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Let's Get Lost with The Oceanic Three
We're your Oceanic Three: Theresa, Amanda, and Kip. Join us as we get in-depth about our favourite television show - Lost! We talk about everything: The Island, The Survivors, The Tailies, The Others, The Myths, The Theories, and on and on and on, but we also talk about how Lost changed the television landscape when it came out and how it still reverberates to this day.
Most of all, though, we always come back to how Lost is primarily a character-driven show. For every myth and mystery, five incredible character stories were told. They were complex, mysterious, beautiful, and sometimes challenging to watch - but the characters and their interwoven lives brought Lost to a different level unlike anything ever seen on television.
We would love it if you joined us as we get in-depth about all the Losties, what makes them tick, why they do what they do, and ultimately - what they're doing on the Island.
Let's Get Lost with The Oceanic Three
Let's Get Lost 79 - Season 4: Cabin Fever
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
A creepy cabin in the woods. A man in a rocking chair who claims he can speak for Jacob. A drugged-out Claire saying the baby is “where he’s supposed to be.” Then Lost drops a line so big we almost laugh: we have to move the island. We’re unpacking all of it as three best friends rewatch Lost Season 4, “Cabin Fever,” and try to separate island truth from the stories characters desperately want to believe.
We spend a lot of time on John Locke, because this episode is basically a character diagnosis. From his premature birth and miserable luck to Richard Alpert’s infamous childhood test (compass, knife, comic, and more), the show keeps teasing that Locke is special while showing how easily he can be steered. We talk about the real-world inspiration behind the test, why Richard reacts so harshly, and how Locke’s need for purpose makes him vulnerable to manipulation, whether it’s Ben, the island, or whatever is wearing a familiar face in that cabin.
On the freighter, things get uglier. Keamy is out of control, the crew is panicking, and the time drift between the island and the ship makes every decision feel even riskier. We question the logic of the escape plan, mourn the few level-headed people left aboard, and try to figure out why anyone would choose to stay.
If you’re rewatching Lost, love deep-dive TV recap podcasts, or want sharper context for the mythology around Jacob’s cabin and “move the island,” hit play. Subscribe, share with a fellow Lost fan, and leave us a review, what do you think Locke is being set up for?
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Cold Open And Welcome Back
AmandaWe're three best friends, and we love lost, and we love talking.
KipBut even more so, we love talking about lost.
TheresaSo join us for some good conversation, laughs, and let's get lost together.
KipTogether. I think it's just like the way you just sort of like sounds like and then uh let's get lost together. It's like yeah, just gave up.
TheresaI didn't give up. I think I just I think felt defeated. Yeah, that's what happened. Yeah, it's not the same. I just felt defeated. And then it just came out in my voice as well.
AmandaOh boy. Well, oh that's Jane.
KipJane is feeling better. They're aka chatty Kathy.
AmandaShe's so sweet. She's a she was sick last week when we were recording, so she's like, I want to catch up with everyone as well.
KipBut she has much to say.
AmandaAnyway, welcome to this week's episode of Let's Get Lost with my co-host Teresa.
KipHi.
AmandaKip. Yo. And you know, for the better part of today, maybe Jane as well, will be our guest host. But yeah, I'm just glad she's feeling better. Same. And uh, we're here to talk about cabin fever, which means we're only two slash three episodes away from the finale, if depending on how you count it.
KipYeah.
AmandaDisney Plus, which I would imagine many of our Canadian listeners are listening or watching it on if they don't own the box set.
TheresaIs it not on Netflix anymore? No. Oh no. Well, I thought they just took it off on the US version.
AmandaNo, so I would imagine most people are either watching any some sort of box that they already own or streaming it on Disney Plus. And on Disney Plus, it's three broken down to three parts, and on the box set it's two. It's two.
KipYeah. So one is very low. Yeah. Part two is two hours. Um, this is also episode 79 of our podcast. Let's get up there.
AmandaIt's getting up there. That's crazy.
TheresaI mean, what are we gonna do when we hit a hundred?
AmandaOh, we'll have to do it a hundred episodes.
TheresaLike, will it be like will we do two clip show? Yeah, like what clip is? Remember, remember
Streaming Era Vs VHS Reality
Theresain TV? They should do clip shows, and it'll just be like bloopers and yeah, like extended versions of things, fun trivia.
AmandaYeah, clip shows are so funny to me because they because I'm rewatching Xena right now, and Xena had a classic clip show in season two, and it's so silly. And I like why did they do them? Just to save money?
KipUh I yeah, but also I think it was like they didn't even really do, they didn't have DVD, like these are mostly 90s, early 2000s shows. So DVDs sets didn't really become a huge thing until like the mid-2000s. Reruns were years away, usually for these shows, like syndication wouldn't be until after the show ran its series, or had like multiple, multiple seasons, yeah. So the clip shows were always like within while it's still airing, so it was like a chance to revisit parts of episodes in the past that you wouldn't really be able to do back then. Like I kind of miss it. Streaming, they didn't have DVDs. Yeah, you might be able to get a VHS set, but you'd have like 20 fucking VHS tapes.
AmandaYeah, did they do V like VHS seasons? I don't think so.
KipBut like maybe for like TV specials, yeah. Because like you'd have a lot of tapes.
AmandaYeah, I remember Tour of Duty had like a couple movie ones that they released, but they were really just like two episodes that like pushed together. Yeah.
TheresaAnd they didn't air together though?
AmandaNo, they did, but it would be like say there's like the 24 episode season. Yeah, and this is the only example I know for sure because I'm very familiar with it. Is so Tour of Duty had like three seasons, and in their first season, we owned three movies from that season, and one of them was the pilots together.
TheresaPilots?
AmandaWell, like part one and two of a pilot. Okay, that just like they made it seem like a TV movie on the VHS, but when it aired on TV, it was just two weeks of episodes, and then the finale was the same thing, and then there was like two episodes in the middle that were kind of similarly themed that were together. Oh, okay. So I think that's kind of how they did it because like it was would be way too expensive, probably, to do like a whole season.
KipOh, yeah, and think of the like bookshelf space it would take. I was just thinking about that. Those VHS tapes, I know you couldn't fit a lot on them.
TheresaMaybe it's like a 20 minute show. Maybe you could get a couple.
KipYou could no, because you could get a full two-hour movie on a VHS tape.
AmandaSo maybe all I know is Titanic had to be two, yeah.
TheresaYeah, exactly.
AmandaAnd sound of music. Oh Braveheart, yeah. Oh, those long three hours had to be like two tapes. Crazy. Now you can carry it around on your phone.
KipOh, yeah.
AmandaLike it's like a couple hundred megabytes of that, even the whole second season of Xena is on my phone. I just watch it on my phone.
TheresaLike, that is crazy. Yeah, that is wild. Because yeah, I remember like when we got the Titanic tapes, like I would only ever watch the first tape. Why? Because the second the second tape is so upsetting. So I'm like, you know, I'm like, okay, like I can watch this on repeat and I'll be okay.
KipI kind of miss I know how it ends. Well, even like the Lord of the Rings extended versions on Blu-ray are still two discs each. Are you serious? Yeah, and I I always know when the break is coming, it's great.
AmandaOh my god. It is kind of nice to have like a natural break.
KipIt is.
AmandaI kind of miss when things had like insertions and stuff.
KipI remember uh a couple years ago when the latest Avatar came out. And James Cameron, his movies are always so fucking long these days. Like he loves a long movie, and he was like, Go to the bathroom, take a break. It's okay if you miss a few minutes. Like, it's not gonna miss anything important. Like, dude, this is your movie.
AmandaBut he was like, It's like it wasn't a lot of break time into this. It's I mean, to be fair, I did fall asleep at one point in the second avatar and woke up like an hour later, and I swear they were in the exact same position. They weren't in the same place. They've been kidnapped by water, and they were by water, and then I fell asleep, and then I woke up and they were kidnapped by and they were by water, but it was just one character was different. Well, I guess the same. So that's what he means. You can you can sleep for an hour and not.
TheresaBut it is because like it's like a cinematic situation, like kind of thing where like you know, they're like swimming and it's like you know, five minutes long because it's so beautiful. But like, I mean, that's when you go to the bathroom because you can only see them do, you know, yeah, it's a lot of laps for a while. Yeah.
AmandaAnd now, if we want to watch something, we can just watch it at our leisure, like this. We can decide how we're gonna watch the next couple episodes of Lost.
KipAnd this episode I watched on a disc, a Blu-ray DVD, and which of which came with this uh booklet of synopsis,
Cabin Fever Setup And Trivia
Kipwhich I'll read right now for what we're gonna talk about today. Episode 11 of season four, Cabin Fever, written by Elizabeth Sarnoff and Kyle Pennington, directed by Paul Edwards. Locke discovers the location of Jacob's cabin and receives shocking instructions of what he must do to protect the island. Life aboard the freighter becomes increasingly perilous for Said and Desmond. In flashbacks, we see various moments in Locke's life when it is suggested that he is special.
AmandaAnd also that he fails at being not special.
KipAs I said, it is only suggested. It's never confirmed. True, true. Poor Locke.
TheresaThis was not his episode.
KipOh dear.
AmandaOkay, well, what can you tell us about it, Kippy?
KipSo a few more little details. So eight and a half out of ten on IMDB. Okay. Lower than I thought. Yeah. To be honest. Really?
AmandaTo be fair, Lockwins usually.
TheresaYeah, I thought it would be a bit of a big this is a weird Lockwin.
KipUm 10.8 million uh viewers on the TV. And uh no, sorry, nicknames. And we're days 98 to 99 on the island. Same as last week, but just from the different perspective.
AmandaWell, like what time is happening on the freighter at this point? I it's just no meaning anymore.
KipDays on island. Yeah, days on freighter, no fucking meaning. It might not even happen yet. We don't know. It's wacky. Wacky. All right. I have uh two trivia questions.
TheresaI don't know why there was an upward inflection as though it was a question.
KipUm, because there are two and then like kind of facts mixed in. Okay, okay, okay. All right, so I don't think you'll get them. Okay. Maybe the second one. Okay, question number one. Okay. Before returning as Richard Alpert on Lost, Nestor Carbonell was expected to. Sorry, she brushed up against me like a tickled. Oh she's like, hello. Okay. Repeat. Before returning as Richard Alpert on Lost, Nestor Carbonell was expected to be unavailable for the remainder of the show because he had been cast in what CBS drama, prompting the writers to alter their original plans.
AmandaWhat? So we're let me think about this CBS drama? CBS like 2000. No, I'm just thinking.
TheresaThat's your sound.
AmandaSo that's kind of like we're probably at 2008 right now. What came out in 2008?
TheresaWas it like a new show?
KipYeah. Oh.
AmandaAlayu Govna, that's my noise.
KipOh, that's not good.
AmandaWas it CSI in New York?
KipNo.
AmandaThere was a lot of CSIs on CBS back then.
KipYeah. Just throw a city into it and like you guaranteed there was one.
AmandaWhere did your sound come from?
KipYeah, what is that? You just kind of govnna? Well, that out of nowhere.
AmandaWell, they're kind of like boat people. What?
TheresaI want to know what you mean by that.
AmandaYou know, like Alo Govna. Okay, no, no. I'm just saying it. It's not making any sense. I think I still have heat stroke from the weekend. It's like 45 degrees here.
TheresaHonestly, no, I don't I don't really watch a lot of CBS. CBS was a terrible number.
KipI mean, I don't recognize this show. Okay, let me know. Okay. The name was Kane.
AmandaNo.
KipUh it's a show that chronicled the lives and internal power struggles of a powerful and wealthy Cuban American family running an immensely successful rum and sugar cane business in South Florida.
TheresaOh no, I've never heard of that.
KipAnd it was called Kane. Cane.
TheresaLike C-A-N-E, like sugar cane.
KipYeah. So I've never heard of it.
AmandaThat didn't that didn't work out for him?
KipIt was canceled. So the Lost Producers had already adjusted their story plans to not include Richard Alpert after season three. Because even though he wanted to return, the president of CBS forbade it from happening because it was an ABC show.
AmandaOh.
KipSo she said, No, you have a contract with us. And then the writer's strike happened, Kane was canceled, and Nestor Carbonel could come back to Lost.
TheresaSo what a happy silver lining.
KipSilver lining. Exactly.
TheresaSomething good came out of that. He came back.
KipOkay.
AmandaHe's so good in it.
KipAnd it's always beautiful. You can't imagine it without him.
AmandaI know. He's such a like important presence.
KipYeah. It's like he's like integral to Lost in my mind. Question number two. The childhood test Richard Alpert gives young John Locke was inspired by what real-world process used to identify the reincarnations of Tibetan Buddhist leaders. Sorry, of what Tibetan Buddhist leaders.
AmandaThe Dalai Lama?
KipYes, well, llamas.
AmandaDolly's the leader of the lamas.
KipThere are several llamas.
AmandaYeah, that's fair. I don't really know about her.
KipJane, do you have something to say for yourself?
AmandaJane, they didn't think you were capable of this.
TheresaShe hasn't knocked anything down. She's gracefully. She's like something significant.
AmandaYou know what's super funny? We got I got that question, obviously.
TheresaSo funny.
AmandaOh my god. No, no, no, no, no, no. Listen. Let me finish.
TheresaOkay.
AmandaWhen you first, because it like, once you said the Tibetan leader, like, you know, there's only so many guesses, right? But when you first started saying it, I was like, and that was when we were like, you guys might get the second one. And when you started saying what it was, I was like, what does he think we know about?
KipYeah. I thought you might get this.
AmandaOh.
KipAmanda's this weird thing about religions. So knows things about them.
AmandaShe took a religion. I took religions of India, to be fair.
KipThis is not India.
AmandaThey have Buddhists in India.
KipOkay, uh, so just another fun fact. Uh, Lost Producers have said Richard's role among the others was partly inspired by the Panchen Lama, a spiritual advisor who helps identify and guide important figures such as the Dalai Lama. So sort of like second in command to the Dalai Lama, which Richard kind of is. So kind of a neat uh little factoid.
AmandaThat's fun.
KipYep.
AmandaThat I know we're gonna talk about that little test thing. I'm very fascinated by.
KipI have some more facts about that, but we can get into it when we talk about the tests.
AmandaOkay, because I'm very I that was very interesting to watch.
KipOkay.
AmandaBut let's first hear about Greece's stream
Theresa's Stream of Consciousness
Amandaof consciousness.
TheresaI no longer say also. All right, Kevin Viewer. I feel like I'm not gonna like this episode because I scare easily. Um, what's this? Who is this? She's exciting for something. Who is him? Twice her age. How old are you? Oh wow, it's raining. Uh-oh. Oh no. Oh my god. Emily, are you okay? Um, I guess no. Okay, but she's awake. Um, so this is back ways. Okay. She's six months pregnant? She don't look pregnant at all. Wait, what's happening? She's giving birth at six months? Would it cry like that? Already? I don't know how this works. She's okay though, right? Like it's placenta time? Oh, his name's John. Um I guess it's John Locke. Uh didn't they leave at night and it's still night? So did they walk all day first? Yeah, no, he's not in front. This is awkward. And I see no one still knows what to do. Awesome. And poor sweet Hurley is like, why am I here though? Legit. Um Said, why are you so ominous? Why are you standing over Desmond like that? Okay, so they just get to walk around the boat freely now. Wait, the doctor's alive? Wait, why do you need to know, Kimi? Yeah, Said, you don't say a word. I'm sorry, you're gonna shoot the hot captain? Uh I'm gonna say it's probably your friend Michael. Oh man, Michael's in a bad way. Um, can you do anything from that position? Also, ouch. Why does it matter that he has your name? Dang. Still can't die. Uh can he actually? Uh he's just making Kimi angrier. Wait, you're you're saying that you don't have an a single actual engineer on that boat? Um, why are we chopping and who is doing the chopping as everybody is asleep? Um, what are you doing and why? I see you've chopped a lot of stuff there, horse. Um a getaway like a cabin? What's a DI? Oh, Dharma. Whoops. Oh, no, you're not hor Oh no, I'm not gonna like this episode. I don't like the I don't like the dead people thing. Especially if you're talking to them and seeing them. Yikes. Is this some kind of time loop? John, are you okay? Okay, so you find the dead guy and then you find Jacob and Horace's not cool. Um, drink every time you see a close-up of an eyeball. Okay, Ben, still being kind of weird. What's a Malamar? Is that an American thing? Uh also, oh I said also. Um, what's with the very interesting cuts on Shirley sh Hurley's shirt? Um, are freaky dreams common on the island? Ah yes, it's John Locke. I'm sorry, how many months has it been? Can't do what? And your mother clearly does not give a damn. Um, why is there lipstick on both sides of that cigarette? I'm sorry, who is what? I'm sorry, no thanks. Man, he's got pretty eyes though. Like, can't you all see the c the cabin? A pit stop where? You know, I always wondered what happened to the Dharma. I mean, I guess you know what's up now, John. I'm sorry, they made the ranch trashing the ranch dressing? Wasn't it dropped off? Man, this is messed up. Would this pit smell bad? Okay. Wow, that kid is such a bully. And he's back. He's everywhere. And he's frickin' ageless. Richard is frickin' ageless. Richard, no one knows what you actually do, my dude. I'm sorry, what are you gonna show Richard? Um, did he draw the smoke monster? That's terrifying. Why would you hang that in your house? Um, we okay, we have a glove, really old book, a bottle of I want to say sand, a comic book, some kind of rusty dagger, and a compass. I mean he's a kid, so I'll probably say, you know, he may pick the comic. Is this one of those I see and it's mine kind of things? Or oh no, he's picking sand, compass, book of laws? Nope, dagger? God, kid, you're creepy. Oh, sorry, kid, your answer was wrong, and Richard is mad. Um, so what happens next? How often do you visit him? Poor John, he literally did nothing. Ugh, he's just digging through dead bodies? Disgusting. Okay, maybe that's the way Hugo shirt normally is. Fun. Nice little design. Uh I'm sorry, who is the leader then? I found a map. Or no a blueprint of a cabin? Is that what we do? Um, okay, so Horace built the cabin. Does is Horace related to Jacob? Um how do you or your orient yourself around here? You look at a map, but like I'm sure when he made the map, he wasn't standing right here. Um, is Kimi in charge of the freighter? Ooh, sorry, Mayhew. You did. Um, I'm sorry, Kita what? I'm sorry, what's in the safe? Oh, it's another folder. Okay. Um sorry, where is Linus going? I'm actually so confused by everything. But like, where is he going? Okay, so Cappy doesn't know anything about it being an extraction mission. Or doesn't really know anything other than it's some kind of extraction mission. How do you Charlotte and Faraday and Miles? So what are they here for? Um, did they already take Mayhew off the chopper? Why is he back on the chopper but dead? I'm confused. Aww, Cappy's helping them out. Wait, what's all this bear what about this bearing stuff? Is he gonna be okay? Oh, Cappy wants to save them, I think. I'm sorry, do we know where the cabin is? Like, I thought it moved. So now we're gonna let Hurley go. Okay, poor Hurley, just a pawn in their little weird game. Wait, did John actually manipulate Hurley? Wait, what? Oh god. Locke's actually just so sad. Everyone just picks on him all the time. I'm sorry, why are we sitting in the dark? Um, who's what's exciting? Oh, middle. Very sketchy, as we know. I don't believe the science camp. Crap. Uh, this teacher seems nice though, I think. Um, I see. John's been saying that line forever and a day. Um, okay, so Petis is also a cool dude. Cool. But okay. Damn, Kimi, aren't you fit? Okay, here's the bearing. Alright, alright. Well, bye, Cappy, be safe. Um, that is the tiniest boat, you guys. Holy crap. It doesn't look like it's gonna hold both of you. Oh, does it? Okay, I get it. I mean you don't want to go back. I I see I see what you I see what you want. But like, you're you're just gonna stay here? Wait, what is the actual plan? So Sayed's gonna go to the island, bring people back on this tiny ass boat for Kimi to shoot them all? Or are they gonna sail off? Is Kimi gonna be back by then? I don't get it. Oh, it's nighttime now though. Okay, I'm confused. Um I'm sorry. So if the cabin moves and you but you have a map, does the map itself update when the cabin moves? Ben are are you manipulating him again? I can't I can't ever tell. Okay, so so we're fine now. Could Horace literally have built a creepier cabin that's ridiculous? Okay, you joke you go, John. You go get it. Anything is possible. Yeah, John, you've definitely had some luck too. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Um this is terrible. What is this? Um, those are stairs. What does he need? Oh, you put that walkabout thing in his head. And who are you? Wait, who are you before? I'm sorry, what are you? Is he supposed to wheel himself to his own room now? Okay, Des is just chilling on the stairs. No one seems to care. This is weird. I'm sorry, what is happening right now? Like, is this war? What the hell is going on? What the hell is this timeline? Oh, that's how he dies. Sorry, Doctor. Okay. Uh okay, the timing is all wonky here and there, right? So this is like a past thing? Okay. Um, oh, Cappy is standing up. Desi, be careful. Don't, don't let them know you're still just there. Um, I'm sorry. Oh, and Cappy is dead. Bye, sweet captain. Um, could you I mean you know, are they are they all just effed? Are we all just F now? I mean, everybody has sapphones, I'm confused. What's up, Lapitas? My God. Um, is everyone gone off the boat and now Des is just alone? Oh man, Juliet's the best. But seriously, Jack, just settle down. You had surgery literally like yesterday. Pretty sure you'd be in some pain. I don't care how hungry you are. Um, okay, they hear it. The chopper. Everybody run. They're probably gonna light you up. I'm sorry, what was that? Seriously, Jack, stop running. God damn. Wait, where are we going? Okay, are there no windows in this fucking cabin? I'm sorry, what time? Time for what? Hmm. I like uh Ben and Hurley though. They're kind of a cute duo. Okay, this is actually like so sketchy. But like did Horace also build the door? Where'd he get the doorknob? Okay, no thanks. Who are you talking to? My God, what is that? Who is that? Oh my god. Is that Daddy Shep? Dang, I'm scared. Like legitimately. Why do we keep sitting in the dark? Alright, we're just gonna chat. Coo, coo. I mean, why are you here, John? That's a good question, Daddy. Um Good God, John. You just want to be chosen, hey? Good God. I mean, you just feed right into this. I'm sorry, what's that now? Is that that's Claire? Why? I don't I don't get it. They're babies with Sawyer, and we're just gonna be okay with this. I'm sorry, why are we not telling anyone that Claire is just creepy in a cabin? Okay, why won't the questions matter? I mean, what question does matter, Daddy? I'm sorry, is she is she friends with all the ghosts now? Does she dead see dead people? Oh, Apollo. Is that an Apollo bar? Is he gonna share with Ben? My god, of course you are you, sweetheart. My favorite scene of the episode so far. Okay, John is back. Okay, so what are we doing next? I'm sorry, we're gonna do what now? We know that that that's not how islands work, right? The end.
Locke Flashbacks And Failed Destiny
AmandaNicely done.
KipYeah, that was good. Um I think my favorite part was when the helicopters come, they're gonna light you up. Did you just think the helicopter's gonna shoot them all?
TheresaI kind of did. For a second, they because they were just packing.
KipLiterally like grenade launches.
TheresaYeah, and I was like, oh, this is it. They're just they're gonna skin their little camp and they're gonna light them up. That's very funny. I'm like, I feel like I would have remembered that, but like I don't remember anything, so maybe it happened, but and daddy's going on here. Yeah, well, there's only one.
KipI know, but you said daddy a lot, is what I meant.
TheresaYeah, I guess I could just call him Christian. But I like the associations, you know, because he's daddy shafts, he's daddy, he's Jack's daddy.
KipHe's also Claire's daddy.
AmandaIs Claire like high in that scene? Like, okay, it doesn't literally work.
KipWe're gonna get there, but like it's weird. Yeah, whacking. Yeah, this is quite an episode.
TheresaIt is. You're so confused.
AmandaYes, okay.
KipBut also, like I don't know how much further we are.
AmandaI mean then part that really matters is just the end. Yeah.
KipExactly.
AmandaOkay, that's what I thought too. And like I mean, there's stuff that matters, but it's like yeah, but like really, like the the boat stuff, like the freighter stuff was kind of dumb. Like it's important, I guess, to know that Kimi's out of control and stuff like that, but like it doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't get it. Okay, let's just start with the beginning, which is the flashies, the flash by ways.
KipWhat did you call them? The back ways, back sides, the forward ways.
TheresaBack ways the only thing I will say, or not the only thing, I'll say lots of there's no way the first thing I'm gonna do.
AmandaIs I know we're watching it again in 2026, so it's like even farther away. Yeah, I have to remember this was like supposed to be set in 2004, right?
KipRight.
AmandaWhen they showed the 50s like saw copy like music and stuff, I was like, holy shit, how old is this person? And then I realized that he is old, he was supposed to be 48, so he would have been born in 56.
TheresaI know you have a hard time with his age because you uh find him a track, I don't know. I don't, but like I love Locke. I didn't realize it was so old.
AmandaIt's not even that old, it's just that like 48 isn't that old, but when you think back to the 50s now, from like art, that's really old.
KipThat is a difference, right? From 2004, it was 48 years.
AmandaYeah, but it was just it's funny. I was like, oh my god, what the hell? Who is this? Like, creator? Like, I don't get it. Like, but anyway, do we think that Emily was hit by Anthony Cooper on person on purpose? Is that what we're supposed to be drawing? I did not think of that to get rid of the baby.
KipI mean who's driving? I wouldn't I have no idea who was driving. I wouldn't put it past him.
AmandaThat was my first instinct was Anthony Cooper because she's like that's obviously who she's talking about.
KipYes.
AmandaAlso, did you guys think that he was 20 years older than his mom?
KipWell, he she just said he's twice your age. Is she supposed to be 20? We don't know.
AmandaOh no, she's probably supposed to be like 16. 15 or 16. Yeah, you're right. Okay, never mind.
KipSo, but even that, like, he would be 30-ish.
AmandaSo he's supposed to be like 80. Yeah, which is it just seems a little old, right? The timeline seems a little off, but whatever.
KipBut I mean less. Yeah, Emily. We know she survived because we've seen her in Locke's flashback before. She's creepy. She's crazy. Yeah. Um, doesn't fare very well in into the future. No, poor thing.
AmandaShe didn't have a very good, like, she seemed pretty messed up by this, right?
KipShe was kind of mean to her mom, but her mom was also mean to her.
TheresaHer mom like gives no fucks. No. She's like, Don't sleep with uh old man, but also that's a baby. Like she just did not care.
AmandaYeah.
KipDo we want to just do all of um light a cigarette next to this preemy baby?
AmandaOh, you can't smoke here. Oh, yeah, of course. And then she's still do all of his flashes. Let's do the flashies. So he does then when that scene of the smoking and she's like, Can we talk adoption? Which is so weird. Um, we're gonna do it.
KipI mean, that's how it was back in the day, though. I'm assuming. I don't know, but I'm sure it was just like where do we sign to put him in an adoption agency?
AmandaYeah, but it's interesting because he clearly wasn't adopted out, he clearly was in maybe foster homes or something because he keeps his last name. Yeah. So he's never adopted. Um, yeah, so then but Richard, we see Richard again, yay! And he's keeping an eye out on the potentially special boy that is John Locke.
KipYeah, and we're sort of alluded to by the nurse saying, Wow, he's a fighter, he survived against all odds and like kind of every infection he's beaten off. So it's like even from birth, he's sort of being told, or we're being told, he's special, right?
AmandaWell, and like at the end of the day, he is special to some degree, yeah. Because in 1956, being born at five months, that has to be incredible.
KipAnd like, yeah, like nowadays it's hard. Exactly.
AmandaSo that is impressive. John Locke will give you that.
KipLike, but then like it kind of goes downhill from there. Pork though, like the second flashy. He's like, I don't know, six, seven. He's five.
AmandaAccording to the lost Wikipedia thing, it he was five.
KipFive. And just like, I don't know, it's a kid. Yeah.
AmandaRichard's a dick, and that's that was harsh because Richard is usually like, I know he's not like Mr. Nice guy. He obviously works with the others. He's helped bring people to the island to get like essentially trapped there. Yeah. But there's a cruelness to his like dismissive nature.
TheresaYeah, because he's usually very like like tactful, very like gentle. This was not gentle. He was gentle for about five seconds, and then he was like, nah, you've fucked up. Yeah.
AmandaSo he does this test on him. He lays out what does he lay out?
KipHe lays out a knife pile of sand, compass, knife, comic book, book of laws, book of laws, um, the baseball glove. Baseball glove.
AmandaAnd then he's asked, which of these belong to you?
KipBelonged.
AmandaBelonged.
TheresaBelong. Belong, no, belong, you're right.
KipBecause then he says, like, to keep, like any kid would. Yeah. Like, no, belong to you already. Which is like what? So confusing.
AmandaSo do you what is the test? Like, is it about like reincarnation?
KipSo this is like a very based in um like Buddhist uh religion. So okay, when um when a Panshin Llama dies, which is what they've based Richard off of. He's been based off a Panshin Llama, one step below a Dalai Llama. Religious leaders search for signs of the llama's rebirth. Several children may be identified as candidates. The children are tested using objects. If a child correctly recognizes possessions that belonged to the previous Panshin Llama, it is considered evidence that the child is the reincarnation.
TheresaOkay.
KipSo um, yeah, John reaches for the book of laws, but switches to the compass. Richard's I think okay. He kind of like has a look, but then he changes and picks up the hunting knife, and Richard is fucking pissed. Yeah.
TheresaHe's like you'd ungoofed kids.
AmandaSo clearly the previous John Logan.
KipDo you remember what he's supposed to pick? Because I do. No. Do you want to? Yeah. So he's supposed to pick the compass. Okay. Okay. Is what is what Richard wants him to take, and that's actually from a scene from season five. So we will find out why he wanted to pick the compass.
AmandaOkay, cool. It's a it's a cool idea, and I like that that's what it used for. And that test for their belief system also makes a lot of sense. So it's interesting to know. But he fails. Yeah, he fails. And picks up the knife because why? Like, what is it about John Locke, even as a young kid, that this is what he's drawn to?
KipI don't know. Like, I mean, I think on the one hand, like, especially in the 50s or maybe this is early 60s, I don't know what year technically he was supposed to be born. But like hunting, army, any five-year-old kid is gonna be sort of drawn to, in essence, violence. Like that's sort of what they're told in that era, and even to some degree now, still. So I think it was just sort of like a natural child instinct to be like, cool, a knife.
AmandaAnd it's like probably a little taboo for him if he doesn't get to exactly yeah, touch it, play with it. Interesting.
KipHe but it's like another weird thing where like John Locke's always so close, so close. And like, you're right, there is something special about him, as we've seen even from season one. Yeah, but like he just can't cross that finish line. No, like he just can't get there.
AmandaHe's always like just like like and I think that's what Richard's like disappointment is. It's like, oh, such wasted potential. It's like kind of the John Locke theme, right? Yeah, so sad though. Totally, and it's because he's in his own way about it, right? Like he can't just like let things be what they are, he's in his head about it.
KipSo because what's the next one? It's uh oh the high school. Oh dear.
TheresaHe's been stuffed in a locker.
AmandaOh John.
TheresaAnd a bunch of people are laughing at him, and his teacher gets him out, and his teacher decides to talk to him in a dark room.
KipWell, I'm I it wasn't that dark. Why did he turn the light on? Well, why wouldn't he turn the light on? Oh, he did it? He didn't. No, but the lights were off.
TheresaIt's just outside light. That's the way you turn the lights on. I think it's weird. I think I thought it was weird.
AmandaI mean, that teacher was not very supportive.
TheresaLike, no, first I thought he was nice. And he's like, I wish I'm gonna give you advice that I wish someone would give me. I'm like, that's this is the wisdom that he always needed. And then it was like, you're not gonna be prom quit. You're not this.
KipI'm like, oh yeah, like don't tell a hormonal teenager to try to convince him of something by telling him, you're never gonna be cool.
TheresaYeah, accept your fate, sir.
KipYou're a loser. You will always be a loser.
AmandaEssentially. So go to the science camp and just forget about the cars and hunting and fishing or boxing or whatever you said.
TheresaHe likes Did this teacher honestly think that he was cool at one point?
AmandaYeah, sir.
KipLike, that was not the way.
AmandaAlso, look at the weird. So he never went to this camp, though. No.
KipAdmit hellos is the lab that Julia works. Yeah. So it's like it's been around. Yeah.
AmandaSo if he had, who knows what again.
KipJust miss that mark.
AmandaJust miss the mark.
TheresaYeah. It's like come with his with his signature. Don't tell me what I can't do. Yeah.
AmandaYeah, that's right. It's always been ingrained in him. It's interesting that that's where.
TheresaYeah. Start started young. Yeah.
AmandaAnd then I think the next time we see him is hospital.
TheresaRehab or whatever. Rehab.
AmandaAnd what is that man's name, Kip?
TheresaAb Abaddon. Abaddon. Abaddon. Abaddon. Abaddon.
AmandaIt's close.
TheresaI got it right the first time. No, I got it right the first time. Abaddon.
AmandaSo learning to walk or trying to walk and being miserable about it.
KipAnd well, and that's the thing. Like you gotta appreciate what Abaddon says. Matthew Abaddon, I believe. Is like it's a miracle you're here, you dumbass.
AmandaWell, it is another example of how he is clearly special or like touched or whatever it might be. Because how did you survive being a like five-month-old premi? Grow up in like really shitty circumstances, not really get anywhere, and then you get thrown eight stories, and like quite candidly, all that happened is you're paralyzed from the waist down.
KipExactly. Like, fuck. And he's like, I don't believe in miracles. Take a look at my file. I'm a sad sack.
AmandaAnd that's I haven't even started using the phone in sex service yet. Oh god. It's gonna get worse than me. No, I don't know. Who knows? He probably has right. What was that? What was the significance of him like putting him at the top of the stairs and making it like a push on the phone?
TheresaAnd I'm like, I don't am I remembering this dog? I'm like pushing. That's what I was thinking. I'm like, did he actually walk for a hot minute to try and save himself? And like he forgot because he had gotten like concussed and then got to the island. He's like, actually, I can walk, you know.
AmandaIt was very strange.
TheresaIt was just uh very ominous feeling.
AmandaI think I'm supposed to maybe just kind of mess with us a little bit.
KipI think so. And then he just puts him down that elevator. And how fucking dismissive was John when he's like, Oh, you did a walkabout, and now all you are is an orderly. Holy shit.
TheresaMofo.
AmandaAt least he didn't get paralyzed by the father he didn't keep he kept not giving up on for years and letting hurt him. Oh god. John, we all have our issues. Like being an orderly is an entirely respectable career.
KipHe's here helping you. Exactly. Some bitch. Yeah, that was unpleasant. So to summarize, John is sad.
AmandaJohn is not the reincarnation of the previous Supreme Others leader.
TheresaNo. And he has been visited by Richard a lot, and he is sad.
AmandaYeah.
KipHe just can't quite get there.
AmandaQuite hit the mark.
KipVery honored.
AmandaAnd quite candidly, in the on island stuff, he's not quite hitting the mark either. So it's just probably what the flashbacks are supposed to show us is that he's never quite getting it right. And he's not getting it completely right here yet. Yeah, exactly. Um, should we move
Hurley Ben Locke And Trust Games
Amandaon to his like on island stuff to just kind of tie it in?
KipYeah, let's get there.
AmandaBecause again, like when you really think about it, not a ton happens. The like journey with I mean, I don't know. What do you guys think? Like, is this more supposed to be kind of like if you were like philosophically invested in the character of John Locke? Like, do we just not think that there's much to it because we aren't invested in him the way some other people are?
KipI believe so. Yeah, I think John Lovers out there love this episode. Yeah, and I like it. I I don't I don't really have much against this episode, um, but I think it is about building that myth of John Locke, who he is, what's important about him, maybe not even special, because like we say, he is special, but maybe where his importance lies.
AmandaYeah.
KipBecause there's several like allusions to this, with Ben saying sort of like essentially passing the torch to John. He says a few things that that's sort of like, no, it's your time now, and that kind of thing, and and John has a dream, finds out where to go, buy a blueprint. Good point about does the blueprint map move when the cabin moves?
AmandaWell, does the cabin move or does their perception of it just right? Like, I think that's more what it is. I don't think the uh the cabin necessarily moves, I think just like their awareness of it kind of shifts.
KipI think so, because the cabin also has that that ash border around it that we we saw a few episodes ago or whenever that was. And it's like that's not all gonna move either.
TheresaBut didn't didn't we see an ep uh didn't we see a scene where the ash border was there, but the cabin was not?
AmandaYeah, that's what I mean. Like I think it I think more just being able to see it and perceive it is what's shifting.
TheresaOh my god.
AmandaUm but he has that dream with Horace, and that's how he And is this the first time we see No no we've seen Horace in Ben's flashbacks, right?
KipRight, right.
AmandaSo he sees Horace in this dream, Horace says find me, blah blah blah blah. And so again, we're supposed to, you know, glean that like he's getting kind of messages or yeah, like it's like a psychological, psychic energy or whatever, right? But I think we're still at a point in the show where he could like it could still go both ways. Like I think there's still like there's a uh like a metaphysical explanation for how John becomes aware of this map, which is eventually what he finds on Horace, right? Yeah, but they also are quick to remind us that this is where John Locke was shot and fell into. So it's very possible that he also just saw it in a closed pocket, or sensed, you know what I mean? I'm just saying that there I think if they wanted to, there was still kind of an out, an out for them.
TheresaHe went digging for that body. He was not that deep in that pile to be able to find that body.
AmandaHe went touching, he didn't touch touching, and it worked up a uh uh thirst as Hurley points.
KipSo gross, yeah. Digging through bodies works up a thirst. I love Hurley.
AmandaSo I mean, just this the fact that Hurley, Ben, and Locke are all together is like worth some points in this.
KipOh, for sure.
AmandaI mean, again, I think because I'm not like a huge Locke fan, like great, we saw all his like useless kind of like sorry sack stuff. And now on the island, I'm like, oh God, he had a dream, and now he knows where the map is, and like, oh, he doesn't actually need Hurley. Oh my god, he can do it himself.
KipLike, so did you did you buy Ben's assessment that Locke was manipulating Hurley?
TheresaI honestly don't know because half the time what Ben says is a manipulation of John, so it might entirely be that he didn't manipulate Hurley, but Ben wants him to think that he did because he's not different than him.
KipLayers on layers on layers.
AmandaOr just more simply, Ben is because Ben also thinks they're similar, is just equating what he would do and like projecting that onto right?
KipI I don't think he was manipulating Hurley like when early on in the episode when uh Hurley asked like where they were going, and and John was just candid and said, I don't know yet. Like I I liked that, it felt genuine, it felt like Locke was actually being like humble enough to be like, I don't know yet. We're on this journey together kind of thing. And I think, yeah, once he found out maybe he didn't need Hurley, you could read it as like, Okay, I don't need you anymore, get lost. But I did feel a bit of a genuine uh ness to Loc's concern and saying if you want to go back to the beach, because that's where Hurley wanted to go originally. He wanted to go back, and Locke was like, Okay, I don't need you anymore, so I don't want to put you in harm's way. I did feel like that was genuine.
AmandaI actually believe that because I think that Locke is like a at worst, just like a kind of like neutral, colder man. Yeah, and at best, actually like a nice caring man, as long as that doesn't interfere in what he wants or needs. Yeah. So he doesn't need him anymore, so he's not going to force him to stay.
KipYeah.
AmandaAnd he was only doing that because he really thought there was no other way.
KipExactly.
AmandaI don't think that if he thinks he can get, I don't think he would go out of his way to hurt people or cause people pain.
KipExcept for Naomi.
AmandaExcept for what he thinks that was necessary too, right? Like if he thinks it's in like service of the island or his like unique path, he'll do whatever. But I don't think he wants to hurt people. No, I agree.
KipI don't think so for the most part. Yeah.
TheresaSo I just think it's funny that we go, we start off their scene with like the last time we saw them, it's Hurley's gonna lead us to the to the cabin. And then Hurley's in the middle of their like little walking crew, and John's leading. And I'm like, you know, if you held Hurley at gunpoint and was like, you gotta take us there, maybe like put him in the front.
AmandaThat's why I like that Hurley called him out for that. He's like, I'm not even in the front.
TheresaYeah, like that was I was like, exactly. Like, I don't even how did you even get in this orientation?
KipYeah, like well, I'm sure it was one of those scenes where it's like when you get a feeling, Hurley, let us know. We're just probably like wandering aimlessly. It was like okay.
AmandaYeah, I'm gonna have a feeling that I need a chocolate bar.
KipWhat did you what did you guys think about Hurley and Ben's convo about the purge? I mean, it was annoying how Ben again tried to play the colour. None of that didn't say that hi baby.
AmandaSorry, Nikki's here. He did say that he got sick and had his daughter's blood on his hands at one point, and I think that's the closest you're gonna get to accountability from. But yeah, the purge, and she's like, Oh, I didn't uh you know that was a good one. He basically said, like, I had nothing to do with that. Yeah, like you pulled the trigger, buddy.
Kip100% and he literally like killed his dad sitting in the same car as him, watched him die. Yeah, like you're like pulled that gas bomb out in the car, put his gas mask on, was like, bye, you did. Yeah, like he's not. Like you're not innocent. No. But he loves to pretend like nothing he does is his choice.
AmandaEverything's above him, like a lot.
KipThat wasn't me, Hurley.
AmandaThat was the leader's choice. Aren't you the leader? Not always. Like, hey, like we get it, buddy. Like he him and Shawlock aren't that different in some ways, right? Yeah. And that's one of them.
KipAnd it was interesting to hear Ben say, like, I got sick, you got better. Like he's sort of like. And but again, is he just saying these things to is he actually thinking the torch is past, or is he just biding his time?
TheresaYou never know.
KipAnd that's the thing.
AmandaYou literally never know.
TheresaThat's what's like that's what I love about Ben is like you just you honestly never know. Like I feel like you're always second guessing. Yeah.
AmandaEven at the end of Ben's arc. It's not a spoiler. The show ends eventually, everyone's arc ends eventually. I'm still like what? Like, are you a dick? And you guys know how season six is. So it's like, yeah, even in those, I'm like, are you an asshole still? I don't know.
KipI don't know.
AmandaIt's very hard to know. Yeah. Like, I don't remember.
KipBut I did like the uh interaction with Hurley and Ben. It's a good little foreshadow for what happens in the finale or after the finale, really. And also just Hurley's sort of like looking after other people, handing the water out, making sure everyone's okay, sharing his chocolate bar. Those are all good little Easter eggs of like where Hurley's gonna end up. That was a very good episode for those sort of like laying the Easter eggs, and maybe that is because this is sort of getting them to the point of where they know they're going for the rest of the series. Like this episode. Like the writer's strike is all over and they got Richard back so they can go or Nestor back so they can continue that path.
TheresaYeah. Oh yeah, yeah, I can see that.
KipI tried to research if they ever revealed like because they were ready to move on without Nestor. Like so without Richard, what it would have been, but they've never really publicly stated. But they had it all mapped out, apparently. Oh wow.
AmandaI wonder if Abaddon would have been more involved, and that's why he's in this episode. I mean, like maybe they kind of had him on deck. Because it's been a little while since we saw Abaddon as well.
KipYeah, that's true.
AmandaThat could be so maybe that was gonna because he's also kind of like a mystic figure in the show.
TheresaLike he's I honestly don't remember him that much.
AmandaSo I don't know, or yeah, maybe it was just gonna be they they've introduced so many characters that they could have kind of yeah.
KipUm, do you want to do cabin or beach freighter? Remainder freighters.
Freighter Violence And Time Weirdness
KipThen we'll go back to the last one. Yeah, we haven't talked about the freighter yet, have we?
AmandaOh, the freighter. Kimi is out of control.
KipBut he's Okay, but I kind of like the way he talks.
TheresaHe's not. I'm sorry, did you not see him just standing? Abs popping. I will die on this hill.
AmandaHe is not attractive, like he's got a good body.
TheresaYeah, that's yeah, that's what I said. He's hot.
AmandaHis face is horrifying.
TheresaI wouldn't say it's horrifying, though.
AmandaHe literally, you guys, he's a sociopath. But we're not talking about personality. Amanda, I'm changed the look of his face.
KipNo, no, no. We gotta take personality out of it.
AmandaLike Kevin Duran, that's who plays him, right? I think would be sociopathic looking in real life to me now.
KipI don't think he's bad looking.
AmandaI don't either. Okay, he's a real person.
TheresaWe don't yuck your yum about John Locke.
AmandaI don't find John Locke attractive. You weren't into it. No, I'm not into him. We can get back in the footage and and talk about no, I just said he was more attractive than I thought he would be. Now, time I love I don't want to Kevin Durant is a real person. I don't want to, he's not an unattractive man, but I find the character so unappealing.
TheresaOh, I didn't say the character was appealing. I said that he was looking good with his abs popping, biceps popping. Also, I like the way he talks.
KipThere's something weird about it. It's like almost like he's a sociopath. So apparently that is.
TheresaHe plays it very well. He does the characters to him. Great acting.
KipBut yeah, it does on that ship. Like, holy shit. What is happening going down?
AmandaAnd I don't want to skip ahead, but like Desmond, I don't think you made a good choice.
KipLike I would just scurries away.
AmandaI'm gonna stay here. I'm like, and why?
TheresaBut like to do like I think that we're I feel like Desmond and Said are like kind of forgetting a little bit what's happening.
AmandaYeah.
TheresaBecause like this is not your boat. Yeah, no, you are not, this is not a cruise ship. You are not chilling out. You were literally held captive at one point. Yeah. Um, yeah, Kimi hates you for whatever reason. People are constantly threatening you. Michael's lying to them. Now he's tied up in a basement. Yeah. Like the fact that you're just like, no, I'm gonna stay inside, he's like, okay, I'll come back with people. Like, what?
AmandaSo I try I what I try to like, because I get so overwhelmed by this because when we kind of pick up on the ship, the freighter, they're coming back and their man is like dying of like clearly being attacked by something serious. They're all losing it, Kimi's losing it. And I don't know, like if they're forgetting, or if they're just like, well, it's crazy here, but like look what happens to people on the island. Like, I don't know. But what I would have liked is if that was more of a discussion between Saeed and Desmond. Like, okay, it's fucked here, but at least the captain's here and you know, whatever. Because the idea that they have to sneak off the boat, and Said's like, I'm gonna sneak off the boat that Captain's gonna tell everyone that I stole it, and I'm gonna bring my people back to this ship. That's what I don't get.
KipYeah, that plan is half baked.
AmandaAnd like I understand that when you're in a situation like this, the plans aren't always going to be 100% well thought out, but I just sort of conversation about like, hey Desmond, I know this isn't ideal, but like it's better to try to get people off the island.
KipWell, and that's just it. Like, I get it. They're they're sticking to what their original plan was for Saeed is to get people off the island. For Desmond is to stay off the island. Yeah, so in theory, it makes sense. However, yes, some recognition between them would be like, what the fuck is happening on this boat? Well, exactly. Are you sure you want to stay here? Because that guy's nuts. People are dying, left, right, and center. Like, is this what you really want to do? I mean, I guess that you're supposed to kind of read between the lines that they recognize that and the captain's on their side, so doesn't start with thinking, I have an ally.
AmandaYeah, with who's the captain, who in theory should be an important ally.
KipUh Michael cannot die. No, no, no, yeah, and it that was a good point, Teresa, about like because he wasn't hired as like an engineer, he was hired as a caretaker mate.
TheresaSwab decker or something, deck swabber.
KipDo they not, yeah, have anyone else in that ship who knows mechanics?
AmandaI think somebody died. I think that was the problem they were talking about.
TheresaBut like the deck hound is I agree, I agree. You know what I mean? Like you're telling me no no one else.
KipThat's the thing. I can cut a million fucking cables and destroy all kinds of shit. Doesn't mean I know how to put it back together.
AmandaI can take scissors to a huge wad of them behind my TV. Yeah, but if you then say put the TV back on to the cable station, I'd be like, you're not gonna happen to happen.
TheresaLike, how do you fit it? It was very strange. We need to keep them. I'm like, how do you know he's the one who destroyed him? Like, that doesn't track at all. It doesn't matter.
KipIt doesn't matter.
TheresaIf anyone's gonna fix it, it's Said. Yeah, you should probably get him on your side because he managed to make a telephone work with like three pieces of tape.
AmandaYeah, he's definitely the professor from Gilligan's Island, like but on um, but that is crazy about Michael not being able to die.
KipYeah, so the gun misfires and and several times.
AmandaYeah, yeah. Kimi's like, well, this didn't work.
KipFix my gun.
AmandaBut Kimi's fucked. So he's just gonna shoot. He he's there's no reasoning with clearly.
KipBut that's the point, is like clearly Widmore hired, and Ben alluded to it a few episodes ago, of like this sociopathic uh mercenary maniac who essentially reading between the lines committed like war crimes in other countries, and so now he's on this boat, and he's been told by Whidmore. Apparently, what we maybe we're supposed to believe is accomplish this at any cost.
AmandaTake him, take him getting rid of Ben and anyone who stands in your way, and securing the island, right?
KipExactly, yeah. So, and I guess the captain doesn't know.
AmandaCaptain was chartered and he thought it was an extraction mission, and it's interesting because the captain, the first couple episodes that he was introduced, seemed very dark and very much like uninvolved, just like he was more the kind of like, I'm just here to do what I have to do, I don't care what that is. Yeah, and now he's turned out to be kind of like a nice guy who's completely lost control of his own vessel. Yeah, and it's actually sad. Like, I you know, that and the doctor part at the end were actually really sad. Like when the guy's like, Oh, we're getting this Morse code that says you're dead with your throat slashed, and he's like, Oh, I'm the doctor, and it's like and the mercenary guy's like, Yeah, weird, eh?
KipIt's like, oh, creepy, yeah. Are you gonna do it?
AmandaYeah, and that's what I thought.
KipI thought like instantly he's just gonna be like, I die. Well, but no.
AmandaAnd this time thing with the island is very strange, like it's very hard to do.
KipYeah, I don't know what the actual differential is, but it's like on the boat is behind in time, I guess, obviously, because doctor's still alive.
TheresaYeah, I thought it was hours. Um it feels like days. Now it feels because he's like bloated and stuff. So I'm like, how long has he been in that water? Like, I don't understand.
KipWell, yeah, I mean, they're going for dramatic effects.
TheresaWas he on the bearing the whole time?
KipI know, I know.
TheresaLike he just wasn't taken away by like sharks or any kind of follow this bearing, yeah. Like just straight 305 all the way down.
AmandaMaybe if you don't want to arrive alive, it doesn't matter as much.
KipGood point. It looks a little weird.
AmandaBut that I mean that said, the doctor also seemed like, again, he's like kind of like a weird kind of guy, but he didn't seem like it didn't seem like he was actually like threatening.
KipHe was sort of like, I don't know who you are, what's going on. I'm just here to do my job and listen to the captain who is sort of taking orders. Yeah, so we're losing sort of these the more level-headed, yeah.
AmandaThe level-headed folks, then the captain died by captain's happy, and we had Frank, who was trying to mount a resistance, yep, yeah, yeah, and that's what ended up costing the doctor his life. Because Kimi will do anything, which we knew already from killing a 16-year-old girl.
KipLike, yeah, like ooh, it's not a good guy.
TheresaAnd then Desmond's just on the little ship by himself. He's like, Ugh, he's just sitting on the stairs, like, hmm, yeah.
KipGet out of there.
TheresaMaybe hide.
KipLike well, you did see him, yeah, scuttle off that thing. Like, oh, I've got it.
AmandaI mean, I guess at this point, Kimi's leaving, so that's good.
KipAnd the mercenaries are leaving. So it's like he's on the boat alone, isn't it? No, there's some crew. Oh, yeah, Michael.
AmandaWe saw the crew that were kind of standing behind the captain. So the captain clearly had like some people that were kind of still on his side. It just seems to be what how I kind of envisioned it in my mind when I think about it is like the captain, the mercenaries were hired by Charles Woodmore. All of like the scientist-y type people were hired. Frank was hired, they were all brought together. Yeah, like the Miles, Charlotte, Daniel, Naomi's team. Naomi's team, and then the mercenary was a team, and then Charles hired a separate team to bring these two teams to the island.
KipAnd the boat would have been a charter. Yeah.
AmandaAnd so the captain would have his crew already got separate from the mercenaries, which is I think why no one was like, there were people that were standing with the captain, but it's like, what are they gonna do?
TheresaOkay, and it's a growth and then Michael's tied up in the was just contracted to be a deck hand, to be a deck hand by Al Capitan.
AmandaYeah, but was a plant.
KipBut it it was a plant by Benjamin.
AmandaAnd I love how quick, I love how quick Said was to sell him out a couple episodes ago, and I then love how quick the captain was to sell him out to Kimi. He's like, I don't know, here's your guy.
KipExactly.
AmandaLike, ooh.
KipNo love lost with Michael.
AmandaOh, but we did forget one thing because I was thinking about the guy, their like friend or whatever that died.
TheresaMayhew.
AmandaWe forgot one thing about John Locke's flashbacks that you mentioned in your who's Mayhew?
TheresaThe the the guy that died.
AmandaThe like smoke monster dead guy? Yeah, okay.
TheresaOh, yeah.
AmandaBut you you mentioned it in your stream of consciousness. I don't think I think we need to talk about it. Is what the fuck drawing did John Locke make? That is the smoke smoke monster.
TheresaWhy did she she clearly does not care about that child? And then it's like, oh my god, your drawing is so lovely. Just put it on the wall, even though it depicts someone dying. Maybe it was one of her other children.
KipA demonic monster killing a stick figure.
AmandaYeah, that was fucked, you guys.
KipIt's so interesting though, because like how does he know he's still a kid? Yeah, yeah.
AmandaWell, that's exactly it, right? It's like that is clearly. I mean, kids draw what kids draw, but it it felt very intentional. Intentional.
KipYeah. And and uh Richard knows what the smoke monster is. Yeah, so he's like, oh. So he should have seen that and been like, hey, he is special to some degree. Just get him there. Maybe he just needs you like him under your wing. He needs a bit of guidance.
AmandaSo disappointed though.
KipLike, come on, yeah, no one gets it on the first go. Yeah, you gotta practice.
AmandaYou gotta practice your reincarnation skills.
KipThat's right. Come on.
TheresaI mean, there's there must have been a better way to like even try to get him to like go to some like if he's already like kind of like a loser. Like, I don't know that science camp was really like the thing to like entice him to come, you know what I mean? Like, maybe like, oh, do the free makeover. I don't know. Like, I don't know, it's like the 90s, right? Everyone was doing makeovers to be cool. Just isn't that what they did? Like lose the glasses, yeah.
KipStop running ponytails, yeah. Whoa, she's so hot.
AmandaJohn Locke took away his smoke monster draw drawings and love of boxing and hunting nuts, and all the cars. He was the prom king with Richard Alperto.
KipThat's the spin-off I want to say.
AmandaWhere John Locke becomes prom king, and then like a president or something like really alternate reality. Um, yeah, so the freighter's a mess, and Desmond's just kind of slide like slowly sinking into the background. And Said's in theory headed to bring more people back to this map.
TheresaThe boat can only hold maybe three more people.
AmandaI know it's just it's gonna my first thought. I'm like, of 35. Like, I don't know.
KipNo, we've lost a lot of those extras. Oh, that's been culling from there's been a couple culling.
AmandaLike when three people came out at one time, like bang.
KipWhat's going on? Bang.
AmandaLike that was weird.
KipOkay. And then uh oh, so the quickly the beach. Yeah. So they're there and Jack's running around already.
AmandaAnd what has it been like six hours since this?
KipYeah, at max, six hours. They ended it at night, it is still night. Yeah.
AmandaLike, like, but that's not that shocking, to be honest.
KipNo, whatever, it's just a show. Like, it's not totally realistic, clearly.
AmandaI mean, even if it wasn't a show, like that man would be like bleeding from his sutures before he would like ask for and that's why I like Juliette being like doctors make the worst patients.
KipYeah, yeah.
AmandaShe's great.
KipThen they hear the chopper. I thought it was gonna be Sayyidina. Me too.
AmandaIt sounded more like Sayyid at first.
TheresaI mean, that bowl's not going that fast.
KipNo, maybe we're supposed to believe that and be like, oh, there's hope, and then it's like light him up. Just come up.
TheresaLight him up. Tell me he didn't think the same.
KipBut like, I don't know about this tracker thing. I kind of forgot about that. So, like, great, Jack's got a new mission now, I guess.
AmandaI think it wants to follow it. I think it wants us to follow it.
TheresaWhy? Yeah.
AmandaWell, you'll see.
TheresaTo your death? Because that's clearly what it does. I mean, they have grenade launchers, I think.
AmandaBut again, they're just so single-minded, right? Like, and where the fuck is Sawyer?
TheresaUm he's on his way with the baby.
AmandaI know.
KipBut uh uh Lapidas threw that down there, obviously, on purpose.
TheresaYeah. So we've all got sat phones, is what I'm saying.
KipSo Lapitas does want them to know where they are at the very least. Yeah.
AmandaLike Lapidas is on their side, like, or maybe not on their side because he doesn't know them yet, but he he's again another person. Hey, he was very invested in 815. So he's got a little bit of that like conspiracy theorist, like collector type vibe about him. So speaking of so he he's a caring man.
KipYeah, and he throws a little line in to make us doubt Charles Whidmore planted the plane. Because remember, Michael was like, Your boss is the one who put that fake plane down there. And he's like, You think I'm a conspiracy theorist, and that's what you believe? So, like, yeah, sort of was like a little tidbit, like, oh, so do we doubt that it was in so who did it actually? I don't know anything anymore. So, and I I I don't remember either. Or if we even ever find out who really put it down there.
AmandaI mean, it could have been Ben, right? Like he has like unlimited resources as well, it seems trotten the globe.
KipSo a million passports, millions of dollars.
TheresaYeah, how like like where are you getting your money from?
KipSo and then the cabin, the cabine. We didn't talk about that yet, eh?
AmandaLike
Inside Jacob’s Cabin With Claire
Amandathey find it, yeah.
KipThey find it, and Ben and Hurley are like, all you, bro. Yeah, I'm not going in there.
AmandaYeah, Ben's like, I I got sick and you got better. Yeah, so I'm not supposed to go in there. He's like, I'm I'm good if you go in by yourself, too.
KipYeah, very cute.
AmandaSo he goes in and he sees a shadowy figure in a rocking chair.
KipAnd who is it, Teresa?
TheresaDaddy Ship.
AmandaSo this is very interesting. Okay, knowing how the show ends. Okay, because that it's hard to talk about without so right now, it's just Christian Shepard. That's how he introduces himself. Yes. We don't know. He says he can speak on Jacob's behalf. Yes. And he clearly gives Locke instructions. Yes. And has a very sedated Claire with him. Yeah. Like she's fucking creepy.
TheresaShe's not okay. Cleared. Very weird.
AmandaAnd when they're like, where's the baby? He's where he's supposed to be. Like, what? Yeah. Like what honestly, Teresa, just not really remembering the directory of the show. What do you think is happening right now?
KipI'd also like to know.
AmandaI don't know. Honestly.
TheresaUm, I don't know.
KipBut you must have thoughts.
TheresaLike, do you believe that is Christian Shepard? No. No, no, not at all.
KipWho do you believe it is?
TheresaI don't know. That's I think that's the part that I'm like struggling with is like, I don't think it's Christian because but then a part of me like wonders like if it is, because like we've seen Christian like on and off on the island, like helping them.
AmandaSo this is what I mean about being tricky. And I'm trying to put myself into my like, what do people think of this? Like, do you think that did I think that Christian Shepherd's body was re-ant like Christian Shepard is dead? Yes, right? Like, so Christian Shepard died, Jack had his body. That is not in question.
TheresaYeah.
AmandaBut on the island, we see some wonky stuff, like Lock Me Up to Walk and Rose's cancer being cured.
KipAnd we've seen Christian walking around. Yeah, exactly.
TheresaSo can people be resurrected? I honestly is that what you think? Honestly, I feel like everyone's fucking seeing shit. Because like at one point, Kate sees a horse and then the horse exists.
AmandaSo I think the issue with that is I don't think what I would what I thought at the time and what I still think is kind of interesting is Locke wouldn't know Christian, right? No. So Christian in that form wouldn't be an apparition to him, right? Like that's either Christian or something that is presenting itself as Christian, but that can't just be in Locke's mind. Christian appearing like that to Claire or Jack or something like that could be a figment of their imagination because they have some semblance of who he is. But John Locke wouldn't. So that has to either be Christian in some form or something that's taken on the form of Christian.
KipAnd it's also interesting because we never see Christian's body on the island, his dead body. The coffin is empty when they find it.
TheresaSo like it is Christian.
AmandaWell, that's the thing, right? Like you're we can't know. Like you're you're not supposed to know at this point, right? But it's just crazy because it's very hard. And these types of things are there's just lots of time I can be like, oh yeah, this is this, and I can accept it for what it is. But every once in a while we hit a plot point that is very hard to disregard everything else you know about the show to like examine independently.
KipYeah, like we can't really talk about this more without getting into a lot of spoilers and like things that go on for the rest of the series. So we could say spoiler alert, don't listen if you don't want to, or we could just say in time, we'll get back to it and say what we I think I think that's probably.
AmandaLike in time, we'll we know what is happening. It's just unfortunate because, like I said, I do believe this is another example of Locke thinking he's made like met his mark or made his mark, whatever the expression is, but he has not. Yeah, necessarily.
KipSo you're saying Locke's being played?
AmandaYes. Yet again. Always tell it. So like it's not Christian. Well, it's not Jacob. Which is not a spoiler because he doesn't he's not Jacob. He said he can talk for Jacob, but he's not Jacob.
TheresaLike but like it's not Christian. Or it or it is Christian.
KipIt's not Christian.
TheresaNo.
KipLike it's not Christian reincarnated.
AmandaIt's not the Christian that fathered Jack and Claire. It is Christians.
TheresaDoes Locke know what Horace looks like?
AmandaThat was a dream though, right?
TheresaYeah, but how do we know that he's not like hopped up on island juices?
AmandaI mean he could be, right? Maybe putting it. We don't know exactly.
TheresaMaybe putting some salve on his head like he used to do to Boone.
AmandaBut it's just it's very interesting because again, Locke thinks that he's found like the answer and where he's and he's special because this man who represents Jacob is telling him what to do, and that is not going to end up being what is right.
TheresaIt's funny because when I think about if I was like super lost and I didn't know what to do, and someone tells me I have to see this dude in like a cabin that moves around. And then I I finally find said cabin and the person isn't in there. I don't know that I'd be like, well, the other guy said it was cool. I'm just gonna do what he says. Right. Like we're like we're very trusting, and I think that's like a big that that reflects very much on like how Locke is just I I I believe everything.
KipHe's grasping, he's looking for any confirmation that he is the one who's so that he's important or special. Exactly.
AmandaThat's why he let Anthony manipulate him for so long because it meant his dad loved him.
KipAnd he'll let these he'll listen to literally uh uh a drugged up Claire who's clearly not well. That's yeah, not how and he in season one took loving care of her, built her a crib, which we saw in this episode, even when that thing crashed on the beach. It was like, oh yeah, there's Aaron's little home that John Locke built for her and him, and like and now she's looped up, goofed up, goofy, all just like creepy. And he's like, Okay, cool, because this apparition guy, I don't know who says he can speak for Jacob, is telling me something that I want to hear.
TheresaAnd I think that's the part that's like really like concerning is like if one of you like we had separated and I saw you finally after God knows how long, I don't know, like days. Um, and that's how you acted. I don't know that I would be that concerned about what the man in the chair is saying to me.
AmandaBut that anyone else who came in. That would have been if that was Jack or Story, they would have immediately run to her, checked on her, see if she doesn't get you out of here. Locke is again so pigeon hold on what he and he is that is going to continue to control and ruin his experiences.
TheresaI mean, it's it's ruined so many already.
KipYeah, yeah.
AmandaRight?
KipAnd I can't see the stairs for what they are. Trying to find some purpose for that stairwell soon, other than the walkaboat. God so yeah, so anyway.
AmandaBut it does lead to like again a a pretty cool moment in the show, which is he does receive an instruction.
KipYep.
AmandaAnd he relays it to Ben and Hurley, which is what?
TheresaWe have to move the island.
KipYes. How do you move a fucking island?
TheresaOkay, that's not how they work, right? Like, there's no trolley, there's no crane situation. Um, like that's not a thing. Um, also, we're very casual about it. Like, someone told you this, and you did you I hope you ask questions.
AmandaWell, Locke isn't like known for his like reactions, really, though.
TheresaSo like logistically, though, you know what I mean? Like someone tells you to move the island and then you relay the information. You're just like, Yeah, we just move it.
KipBut that's Locke, though. He just thinks, okay, this is my instruction. It'll come to me. We'll figure it out. It'll come to me. It was like when he saw the smoke monster the first time, and it's like, what did you see? I saw the island in inside the island or whatever he says. It was beautiful. It was beautiful. Like he's he's not looking for detailed instructions, he's looking to be inspired.
AmandaAnd I think there's a part of Locke that's like, I don't want detailed instructions because if I had detailed instructions, I would just be someone's like tool. I'm not a tool, I'm a vessel for this, right?
KipLike, no, you're a tool.
AmandaHe's a tool. That was his portrait's for a tool. Just like his teacher said, but space class or whatever. Science can't. Oh my god. But you know what I mean? Like, it's just he can't, there's a part of them that has to do it his way as well, right? Because that's how he proves that he was important.
KipWhy he's supposed to be.
TheresaHe's just so fascinating. Like, as I feel like someone, I'm sure people have done like character studies. It's like, I was thinking about how like he found this hatch, like ages, it feels like years ago. He found this hatch. He was obsessed with these like I have to get in, like, I have to. And now he's like getting instructions. And it's like he his journey like isn't even his own anymore. No, like he's just kind of hoping that someone will like guide him along to show him where he's supposed to go. Like, he doesn't have like the initiative he used to have. Now he's just kind of like kind of like a lost puppy. And it's kind of sad.
KipIt is sad. John Locke is a sad character. He just gets sadder the more I think about him. I know. I know.
TheresaLuckily, he hasn't manta.
AmandaI don't love John Locke. I'm sick of this.
KipOh. And that's kind of how it ends. Yeah. Yeah.
AmandaOn kind of a a a like a whipping. Bang, not a whimper.
KipJust a con just a confusing. So how'd the characters do?
TheresaI mean, not a lot happened.
KipI know, I'll be curious to see what happened what happens in the I like didn't realize how much didn't happen until I was like doing the calculations and not a lot had happened.
TheresaI'm like, oh, we didn't we didn't get a lot of points.
Scores Ratings And Finale Tease
AmandaWell, it really was only highlighting a few characters.
TheresaAnd even then they didn't do that much. Yeah. Um all right, so we'll start off with um, oh god, oh whoop. Uh well, Michael. Uh number 17, shocker. Uh negative 7,940. Oh my god. Uh Benjamin at number 16, negative 55 oh my god. Negative 555. Charlotte number 15, negative 155. Miles at 150. Or Miles at number 14, negative 150. I would also like to know what Miles and Charlotte think about the sat phone falling from the sky.
KipYou mean uh uh Daniel and Charlotte? Yes, Daniel and Charlie. They were suspiciously absent.
TheresaYeah, I would like to I would love to know what their reaction to that would be. Anyway, um Lapitas, 190, Faraday, 195, Kate, number 11, with 775, Locke at number 10, 890, Claire at number nine, nine hundred and ten, Juliet and Desmond tied at number seven with one thousand seventy-five, son at number six with nineteen hundred, Jack at number five with nineteen oh five, gin at number four with two thousand one hundred and sixty, sorry at number three with two thousand five hundred and seventy-five, site at number two with two thousand nine hundred and fifty, and Hurley, our king, still number one with three thousand three hundred and forty.
AmandaYeah.
KipWow.
TheresaUm did Claire move at all? No. Oh, I thought she might go down again.
AmandaNo, no, no, but she's creepy AF.
TheresaNo, she didn't really move. I mean, keep in mind that the difference between her like she's flanked by Locke with 890, and then the next and the person above her is Juliet and Desmond with like over a hundred more. So, like, for her to move, she'd have to do something.
KipNo, but like even drastic. Did she move at all?
AmandaDid she receive any points or did you take it anyway?
KipLike, not necessarily her.
TheresaOh, I didn't I didn't give her anything.
KipShe just got nothing. I was like, you're weird. Well, speaks to what we said last week about care uh Claire's character.
TheresaYeah, oh that's true. I didn't yeah, I don't think I took anything because I was like, oh, you're weird now.
KipJust becomes a big old nothing burger.
AmandaYeah, I was like, well, you're possessed. Until she has the best line in the how loss should have ended YouTube channel.
TheresaI almost said.
KipI can't wait to put those on our soundboard.
TheresaI don't know. I I I can't remember how we get to that point. But I can hear the like how it should have ended thing and like the arms going on. Rating.
AmandaSo I can start. Sure. Uh I would give it probably an eight, like a little bit less than the average, just because, you know, like I kind of already said, I think that if you are in first of all, there's nothing wrong with this episode. It's cool. The we need to move the island is very interesting. Um and again, looking back on what you already what you know in the future to this is very interesting. But I do think that for the people who love it, and it is an episode that you hear people people will bring this up.
TheresaReally?
AmandaBut I do think it's an episode that people love if they love the lore of John Locke. And I'm just not overly invested in the lore of John Locke. I think he's he's just an average guy to me.
KipI think he's a sad sack. I I give it an 8.5. Oh. Even that being said, uh there was like I don't love John Locke the character, but I can appreciate how they've consistently made him this pathetic man. Just like Saturn Saturn. Yeah. It's like, oh, it's just getting worse. And like I can appreciate the acting that Terry O'Quinn, right? Terry O'Quinn. Yeah, he's a good actor. Does like all of that kind of stuff. I think he plays it really well, and like there's a good dynamic between that trio and the boat stuff. Like, it was nuts. I I kind of liked it probably more than you guys did, because I thought it was like kind of fun to see them like loading up grenade launchers and shit like that. And it was just wild. It was a wild ride. So I give it an eight and a half.
TheresaUm, I gave it an eight. Um, yeah, it was fine. Um, I'm not like I mean, I'm not like overly into John. But I feel like like we know he's sad already. Like, do we really need to like keep talking about how sad he is?
KipI mean, some of these things do come in in season five. Okay. Like there are some, like this does lay some groundwork. Okay, that's good at least. Where is that?
TheresaBecause right now I know I for me, I'm just like, did we really need as someone who doesn't remember shit? I'm just kind of like, did we really need another episode where we see like how like just sad this man is?
KipUm, I was gonna ask you guys a question and I forgot.
TheresaIs that is that a law question?
KipBut I'll wait. No, it's a job, it's a jack question. So I'll wait until uh is it is it Oh, I don't know what it's about. No, you don't because like being his nerves? Like what?
TheresaI don't know.
KipWell, you'll have to wait till next time and see.
TheresaThat's terrible. Do you remember what it is?
KipOh I know exactly what it is.
TheresaBut you're not gonna ask right now?
KipNo, I'll ask you next episode. We're not gonna die. But what if you forget? I won't forget.
TheresaBut what if we just end the episode on the question?
AmandaOkay, we're good.
KipSee you guys next week for the question and episode part one of three of the finale of season four and the question. And the question.
TheresaAnd the question I need to know the question. I need to know the question. I don't like surprises. What? Do I get asked right now? Could you? Yeah, yeah. Oh no, no, you want to like have a yes, no, I want a generic reaction a generic reaction.