listed as the number one episode. Entertainment Weekly, even in 2018, had a headline that said The Constant turns 10, revisiting the great lost time twist episode a decade later. Um, Lost Best Episode is a television masterpiece that everyone should experience once. The best episode of Lost turns 15 today. Just numerous. It's it's always what happens every year around the time that it came out. They still talk about it.
KipYeah, yeah. And I I want to keep talking about this, but this very specific thing in a little bit because it plays part of my trivia for today. So I don't want to keep talking about it.
AmandaOkay, fair.
KipOkay, but you may so you may have a leg up on that.
TheresaWell, that's not fair.
AmandaYou good opportunity to research as well. No one stopped.
KipSo it is great. So yeah, here we are. What else?
AmandaI don't know. What else we got to say? What what let's let's tell us about the episode?
KipDo you want to know what this ranks on IMDB?
TheresaI assume 11 out of 10. I'm gonna say because some people are like, I'm gonna say like 9.7. I don't know if it'd be that high, would it?
KipYou are right, 9.7. Oh, that's very that's basically 10. I know, especially on IMDb.
AmandaYeah.
KipSo, and 12.89 million viewers. Uh, we had zero uh nicknames from Sawyer today.
AmandaWe didn't see a little Sawyer today.
KipWe did not and we are day 94 on the island.
AmandaWell, does that track? Does anyone ever like what day did they crash on? The 20.
KipWho?
AmandaThe Islanders. What day?
KipSeptember they did the day.
AmandaSo September 22nd to December 24th. Is that 94 days? I don't know. Sounds alright.
KipOctober, November. It's about three months. Yeah, that sounds alright. Yeah.
AmandaWoof. Crazy. It's crazy that it's only been 94 days.
KipI know. And four seasons. Okay, so are you ready for trivia?
Trivia On Ratings And Legacy
AmandaNo. Yes.
KipI have five questions. Oh.
AmandaIt's a good interview.
KipIt is. Okay. So, how many peer-reviewed academic journal articles mention the constant as a primary example of nonlinear storytelling or temporal philosophy? Give me a range.
AmandaBy the way, that's insane that there's even any. Yeah, no kidding. Uh, like 150.
KipIncorrect. And I did not hear a sound.
AmandaYeah, you didn't hear a sound. There was no sound. Go ahead. Bring it. I. I just really like that he says I instead of yes all the time.
KipOh, Des.
AmandaOh.
KipAye.
TheresaThat was untouchable.
Amanda150.
TheresaOh, that was gonna be something more exciting.
AmandaYou have to be like, I can't do the accent.
KipDo the accent.
AmandaAye.
KipNot bad. Not bad.
AmandaAye.
KipAye. Teresa, do you have a guess? No. And a sound? No. No. Okay. So according to JSTOR, which is a database of academic journals, there are roughly 45 to 60 peer-reviewed journal articles citing and analyzing the constant.
AmandaThat's crazy. That's not what we were even talking about. Like, I'm talking about entertainment weekly and screen rant. Like, these are like actual academics who use it in their writings.
KipWho are studying? That's why that's crazy. And lost itself isn't a ton. Because it's like no, but the constant specifically is incredibly, incredibly reviewed and revered. Question number two The average Lost episode takes two weeks to plan and write. How many weeks did the constant take?
AmandaAye. That was worse or that got worse. That was like pirate. It was pirate. It was very Scottish. So sorry. I am so sorry to all Scottish listeners and also to Henry Eden key saying ridiculous. And pirates. No, I totally forgot what the question. No, I didn't. I think it took six weeks.
KipIncorrect. I don't have a guess. Come on. I mean, it's a number. What? It's just a number. It's just a number. Like how many weeks?
TheresaSo it's weeks. Yeah, he said that in the okay. I didn't mean that.
KipYou're too nervous, true. I'm so nervous because I'm trying to think of what my sound can be. Very fun trivia.
TheresaYeah, it's just no, I'm nervous because I don't want to. It sound like a parrot. I no, I don't want to do that. We need different sounds. Because what if we both go aye at the same time? Then who gets to go?
KipOne will sound very different.
TheresaWell, one will sound like that. Um, I'm gonna say eight weeks.
KipIncorrect.
TheresaOh no.
KipFive weeks. Oh, okay. So, and what took the longest was determining the effects of the episode on future stories and characters. So it took them three extra weeks to really storyboard this and plan out how this will impact the future of the show. Crazy, hey. Okay, question number three. Okay. The character of George Minkowski, whom up until this point was only the phone voice, is played by Fisher Stevens, who is an Academy Award winner. What did he win his Oscar for?
TheresaOoh. I can't even name his book. You sounded so confident.
AmandaYou were like, I do know that I I yeah. I can't name a symbol. I can't name a single thing. He's one of those actors that I feel like I have seen in a million things, but I could never kind of like Ed Harris. Exactly. I don't know. What is it? And we get a hint.
KipUm do we know? Have we seen it? I can't give you it. I don't know if you've seen it. Here's your hint. It was not for acting.
AmandaOh.
TheresaOh, he directed.
KipThat it was not for acting.
TheresaThen I have no idea. No, I don't know.
KipOkay, so it was as a producer of the Academy Award-winning documentary called The Cove from 2009 about dolphin hunting practices in Japan. So it sounds awesome.
AmandaHe does not strike me as someone who would be because of his character online.
TheresaIs that what you're gonna base it on?
AmandaEntirely.
KipHe seemed nuts.
TheresaHe seemed crazy. Also was alive for maybe five minutes of the show.
KipOkay, question number four. How many Emmys did this episode win?
TheresaCreepes on a bike.
AmandaI I think it won three.
KipIncorrect.
AmandaOh no.
KipPenny.
AmandaTwo?
KipIncorrect. It was a trick. Question it won zero. No way.
AmandaI was afraid of that as soon as I said three.
KipIt was nominated for three.
AmandaThat's right.
KipBut it for outstanding writing in a drama series, which it lost to madmen. Outstanding music composition lost to pushing daisies, which I don't even remember what that is.
TheresaI've heard about that.
KipYeah, I've heard it, but I can't remember. And Outstanding Cinematography, which it lost to Mad Men. That was like a thing.
AmandaI think this is what I like. I hate Mad Men and people are always like, What? I tried to watch it. I got to like season three or four. Like our friend Justice was like, you just have to give it time. It gets better. And I'm like, okay, like when? And he's like, like by the end of season one, I'm like, okay, well, I'm in season three and I don't feel that way. But I think there was like a part of me that just like also hated it because there's always one show that wins everything, and like there's no room for anyone else.
KipLost lost a lot to Mad Men with Emmys, which is very frustrating. I liked Mad Men. I wasn't obsessed with it. I don't think it's the greatest show ever, but I didn't, I never finished it. I didn't watch the last season. Like I kind of just lost interest.
TheresaI've never watched a single episode. It's just never interested me. I don't think you would like it. I don't think it's too slow for you.
KipWe're watching For All Mankind right now, which is sort of like in that same era, but a very different genre. It's very good.
AmandaAnd of Mad Men, like it's from a long time ago.
KipYeah, like in the 50s or 60s, 70s. And guess who's starring in it? Or at least is in like a few episodes. Penny, Sonia Wagner. Wagner? Wagner?
AmandaWagner. Wagner. She's really cool.
KipYeah, she's in this, and she's very good in it. So little connection. All right. Final question.
TheresaWe're back zero.
KipHow many top of lists, like Amanda was mentioning, does the constant appear on?
TheresaI'm not even gonna bother.
AmandaI mean, again, you can just guess. Well, you looked it up. Well, I did, but I only looked up the first two pages. There's probably like I'd say like 30.
KipI mean, yeah, like I don't actually have a number. It's a lot. So it's on 25 major publications lists of the top 10 episodes in that top 10 of all time.
TheresaOh.
KipVirtually every best of lists for television has it included, if not in the top 10. It's in the list.
AmandaYeah.
KipAnd it's often cited alongside Breaking Bad's, Osmendian, Ozimantis, Ozzy Mendiaz, and the Sopranos Pine Barons as one of the three gold standard episodes of Peak TV.
AmandaHave you watched Breaking Bad?
KipNo, never.
AmandaDo I watch television? I can't. I'm gonna I'm totally mispronounced.
KipOzzie Mendiaz.
AmandaBut that episode is so good, and it is like considered the best one of that. And I mean, that is a good episode of the Sopranos as well. So it's in good company. And yeah, it's on every it's in on all the lists.
KipAnd I know like it does come up every few years, like the constant best episode of Lost or one of the best episodes of TV.
AmandaLike and I think that's what's in what's really cool about it, is like it for sure tops the list for most of the the best episodes of Lost. Sometimes the the finale will, if you get like a certain type of publication posting, but it's always gonna be at the top of the lost ones. And then that it's in the top like five to ten of like all-time TV shows. Oh, yeah, especially for a show that is super polarizing. And also what I think is super funny, this episode highlights the thing most people didn't like about Lost. So I find it just very interesting. That's kind of what I wanted
Why Sci Fi Lands Emotionally
Amandato talk about. Is like it's so funny to me that this episode is so regarded, but so many fans that like were like Lost took a turn, lost, whatever. It's about this idea of like stumbling into this down this path where we're stumbling now with this, right? Yeah, so I think it just goes to show that the idea, like, first of all, everyone in this episode, we're gonna talk about it, obviously, is so does such a good job acting, but it just shows that even like when it gets kind of wonky, if you take a story, even if it's starting to get a little bit like science-y, a little bit like out there, and you ground it in like these like great performances, like and like this deep love, people are going to respond well to it.
KipOh, totally. And that's the that's the consensus of why it's so successful, is they're able to blend a hardcore sci-fi theme and theory of time travel, but have it grounded in like a story with characters that you care so much about that it becomes just this melding of two contrasting ideas that work so good together.
TheresaYeah, and I think it's a testament to the actors and the writing that we've never actually really seen Penny and Desmond together that much to this point. Like he's been on the island since season two that we've seen. Um and like we're that invested in their relationship and their chemistry again, even though they're not really ever together that much.
AmandaSo, I mean, well, yeah, and like obviously we'll get into it a bit more, but the idea I think for me is that it's very clear from Desmond's side that he's like still very invested in her and he's like always talking about her and always wants to like be better for her, but it's never really that clear where she stands with him, and even when like even like was Woodmore gonna give him the right information? Was she actually going to let him in? Like all these things that each step of the way you're like she's done with him. Like, this is all just she didn't seem that invested when he came back, you know, because other shows I feel would have given you like a few more nuggets of like, oh, like yearning glances or something like that, where you would know where kind of Penny stands with him, but you don't know, and then all of a sudden you just find out that she's still like as into him as he's into her, and it's just beautiful. But yeah, I mean it's like it's it is unfortunate to me that even like they didn't get nominations for acting out of it. Like I know, like is I don't think I don't know if Henry Ian Cusick ever did, but I don't think so. Isn't it crazy to think that this was still all gonna maybe be Echo or something like this with Echo? It's hard to fathom. There's never gonna be a constant.
KipIt's hard to fathom if that echo, if he didn't leave what we would have got. Like, I'm I have no doubt that they would have done an amazing job with the story, but it would be so different.
TheresaYeah, it would be different. Like, I feel like this is like the love story that like I actually believe in. Yeah, no hence Jack, Kate Sawyer, and all of your shit. Um, but like I'm more invested in Desmond and Penny than the people we've seen from the beginning. Yeah, yeah.
Theresa's Stream of Consciousness
KipOkay, well I I mean, I think we need to just get into Teresa's stream of consciousness. There's nothing to be excited.
TheresaThere's nothing to be excited about. Teresa's stream of consciousness. Also. Also. Even though I don't say also anymore. And I think I said that last time too. Anyway, season four, episode five, the constant. Will I cry? We will see. Alone I march onward. Okay, so on the chopper. We're on the chopper. Uh, when's the last time I printed a photo like this? Do people keep those in their wallets? Um, that is a storm. Should we be doing this? I hate flying. Wait, is that a printout of a photo or is it like an actual photo? Honestly, I would literally ship my pants on this thing. Okay, no thanks. Come on, De Oh wait, hello men. Wait, you seem perplexed. Um, could you imagine telling your commander that you were having a dream? I mean, when I was a cadet, I barely spoke. Wait, how does this work? How can they talk through a hundred crunches? Dang, they ab strong. Wait, what is happening? Des are you alright? Des, don't take it off. You need it on. Um wait, so he remembers the helicopter, but no? Wait, are wait, what's happening? Oh, it's been a day. Oh, Juliet, my smart lady. Charlotte sucks. Okay, clearly something is happening. I'm sorry, Dan. What is it you mean? What'll be fine? Oh, okay. But can we explain what you mean, Daniel, my love? Sorry, side effects of what? Can you see the boat now if it's two minutes away? Yes, you don't have to stay on the bearing once you're at a certain point, because we'd have to dip down there. Des are you good? Oh my god, that is the slowest run. Long strides though. Uh Denz, I need you to take a breath. I don't trust this large man. Uh why are you standing? When did you get up? No one saw him get up? Ten kilometers? Absolutely not. Okay, so he remembers this army stuff, but not the boat? Wait, how does he remember the boat, but not the stuff before the boat? Okay, remember our pen pen. Okay, off he goes. Is it normal to just have a phone booth in the middle of the encampment? Uh where's the the island is? Kimi feels very smarmy. No thanks. Nice arms though. Uh what the heck? Wait, this guy. What say you, sir? Okay, pens of Said, also very nice arms. So cute that he says that Desi's his friend. I guess when I could go down the stairs like that, I feel like I don't trust myself anymore. Also, Lapidas is way older than me, so maybe I could. Anyway. Uh Lapidas versus Said. Okay, I'd say Saeed definitely took those bullets out. Okay, they're gonna be so happy. Oh, so no. Um wait, what? Radiation, electromagnetism? What is happening? Ew, no, I don't like that. Sir, are you okay? Wait. If that happens to Desi, does he go blank then too? How did he end up standing up? Uh doctor, we shouldn't just be injecting people with shit.
unknownUh-huh.
TheresaOh, he looks ill. Ew, don't use the same needle. Oh, okay, good. Okay, maybe have him sit if you're gonna examine him. I don't trust you though. Oh god, I startled too easily. Oh, that's a pen. Wait, what's the relationship? Oh, it's not good. Okay, sad. Okay, so not good. Okay, this is escalating. Okay, is Daniel gonna explain more? Wait, 1996? Damn, that's a long time ago. Ooh, this episode makes Mama cover in goose flesh. Um, how does this work? Wait, what displacement? What numbers are these and why? Uh sir, that's not gonna be on your hand anymore. Who's Eloise? Why won't they let him talk to Daniel? That's their peeps, no? God, this is such a mind trip. How old is Daniel that he looks like this in 1996? Okay, device talk works. Or maybe Eloise, whatever, whoever that is. Okay, we believe him. Cute office. Wait, how does this work? Wait, yeah, same question. None for you? Oh, Eloise is a rat. Okay, I don't like this. Let's not experiment on it, please. Excuse me. Please don't. Wait, what's gonna happen? Oh my god, is it okay? What do you mean not back yet? Where are you sending it? Just the consciousness? What worked? Uh you send her forward and then she remembered. Ooh, I love a giant board. Ooh, Desi's back. Okay, Lapidas, good boy. Wait, how does this man know him? Oh, the guy on the phone. Wait, what? And he was calling them? How long are they broken up at this point that everyone still calls them like a couple? In no way do I believe that Daniel could carry Desmond. Um, is Elvis dead? And why are you so chill about her dying? Okay, something that exists in both, but then what? Is it to help you figure out where you are? Oh snap, bitch. She mad at you? Des I feel like Said would for sure help him, even this even if this sounds kinda crazy. Uh, it's one deck up. Just go up there. Why do you need to untie this guy? Well, very lucky that Does didn't fall down the stairs. Ooh, Black Rock. Oh, it's Caleb Nickel. Oh, wrong show. Charles Woodmore. Would love to read that journal. Did you get the painting too, or just the journal? Oh, you're gonna go to the bathroom together. Well, that's awkward. Just stand there while he pees. Uh Charles, why is the water still running? Um, is he just gonna give her the info? Seriously, the water. Does it not seem like it's happening more frequently to Des than Mike? Is that his name? I can't remember. Who is Brandon? Oh, Brandon did. Um, okay, I love Said though. Oh, it's happening so fast to Desmond. What the heck? Oh, that guy is gonna die. Oh, never mind. He's straight up dead. Um, okay, this episode is so good. Okay, seriously, the water, what the fuck? Did Charles put his towel in there? Why is it overflowing? Oh, it's the stopper. Did he pull the stopper? What a weirdo. Oh, god, don't drink it. Oh, okay, maybe he just splashed his face. Oh, look, it's Penny. Okay, don't phase out. No, oh, she still loves him. Look at her face. She's so sad. Also, don't change your digits, please. God. Shit, that's a long time. Eight years? I'm dumb. I would for sure forget. But God, he looks so earnest. I'd give it to him. God, she looks ripped. Is that too many numbers? How many numbers is it in Europe? Okay, he's back. Wait, do they have area codes? Oh my god, Zaid, you're so quick. Hot. Pen pick up. What time is it there even? Is she asleep? Is that okay? Pick it up. Oh my god, my heart. Oh, I can't. Oh, they're so sweet. Wait, did she know about the island? Wait, why has she been looking? Is he gonna be okay now? Can you imagine? Waiting eight fucking years. Oh, that's too precious. My soul. I can't I'm not crying though, but my soul, not okay. But he's okay. God, this is beautiful. I have chills and they're multiplying. End episode? Oh, never mind. Daniel, you okay? Why be flip flip? Oh, Desi is your constant. But how would you find him? Oh, now it's the end. Bye-bye. Unhinged as you try. So good. You didn't cry though, hey? No. I did. I did.
The Tiny Nitpicks That Stick
AmandaYeah, but no.
TheresaAt this point, it's been four seasons. Everybody knows. I didn't cry. Y'all cried.
AmandaI cried when like even when it was ringing and he was like walking away from her, like in the flashback, and then he was like smiling, and I was like, Oh, it's so beautiful.
KipI know.
AmandaAnd they obviously had their conversation, but the conversation wasn't even like the part, it was like the lead up to it that I was like, it's so beautiful. Like, I know she's gonna pick up. I've seen it a hundred times, but I'm like, pick up the phone, Betty.
TheresaNo, uh, the whole I mean, it's one of those things where like I remember this episode, obviously, but not like like fine details. So I couldn't remember, like, I know she picks up, but like I don't know how long it takes. I don't know if it's like an instant, like, I've been sitting by the phone. So when it was ringing, I was like, come on. I know.
KipI thought, I thought the phone, I didn't realize, I guess, how quick the episode was going because I thought the phone that there was a lot more between him trying to get the calm stuff working again. But he he's just but then he's just like, Oh, I got it. Oh, that was fast.
AmandaWas kind of annoying. That's the only criticism I have of it. They walk in and it basically looks like someone cut through every wire in the place. And then he's like, Can you fix this? He's like, I'm gonna need a minute. And then, like, two seconds later, he's like, Here's this red phone, I'm just gonna plug it in somewhere. Like, it's a little bit frustrating.
TheresaNo, but I try to remember that like the time like moves differently. So, what like we feel like is probably very short. Speaking of time drive, it's probably been like an hour.
AmandaNo, for sure. But it's just like he thought of the like it literally looked like he walked into a place that like could not be salvaged.
KipYeah, like he can't just but and like he didn't even say anything like, oh, none of this is working. This is so hard. It was just like, oh, here we go. This and this connect, boom, done. What's the number?
AmandaShe becomes at the batteries dying. I'm like, that seemed to be the least of the problem.
TheresaI feel like it's because he just connected, like he wasn't trying to get all of the communication stuff. You know what I mean? Just found a spare. I will defend Saeed's very skilled.
KipAnd I thought the same thing. I'm like, I don't think that's enough numbers for a bird because don't they have like crazy wonky numbers? Yeah, wonky numbers.
TheresaI was confused. It was only eight digits.
KipMaybe that is enough.
TheresaBut like, is there no area code?
AmandaWell, like, I think of Dana's number, and it's like two numbers and then a bunch of numbers. Like, I don't know.
TheresaYeah, but the two numbers is the country code. Like, there's no country code here.
AmandaBut he probably knew the country code, so she didn't need to give it to him.
TheresaI guess, but like, do they have area codes?
AmandaThey've got he did say it was a London number to Said, so maybe he knew because Said's also from London. So I didn't Said's from Iraq. Well, I've through London. He was in Britain for a while. I just maybe I was thinking about Navine Andrew. Yeah, I was like, I don't think he wants this worldly, he knows every country's area code, okay?
TheresaI know ours. I know the US.
KipIt's because they're the same. And I one in one.
TheresaYep. I think one of the one shows is a one, right? Is it? Yeah. One of them is 91, I think, or 51. Oh, whatever. I can't even tell you which one.
AmandaI just think it's I mean, of all the, like, that's literally the only criticism I have of the entire episode.
TheresaSo mine was that there's no way on God's green earth that Daniel Faraday could lift an army man off the ground and into a chair. You might have just dragged him.
AmandaHe might have kind of like fallen a little bit and like he kind of caught him. No, I agree. You can you can see that Daniel's probably like totally homie. I didn't even think.
TheresaAnd then he's like, he's like, I carried you over there. I'm like, no, you did not. You did not do that, sir. You are not that strong. Okay. Very frail.
AmandaHe is very frail. He's very cute, though.
KipHe's very cute. I love the way he moves. It's just so like erratic.
AmandaI like his like slow. Like, what are you talking about? Like way of talking. I love it. I don't know why, but he like sounds like a surfer there. I didn't care for the whoa.
KipNo, I like it too. It's so funny.
AmandaI find him very endearing. Yeah, he's really endearing. Okay.
Freighter Politics And Hidden Help
AmandaShould we stop at the start at the beginning?
TheresaYeah. Yeah. They're on the chapa.
AmandaThey're on the chapa. And we knew from last episode, or whatever episode they were last talking about it, that there was a huge issue that they hadn't gotten there.
KipYeah, because they said they should have been there by now.
AmandaSo, you know, in the beginning with the turbulence, like at putting yourself in the like seat of the first view, it could be that something happened to them. Yes. Right. But we see that that's not what happens. Something happens to Desmond.
KipIt was funny though, because like Saeed's like, Where are you going? Why do you need a bearing? Why are you flying into that storm? And I'm like, stop asking questions, let him fly. And then Lafita's like, Would you just let me fly?
AmandaLa Petis is so cool.
unknownYeah.
AmandaI am very okay. I don't want to jump around, but I it's so hard not to. Yeah. I'm very confused. And I know that like I remember, like I said, I have seen it before, I promise to anyone listening. But I the the dynamic on the ship is very confusing to me right now. Like Lapidus and Faraday and Charlotte seem to actually not have any sort of like pull on that ship, like whatsoever.
KipBecause they come onto the island as if they're sort of running the show. Yes. Very important. And they get to the ship, and the ship guys are just like talking down to them, like as if you don't have any authority, very much like there's two factions here.
TheresaYeah. I get the vibe that it's kind of like a like Charlotte. What's that guy's name? Miles. Charlotte Miles and Naomi. Naomi and Daniel. Daniel. For some reason, names escaping me. Those four, like we know that three of them are not like tactically people or whatever. So like their authority lies in like what they're gonna do. I don't think it lies on like the ship. I think the ship people like brought them there. But like I don't think that like kind of like you said, like it's two different like groups. Like they happen to be, they were like the ones brought there. But once they get to the island, like it's their show from there. Like the boat people have nothing to do with that.
KipUntil the boat people come.
AmandaYeah, but then and because that's what I was thinking. I'm like, okay, that's how I thought about it for a second in my mind too. That's how I was I was reconciling it until I remembered what Kimi does later. Exactly. And so Kimi's Kimi doesn't stay on the boat. Let's just go that far. I won't run it for you, but Kimi does not stay on the boat. So because I don't remember, that's a problem.
KipThat's not a problem. It's just like the the way they're presenting it, you're right to feel what you felt. Like it is very deliberate to have them be almost separate, even though they're from the same place.
AmandaLike you're, I think you're we start off thinking that like Naomi, Miles, Charlotte, Faraday, Lapidas are the problem. Yes. But I think we're starting to see that they're just like one tiny cog in like some other bigger thing that we really have no that it they're just laying some little breadcrumbs right now about it.
TheresaYeah, as someone who doesn't remember anything, like I feel like it's like Do you remember who owns the boat?
AmandaYeah, do you remember who owns the boat?
KipWhere the boats come you don't?
AmandaNo, you don't remember? I have another question. Yeah. Do you remember who their friend on board is? Remember how he said he said, You must have a friend on board because the door was open.
TheresaWas it not Lapidus who opened the door? No.
AmandaOh my god. Do you actually not remember? Oh my gosh!
KipWow, no.
AmandaNo, no, he's not, he's like, he's gotta be his own, I think, person. Like he's I just assumed he let them out.
KipThat's a good assumption. It is a good assumption.
AmandaThat's maybe what they were hoping people would think. But no, the whole like, how are we gonna get out? And he's like through the door, and he's like, You guys must have a friend on here.
KipAnd remember Ben saying he had a man on board a couple episodes ago.
AmandaSo there's someone on that ship that's working for Ben, and there's someone on that ship that is friendly to Saeed and Desmond. And they may or may not be the same person.
TheresaRemember I literally I literally, honestly, to this very moment, because clearly I'm wrong. I thought when he's like, Oh, you must have, I thought it was I thought Lapidas was like helping them out because he was like, Oh, don't lock my buddies in there.
AmandaI think Lapidas probably doesn't do a lot of positive actions. He's probably already drunk somewhere. Yeah, exactly. But no, that's that's a good assumption. I just I that was very, that was a I think a very good little and clearly good because it didn't like raise immediate flags for you. Like it was subtle. That's what I like. I said, that's what I love about it. It's like these subtle, like they do give you hints because what serialized TV show in 2006 didn't give you hints, but it gives you hints without like slapping you across the face with them, which is nice. But anyway, like I said, I jumped around because I was just like, when they get on the ship, I'm already like what yeah, the dynamic is weird.
Desmond’s Shifts And Faraday’s Rules
KipI mean, they so they get on the ship and like the islanders. Well, Desmond's going through his phases, his memories, and he goes through a lot. I mean, that is the focal point, his flashbacks, but it's not a flashback, it's a time travel.
AmandaYeah, but at first you don't know, right? Like, is he just and that they did a very good job on those? Like the seamless transition between the two, that is so well done.
KipEspecially the one where he went to pick up the coin. And I was just like, oh my god, I can just imagine like some quote unquote crazy person like trying to grab something on the floor. And if I see that, I'm gonna be like, are they time traveling from now on? Like, that's what I'm gonna think.
AmandaWhy can't they grab it? Why do they seem out of it?
KipYeah, anytime someone seems out of it, I'm like, they're in a different time, their consciousness has left. I know, which could be true as well, but I mean, not in time.
AmandaTheir consciousness is clearly not there, the mechanism for which we might not know fentanyl. Um but it's very well done because and like when he's f starts freaking out on the like Chopper. And it's interesting because he seems more aware of like what's going on for the chop when he's going back in time, and less but aware of like where he came from and who he is. Whereas when he's in the read like 2004, he doesn't seem to understand at all who he is right then, yeah. And so that was kind of interesting too. And this idea that like obviously he can't control it, and we get some exposition from Faraday on it, which is like really the only I did like how what was it?
KipThere was like um Sahit says I I it must be um it must be the Lapitas who says, What are you hoping to find on this island or this ship? Or maybe it's maybe it's um Desmond, but he's like, answers, and then the next scene is like Faraday, quote unquote giving answers, and it's just like in typical loss form, like not really answering anything, but without causing more questions. Like his answers are like, She's like, Don't tell them, Daniel, it's going to confuse them. And then he's just like, Oh, I will tell them your friends may not understand, and there may be side effects. You told us nothing, Daniel. I don't know. Side effects of what?
TheresaLike, what are we talking about? I really like that one.
AmandaWhen when Juliet's like, you can talk really slow, or she's so funny. I freaking love her.
KipThat was so good.
AmandaBut yeah, I like I know in your screen scream, the stream of consciousness, you said Charlotte's useless. Charlotte does seem to not be. But I mean, it's kind of interesting because like, is she being like purposely difficult, or is it something where do you want to tell people you met for the first time 30 hours ago that their friend is experiencing time travel flashes?
KipLike, it's a hard call. And also, yeah, she just met these people, doesn't know them. Like, there's this whole conspiracy that she's just been sort of led into. I know she's been looking for the island. We saw in her flashback thing, but like I get it. She comes across as being like difficult, difficult, but it's also one of those things like you just described, she doesn't really know these people and has just been inserted into this thing. Yeah, they've gone off plan of what they were trying to do.
TheresaI mean, I don't know, she gave me bad vibes. I think that Daniel is so endearing and so sweet that like it like makes her look worse to me. Like, she's like, No, don't. And he's like, No, it's fine. Just gives them all the info, and like she's still like rolling her eyes, and I'm just like, girl, please, he's already doing it.
AmandaYeah, I think Daniel is like a classic example of someone who fully believes in what he knows so deeply that he doesn't comprehend the idea that someone else wouldn't.
KipAnd you shouldn't say, and I'm sure Charlotte's just following orders from them, just like don't say anything to anybody. And we've sort of been led to believe that Daniel's a bit of a wild card. Like, he like, why is Daniel talking to him? Like, don't give him the phone. Like, he's sort of a little bit more loose and goosey.
AmandaThat's what I mean. Like, I really it's really hard to understand what the dynamic on that ship is. Like, because even the doctor seemed kind of nefarious, but then like did seem like he wanted to kind of understand.
TheresaHe gave me bad lines. Oh, big bad lines.
AmandaLike Kimi, like everyone seems to answer to Kimi, but I then they're gonna be captain somewhere. Yeah, and then where is why isn't Kimi on the island with all these people then if they're like so worried about what's happening? Like, it's it's very confusing right now. And I'm like, are they good? Are they bad? It's very hard to tell.
TheresaGot mad juju beans mainly because Kimi looks like he kills people.
AmandaYeah, he certainly does. Like he looks like a mercenary. No, I'm not like he's he looks like that. Okay, I agree. He looks like a mercenary, like you would see in like Call of Duty.
KipI was waiting for you to comment about his arms.
TheresaI did, I knew it was coming. Yeah, like neck down, yikes. Was it good?
AmandaI didn't even notice.
TheresaYes, Bill. He's ginormous.
AmandaWhat's that? Who's that actor?
TheresaI don't know.
AmandaI was gonna say that about Alan. That's what I was when you were doing your scream. Scream, why do I keep saying scream? Scream of consciousness. I couldn't remember his name. It's just me like it's just three straight minutes of me just don't. Kimi's one of those, I don't know who the actor is, sorry, but he is one of those actors that like if they put him in like a rom-com, I'd be like, this isn't right. And that's how I feel about poor Alan Dale. That's who's I had to look up his name again. I forgot. Caleb Nickel. But has Alan Dale ever played a good guy in anything he's ever done? I don't think so. I don't think so. I only know him from the two roles and like well, and he's in he was in uh one of the Indiana Jones, and I think he was a bad guy in that.
KipOh, Alan's always a bad guy.
AmandaHe's always a bad guy. Like, there's just some people that they come on screen, and I'm sorry, but Harold Per Perino is one of those, and apparently he's in some sort of new TV show. Apparently he's not the bad guy, and I'm like, I'm there's gonna be a twist.
TheresaNo, it's very good.
AmandaEvery time he's on screen, eventually he becomes the bad guy.
TheresaLike um, but I will say, like, kudos to the actor who plays Kimi, because like he you you said he's supposed to be like smart. He does it very well because like you can tell he's like very attractive, but I'm not attracted to the body.
AmandaWe know we know how you know what I mean.
TheresaLike I'm attracted to his body, but like when he He's got like a Draco Malfoy thing going on.
AmandaI got what's happening here?
KipYeah, yeah, no, no, yeah.
AmandaAnd what a what what a credit to his acting skills? Like no matter how hot he is, Teresa's not attracted to him. Like, is there an enemy for that category?
KipYou fool Teresa. You got her. You got her.
AmandaOh, yeah.
KipAll right, all right.
AmandaI know about a simple one. Okay, let's just talk it like really straight to the point.
Determinism And The Constant Concept
AmandaLike, what do we actually think about this idea of time travel being introduced? Do we think, I mean, again, this episode is obviously lauded, like we're not shitting on that, but as just a collective, like, do we think it was handled well? Yes. Do we buy it? Do we like how it was introduced? Yes. Okay. Well, you're the scientist of us, so you probably know the.
TheresaYeah, I'm a time travel physicist. Yes. Um, no, it's not. I'm not. But um, I what I like about it is not this whole like um time travel, like in the like traditional sense where like you go through like a time travel machine and like your whole body gets transported to the back and whatever. Or you like change, whatever. I like that it's very like whatever happens, whatever's happened still happens. It's always meant to happen that way. You were always meant to go back, you were always meant to like run into this guy or whatever. Um, so I like the idea that it's like the consciousness and not this like I'm getting disintegrated into little bitties and whatever. Um, so I like that part. Um, and yeah, I do like the whole you can't change the events that happened. Because I think that's the part where like people get like kind of confused sometimes, where if you go back in time and you change something or you stop something from happening, what happens? And I think that's what like Marvel does where they have the like branch timelines or whatever. But like in this one, it's just the same timeline, just in different spots on it.
AmandaWhich I've heard. I mean, again, I know that this is silly, but I have heard that that is more scientifically grounded than like the split-off time.
TheresaThe branch timelines, yeah.
AmandaLike, not I for the record, I don't believe it's possible. Except right now, I'm not some crazy conspiracy theorist, but only about JFK's assassination. But I do think that that is more grounded in like what they believe scientifically would be possible. But it was interesting because so what do we make of all the Faraday? So Faraday is the obviously the person who explains to Desmond in 2004 what he needs to do to fix this, um, which is to go back in time and find it. So what I find interesting is why couldn't 2004 Faraday just tell him the stuff about the constant? And is it because he's just because when we go back in time and see him, like obviously he's exposing himself to a lot of radiation. He says he doesn't, like, why didn't the guy in the future remember all of this? And he kind of is like, well, maybe he just forgot. Like, what like they seem to talk around that a lot. Like, so what at this point are we supposed to believe about Daniel Faraday? Like, does because then later at the end we see that he wrote in his notebook that Desmond Hume is going to be his constant. So he obviously did know him, and he did. So was he just kind of messing with him? Did he completely forget him? Is it because he's kind of messed with his own biology a lot in all of his experiments, or what's going on with that now?
KipHe just like I think his head's scattered. The first thing we saw of Daniel was him crying about the plane crash wreckage found. And his mannerisms, the way he moves, the way he talks is very erratic, scattered, like it's endearing, but it is like very indicative of someone who's like uh brilliant, but just not all there. Not well. And I think Desmond's comment, but what do you use to protect your head? was very deliberate to be like, yeah, you're exposing yourself to radiation 20 times a day and protecting your chest, lungs, and heart. Great. But what about your brain? And so there's I think we're just meant to infer that he's just his his head isn't quite all there anymore. So probably forgot. Probably just needs that notebook as his reminder.
TheresaAs his constant.
AmandaWell, Jasmine Hume's and I I love that. That's very adorable. Yeah, it's very interesting. Like the the the time travel stuff makes a lot of sense.
KipWell, I did read today that like a lot of smart people have said like this is like you said, the most grounded time travel theory. And basically that if we were a much more advanced civilization, that could be possible. I don't know what you would use it for though.
TheresaLike that's the thing.
KipLike If I can just export my consciousness and can't actually change anything, what's the point?
TheresaI guess to see things firsthand and then bring that knowledge to the future. I don't I don't know. Like I mean, I mean that's the that's a good question. If you could go to the past and see anything, would you do it? Just to see.
AmandaBut I think that is what it is, right? It would be knowledge, right? So even the going back in time, what Faraday sent him with was tell him this, and his whole thing was obviously it's to prove to him that you know what you're talking about because this is something we figured out, but it's also in that same vein, he is what helped him figure it out, right? And I think that's the thing that hurts people's minds when it comes to time travel is like as much as Faraday says, like, you can't change it, future is what it is. Well, it's a big loop of like confusion because it's like it is what it is to a degree, but then also because he came back in time and told you these numbers, you were able to do what you wanted to do to get to a place where in the future you can tell me those numbers and I can come back in time and tell them to you. And it becomes this kind of like crazy loop that freaks people out, right?
TheresaI think that's because we're so used to used to the idea that time is linear, right? Right. Like, and I don't I think it's just like it's just moments, yeah, right? Like and a moment can happen at any time. And I don't think I think because we're so used to seeing it like even when you draw like a timeline of like the world, yeah, it's like Big Bang started here, dinosaurs were here, and it's and it's just a straight line through. So I think like this idea that like you can go back and do something that impacts your future is like kind of like it doesn't follow that.
AmandaYeah.
KipAnd obviously, like in this world, they want to study it further to see how they can exploit it or take advantage or better use it for whatever purposes. Because he sends the rat into the future, so obviously there's future possibilities as well.
If You Could Time Travel
AmandaYou know, I think if anything I do think people would rather go into the future, probably like with any I would. Yeah, that I don't know that people would choose to go in the past.
TheresaI wouldn't. I would.
AmandaFor what so you tell us what the purpose is then? I know you watch a lot of Outlander, is it to get Jamie?
unknownOh my god.
TheresaIf that were a possibility. No, there I think some of the greatest minds are behind us. And I would want to like see how they work, like how they think. Like everybody knows my favorite is Archimedes. And his work was like lost and written over and used as a Bible. And I would love to like just like watch him work for like a day.
AmandaI mean, that actually does raise kind of an interesting point. Because like it's almost like if you could take what we have now and give it to people who didn't have that opportunity. So like, what if you gave like, I don't know, Mozart like a mixing board?
TheresaWhy would I do that?
AmandaWell, I'm just saying, like, don't fuck around. Oh, that's ridiculous. It's the same thing you're saying, but I'm just doing a different thing. No, I thought I would have to do that. If you gave Mozart, who was like limited to like the technology at the time, like all of this great, like a studio with like a producer and like all of this stuff. What could Mozart?
KipHow long does he have?
AmandaAre you are you bringing Mozart back here? I don't know yet.
KipBecause can you bring mixing boards with your consciousness?
AmandaI don't know, but I'm just saying.
TheresaHe's just kind of being brave.
AmandaBut I that's kind of what I mean though. The idea of taking like what we know now about whatever. I don't I'm not smart enough to come up with an actual example, you guys, okay? If you took like what we know now about like what do we know now? Scanning and imaging and cancer research and gave it to like Marie Curie, like, would we have cures for cancer already? Like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know, right?
KipI don't think so.
TheresaYeah, but that implies that you're changing something to change the future. What would you do? That's why it's tricky though. Okay, no, but that's that's why you observe.
AmandaYou like what's the point of going back if I can't do anything, use anything of value that I get there? Because I want to watch. Okay, okay.
KipOkay, who okay? You have to pick one moment in the past to watch and observe. Just observe. Because that's from what we understand, that's all we can really do. Kind of useless, but okay.
TheresaI think it's fascinating.
KipAnd then what year in the future would you want to go and observe?
TheresaOkay, well, mine would be the moment that Archimedes got into the bathtub and yelled Eureka. And yelled Eureka, jumped out, and then ran through the streets. I want to.
KipOf course, yours involves seeing a naked man. No, it was it was a coincidence.
TheresaNo, no, that had nothing to do with it. But like, I would love to see the moment where he like it clicks. You know what I mean? Like that recognition in his head of like, holy shit.
KipWhat did he Eureka about? When did our displacement?
TheresaYeah, volume displacement.
KipOh.
AmandaCan I tell you something you're not gonna like? What's that? I've obviously heard of the eureka displacement thing. Yeah. Like when you're in elementary school, you learn that, right? I didn't know it was Archimedes. That's okay.
KipI didn't even know who Archimedes was.
AmandaI know who it is, but I love Archimedes.
TheresaI love the grandfather of mathematics. Wow. He's the grandfather. He approximated infinity before infinity was like a concept. So imagine if his work was okay. I can get into this a long time.
AmandaIf we're just talking experiences and I'm not allowed to like take anything back, like if I was allowed to go and like any even knowledge that's imparted to me at the time, I can bring with me. I guess technically I'd probably already have it. I could read about it or whatever. But if it's simply just to experience something, I'm going to Woodstock.
KipOh, wow, neat.
TheresaThat might make sense for you.
KipYeah.
AmandaI think that'd be funny.
KipI don't know what mine is. It would probably be something like ancient Rome or Greece or pyramids. Like one of those ancient civilizations, just to check it out. Okay, what about the future though?
AmandaI have no.
KipI've got to go to 2200.
AmandaWhy? Why particularly?
KipI just feel like 100 years from now, things probably aren't going to be that different.
AmandaLike 200 years.
KipYes. Because think of where we were 200 years ago. I mean, if you think about where we were 100 years ago, it's vastly different.
TheresaI mean, it's vastly different from when we were young to now, even. If anything like the 80s.
KipBut I really need to know if we're like living on the moon. Because more than anything in the world, that's I would like to live on the moon.
TheresaI don't think we'll live on the moon.
KipIn 200 years? No.
TheresaI don't I don't think maybe not like I don't think it'll be the moon.
KipYou may not be able to get a condo, but you might be able to like, if you were a like you could go and work. Work on the moon. Oh, okay.
TheresaI thought you meant like live, live. I'm like, well, I don't know. I think 250.
AmandaWe might be 250. Give it another 50 years.
TheresaI think Mars is more likely than the moon.
KipWhy? That's so much further.
TheresaYeah, but isn't it more inhabitable than the moon is?
AmandaWell, the moon is only uninhabitable because it doesn't have like it's just a rocky surface.
KipYeah, there's no atmosphere in there.
AmandaSo yeah, but Mars's atmosphere isn't good enough for us.
KipYeah, we can't live on Mars.
AmandaSo no matter what we do, we have to a lot of work.
KipYeah.
AmandaWe have to, there's a word for it. Terraform. They have to terraform it.
KipOh, yeah. But like we can live in bubbles.
AmandaYeah. I just like I mean at this point, anywhere but here. You know what I mean?
KipDoes I need to know that it gets better? Because I feel like we're in a downward trajectory. Worldwise. 100% and in 100 years, I don't think it's long enough to like get things back on track.
TheresaNo, I think I'm like, I feel like I'm I like where you're going because where my mind went was like, if we're assuming that via time travel, I could go back unharmed. I would want to be on Earth for the last hour that it was existing.
KipOh, that's me too.
TheresaAnd then go back before it.
KipOh, I don't think I would.
AmandaWhat if you find out that's like six years from now?
KipYou come back and like, oh fuck.
AmandaWell, then I would just spend the last hour on Earth, and they're like, that's two weeks from now.
KipLiterally tomorrow.
TheresaAnd be like, oh well that time.
AmandaThat is actually my biggest fear. I just go hog wild. I'm like, can I go 200 years in the future, please?
KipAnd they go into like the void of blackness. Fucking apocalypse.
AmandaThey were not wrong about that apocalypse clock. Okay.
TheresaI think the other thing that I like about this episode, you guys, we don't we've gone on a I'm gonna go bring it back to the episode. Okay.
Explaining Just Enough Science
TheresaAnother thing that I like about their time travel is that there's like a back and forth aspect. Yes. Because talking about, for example, if we went into the future too far and there was nothing, how do you get back? You know what I mean? Like yeah, where's your constant? Like you're just like floating, and you're like, well, I'm here now, forever.
AmandaThat is grounded in kind of science, right? Like Faraday explained what I love about this episode is he explains it enough.
TheresaYeah.
AmandaHe doesn't explain it so much that I'm like scratching my head and whatever, but he explains it enough that I can understand what's happening, I can find the beauty in it, and I can move on. Yes, yes, and the idea like that an any sort of equation or like needs equal an equilibrium and needs a constant and things like that, that's also very rooted in science, right? And so I don't know. I thought it was really cool. It was enough. That's what I think about it.
KipAnd that's the thing, like, I really didn't even take very many notes in this episode because like even though it is great, and it is great, there's like not that much that happens. Like we get a few glimpses of the beach people, we get what's going on on the boat, and it really like it's not a lot. Like I said, I was like, Oh, he's already calling Penny. Yeah. We're two-thirds of the way through, and and then like, or a little bit further, and it's like, oh, okay, and like I'm loving it, but there's really not much that happens other than like they explain or they introduce a little bit further, because they've already introduced the idea of time travel in the show, but they just like you say, they explain it enough that we can just be like, oh, cool, and not be like, Oh, now I'm turned off because this is too too like mechanical or whatever or too theoretical. Yeah, so it's like like I know we're we're going on tangents, but like there's only so much to talk about, yeah. And but and that's not a bad thing.
AmandaNo, well, and I think it's interesting because other than a few little Easter eggs like the you guys must have a friend on here, right? Um, things like that, um, and the little bit of glimpse into Faraday's mental condition, there's nothing really that drives the story forward that much. This is probably other than exposed, sorry, the closest thing you have to like a standalone episode. Like you could actually probably show this to someone who's never watched the show, and they would not quite as much joy out of it as the rest of us, but I think that that that article I read that said everyone should watch this show no matter this episode no matter what. I actually kind of believe that I think that could, you're right.
KipI think anybody could watch it and get something out of it, yeah. And feel something and enjoy it.
AmandaAnd it not to say it doesn't drive the story forward, because if you haven't watched this before and you think this is the only time they're talking about time travel, that's obviously not going to be the case. And they didn't storyboard it for three additional weeks to just never revisit it. But I do think that a, if you didn't watch this episode for some reason, because you're hate joy, um, you could survive without it and still understand the storyline. And I think if you just watch this, you could still get something out of it.
KipYeah, and I mean, okay, so a few other little things which I enjoyed. Um, yeah, that like urinal meeting, power move. Power that is wild. Um fucking Whidmore. Jesus.
AmandaCharles, motherfucking Widmore.
KipLike Desmond's just standing there, like, do I talk? And then suddenly he's like, Well, give me your word. It's like, oh, Jesus, buddy. Leaves the water running. Another power move. Like his whole thing is just like, I'm better than you, I'm richer than you, I can do whatever the fuck I want.
AmandaAnd he does give him the number. Like, I thought there would be a bit more like pushback, like, I'm not giving he'd have to beg a bit more, things like that. But that's not what happens because the third power move is he's like, it would be terrible for me to shit on you and tell you how much Penny hates you. But you know what would be more fun if you watched it from her herself.
KipExactly. But before that, this auction is super interesting. The Black Rock, which is on the island. Yes, like you say, that journal would be incredible. And we never, I as far as I can remember, we never get to know any contents of it, which would be neat. I I would love for someone to write that as a little off.
AmandaAnd it's interesting because that scene can serve one of two purpose really three things. Charles Woodmore could have a fascination with the island and knows that the Black Rock is a part of it, and this would provide information about it, maybe. It could be that he's just a crazy billionaire who likes things that cost 200,000 pounds, no matter what actually value they have, or it could be he's just like a historian, yeah, right? Like you don't really learn much about why he wants it, and there's so many reasons he could want it.
KipAnd I mean, I think given the trajectory of the show so far, they're basically telling us that Charles has some connection to the island. Yeah, like why else would you want to overbid everyone else on this very unique piece of history? And yeah, I thought the same thing. Does he have that painting too? Or just yeah, because they had the painting there.
AmandaLike, why I feel like for 300,000, I'll take a painting as well.
KipThey need this visual representation.
TheresaYeah, I feel like if you're gonna bid on a book from the Blackrock, you better know what it is already.
AmandaThese guys who wandered it off the street, they're like, Wow, from that ship, I want that. I'm sorry, do you have a picture of where this came from? No, I'm not interested.
KipSo that was a neat little actually forgot about that. Yeah, that was a good one.
Widmore’s Power Moves And Backstory
KipUm and then a few other few other of Des's like history things, like his army stuff was neat. Uh, we kind of see fill in the gap of where he goes after him and Penny break up to the military and he sucks at it. Yeah.
AmandaAnd do we think this like kind of because in theory, this means he went he went through kind of this experience of like having to reconnect with her in theory, knowing he was gonna try to reconnect, probably drove him through a lot of the decision making he made in the year. Because that was all he wanted to do, right? Is to just keep doing things and accumulate experiences and knowledge and things that made him like more attractive as a partner for her, right? That was his whole spiel, right? Is he wanted to accomplish things.
KipIt wasn't good enough. He had to like do this, he had to join the army, he had to like around the world, like he's got to do all these things, and she's like, just fucking stop and just stay with me. Yeah, like he doesn't get it. But like, um, what was the other thing? Oh, then he went up to visit Desmond at the university, and Desmond kind of or not Desmond, Daniel, and Daniel kind of thought it was a joke, bad joke, which was kind of funny. He was funny, he's the rat. Oh, R A P.
TheresaAll right, yeah, we were again too nonchalant about how oh, yeah, I think she had a brain out, and it was you know, to scientists, yeah, no offense, Teresa.
KipUh, rats are usually a dime a dozen, which I don't agree with. I really don't. Unfortunately, that's it.
TheresaI don't agree with that. I didn't care for that. Oh, okay. But I was, I was like, Eloise. Oh my god. I was like Eloise, Eloise, when she was like going through things. I was like so happy, and then she died.
KipYeah, well, that's the old ray beam he put right into her noggin.
AmandaYeah, yeah, that was so teeny.
KipThat like computer animated beam of light, yeah.
AmandaLike that, like to me, I also love because I I'm certain is it funny because my one of my supervisors at work is really into Lost. He was actually at the documentary when we went.
KipOh, cool.
AmandaAnd every once in a while he'll just kind of come by my office and just like be like, just literally walk by and like something about lost or something. And yeah, yesterday or the day before, he's like, So, what are like the big big mysteries that everyone's pissed off never got solved? And we're just kind of like brainstormed about that. And I'm certain some of it is pro and I said to him, I'm like, I can't actually even think of any right now. Like, I know there are, yeah, but like I I personally didn't feel that dissatisfied, so it's hard for me to put my my mind there. But thinking about this, I'm certain things like, well, what does the Ray do to the mouse to make it do what it happened happened to Desmond? Like, like whatever though, right? Like, I'm certain that, but I personally like that that that's what I mean about not overexplained. I don't care. Because you know what? I don't have to know a PhD in physics, so I don't care. Well, exactly.
TheresaI think that's the thing. Like the the people were like, what does it do? What you're watching the wrong show though. It doesn't like go watch fucking Bill Nye or some shit.
AmandaLike, did whatever he thought it would do once he knew what number to put in or whatever, and now he did this electromagnetism and radiation.
KipIt did that, yeah. Yeah, and then like they're back on the boat, right? And Minkowski dies.
TheresaIs his name Mike? Frank.
KipNo, Frank is Lapidas, and Mike is from Monsters Inc.
AmandaThat's Mike Wikowski. I think it's very what's this guy's name again? Was Newski?
KipGive me a sec. George Minkowski. George Minkowski.
AmandaYeah, it was one of those common old white man names.
KipGeorge. Um Minkowski.
TheresaI thought it was like Wasnowski, or I couldn't remember.
AmandaI do also like that. We got a little glimpse of what it looked like when he went into one of his shifts because then we kind of because we all it was all from Desmond's perspective, right? So then we can see kind of what happens to just wide-eyed open doesn't really make sense.
KipI know what you're gonna say.
TheresaWell, then I'm not gonna say no, no, no.
KipI wanna know.
TheresaIt's just like when he he is in the rain and he's doing push-ups, yeah. And then they go to do crunches, and he's standing.
AmandaYeah, but I wonder if not in the transition, in the transition from bringing the sword on the floor.
KipI don't know. But like I wonder though, as they get worse, you lose. Like you might be able to zone out standing up, but he was never standing up.
TheresaThat's the part that doesn't make sense. He was on the ground already, but he just stood up. Why?
KipHe would have gotten in trouble for that. Remember how we literally just said we don't need to know everything.
AmandaI'm just saying that was I'm just saying, and then like I think that the actually at the 2.342 uh 11 hertz, the light would have been like more of a blue than a purple.
TheresaOkay, to be fair, that stuff fine. But if but if you expect me to believe that what happens to you when you flash in and out of conscious of timeline consciousness, that you blank out and you've and you've perpetuated this the entire episode, except for that one moment.
AmandaYeah, I I I got you.
TheresaI'm just saying.
KipI know, I know, but I'm just saying.
TheresaI think they just wanted to say do 10 kilometers.
KipHe just had to do something to like get in trouble. I mean, he could have just stopped doing crunches, yeah.
AmandaLike maybe it's too hard to film like without everyone else.
KipI would I would suck in the military.
AmandaOh my god. When he's like you now do 10k. I was like, I don't think I've combined around 10k in my entire life.
KipWe biked 10k last night.
AmandaOh why?
KipBecause it was a beautiful night.
AmandaThat's great.
TheresaWait, what do you do? Okay, no, I can't we can't get into these long distance fucking cardio things because then I I just I get confused.
KipUm, but run 10k? No, fucking.
AmandaNo, I don't think so.
KipYeah, I get no. Um, and then yeah, like we get the call and it is gorgeous and beautiful. It's beautiful. The music, like freaking what's his name? Michael Gia Giachino. It's Giacchino.
TheresaGiacchino. Yeah. Um Okay. Imagine breaking up with someone or someone breaking up with you. Tells you this like thing is like, I'm gonna call you in eight years, and you're like, yeah, I'll wait. I'll I'm gonna wait for you. I mean, I'll be looking for you for three years as well. Like, is just madness.
KipYeah, like what happened at year five, what, five, where she was like, okay, now I need to find him. Like we know who her dad is, and we know that now that he's got some connection to the island, so clearly she might have learned something and is like, I've been looking for you. But like, yeah, like was it always just in the back of her mind?
TheresaOh, that weirdo Yeah, because I would have I would have forgotten. I'm like, she she hasn't dated anyone in this whole time, you know what I mean?
KipLike she still loves him.
TheresaBut imagine not being with someone for eight years.
KipYou wanna know something crazy? When you said in your stream 1996 to 2004, wow, that's a long time. That's eight years. It's been 22 years since the episode aired. Or since 2004. Maybe not since it aired, but since it took place, I mean well, I'm pretty uncomfortable. That's a long time. That's a that's more than double than what they're full-on adult. Jesus.
TheresaBut but honestly, like imagine not being with the person you love for eight years. Yeah, yeah, and just holding on to like.
AmandaI do think we get a little bit more glimpses into that in the future of kind of like what kind of kept her connected connected to him and like looking for him. Because I do think that there was a time where it went from he's just this crazy wacko that's doing whatever to like her knowing something was up, understanding a bit, yeah, and like knowing the role her dad played in that.
KipYeah, and I I don't have much memory of that, so I am looking forward to hopefully learning more of that.
TheresaGoose egg for me.
AmandaBut it was just so yeah, it was just when she picked that up, and and it's not even like she's just like right in it, you know, like with him. Like they both are experiencing the same, and they're just oh, I don't know, it's so beautiful.
TheresaBut I I think that's what I love about their like reunion call, constant call or whatever, is that like there's no like oh my god, you're so beautiful. I love you so much. It's like straight to the point, like I called you. I love you, I've been looking for you. Are you still like you know what I mean? It's like are you still? Like, it's just so like it's very like to the point, but like in that simplicity, it's like so much more meaningful. I've been like, Yeah, because like it would be so easy to be like, I've been thinking about you every single day before I go to sleep, and I pray I'm gonna see you again, or some shit, like you know, no, no, it was very nicely done, very genuine. Yeah, it was just very sweet.
KipLike if you literally haven't spoken to someone in eight years and you've gone through some trauma, it was just like to hear that voice, that constant, that thing that keeps you connected, that keeps you grounded, that keeps everything real, very, very touching.
AmandaYeah, that's it touching, and it is beautiful that like you know, because again, looking back on it, because I know you said some things didn't happen exactly what you remembered. In my mind, it took him like longer to figure out like what needed to happen and that she was the constant and all this stuff. And I've loved that it wasn't like the second he said it, he's like, Well, that's Penny, right? Like, you know, like and even when in in the timeline that he was on, he remembered her. Like, it was never even a question, like, oh wow, what could a constant bean? I don't know if I've had any. He's like just like Penny. It's Penny. Like, and I just I actually I'm sure some people probably criticize it being like, Oh, like there could have been a bit more, like, you know, again, exposition around that. But I'm like, no, I think that makes perfect sense. It's always been Penny and will always be Penny, and he's very confident in that, right? He's never doubted her, he's doubted him. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, right.
TheresaAnd I think again, that is also beautiful.
KipSo beautiful, so beautiful, very beautiful, and then we end with Daniel figuring out Desmond is his constant, a little bit weird, no, but I thought that was cute.
AmandaIt's cute, it's cute. I just it made me sad for him a little bit.
KipCute in the moment because you're like, what the fuck? Why?
TheresaWell, I mean, your constant doesn't have to be romantic.
AmandaNo, I know they don't know each other that well. It's just sad that he doesn't have something a little bit more like that obviously means more than you know, or daddy. You don't have anything.
TheresaStranger in both ways.
KipYeah, stranger in both ways, both timelines of time.
AmandaIt's gonna be interesting because like clearly there's more to it than like Desmond is important to him and he's um like they're they clearly play a bigger role in each other's.
KipAnd I was trying to think of the connection. Um, but I think I got it wrong.
Spoiler Talk Family Connections
KipCan we just do a spoiler alert?
AmandaSure. Spoiler alert.
KipSpoiler alert tune out if you don't want to tune out, Teresa for a few minutes slash.
AmandaWell, it won't be a spoiler well, it will be a spoiler for you, but it's not so.
KipSo you probably know what I'm gonna say. So like Penny and Daniel are siblings, right?
AmandaBecause Eloise is his mom and Woodmore is his dad.
KipOh, or is it but yeah, Whidmore is his dad and Eloise is his mom, but Penny's mom is not Eloise. Right. That's what it is. So they're half siblings.
AmandaYeah.
KipAnd then because I was like, wait, is Desmond his brother? No, it's Penny who's Daniel's sister. Right. Yes. And so then like there is like that added connection of Daniel and Desmond, because Desmond is with Penny.
AmandaYeah.
unknownYeah.
AmandaThere's a lot of family issues.
KipA lot of family issues.
AmandaAnd we're back.
Rankings, Perfect Score, Next Week
TheresaWe're all related.
KipAlright, so we hear that he said that.
AmandaYou can't imagine that much has changed.
KipNo.
AmandaOh, one last thing before you do the thing. I just want to say I do agree with what you said in the beginning where Said, I did I do love how much Saeed assisted. Yeah. So I do hope he got a little because I was gonna say not much could change, but Said was a very good friend.
TheresaHe was, and considering they're not actually friends, really, he was like, That's my friend. I was like, you just said that, like you didn't even think twice. You weren't like, oh, what should I say? You were like, that's my friend.
KipWith crazy randos, and you're with one person you know more than the rest of them, you're gonna be friends real quick.
TheresaI can imagine some someone being like, Oh, that's uh he's my companion companion.
unknownYou know what I mean?
AmandaLike we called it.
TheresaWe came we came here together, you know what I mean? But he was like, No, that's my friend. I didn't be my friend. It was very sweet. I was like, so you'd do a little slofty. What am I doing? Character rankings, character rankings. Sorry, I took a photo of my rankings, but like for the episode, but didn't put the names beside them. Okay, but that's because then the ranking was on the other column.
AmandaOkay.
TheresaNot that we needed to know that. Number 16, as per usual, Benjamin, negative 635. Then we have Miles, number 15, negative 125, Charlotte, number 14, with negative 105, Lapitas, 75, Daniel, 150, Juliet, 680. Our top 10 starts with Kate with 790, Claire at number nine with 880, Des at number 8 with 1,035, Locke at number 4, or at number 7, sorry, with 1045. Then we have Sun at number 6 with 1,760, Jin at number 5 with 1,800, Jack at number 4 with 1,870. Our top three starts with the Sawyer at 2,220, Saeed at number two with 2,850, and then Hurley at number 1, 3,120. Said did go up because seriously. Yeah. Makes sense.
AmandaCan I ask just quickly about your rank reignings? There's a lot, no one's really in the negative anymore. Like it really does show over time that people do even out.
TheresaIt's just Ben, Charlotte, and Miles.
KipWell, and I was thinking it's interesting too that we are loot, they've introduced some new characters, but the list still feels shorter than it has in the past. So we are still losing.
TheresaI think we're roughly at around the same.
KipMaybe it feels but maybe because there are so few in the negative. It feels like, yeah.
TheresaYeah.
KipI think this will be a quick rating. Oh, kind of.
TheresaI mean, should we just one kind of three? Yeah. You ready?
KipOne, two, three. Ten out of ten.
AmandaEasy. We don't have to explain why. We just talked about it. Just explain why. Let's leave it at that. Ten out of ten.
KipNext week. Is the other woman, which most likely will not be rated as what's that one?
TheresaOh, you'll see.
KipWe'll find out. So we will see you next week.
TheresaBye. But who is it? No one wants to tell me? I'd rather see.
AmandaWell, that's right.