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Let's Get Lost with The Oceanic Three
We're your Oceanic Three: Theresa, Amanda, and Kip. Join us as we get in-depth about our favourite television show - Lost! We talk about everything: The Island, The Survivors, The Tailies, The Others, The Myths, The Theories, and on and on and on, but we also talk about how Lost changed the television landscape when it came out and how it still reverberates to this day.
Most of all, though, we always come back to how Lost is primarily a character-driven show. For every myth and mystery, five incredible character stories were told. They were complex, mysterious, beautiful, and sometimes challenging to watch - but the characters and their interwoven lives brought Lost to a different level unlike anything ever seen on television.
We would love it if you joined us as we get in-depth about all the Losties, what makes them tick, why they do what they do, and ultimately - what they're doing on the Island.
Let's Get Lost with The Oceanic Three
Let's Get Lost 74 - Season 4: The Other Woman
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Ben Linus can turn a single sentence into a weapon, and “The Other Woman” hands him one of his sharpest moments. We’re back on our Lost rewatch podcast to unpack Season 4, Episode 6, where Juliet gets pulled into a bizarre set of orders, Harper shows up like a ghost with a grudge, and the Tempest station becomes the center of a mission that somehow feels urgent and underexplained at the same time.
We talk through why this is often considered the lowest-rated episode of Season 4, and what specifically makes it feel “off”: characters keeping secrets for no clear reason, conflict that could be solved with one conversation, and a flashback that raises great Juliet questions without fully bridging the gap to the hardened survivor we know. We also get into the Ben, Juliet, and Goodwin triangle and whether the episode uses jealousy and control in a way that deepens the story or just leans on a tired trope.
On the other side of the island, Ben plays Locke with surgical precision, using Charles Widmore and the idea of outsiders exploiting the island to push exactly the right buttons. And yes, we have to talk about the Jack and Juliet kiss, including the swoon-worthy line delivery and our honest take on their chemistry versus trust. If you’re into Lost recap and analysis, Ben Linus character study, Juliet backstory, the Tempest station mystery, and John Locke manipulation, this conversation is for you.
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Spring Weather And Canker Worms
AmandaWe're three best friends, and we love lost, and we love talking.
KipBut even more so, we love talking about lost.
TheresaSo join us for some good conversation. Laughs. Let's get lost together. Together. It always just makes us laugh.
AmandaStrange to me.
TheresaI don't know why I was laughing partly through.
AmandaI mean, it's funny. It's hard. It's you know, recording the same thing a couple times is a little bit hard. I think that was the like third go.
TheresaYeah.
AmandaWell, welcome everyone to this week's episode of Let's Get Lost. I'm Amanda, and I'm here with Teresa to my left. Hi. And Kip to my right.
KipYo.
AmandaAnd we are recording on a nice, beautiful day in the middle of May, and it's finally starting to get nice here.
TheresaAlmost end of May.
AmandaOh, yeah.
TheresaYeah, it ends in about a week.
AmandaOh man, it's going by so fast. It wasn't the nice. We live in Canada, as many of you know, and it's like stereotypically cold here, and that's always very funny to the rest of the world, but it has actually been unseasonably cold still for May. We're all single digits. Yeah.
KipWe're all just been grumpy.
AmandaIt's actually in double digits today, and it's supposed to be five like 30s by the end of next week. So okay, that's no.
TheresaThat's July. It's time.
KipIt's time.
TheresaIt's not time. It is time. No, we need a nice period of that's what today is. Early 20s.
KipOne day.
TheresaThat's a mid-20.
KipAnd it's from nine. Five degrees. Yeah.
AmandaStill snowing in parts of where we're from, like as of last week. So it's crazy. I'm not. I can't. I can't. So that's exciting. I want to dress.
KipIt's you figure you lived here for many years.
TheresaI have the same dilemma every year. I it's because I same I dress the same essentially all year.
AmandaI know.
TheresaMe too.
AmandaI don't have like lots of people have like a summer wardrobe and then take it. Do you do that? Yeah. You said you have you taken out your summer clothes?
KipIt's up in the closet ready. I haven't taken them out yet. But all my t-shirts, all my shorts.
TheresaLike this is a pajama shirt. Because I didn't, I'm like, I don't have AC in my car right now. So it's super hot. And I'm like, what am I gonna wear? Because I usually wear crew necks or sweaters.
AmandaIt is a rough, it's a rough transition time, but it's good. And there were so many people outside. And yeah, like for a Sunday, it was like super trafficy. It was very, it was very fun.
TheresaYeah, but it's almost the dreaded season, though.
KipOf what?
TheresaCanker worms.
KipOh yeah, that's pretty brutal.
TheresaAnd like I don't know how long it lasts.
KipI don't think there's any canker worms out here, thankfully.
TheresaThank God. I thought you were gonna say mosquitoes like a normal person. No, cankerworm season to me is worse than mosquito season. That's far. That's far. Because mosquitoes, yeah, they're annoying. They like buzz, you you hit them, whatever. Canker worms fall from the sky. That's true. And like I don't like walking into their silks. I know. No, I don't like I mean, no one likes that much.
AmandaUm yeah.
The Other Woman Setup
AmandaSo what are we talking about today, Teresa? Oh, today we're uh canker worm.
KipBesides canker worms.
TheresaYou know, I don't know if they have a lot of those other poured rain on her in this episode. And silks and them strung between trees, and you just look up and you just I think they have other skies just potted with black to worry about. Um okay, we're talking about um episode six from season four today, called The Other Woman, written by Drew Godard and Christina M. Kim, directed by Eric Lanouville. Lanouville? Okay. Juliet receives an unwelcome visit from Harper, who gives her orders from Ben to track down Charlotte and Faraday and stop them from completing their mission by any means necessary. Meanwhile, Ben warns Locke of an insurrection and offers him an enticing deal.
KipShould also say this is our 75th episode. No way. Wait, really? Like, oh, of our oh, actually crap.
TheresaThat's very impressive.
KipThis is our 75th episode.
TheresaOh my god, happy 75th anniversary episodes.
KipEpisodory?
TheresaAnd it's a Juliet episode.
KipWow.
AmandaThat's so perfect.
KipYeah, that's pretty cool.
AmandaThat is really cool. I can't even, it doesn't even feel like 75. I know. I think as we break it up so much that it doesn't feel like it's been years. It's been years. We've been doing this since what 2021, technically, like the end of it is when we started. Yeah, I think when we had the idea.
KipOh, yeah, but like recording?
AmandaNo, I think we like very minimally started in 2021.
KipOh, that's insane. That can't be right. That can't be.
AmandaYou guys are right. I just checked. Well, how would you just check? Why would you have checked that? Because Violet, our little niece, our little friend niece, um is just so angry.
KipWhat the fuck?
AmandaWas at the party, the launch party.
TheresaYeah.
AmandaAnd she was born in 2022. And she was very, very little, and we had been doing it for a while already when we launched the episodes. And we did it for a while before that, you guys. So it was, I think like end of 2021. We started.
KipCrazy.
AmandaAnd then we wanted to have a bit of a because we had it almost the whole season done, I think, before we released last the first season. So yeah. And then we took a bit of a break now as we had to explain to some people. I know I just checked. I know you're gonna check the social media. It's fine. How did you just check? You did not need to. Technically, it says established 2022 there.
KipOh yeah, right there, 2022.
AmandaAnd you made that sign for the party that we had in 2022, but we started then anyway. So we've been doing this for like four years, four to five years.
KipFour.
AmandaAnd we're on season four, which isn't that behind, but we did take obviously a bit of a bigger break right now. And uh people have been asking and reaching out to see if we're gonna get back on it. And if you're listening to this, you know we are. So uh you're welcome. But we're already in it. We're already in it, but we're uh doing it now.
KipYep. So anyway, the other woman.
AmandaThe other woman.
KipI'll tell you a little bit about it.
AmandaOkay.
Kip7.7 out of 10 on IMDB, 15 million viewers. Okay, days 94 to 95 on the island. Okay, and a big old zip for Sawyer nicknames.
AmandaBut but basically almost a big old zip for Sawyer. I know. I I was like, is he even in this? And then just read it.
KipJust little blep. Lil' playing some horseshoes early, being funny.
TheresaOh, I know, they're so cute.
KipYeah, so okay,
Trivia And Why Ratings Dip
Kiptrivia. Yeah. Are you ready for trivia? Okay, I have two questions only. True or false. Harper's appearance in the jungle is actually the man in black. M I B, as he's known.
AmandaI think it's false.
KipThat is correct.
AmandaI think it's one of those things where people want you to believe that they're not.
KipAnd it was refuted by Carlton and Damon.
AmandaOkay.
KipThey said nope. They didn't provide any other explanation, but they just said not smoky slash M I B.
AmandaI mean, sometimes it just is what it is on the island as well. It's like you do have to accept for a show that does have some crazy points, sometimes it is just there, they are still real people on the island.
KipYeah, and we'll get into this scene a little bit later. So just a little setting the groundwork, okay? Number two. This is the lowest rated episode of season four. Oh. One of only 14, because there's only 14 episodes this season, to rate less than an eight on IMDb. Which was the other one? It doesn't show IMDB ratings in there.
AmandaHave we already watched it?
KipNo.
AmandaOh. I do actually wonder. Give me a second.
TheresaWell, I don't want to ruin the rest of the thing for myself, though. I will do it. So I can't answer. I can't even remember the other episodes.
KipSo it it this is season four, right? Sorry, episode six. So you have I'm gonna say nine. I think between seven and fourteen.
TheresaI'm gonna say nine.
AmandaHold on. I think it's I think it's cabin fever.
KipBoth wrong. Episode ten. Damn it, so something nice. Oh, that's close.
AmandaOh no, yeah, that doesn't. I was reading it now. That doesn't sound very good. I was at a disadvantage.
TheresaOh no, I don't remember what happened.
AmandaYeah, no, that's fine. But only two less than eight.
KipSo that's pretty good.
AmandaThat's a good season. Very well recorded. From what I recall.
KipSo there you have it. You're right.
AmandaAnd it's short, and it was at the end of a writer strike, so it's kind of like it could have gone, it could have gone either way. So okay.
Teresa’s Stream Of Consciousness
AmandaWell, I think it's time we hear a bit more about what Teresa. We just heard about what Teresa doesn't remember, but what did Theresa experience today in Teresa's stream of consciousness?
TheresaAlso, I like that uh I like that um segue. Yeah. It was uh I thought you were gonna say what she does remember. I'm like, I did not remember this episode. Okay. Season four, episode six, the other woman. Ooh, I wonder who the other woman is. Oh, I love these Zen garden things. Oh, it's Juliet. Is this on Island? Off? I'm gonna say off because she's so different here. Maybe Early Island because she's like kind of meek. Um, who are you, ma'am? Okay, so gotta be Early Island. Sorry, why is she the big musean? God, this is kind of an awkward conversation. Where is this therapy session anyway? It's just at someone's house? You, Ben. I I'm sorry, where has she been living so far if it's been a week? Why are you giving her two beds and two baths if she's alone? Darling, I feel like you're gonna be here a lot longer than six months. Oh, and now look at you. Cute teamwork makes the dream work. I mean, valid question, son. Jen isn't wrong. You said friends. Why would you think otherwise? Like you can't keep secrets from people and then be annoyed when they don't know what's happening, or that they should have quote unquote known better. Oh god, the fucking whispers I forgot. Oh god, it's this lady. Absolutely not. What's her problem? Why is she creeping all creepy? What's the tempest? Wait, what gas? Why are we going there? When did this lady talk to Ben? I'm so confused. Juliette, just say no. What's with this cryptic shit? Oh, she's a real person. Oh wait, maybe not? What the fuck? Uh Jules, what happened? Why are you sad? Oh, Goodwin. Oh god, that's awful. That's so gross. Oh, she's gentle. Who's Henrietta? Well, he's not wrong. Fix isn't gonna happen on ASAP. Sorry, why does Harper hate her? Who could possibly hate her? Awkward. Oh wait, Jules is the other woman. Well, of course, because she knows. Because she's wise and smart. Help her with what? The relationship is so interesting to me. It's not raining where they are. Can't do what, Dan? Sorry, who's that? Oh, it's Kate. I have no idea where anyone is anymore. Why is Charlotte so unhappy with her again? Uh, pretty sure he's got a grenade in his mouth, so I don't think he's doing fine. Oh my god, Charlotte's a liar. Okay, Kate's smarter than your average bear. Um, okay, maybe we don't do that. I like that Juliet's still walking around with a gun in her hand. Very stressful. Being another is one of the best lines of the show. Oh, and now she's put her way to put her hair up. Ew, Ben, stop ogling. Ben, what the fuck are you gonna look at? You ain't no scientist. Uh-oh, Ben's gonna be so gelolo. Awkward interaction, no thanks. Wait, do you always make sandwiches for Ethan all the time? Or am I dumb? I'm sorry, just like who? What is this woman's problem? God, she's gotta go. Oh my god, awkward. You, why did you watch? Wait, what's happening here? What consequences? Oh, Ben, yeah, I can see that. Oh, you. I don't need to see that, but of course it's John. Uh, why, Claire? What's your plan? Okay, well, she's not wrong. Okay, I get it. Okay, fair point, Claire. I feel like Ben must have had LASIK or something. Didn't he used to wear glasses? How do you recognize rabbit right away when it's presented to you? Wait, why does numbered rabbit sound familiar again? Oh god damn it, John. Literally cannot sign enough. Please do not engage. Okay, but Ben's kind of funny though. Wait, why does Ben have laundry? Oh God, stop listening to him. I'll show you what. Seriously, just do not engage. Wait, why is Juliet swimming? Oh, it's r oh, it's a date. Jesus. Surprised they didn't provide a proper bathing suit for her, though. Uh Goodwin, can you not get divorced on the island? Uh pretty sure if Harper knows, Ben knows. Why is Goodwin not worried about Ben? Pretty sure he should be worried. Wait, what chemicals? Those are famous last words, my dude. Uh Ben sent ya cause he mad at ya. Well, these people and their stamina just running, running, running all the time. Uh-oh, it's Le Tiangle D'Amour. I've got pretty hair somehow in the jungle though. Is Gulliet is Juliet gonna be gone now? Yep, called it. As you know, the water's literally right there. Excuse me, what is going on? What's the deal? Okay, fair point, Ben. No one wants you. Okay, I safe, a code, here we go. Just one item in there? Red Sox? Well, put a new label on it then. What the fuck? Okay, what are you watching? Ah, it's Charlie Whitty. Why is he trying to find the Ace Land? Oh my god, who was captured? Ew. Poor guy. Or girl? Okay, fair point Ben. Um, that's terrifying that C dev just looks right into the camera. Oh, there was a file in there, didn't see that. Okay, but what is this gonna do for you now, John? And why use it now, Benny? Oh god, John, just stop. Okay, yeah, I actually want to know too. I don't get how this tracking shit works. When did Juliet change clothes? Or did she just put that shirt on? Isn't she hot as fuck? Oh, jeez, of course they disabled the panel, but of course there's also just a handle to the door? Girl, why did you drop your bag there? Girl, that is a lot of bread. Uh when is this now? Like is Goodwin and what's his name? Ethan still gone? And this is so awkward. You brought so many rolls. Who are Zach and Emma? Oh, the kids from the plane. Ugh, don't bring them up. Oh, don't bring Goodwin up. Oh, he's getting angry. He's getting jello. Moncomfy. Seriously, what is going on? This is so weird. Like, where are we? I don't even know. I can't even speculate what what's happening. Because you're cool with people on the island getting gassed? Uh because Daniel seems to care. Wait, what gas? I mean, holy shit. Julie's got good reflexes, goddamn. So, what what is happening? Why did they come here? How do you render a gas inert via computer? Oh my god, when Ben comes, it's never a good thing. Like, why does she get to read everyone's files if she's just here to save babies? Sorry about what? Oh right. Ben's such an asshole, he's so cruel, he could have just told her. God, what is he gonna say? I mean, I don't understand. Oh my god, Juliet, run, girl, he is crazy. He's literally insane. Wait, where's Dan? You're not gonna pick up your bag? Okay. Why doesn't anyone just talk up front and just say what they're doing? God. Kate's gonna be so mad when she finds out. Oh my god, they're so cute though. Oh my god, poor Juliet. Uh, maybe let's not let Kate see what's happening. Okay, but Jack, that was fucking hot. Well, shit. Um, I don't know how horseshoes works. What are we looking at? Oh god, this is right fucked up. John's a moron. Okay, so we're getting to a spot where Ben's getting more and more hilarious on screen, so that's fun. The end.
KipYeah. Ben was hilarious. So funny.
AmandaActually, uh, just for those listening, Kip always usually fills out our kind of board with talking points. And today he wrote great lines from the episode. And I will say I would also add, because he has a few from Ben, yeah, that we'll probably go through as we go through, but I would also add, um, I taped over the game to that. Because that was also very funny when he's yeah, he's like Red Sox, I taped over the game, like just always on it, right? Always on it. No matter what he's yeah, like he's in arguably, but it's so hard because like Harper said when she talks right at the beginning, Ben's where he like wants to be or whatever. So I what I was gonna say, he's so funny, and on top of it, even when he's in like kind of difficult situations, but it's hard to know if Ben is ever in a difficult situation.
KipExactly.
AmandaOr did he want to be locked up as John's prisoner? I don't know anymore, right?
KipI don't I don't I feel like he wouldn't want to be locked up. No, but like he knows he always has like a million different strategies in line that he can pull from to choose in whatever situation he's in. It's like he always knows how to react to any situation and think ahead.
TheresaYeah, and he definitely uses any situation that he's in to his advantage, very quick, and he can yeah, pivot very because he's like, Yeah, I'm trapped, but the person who trapped me and like a moron, and like will literally listen to even everything I say. So here we go. Let's have some fun, yeah, exactly.
KipJust toys with him.
TheresaEssentially, yeah, it just fucks around.
KipThe bunny, the number. That's remember he gave Sawyer a bunny with a number on it. That's what it was. Like that was season two, I think.
TheresaThat's what I'm like, there's something about it when they're in the cages, yeah. Oh my god, that feels like tricked him into getting that pace. Yes, right, right, right. And his heart rate can't go above like a certain yeah, yeah, yeah.
KipYeah. That was funny too. Did this rabbit have a number on it by any chance? Jesus.
AmandaNever mind. Yeah. Oh my god. Oh boy.
KipOh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's kind of a different episode.
Harper, The Tempest, And Lazy Writing
KipWell, let's just go through your initial thoughts.
TheresaOkay. I mean, we just heard yours. Yeah.
AmandaSo I'm gonna listen to someone else's. Um, so we do start kind of with Juliet, which I mean is always a pleasant way to start an episode. She and that's what sucks, is like it sucks that her episode is rated so poorly because she is delightful, and her backstory is actually quite compelling. So I wonder what it is about this episode that people don't connect with.
KipThere's a few things like the character Harper. Yeah, like she's never heard from again. It's kind of like the sheriff from season two. Like, she comes in, she's like this super important character, disappears, never to be seen again. Same with Harper, never to be seen again, she's no other episodes, and then like does that like magic appear in appearing and disappearing act, and yet it's like, okay, so is there something cool about Harper? Can she like Yeah, like what's the deal? Who knows? No one ever knows. Um, I think some of the points you brought up, like how lost is very much like no one explains anything because if they did, you know, the episode would be five minutes, so we gotta draw it. But this one was extraordinarily like ridiculous in terms of the whole gas thing, yeah. Like not telling them that that's what you're trying to do. And then even I think a lot of people do have issue with like the weird sort of love triangle with Ben, Juliet, and uh Goodwin, and the fact that Juliet like cheated on or Goodwin cheated on. Yeah, like that seemed a little out of character. Um just like all of these things could have been maybe done a little bit differently. It's it felt almost like just lazy writing.
AmandaIt just yeah, it felt kind of like they were trying to hit certain points, like to get kind of like tropey things into the show that they don't really need.
KipBecause like, even with the gas thing, I mean Charlotte was very irritating today or in this episode. But like, I think just a better way to have done it could have been just like even if Charlotte's like, oh, hesitation, I don't want to tell them Daniel, and he says something about there was there's gas on the island that's very dangerous, and we have been sent part of it to render it inert so that it can't harm anyone else. And Ben, they all know who Ben is, has used it in the past to kill people, so that's why we're here. Partly. Yeah, the islanders may not have trusted them right away or been like, or the you know, eight fifteeners, they might have been like, I don't know if I believe that, but let's go with you just to make sure you're telling the truth. And there could have still been tension, like there could have still been tension between them. But it was like this whole thing about no one ever says anything, and then it just ends in a battle. It's like, oh, we don't need a battle for everything.
AmandaParticularly what I thought was silly about that storyline is fine, maybe in the beginning, like, and even with the sneaking off part, like, okay, they're gonna sneak off in the middle of the night. Maybe they don't even have to try to go through that down, like down that rabbit hole of trying to explain it. Yeah, but it makes no sense to me why when they came across one person who like is relatively intelligent, and you guys know has a history of like being involved and stuff, why she couldn't be informed.
KipExactly.
AmandaLike, and instead, Charlotte hits her over the head.
KipThat's what I mean about like Charlotte.
AmandaCharlotte was the worst in this episode, but that's what I mean about lazy writing.
KipLike instead of having an explanation or like an actual dialogue, we'll just knock her out. Have Charlotte knock Kate out, and then they don't have to do anything. Yeah, it's like it's so dumb.
TheresaIt it makes it even worse, though, that at the end she's like, I'll explain everything to you. Yeah, well, what the fuck? Just do it at the beginning, then.
AmandaAnd that was simply to get her and Charlotte away from Jack. And I mean, also that killer line from Jack of No, I'll take their word for it or whatever, right? No, even like before that. I know we'll talk about that when we get there. We'll talk about that when we get there, but on likes. Even Jack kind of saying, like, I'll take their word for it or whatever. It's like Okay, see how easy this could have been, everyone? Like, just you could have just explained it to him and he would have I mean it.
KipI don't know, because he was pretty standoffish, like earlier on the beach, like about the ship thing. But at the same time, like, yeah, they could have easily tried. Something. And I agree. Like, tell Kate. No. Who cares?
AmandaAt that, at very at the very least, I feel like that scene was they could have brought Kate with them then. Like they could have tied her up even and been like trying to explain as they walk and have Charlotte be like the kind of bad guy being like, shut up.
KipAnd Daniel's taking the time to be like, hey, no, this is what it's not like they ever put anything out there, be like, we have to get to this gas before midnight tonight, or else it's gonna blow, which would have been insane. But there's no time limit. So like what's with the urgency of having to like lie to everybody and hide?
TheresaAnd like all of a sudden.
KipYeah, exactly.
AmandaYeah, it's it was it was kind of annoying. I like when Juliet's involved in things, and I like, like I said, that's why it kind of sucks. It's like I like an episode. And I think the her and Jack, or sorry, her and Goodwin. I know we've gotten like sprinkles of it in the past, so I obviously it's building on that, but I do think a little bit, even one more cutscene kind of exploring how they got together would have made it like make more sense to me. Because it does seem kind of out of nowhere. It does seem out of character that she would sleep with anyone's husband, let alone like the person who she's like her therapist who hates her. Like that seems like a bad idea.
KipAnd I also think like I think maybe the Harper character, the whole therapy plot line seems a little silly. Like, who's making her do this? Yeah. If you don't if they don't like each other, and they clearly don't, why are they there? Why does she have to have therapy? Like, and I think maybe they're trying to make it seem like they have this society going there, but it just seems kind of silly. And why is Harper or why are Harper and Goodwin, why do they have to be together? Juliet could still have a relationship with Goodwin to make Ben still feel jealous. Yeah, why does he have to be married? Exactly. Like, so those things doesn't add anything, I don't think.
AmandaIt just kind of makes her look like a bad person. Yeah. And this whole thing, like, and so that's why I can see why people are annoyed, because you essentially introduced a character, and you're right, it's a really good comparison to the sheriff, because this idea of oh, here we're introducing this like person in society that helps like them run it in a certain way. So it's like maybe that is part of it if they wanted to show that, but she's doing a terrible job. Yeah, and like I kind of got the impression that like everyone's like mandated to go to therapy as like a part of control and like to get information back to Ben. That could be but they also should have made that more clear then or like explored it more in other episodes or shown other characters sharing.
KipShow Harper sharing the files or Ben reading the file that clearly marks Juliet's therapy session, right?
AmandaYeah, and again, I agree, she doesn't have to have been married to Goodwin.
TheresaYeah, because it doesn't, it doesn't add anything, and like if they're it's not like they're like happily married and then Juliet came along and he's like and his, you know, his head turned or whatever. Like he's like, I've been sleeping on the couch for years. Like, so you're not even really.
KipWhat is the point of this?
TheresaLike, what's how like also you cannot get divorced, apparently. Why? Yeah, just if you have a therapist, I'm sure you have a lawyer on the island.
KipYeah, I wonder if they were married before the island because they probably don't have like a court system to sign the wedding certificate or whatever, or municipal, whoever does that, I don't even remember. But like so, maybe they can't do like a judicial system to get a divorce. But like it'd be a part, yeah.
AmandaLike they can just decide that they're not living, like exactly it's just such a weird thing. And the jealousy thing with Ben, I don't have an issue with as an I as a concept. I again just think it's kind of poorly executed in terms of like the whole like yeah, and and like what do we eventually find out what she means by looks like? Is he talking she's talking about his mom?
KipThat's the theory. I don't think we ever find out.
AmandaEw.
TheresaI know it's it's a very interesting does Ben have to do the island-mandated therapy. That sounds like a real issue. Well, you look like that.
AmandaWell, of all of them, even without that tidbit, I think Ben needs it the most.
TheresaYeah, no kidding.
AmandaBut you know, they say narcissists can sometimes use therapy to like become worse people. So maybe we don't want Ben to be in therapy.
KipAnd and the Ben Juliet obsession, I don't I agree in that I don't really see it as an issue, but a lot of people do, and that is also another reason why it's ranked so low is they they feel it's doesn't add anything, apparently, and they're never seen together on screen again for the rest of the show. So like this just sort of adds nothing at this point in the game, and whether or not that was intentional. I don't know for sure because like I I read quite a few comments about that though, as one of the criticisms.
AmandaWell, if you think about what you we have left for storyline, we only have two and a half seasons to accomplish that.
KipYeah, and I actually don't know when I know because especially next season tracks that that would be possible. Yeah, Ben as he is, yeah.
AmandaUm, what do you mean? But and again, that's why the season does feel stilted in some ways, right? And I and it might be again because it was truncated and because there's lots way on. But again, it just seemed like a way to kind of draw Jack and Juliet together.
TheresaYeah, we could have done that in other ways, I think. Like we've been kind of alluding to it for since essentially they met. Absolutely. So like I don't know that this is like the most I mean.
AmandaSeason three, not season two. That's right. Okay, so it wasn't quite as long ago that we were.
KipThe uh the bunny and the cages. I said season two, but yeah, you said three season three, that's right.
TheresaEvidence makes sense, uh but yeah, yeah.
KipBen and or Jack and Juliet.
TheresaYeah. I mean, I will say I like like their first kiss and like how we got there, but I don't know that we needed this whole situation
Jack And Juliet Kiss Chemistry
Theresato like get to that point.
AmandaBut I think that's why, because then we wouldn't have gotten the line, the most important line of this the show, when she's saying to Jack that What line? When she says to Jack, really? You didn't oh I thought as a Jack lover I and Teresa watched it together and we literally both were like, did you just say I know when I just literally need to remember it? So they're doing talking about whatever. He's like, he can't be near me, and like he thinks I'm his. He knows how and he knows how I feel about you, and then they kiss, and then he's like, Well, he knows where to find me. That's right.
TheresaYeah, okay. I've just got chills again. What a man. Pretty good. Holy shit. Her knees buckled at that point, like holy good.
KipI still had take as much time as you need. We have to talk more about that. That's my favorite moment.
AmandaBut that was like very because I sometimes I'm like Jack's whatever, but sometimes he is really swoony. Oh, I think straight up swoon. And that is one of those moments where you're just like, like, you know, every male loving human was like, huh, not me.
TheresaWell, even like the look on his face, too. I don't believe you weren't. I was just capped. I was like, whoa.
KipIt's funny. I was almost eye rolling.
AmandaWhat?
KipYeah, that's why I put thoughts on the kiss because I'm like, eh.
AmandaWell, the kiss itself was like that whole scene, right? Like I I have to say something, and I hate saying it because I love Jack and I love Juliet independently, right? Yes. And I I I want to say, like, I Jack it Jack is a beautiful man, like very attractive, like swoon-worthy, like we talked about. And she is a beautiful woman. Like, not again, I don't want to objectify anyone, but you know, they showed her that nice bathing suit scene. Like, this is a beautiful, like young, they're both vibrant, beautiful people. But for some reason, when they kiss, I feel like he's kissing his mom. Ew. Like it just feels so like not they don't have like a lot of chemistry. I don't find. Do you guys find they have chemistry? Like him and Kate do, like, whatever you might think about Kate.
TheresaLike, when they come together, I think the problem with their chemistry is that it like I think because like you're like, how do I explain this? For me, this is my this is just how I feel. I feel like Jack and Juliet and Kate and Jack, like you have this kind of like more raw, kind of like we were in this like traumatic thing together, we've like trauma bonded or whatever. And like they've had this kind of like longer history, whereas like Jack and Juliet, like she was like on the opposite side for a while there, but they still had like this kind of thing going on, and it just doesn't feel as like electric.
AmandaThat that's probably what it is, exactly. Like you said, and that's why what I mean about like that mom type feeling, like it feels more like platonic love than it does like like passionate, like you're explaining. So that does make sense. It's not and it's not her, like it's like because I don't feel that way with Goodwin, and I don't feel that way with anyone else she may or may not come into contact with, but I I do feel for some reason I just that's what the the when you say thoughts on the kiss, my first thought was kind of like I feel it from her, like that she feels for him. I don't really feel it back from him that much. I mean, this line was swoonworthy, but um I don't know. I don't but but I don't get it. I and again, I I like Juliet more than I like Kate, but I would rather him be with Kate than yeah, they have more chemistry for sure.
TheresaYeah, I just like I said, I see it more of like a like deep friendship, yeah. Of like where they have like this like innate trust in each other. Yeah, like he trusts Juliet like absolutely and that is sweet to watch. It is, but I think that's the relationship. Like, I don't see it as like this like forbidden, like passionate thing between them. It's kind of like so. When they kiss, I'm like, it kind of it honestly kind of feels like two best friends who've been together who have been best friends for 10 years, and everyone's like, you guys should be a couple, and one drunken night, they're like, let's give it a go. And they're like, actually, this is awful. Like, this is not okay, this is not it.
AmandaI actually think the alcohol would probably spur on even more of a better reaction between your example.
TheresaThe morning after.
AmandaBut you know what I mean, right?
TheresaLike the like where you're just kind of like, should we should we try? And then you tried, and you're like, Yeah.
AmandaI didn't feel anything for those two when they but like I said, I did, I did feel like that was very swoonworthy when he was like, you know, sort of find me. And the worst part is like that does nothing for me in life. Like this, the macho, like tough, like I'll fight like scorched earth for people, like protective man thing. Like I actually find that usually like disgusting because like women don't need that, like women, you can do that for yourself. But for some reason, Jack is just there's something about that guy.
KipHe can sell it, he can sell it, and you're like, Oh, okay, Jack.
TheresaHe can sell it, yeah.
AmandaI hope he does find you, and I hope you guys kill each other. Like, what? No, that's not at all romantic. But for some reason, when there's nothing.
TheresaBut there's also this like nice idea that like obviously she's very capable, as we saw, like she can take care of herself, she doesn't need him. But like the idea that he would still be willing to like go to bat for her is like really nice.
AmandaI think the idea too that like someone would take it seriously because clearly Goodwin would just kind of dismiss her. I don't I don't get that part.
TheresaI feel like everybody seems to get the vibe that like Ben's like crazy, yeah, like a crazy person. Yeah, and he's just like, Why are you worried? Like, what your wife knows that he's crazy, everybody else seems to know that he's crazy, and you're just like, No, I don't see it.
KipI mean we don't know everybody else knows he's crazy because they're they're village people, and like is Goodwin an average village person? But if he's if he's just sort of running one of the yeah, if he's kind of one of his lead henchmen, he should know because like he's but it may be hubris on his part too, of just like, oh, I can handle it.
AmandaThat could be right. That's true.
KipWasn't the brains talking, if you know what I mean?
TheresaYeah, it's a penis. I'm just gonna say it outright as enigmatized.
KipSo so that could be, yeah, because yeah, it it he should know what Ben's capable of.
AmandaYeah. But yeah, so we're kind of going all over the
Ben Manipulates Locke With Ease
Amandaplace.
KipBut let's talk about Locke.
AmandaJesus Christ. Do we have to? I'm just kidding. I know we do, I know we do. Because it's literally getting like it's it's getting absurd.
KipAbsurd, exactly.
TheresaHe's gotta drill a hole into that or like a like a slit or uh like male slot. Never say the word slit again. A slit. He's gotta he's gonna slot put a male slot in there or something and just shove the food in. I know do not talk to the she's every time he can't help himself.
AmandaIt's but that's exactly because he could also send other people, but he just wants to put himself, he wants to talk to he's like craving it. He wants to best him.
KipExactly, he thinks he can, and he cannot.
TheresaIt hasn't happened yet. No, it's not gonna happen. It's not going to. Jesus.
KipSo, okay, uh, yeah. Feeds Ben, Ben tantalizes him with like a little bit of info, intel, blah blah blah.
TheresaAnd has the insurgence happened yet or whatever? Revolution, I think. Revolution, yeah. Because of course I mean, same day that Claire is like, should I talk to Miles?
KipIt was kind of silly for Claire to have that conversation. It's nice to see Claire because she's really doing a whole lot this episode. But she brings up good points, yeah, and I like that she didn't fall for John Locke trying to like manipulate her by like in invoking Charlie's memory, right? Like that was a low blow bite.
TheresaYeah, that was, that really was.
KipAnd she's just like, that's not what Charlie said. All he said was, and then is like, so yeah.
TheresaNo, she she made a fair point. Yeah. Shouldn't we find out whose boat it actually is?
KipExactly.
AmandaYeah, it did seem interesting that it was Claire. I guess maybe if it had been someone more forceful, like Sawyer means Sawyer, then it would have felt more like a revolution or insurgency. That like you know, I don't know, like it was just very strange because maybe they just needed to fill an episode order for her. I don't know. That's that's what it felt like, honestly. Yeah, or maybe to show that even the most like like because Claire was one of the first people to kind of stand behind him, right? But again, really was just standing behind Charlie and what Charlie had said, but first person, so I guess showing kind of the cracks that even like the most kind of like passive, loyal people in his team have. Maybe it was supposed to show us like what is he thinking that if like she's starting to question him, like maybe it is looking really bad. Yeah, I don't know. But he she got into his head and then yeah, somehow Ben knows everything that's going on and knows exactly when to you know drop certain things on him.
KipHe's just he's got very good intuition. He does, and he can read John and he can probably sense things for sure.
TheresaYeah.
KipUm, and he can manipulate John like nobody's business, so he knows what strings to pull.
TheresaAnd John's just very like obvious. Like when he when he's triggered by something Ben says, it's like immediate. Like there's no poker face there.
KipNo.
TheresaHe immediately like he'll turn around and be like, What? What did you say? Like just subtlety, John. Subtlety. Be subtle.
KipDoes not know how. Be chill. So what do we think of of Ben's reveal, the Red Sox tape?
AmandaI mean, what he says makes so much sense, right? Like, and that's it. That's that is why Ben, by the way, is the most dangerous kind of villain because he's a narcissist, he's manipulative, he's very, very smart, and he he does have most of his like craziness is rooted in something real. So it's totally believable that people would want, like he said with the mold thing. 5,000 people came to see mold in the shape of something on a house. How many people are gonna come and see you when you like literally were paralyzed and now can walk again?
KipYeah.
AmandaSo this idea that there are people like Charles Whitmore, who we've also as an uh I mean, John doesn't know this, but the audience has seen as not like the nicest person is involved in trying to get to and exploit the island makes total sense and would be something John would be worried about. Absolutely.
KipBecause he loves the island so much. That's the perfect thing to say to get John on his side.
AmandaYeah, yeah. That someone's going to hurt his precious islands. Yeah. Yeah.
KipOkay, we're gonna can we do a little bit of a spoiler talk real quick?
TheresaPlease. Spoiler time. Spoiler for me too. Probably.
KipNot necessarily. Um spoilers ahead. So we know Ben's lying about all he knows about Charles Woodmore. Sure. Because he knows a heck of a lot more, right? So my question is when did he make this like faux dossier on Charles Whitmore just in case he had to like prove to John Logan?
TheresaI'm sorry, I'm sorry, what?
KipThat was a little funny to me. Just that like he has this like fake dossier on Charles Woodmore with select knowledge.
TheresaIt's a fake dossier, yeah.
AmandaBen knows a lot about him.
KipIt's real different but it's selective information. He's not he's he's he tells John this is all I know about Charles Woodmore, and it's absolutely not all he knows about Charles Woodmore. I kind of assume they have a big history together.
AmandaThat's the thing, it's like it's not like Charles Woodmore is not like a philosoph like a person on a videotape to Ben.
KipYeah, right?
AmandaLike he is involved with Ben.
KipThey they know each other well, yeah, and he knows exactly what Charles wants with the island, and it has nothing to do with exploiting it for healing purposes.
AmandaSo it's one of those things where I believed him. Well, that's he's good.
KipBut like that's what I mean. That's why I just just very briefly, I just thought it was funny how we had this like dossier with select info just in case he has to prove to someone which probably he would have. He probably has like 16 versions of that.
AmandaHe's like, okay, this has 60% accurate information on it.
KipSafe behind every painting.
AmandaThis is what if Penny comes and she like fills him a bit, and then like we have to like this is if Desmond is the one who comes, like totally uh you know, so anyway, it's but he's just always like 10 steps ahead more, honestly.
KipYeah, he's got a web.
AmandaYeah, it's crazy.
KipUm and then just because we'll end with the John Locke side, like the village people is the best new version, yeah, is that we finally get to see Sawyer and Hurley playing a game of Hershoes, which is very cute. So cute. And they just see Ben. I know this is the very end of the episode, but like it wraps up their side, and then they just see Ben with like laundry and towels and walking, and he's all happy, and they're like, what the fuck? Like, see you guys at dinner. Oh, I know that line of he was on fire this episode.
AmandaHe was that's one thing about like the lazy writing. I think it's lazy on everyone else because everyone poured all of their writing and creativity into Ben this episode.
KipBut it's also I think just like Michael Emerson is so amazing. He can sell anything.
AmandaI was gonna say, like, it there's not a part of me that isn't convinced that he might have even just improvised that line at the end. Could have been dinner, like that could totally be Michael Emerson thing. I'd be interested. That'd be the if I ever got to meet Michael Emerson, I would ask him like how much lines on Lost were improvised or changed. Yeah, modified.
KipSo funny. All right, back to the main plot.
The Tempest Mission Logic Check
AmandaSo yeah, and it's very interesting, quite candidly, if they hadn't just like going back kind of this the main story-driven part of this like island crap. Okay. If they hadn't, if I had skipped the like previously unlost, I actually probably would not have even remembered that they are there to do something else that involved gas masks. And like, so it it does seem like maybe this storyline was going to be like three episodes, and then they just couldn't do it anymore. I wonder. And then they're also like, Oh, we haven't done a Juliet thing about, so let's just try to throw all of this into one really silly quick episode because the that storyline isn't actually even that compelling.
KipNo, like I mean, yeah, I guess Ben could use the gas again, but like Charlotte, and maybe she's just like over-exaggerating, decided he'd kill everyone on this island. It's like, but that's not what he wants. Like, he wants some people dead, but he's not gonna kill everybody because then that would include him, I guess, unless he had a gas mask. But it just, yeah, it seems a little ridiculous. And I don't even think that we ever go back to the Tempest. Like, cool place, neat to see, but I don't know if we ever even visit it again.
AmandaAnd even that, like, let's hear more about that. Like, what does Juliet know about it? What, like, you know what I mean? Like, there just could have been a lot more exposition on it. Because it is a really cool place, like that having something like that on the island, yeah. That's crazy. Like, that's crazy.
KipI know it would have been neat to hear a bit more about that. Maybe like that would have been more of the flashbacks of like Goodwin's works. Clearly, he was working with chemicals, and that's meant to infer he's working on the tempest there. But like, what are they doing there? Why did they need it?
AmandaI exactly, and I I really I do just have to say, we're four seasons in, we're a season and a half in with Juliet and Ben and the others and all that stuff. And how is it that the therapist whose husband you were banging, who hated you, comes to tell you that Ben wants you to do something and you just trust it? Like Juliet.
KipYeah, that seems a little out of character too. Yes.
TheresaYes.
AmandaLike the second he was like, This is what I want to do, you should have gone to Jack and be like, This is what they want me to do. That's probably not real.
KipYeah.
AmandaWe should probably do the opposite, or at least have a conversation about it, right?
KipWhy would she trust Ben and Harper?
AmandaYeah. Of all people. And so I did struggle with that a little bit. I know it's hard. I know that. There's a lot going on. I know that Harbor tried to kind of like convince her, right? That like, you know, he it's for everyone's best interest, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I know that Charlotte and Faraday are kind of on people's radars being a little untrustworthy. But like Teresa said, in her stream of consciousness, like Jin didn't tell them anything because they're all supposed to believe that they are on their side. So it just, I don't, it's not clear to me what people believe, what they don't, what they think of them. Yeah. It was very confusing.
KipYeah.
AmandaYeah.
KipIt was a little all over the place.
TheresaYeah. Yeah. A little bit. A lot it a bit. Whole episode kind of.
KipBut so then if we were it was kind of like the big the first full flashback episode we've had in a very long time. Like because it wasn't flash forwards. It wasn't flash, the other one.
AmandaYeah. So when we say it was flash, the other one. When we say it was that there were like no more flashbacks after whatever episode in season three. But we meant more for like off island. This is still technically an on-island.
KipIt is a flashback.
AmandaFlashback, but it was a good one. And it I like I said, I like seeing her back story. I like seeing how where she got again. I don't know that her journey from like meek, mild O V G Y N to like badass holding a gun is that well developed in her flashbacks that they give us. Like she seems to always kind of be a bit of a wuss.
KipYeah. Right? Like, where did she learn to fight?
AmandaYeah.
KipWhere did she learn Latin? Where did she learn all of these things?
AmandaLike, how do we even go from like the day Goodwin is sent off, like when they crash, to how she talks to Jack when he's captive?
TheresaYeah.
AmandaThose are two very different people.
KipIt's not quite matching up.
TheresaNo, you're right. I forgot about that. Like the timeline on that would be like months. Like weeks, maybe even.
AmandaSo like it just it it actually doesn't make sense.
KipYeah.
AmandaAnd and again, like it's it is always possible that everyone has all of these parts of themselves and just as as necessary they manifest. But I just think because she's so cool and it would just be nicer to give her a little bit. Yeah. But I think that's maybe just a product of coming in on season three. And like they've got so season three, they had so many characters. But anyway.
KipAnd there, and I I will give I don't know how accurate, I know it's accurate in some ways, but we can give them a bit of the benefit of the doubt, knowing that season four got kind of fucked over by the writer's strike. So they weren't able to explore everything they wanted to. So we'll just whenever something isn't great in season four, but ah, damn writer's strike.
AmandaAnd like again, we won't get into it too much, but there was like it's come out in years that there were some issues with the writer's room around this time. So who knows, right? But still very good. I'm glad that they still are concentrating and showing us some of Juliet because I do find her to be so lovable. But and she's so funny. Like that line, I to this day, when they're walking through the forest and they're talking about therapy, and she's like, Oh, you had a therapist, and she says it's very stressful being another Jack.
KipYeah, I love that line.
AmandaI to this day remember hearing that for the first time, and I would still sometimes quote that back. That is one of the funny so funny things.
KipIt's so good.
AmandaYeah, it's so good.
KipSo, like her this story gave a lot of good one-liners, a lot of good one-liners, and um, and we got some tidbits, like now we know it's Charles's boat, we know who's and we because we were even though you and I knew earlier we were speculating, you know, whose boat is it, that kind of thing. But like, so you get that, and then you get the tidbit that um uh Ben's gonna tell John who his person on the man on the boat is. I still don't know who it is. You should know because I thought they were gonna sit.
TheresaThat was the grossest swallow, first of all. Keep it in. Um yeah, he's like, I wonder who the man on the boat is. And then he's like, You don't want to sit down for this. And I'm like, I'm sitting, I'm ready.
AmandaBut no, they're gonna show you, they're not gonna just have him. I would like them to I know, and they will, you're getting there, and it's gonna be very funny.
TheresaThen Amanda turns around and she goes, Do you actually still not know who it is? And I'm like, No, he didn't tell me anything, but there's always so many okay.
KipThere's a there's a big criticism because he's credited on the opening credits for this whole season. Yeah, and so and therefore it's very frustrating. Yeah, exactly.
TheresaI have not noticed the opening credits though, and I don't understand why I know it's so strange.
KipOkay, so okay, so that's why I mean like why you should know because like he is credited on the opening credits as starring, starring, not guest starring.
AmandaNo, he's in like the the main. So I remember one or two episodes ago and like going back and checking because I'm like, I saw the name, but I hadn't been watching it closely. So I was like, is it? And then I remember there's some sort of name that comes after it that makes me think we were in the opening, like the main one, because I'm like, that's definitely someone who's so then I went back and sure enough, he's just in the main and I was so frustrated because I'm like, this makes no sense. Like, how is this? But I found that frustrating. Um, that's that's annoying. That is really annoying. Another little thing that I just thought was interesting. This is more about character development and just character consistency. I really liked the scene when they had dinner, like Juliet and Ben. Yeah, and they're talking about the kids.
KipYeah.
AmandaAnd I was like, what what kids are for some? It's the kids they took from the Taylor's, right? And then she's like, Yeah, they've been asking about their k their parents or their mother in Los Angeles. What should I say? And Ben's like, they'll stop.
KipI know.
AmandaOr like they'll and I was just like, I actually got chills. I was like, Yikes, that is exactly how you would expect. Like, yeah, oh. So just seeing like kind of like and they were on the list, right? So we're getting a little bit of stuff like that. Who are we to question the list, Juliet? Like, yeah, creepy, creepy, yeah, big time.
Goodwin Fallout And Ben’s Obsession
KipSo let's talk about Ben and Juliet. Like their thing.
AmandaUm their thing, because it leads to the best scene. Yeah.
KipSo like good or not, Goodwin. Harper implies ends obsessed with her because she looks like her. We're don't know who her is, but everyone believes it's supposed to be his mom. Yeah. So he's obsessed with her. Or maybe it's not. Maybe it's that girl from remember when he was a kid during the purge?
AmandaOh, the swing girl.
KipYeah.
AmandaMaybe that's supposed to be that makes way more sense. Why does everyone think it's his friend's creepy in the parents?
KipBecause I've just thought, what if it's her, the swing girl? Yeah. That he killed.
TheresaNot much better.
AmandaIt's either the swing girl he killed or his dead mother who appears to him as an apparition.
TheresaWait, the swing girl is the girl that gave him the doll? Yes. Yeah. So that would make more sense because you know, he killed her, but now he's like, I can actually have her this time. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. That would make more sense than, you know. Or he's like, my mom died, and I can actually have her this time.
AmandaEither way, it's very I'd I'd rather the mom was probably it's wildly.
KipIt's gotta be a swing girl. I don't even remember her name.
AmandaAnd that's probably why she wasn't as memorable.
KipYeah. So so he imply or she implies that he's obsessed with her because she looks like her, and um she's got this chip on her shoulder against Juliet from the get-go.
AmandaCertainly feels like it's which makes no sense because she didn't start off sleeping with her husband.
KipI know, I don't get it either. Like it's so weird.
AmandaMaybe she was just maybe it was one of those things where knowing because I thought about that too. The first scene, she's a terrible. I think I wrote that down. I was like, she is a terrible therapist. Yeah, I said Harper's the world's most combative therapist, like from the get. Like, just and so she either hates her job, which we can't really know, but then Tom says she's good.
KipYeah, yeah, well yeah. Tom like defends her kind of job.
AmandaOr maybe it was that she knew she was having issues with Goodwin. She knew, like, and I I I have there's a part of me that thinks everyone does kind of want to be in Ben's good graces. And then, like, maybe this woman could this beautiful doctor who's gonna come in and save everyone. Maybe she was just feeling a little bit like she might take my husband, she might take Ben.
TheresaI don't know why she was like, Why would she assume that that might that Juliet might take her husband? They haven't even met at this point. But that's what I mean.
KipLike, maybe she's just yeah, like we shouldn't be left to speculate on that. Like, that was weird to just have her so combative at the beginning.
AmandaAnd it's like kind of misogynistic because it's kind of just like making this like harpy woman come in and be angry at like that's very much like the time.
KipOne of the big no, one of the big criticisms of the writers of Lost is they don't write the female characters that great, like, and very much that sort of stereotypical misogynistic view over everything.
AmandaLike, I'm gonna be angry at this beautiful woman came in because like she's beautiful. I'm and I'm threatened by her, even though I have no actual concrete reason yet to feel that way. Oh, and by the way, all my fears are gonna come true.
KipAnd they did, and she followed them and watched them.
AmandaOh, why did she have to say watch?
TheresaWell, you just see if I saw my partner cheating on, like if I knew that that it was, you know, say the minute they kissed, I would leave.
AmandaYeah, I wouldn't. Well, some people do want to see though how far they take it. Yeah, and then they can't.
TheresaWell, if I watch them, then the minute penetration occurred, I would leave.
AmandaEither way, I'm not staying. You have now used the word slit and penetration in this podcast. You have one more strike before you're out.
KipWhat was pinoose?
AmandaPinoose. I'll give her that one.
TheresaYou're giving me painus.
AmandaYou get a passive pay noose, but you're on your third strike for weird. What am I not allowed to say?
KipI we won't know until you do it.
TheresaOkay, fine.
KipBut anyway, so like it it's a very odd dynamic. And then she meets Goodwin, confesses she hates Harper to Goodwin, and Goodwin's like, oh, that's my wine. That was awkward to say the last. That's very funny.
TheresaWell, just in Poquito.
KipAnd then, yeah, like so. Anyway, anyway, it all comes down to this. Goodwin and Juliet start sleeping together. Ben is suspicious when they have that little interaction with the sandwich. And then he knows immediately what's going on, and um, he's jealous. He's a jealous boy, and then like Goodwin is dismissive of Juliet's fears, which are brought on by Harper's fears. And is it intentional that he sends Goodwin to the Taylor's? Or is that what we're supposed to do?
AmandaOr is he just the best man for the job?
KipYeah, like is that what we're supposed to do by including that scene?
TheresaI think I think it was deliberate.
KipYeah.
AmandaI think that's what we're supposed to. I think at the very least, maybe it wasn't deliberate because how could he have known that, right? And Ethan and Goodwin are clearly both among some of the more capable, able bodies. Yeah, but it certainly was intentional to continue to have him. Like when they have that conversation later.
KipYeah, and I think maybe not in like when he sends him initially, it's maybe just to get him away from Juliet, right? But not to send him to his death. I don't think that's what he was going to do.
TheresaNo, no, I don't think he could have at that time. I don't think he could have like foreseen that.
KipInteresting to hear him say Goodwin's um advocating for Anna Lucia and that she could be a good member of their group, and I don't see it. Like that was an interesting little tidbit. It was like to include that. Maybe it could just be a little Easter egg, but I thought it was like well, it was interesting.
AmandaIt it was it that was actually very I found emotional for a few reasons because A, if that's true, if she was if he was advocating for her and she ends up killing him, like that's just another kind of tragic, yeah, big misunderstanding, misstep on Anna Lucia's part. But also this idea that like anyone saw her as being on their kind of side is very telling about where she was at.
KipYeah.
AmandaSad. But I'll I forgot how fucking brutally she murdered him.
KipYeah, I know. Well, murdered. Oh, I mean not the right, but it was south of his like he fell.
AmandaLike on the Yeah, so I I forgot how brutal his dad was. Yeah, exactly.
KipYeah, but yeah, it was pretty brutal. And so then he takes her to see his corpse.
TheresaAsshole. That was so fucking cruel.
AmandaAnd as they were walking there, I was like, is this what I was like, I think that's what's about to happen. And when she's like, oh my god, and like Brendan was like, Eek, he has been dead for a little while.
KipYeah, yeah, yeah.
AmandaHe was blue, and that and that okay, so this is a scene that I am very interested what you guys think about because Ben confesses, I guess, for lack of a better word, about his like obsession with her by saying, you know, I brought you here, I did this. How do you not know yet that you're mine? And it's a very like disturbing admission or acknowledgement, I guess, really, because it's everyone kind of knows. But to hear it in his own words, to hear him kind of lose it a little bit was like very weird. But then he comes back with takes as much time as you need. And that was very funny. Yeah. So do you was that a crack in his armor, that little like thing, and then that was him kind of writing it again, or was the whole thing calculated like Ben is?
KipI think it was a crack. I think he he lost it a bit. And this was just like he's he's very good at manipulating people and getting them over to his side by playing the long game. And then I think he just all of this leading up and Juliet just wasn't buying it. Goodwin wasn't really threatened by Ben, and maybe that also pissed him off. And then it just like it finally cracked and everything came out about yeah, and then the the the line for me, your mine, was a little cringy. Um however, with the correction right afterwards, it just it's so perfect, yeah. Like it if you didn't do that, it would have been like so awful and cringy and just be like, Like if they just left you with your mind and then like cut to black, you would have been like, This is no, I can't watch his show anymore. But then just to follow it up with take as much time as you need, like it's just like it's peak bend for me. Like it's just like so amazing, like just like uh awful, but just so well delivered, and just like shows his character exactly like you say, like he had a chink in his armor, he he very rarely, if ever, loses control, and he did in that moment, yeah, and then quickly corrected himself.
TheresaYeah, I agree with you.
KipYeah, very good scene. Very good.
AmandaIt's it's one of my favorite Ben moments of the whole show, and it's just it the acting is like he goes, and like it is over the top, but he doesn't play it too over the top. Like his acting, I think with another actor, it would have even been worse. Absolutely, but then to just yeah, I'd be like, Thanks much time, you need like it's just such a flip. Like, he just he can do no wrong.
KipAnd it's a good window into him as a character, too, to how easily he can make that flip and do that switch.
TheresaLike, it's freaky.
AmandaAnd his mask goes right on, and he's just yeah, so I mean, like those little those little glimpses to me today in this episode were very good for Ben, and that's what would drive my rating that you'll hear later, a bit higher than the average, because that little flip of his kind of demeanor and mood, and then like I said, that little bit of they'll stop asking like about the kids. Like it's just very quick to be like, well, like I'm not even gonna try to tell you something to say, or they'll just they'll get over it. Like, it's like yeah, he does have these weird moments where you're just like he is not well, you guys, but he is carrying very fun to watch, very fun to watch.
TheresaHe's he's one of the characters that is the hardest to to give and take points from. Yeah, I bet because he's fucking hilarious, but goddamn he's evil.
AmandaWell, I I I think that's funny because I've thought about that before when it comes to Ben, because Ben's obviously always at the bottom of the list, which like when we're thinking about like any sort of morality to it, like he should be. But depending on how you like if we didn't take anything out and it was just more about like how much enjoy like joy it was to watch him or how well acted he was, he'd probably be at the top of the list, right?
TheresaYeah, like he it's it's funny, like this is the perfect episode to like kind of um talk about that is like he gets points for these like hilarious one-liners, but he loses points for mass murder, like things like mass murder, things like you know, bringing Juliet to see Goodwin's body, like that's that's not like a nice thing to do. You don't get points for that, obviously you get points taken away. Yeah, but then you say take as too much time as you need, and you get like plus 15. So, you know, he's he's he's one of the harder ones.
KipYeah. Should we should we get into it?
TheresaShould we hear how we all ended up? Because so many people were in today, um it moved around a little bit. Well, I don't think it moved around, but I just have to say one last thing.
AmandaDid Kate get any points for how beautiful her hair was even after getting hit in the head? She had a beautiful head of hair. She did, yeah, yeah. It was very nice. That's all I have to say.
TheresaBut um I don't know, I don't remember now.
Scores, Ratings, And Next Tease
TheresaUm so Ben comes in at number 16, negative 700, then Charlotte with negative 130, Miles, negative 125, then we're in the positives, with Lapidus with 75, Faraday with 175, Juliet with 785, Kate with 840, Locke with 895, Claire with 905, Desmond with 1035, Sun with 1770, Jin uh starts at the top five with 1820, Jack is at number four with 1,945, sorry's at number three with 2230, Said's at number two, two hundred two thousand eight hundred and fifty, and Hurley again, our king, three thousand one hundred and thirty.
KipThere we go.
TheresaI guess it's time for our episode rattings.
KipRuttings.
TheresaI feel like this is not gonna be like last episode where we all play it at the same time. No, we can't. I mean, we could try and then see where it is on the spectrum for everybody. One, two, three, eight, seven point five. Oh, okay. Okay, yes, okay.
KipFrom seven to seven point five to eight. Alright, interesting.
TheresaAll right. Shall we start at the bottom or the top?
KipSure. Okay, sure. I did this thing where I will I raked them separately, like for different parts. Like different subparts. Yeah, so flashback I gave five out of ten. On island stuff I gave six out of ten. Ben got ten out of ten. Yeah.
TheresaBen is his own category. Ben gets his own category.
KipYeah, for this this one. So it's seven out of ten.
TheresaOkay.
AmandaI like it.
TheresaUm, yeah, I just thought uh kind of like we said, like some of the stuff was just kind of like off character for Juliet and it didn't really explain. Like, obviously, the conversation with Ben is how she ends up being like, fuck you, Ben, but like doesn't really explain all the like badassery that kind of surrounds her. Like that she's been training. I don't know. Like, I doesn't make any sense. Um and honestly, the line at the end when Charlotte's like, I can explain everything to you, really just like took you out of it. Yeah, like I was just kind of like Yeah, where was that 12 hours ago? It just kind of like ruined like if she hadn't said anything and Kate maybe like held it to her head and was like, You're gonna tell me everything, she's like, Okay, fine. You know, but she was just like, I'll just tell you everything. Like it was just so willingly given. It just kind of like, what do we do all this for? Yeah, especially when Kit points out rightfully that there was no timeline.
AmandaNo, there was none. So it just it it kind of I was like, uh. I fair. Yeah. Um, I gave in an eight because I just it's just innately difficult for me to rate this show too too low unless it's a Kate episode. Um I was gonna say, you've definitely given some low number. I think I gave it a one at one point. Um but Ben really does. And it's not just because people will be like, oh, you love Juliet, but it it's actually I I agree with Kip, it's Ben that drives it up for me. Those little like kind of nuances with his character. He is, I don't I don't know how what the writer's room looks like on this show, but if there was like one kind of person who has really had a really good handle on Ben's character or whatever it might be, or if it is just a combination of my climate, but he's just even in an episode that would draw your rating low, he just elevates it. So big time. He does. That's why I thought, yeah. Okay, well, hopefully next week's episode is a little bit more um exciting.
KipG uni.
TheresaIt is.
AmandaIt's G unit. But you know what I'll tell you this, Tracy, you get some answers to a couple things you I don't want to know. Okay.
TheresaI just know that I don't want to know.
AmandaOh, okay. Well, I guess we'll see if you really end up not wearing off. That's you're lucky we're over.
TheresaOh, I was gonna Is that the third one?
AmandaI think so. Goodbye. From Oscars.