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Let's Get Lost with The Oceanic Three
We're your Oceanic Three: Theresa, Amanda, and Kip. Join us as we get in-depth about our favourite television show - Lost! We talk about everything: The Island, The Survivors, The Tailies, The Others, The Myths, The Theories, and on and on and on, but we also talk about how Lost changed the television landscape when it came out and how it still reverberates to this day.
Most of all, though, we always come back to how Lost is primarily a character-driven show. For every myth and mystery, five incredible character stories were told. They were complex, mysterious, beautiful, and sometimes challenging to watch - but the characters and their interwoven lives brought Lost to a different level unlike anything ever seen on television.
We would love it if you joined us as we get in-depth about all the Losties, what makes them tick, why they do what they do, and ultimately - what they're doing on the Island.
Let's Get Lost with The Oceanic Three
Let's Get Lost 81 - Season 4: There's No Place Like Home Part 2 & 3
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
The Lost Season 4 finale is one of those moments of TV that dares you to keep up, then rewards you for trying. We walk through There’s No Place Like Home as everything detonates at once: the freighter plan collapses, the helicopter escape turns into a brutal math problem, and the choices people make in seconds leave scars that last years. If you’ve ever searched “Oceanic Six lie” or “Lost Season 4 finale explained,” we dig into the why, not just the what, including what it costs to protect the people still on the island.
We spend real time on the myth arc too. The Orchid station and the Dharma video lean hard into time travel, exotic matter, and experiments that make “normal” physics feel optional. Then Ben goes full last resort with the frozen donkey wheel, and the island doesn’t simply relocate, it vanishes. We talk about why that moment still holds up, why Locke being named leader matters, and why Ben’s emotions only feel real when his power is slipping.
Off-island, the tone is colder and meaner. We follow the Oceanic Six aftermath, Jack’s unraveling, the pressure to keep the cover story airtight, and the chilling questions around Jeremy Bentham. Then we hit the final reveal that reframes the entire flash-forward: John Locke is the man in the coffin. We finish with our season-four character rankings, best arcs, biggest emotional gut punches, and our finale scores.
If you like smart, funny, detail-obsessed Lost analysis, follow the show, share this episode with a fellow fan, and leave a review telling us your favorite Season 4 moment. What reveal hit you the hardest?
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Finale Kickoff And Banter
AmandaWe're three best friends, and we love lost, and we love talking.
KipBut even more so, we love talking about lost.
TheresaSo join us for some good conversation, laughs, and let's get lost together. Together.
KipThat's the last time we're gonna hear that one.
TheresaLet's change your thought about it.
KipYeah, we're gonna change it up next season.
AmandaI will be happy not to hear my hideous laugh at the end, but you're you're very funny, Teresa.
KipBut I don't think so. I wonder what it will be like.
AmandaI know. Teresa's like, I've refused to record. Well, welcome everyone to this week's episode of Let's Get Lost, which happens to be our finale for season four. Ah, it's so exciting.
KipAs usual, I uh are you laughing, Teresa?
AmandaI was about to introduce you, Teresa, and you're just mocking me over there. Why are you laughing? She's laughing at my it's so exciting. Did you say yay or something? I don't know. I don't even know. Oh, you're the worst. You're the worst.
KipSorry. Yeah, but also Amazing. Would you say that this episode's gonna be amazing? Amanda, is it gonna be amazing?
TheresaOkay. Amazing. Yeah, you're kind of an asshole. By you, I mean Amanda. What did you say? Amanda's kind of an asshole.
KipNo.
TheresaYeah, that's that's because I'm I think I said something and then she said, Oh no.
unknownThey touch my rock first. I love your rock.
KipWe all have something.
TheresaWhy is it so breathy? Because you love your rock. I really love that. You barely touched my rock this season.
AmandaI didn't even get a chance to introduce Kip. You barely saw some here mocking us with past memories.
KipI don't have a quote on the board.
AmandaThat's what you're getting. No, no, it's in control of the board. And so he only gives us silly things.
KipUh this one's pretty good. I love that one. That's my favorite one for sure. I think that's it for our own.
AmandaI love that. Kate's run damage. That says that.
KipYou do.
AmandaNo, but who no one you're I think you were saying.
KipThis is how it's supposed to sound. This is how you interpreted it. That was supposed to be your sound effect. Because you can hear Amanda answering a trivia question in the background. Alberta.
AmandaGet her to sound out. Oh, that's good. Oh, mems. The mems, you guys. Absolutely different.
TheresaVastly different.
AmandaOh, and we're gonna have lots of time for mems later on while we kind of reflect back on season four. But before we get there, we have to talk about this week's episode. Z, depending on how you watched it or took in the content. But the actual finale of season four, the end part of last week's episode. There's no place like home, part two. Teresa, what is part two about?
KipShe's currently trying to get her alcoholized blueberries.
AmandaYes, we had a beautiful cocktail to celebrate the end of the season. There's no place like home, part two.
TheresaAndor three, depending on what streaming service you watch on. Written by Carlton Cuce and Damon Lindelof, directed
Setting Up The Season Finale
Theresaby Jack Bender. Ben takes Locke down to the orchid to reveal its secrets. Rescue for the Oceanic Six is jeopardized by events on the freighter, and a horrifying decision is made. Ben informs Locke that he is now the leader of the others. In the future, Jack plans to get back to the island and reveals who lies in the coffin.
KipWhoa. Yeah. Shocking reveal.
AmandaShocking reveal. That I think Teresa was really shocked about. I watched her watch it.
KipYou didn't remember. Like that you didn't remember?
TheresaI didn't remember a lot of things.
AmandaActually, I did remember a few things from this episode too that were kind of important, so that was very interesting to me.
KipSo maybe cocktails before the episode's not a great idea. Oh I got them all, I got them all. It's okay. Blueberries fell. In my boobs. Um yeah, I there was a couple things that I was just like, how does this go again? Um I because I couldn't I didn't remember at first that was Penny on the book. No, me neither. That was one of them.
TheresaMe neither.
KipAnd so like, yeah, it's still having seen it multiple times, it still gets you.
AmandaI clearly dro like blanked out from like the helicopter gin son screaming point until like they're they have to go back. Like I did not realize that we saw so much of like how they get, which it totally makes sense. But because I remember when we were watching it before, I kept thinking, like, how do they ditch Desmond and Lapitas later?
KipRight.
AmandaAnd I could not remember it, but obviously it makes total sense and it was good.
KipYeah, and because I was sort of thinking the last thing you see before it's like lost on the screen is the island disappearing. I kind of forgot that there was stuff after that.
AmandaIn this season. Yeah, in this season. Agreed.
KipI always thought that was sort of the lost end title scene. It's like the island disappears, there's those ripples in the water, and there's like that actually kind of probably would have been pretty good. Yeah, that was insane.
AmandaBut what happened in the finale is good too. But okay.
KipAll right.
AmandaBefore we get there, tell us a bit about the episode.
KipOh, yeah, yeah. Okay. So Snow Place Like Home, part two andor three. Um uh 9.2 and 9.3 out of 10, if rated separately. 12.3 million viewers that week, which is actually a little bit less than the Pent Ultimate one, the one from two weeks previous or three weeks prior. So, like they had that gap and they paid for it. So, your nickname count.
AmandaI know for certain for sure Sundance Freckles, and he calls Jack something, I think,
Ratings Facts And Nicknames
Amandaright?
KipUh stop doing that. Uh, you already have the one he called Jack. Sundance.
AmandaHe called, I thought he called, oh yes, he called him that. He got there's one other nickname, I think. So I think it's three.
KipYeah, it is three.
AmandaAnd so it's Sundance, Freckles, and then it's still Pitas. Oh, right. When he goes, comes back to the and he's like trying to get himself. He's like, What are you trying to pick that lock with? Blah blah blah. What does he call him?
KipKenny Rogers.
TheresaKenny Rogers, yeah, that's a good one. We do have an honor, we have a we have one extra nickname. Oh and it's not from Sawyer. Oh, it's from Rose. Oh, yeah. Shorty. Yeah.
KipYeah. And I love when she's like, I'm gonna keep my eye on you.
TheresaYeah. Because he's just helping himself.
KipYeah, I love that scene.
TheresaYeah.
KipAll right. So, and technically this is day 100 to 108. Yes, I can't even say on the island anymore because I'm assuming they mean like rescued on 108.
AmandaExactly.
KipYeah. They got rescued on day 108.
AmandaSo we're counting the time that they're on the boat.
TheresaBecause they were on the boat for about a week.
KipSo it's not, it's not, it's just days in this world now.
TheresaOkay, that makes sense. Because I was like, I'm like, that was not okay. Yeah, no, that makes them.
AmandaYeah, no, that makes sense.
KipAll right, so I have uh five trivia questions.
TheresaNo, I don't have a sound.
KipUh you better make it a good one. Because it's the finale.
unknownOkay.
KipReady? I'm freaking out. Okay, true or false, they filmed the freighter scenes on an actual freighter.
AmandaTrue.
unknownCorrect.
AmandaIt was a 50-50 shot.
KipBut with an interesting factoid on it, several actors and crew members stayed aboard while filming. Director Jack Bender
Finale Trivia And Behind The Scenes
Kipincluded, who got seasick almost immediately and hated his time on there.
TheresaI really hate that actually and like nicer in there than it was.
KipYeah, than the bloodstained crew.
TheresaLike Deck and Michael ain't doing so well.
KipNo, he's too busy fixing engines. All right. Question number two: true or false? The helicopter actually took off and landed on the freighter.
AmandaLike, what do you mean? Like they actually landed on the freighter as opposed to like landing somewhere else, like a stair sound stage or something.
KipUh-uh. Green screen.
AmandaWould you like to give this a shot? No. Dun dun dun dun dun.
KipYes.
AmandaTrue.
KipFalse.
AmandaI thought it might be true if they used a real freighter.
KipDuring scenes where it was taking off and landing, they used a crane to move it up and down, and then added the moving rotors using digital effects because the helicopter was actually too big and it would have sliced the boat.
AmandaOh shit. Oh, that's fair. That's probably a good call on the show.
KipI'm just funny thinking this there's a crane lifting this helicopter up and they're filming it. Just the the lengths they go to to make these crane attached to the case.
AmandaThe fact that it gets to these like magical, mystical levels of like what we see is actually very impressive.
KipYeah. Okay. Question number two. Three. Normally editors have one to two months to edit an episode of this length, assuming it's the two episodes as one. Because of the writer strike and the accelerated schedule, how long did editors actually have to edit these two episodes of the finale?
AmandaI think we talked a little bit about this, right? Because that's why there was like a gap in the week, is to try to give them a little bit more time, right? So I think they had like two weeks. I didn't hear sound. Two weeks.
KipUh incorrect.
AmandaTeresa?
TheresaI don't have an answer.
KipIs it because you don't have a sound?
TheresaYes. Just do d dun dun dun dun. That's so lost. I touched my rock. That's not a lost sound.
KipBut it's it is now.
TheresaNo, that's a lost podcast sound. That's not a lost TV show sound.
KipI mean, there's so many. You could take one of these quotes I have on the board.
AmandaI hope someday someone listens to our podcast and does trivia about it, and then someone's sound for the trivia is I touch my rock.
KipMe too.
AmandaOne time.
KipYes. Okay. Anyway, it they had three weeks only. What normally takes up to two months, but four editors worked on it.
AmandaI did see that there were four editors on it, and I remember thinking, is that common? I because I couldn't it it was something that caught my attention. So I'm like, I bet you that's not normal. Yeah. And then I noticed that three had the ACE like designation and one didn't. So I was like, I wonder if they brought someone in. Yeah. What's ACE? It's just the like professional designation.
KipIt's like the union. Yeah. It's like if you're a SAG member.
AmandaBut like some people get to have it after their names. Like, like kind of how like engineers have stuff after their name and stuff.
KipThey're like accredited editors for working in production.
AmandaWe get paid more, probably.
KipProbably.
unknownQuestion number four. Okay.
KipHow many alternate endings were filmed to minimize the risk of leaks?
AmandaTeresa, come on. I'm going to say three.
KipIncorrect. Oh, that's too bad.
AmandaTeresa, just say an answer.
TheresaI'm worried I'm going to startle everyone. Just do it. Just do it.
AmandaI was going to do that at one point, too.
KipFour? Incorrect. I can't do that again. No.
TheresaYou have to. I think I blew everyone's ears out. No.
KipActually, it's I think it was so loud the mic cut it off.
AmandaI didn't really hear much. Really? Yeah. Let's try again later.
KipOkay, so two. One showing Sawyer in the coffin and one showing Desmond in the coffin.
AmandaOh, I actually think I've seen screenshots of that. Wait, what was the question? How many alternate there was three total?
KipTwo, one was real, obviously.
AmandaI would have died if it was Sawyer in that coffin.
KipAnd they did show them on like ABC Good Morning America or something as like a after it aired, obviously. Oh, that's cool. Yeah.
AmandaBecause I remember I can see a screenshot in my head of that.
KipYeah, same. Yeah, I remember that. Um, and Sawyer or uh who plays Sawyer again? Josh Holloway. He when they were filming it, they didn't know they were alternate endings. There was a time where he thought that's how he was gonna have to learn how he died and ended up in that coffin. Crazy not to share that. One more question. Okay. The funeral home where Locke's body rests is named Hoff's Drawler Funeral Home. What is Hoff's Drawler an anagram for?
TheresaFuck, I knew that was coming and I was like, trace a thank. And then then I didn't. Hoff's drawler.
KipIt's hard to when you can't see the letters. I understand. I'm gonna spell it out. H-O-F-F-S. Oh, there's an F. D-R-A-W-L-A-R. Hoffstrawler.
AmandaI'm so bad at anagrams.
KipMe too.
TheresaIt's hard when I can't see the letters.
AmandaHoffstrawler. What is a W in it?
unknownHold on.
TheresaOh my goodness.
KipWe'll speed this up in editing.
TheresaOh no, that's oh god. Oh dear. G-R-A-W-L-E-R. L-A-R. L-A-R. Draw R.
AmandaDraw R.
TheresaIs it I think we should leave all Jin.
KipAnd then there's this beautiful music.
TheresaI remember that was so long. Whoa.
KipYou got it? Yep.
TheresaUh Jin.
KipOh, that's your sound effect.
TheresaYeah.
unknownOkay.
KipUh what? Flash forward? Correct.
AmandaOh my gosh. Good job. I was just doing it. I didn't even get close.
KipVery nice. That's amazing. Okay, that's it. That's your triv. Oh, good.
AmandaI think that one's worth five times the point.
KipOh, I forgot to hand out points. So sure.
AmandaI went. You got one right, and I got one right. But this last one took a lot of work. Yeah, it took a lot of work. Anyway, I think that leads us to Teresa's
Theresa's Stream of Consciousness
Amandadream of consciousness.
TheresaIt's gonna be a doozy. There's no other I'm not missing a segment. Nope. No, it's always been the same. Okay. Well, all right. Season four, finale, part two and or three. There's no place like home. Oh, okay. We're just leaving off from this awkward part. This all feels very dramatic. The screeching, the stop, the reverse. I mean, I would just do a full circle. Kate, why are you so mad? Oh, that's why. Sorry, who's Jeremy? Kate, I think needs a bit of a tissue. Um, I'm confused. Why not say his name? It's his nephew. Oh, awkward, I see. Okay, it's been three years. That's a long time. I mean, can't you just go back by yourself, Jack? Is that not good enough? Also, why do we have to go back? Jack, you're probably gonna pass out soon. Oh yay, it's Hurley. You know, it's been a while since Jack and Hurley saw each other. I'm sorry, who is he? Don't we just need Hurley? Why are we going closer? Oh, Locke is not good with Ben's directions, I guess. Oh, are we moving the boat of C4? What are we gonna do now? Oh, so does that mean Des knows how to de blow up stuff? Um, okay, so he does know what's up. Okay. Wow, we're saying boom a lot. Um I I guess I mean no matter what, boom. Um, so are we gonna abandon ship? Are we gonna swim on the bearing and go back to the island? I'm sorry, where did Locke get a manual? Okay, yeah, exactly. Let's just dip out of here. Wait, why not, Hurley? I'm confused. Why do they go to the station if they're just gonna take Ben away from the station? Oh man, Kimi is mad today. Very angry. Oh, Kate ran into guns. Wait, who's she being chased by? I thought oh right, she ran into Richard. But she was surrounded, no? How did she get away? Oh they're gonna lie. Oh the whispers. Oh shit, these people gonna die. I mean bye-bye, mean people, they gonna get you. Mm. Called it. I want to go to Otherton for this combat training that they all seem to have. Because this is intense and honestly kind of terrifying. Um, okay, just open fire. Okay, we'll be getting out of there. Wow, Kimi is just rude. I feel like Ben's not running very fast. More like a slow jog. Very calm. Oh, and now he fell. Oh, so we are helping Ben now. Oh, Said Dackle, get him. Oh, here we go. Oh shit, good job, Said. Oh no. Oh damn, son. Said get him! Oh my god, yes. Oh my god, he's strong down. This is intense. So who is gonna kill this mofo? Wait, is that not a bulletproof vest? Damn, Richard. And they all come out. Wait, where was Said again? Oh yeah, he went with Kate, right. Wait, is Said mad at Kate? Are we freeing him? I guess you have to. I mean I'm also skeptical, but like I feel like something ain't right. Um, who's this lady? Is it Walt's grandmother? Oh hey, Walt's in this. I mean, I don't think he'd hurt anything to do, Walt. If that's what you're getting at, ma'am. Oh, look, Walt's not a little kid, no Mo. Oh, they were bros. Sad that no one to see him, but like I guess how would they find him? Didn't they say that they're not saying who they are? The hell is this Jeremy Mofo? Um, are we protecting them from C dub? Hurley, stop eating those stale ass crackers. Wait, they're good? Oh, how sore can I answer that question? John, it's not like a home, right? Like, you're not like, hey, come stay in my place. Like this is really awkward. John, you're really testing his patients. I mean, Jack's like a doctor, right? So maybe his destiny is to like keep doing complicated surgeries. I'm sorry, why do they have to lie, John? I mean, an island can still be a place, right? I mean, what are you gonna do, John? Because it seems as though you can't figure this out. I think y'all just both need to settle down. Oh, he's back. See, no one knows what the fuck an anthurium is. Oh damn, shot's fired. Wait, what is our plan? Why are we telling him this? Okay, so you bought some time, I guess. What if it what if the little light turn never turns red? Man, that little boat shirk and motor. Oh, Juliet's hair looks nice today. Juliette's a nice lady. Uh, but why does Dan look so concerned? Oh, now we got a nickname from Rose. I'm sorry, why is Miles gonna stay? Why are we surprised? Back here with like she's been here before? We're all very nonchalant about getting into some old ass rickety elevators. I'm sorry, what magic box again? What is this place? How many stations are there again? Wait, what are all the Dharma stations for? Oh my god, another video. I knew it. Okay, that's a fancy door. Hey, John's just like, okay, I'll set, I don't need to help you. Ooh, cute bunny. Um, seriously, what's this dude's name actually? What's a Casimir effect? I'm sorry, space and time? Okay, vault. Exotic matter. Okay, vague. I'm sorry, what is happening right now? I'm sorry, that's all that Ben is doing. What is 4D space? I'm sorry, 100 milliseconds is what, like 0.1 seconds? Can't we just say that? Um, what is happening right now? Oh, it's going up. Now what? Oh dear, Caitlin Sawyer. Oh, and Jack. Awkward. Oh, poison poor Sawyer. And poor Lapidas. Okay, I guess it's safe now, but I'm still uncomfortable. Everybody's on. Okay, yeah, here we go. Um, do we have seat belts? Do helicopters have seat belts? I don't know. Okay, off we go. Everyone's chilling. Bye, Island. I feel like something's gonna happen. Things are way too easy right now. I don't know what feels wrong. Or maybe I'm paranoid. I don't know. We'll see. Um, did we think that Kimi was just gonna do oh my god. Jin. Okay. Jin saved us. Yay. Okay, this feels like maybe we don't go back to the boat. I'm sorry, does Lapitas know where the freighter is if you moved it? I'm sorry, why are you losing fuel so fast? I knew it was too easy. Should we be really sticking our heads out of a helicopter like that? You know, Jack, this is not that simple. You just sitting, poor Lapitas, and you're yelling at him. Everything go bye bye. I mean, Jack, you can't see the boat, man. Oh my god, Sawyer. What's he saying? Ah, is he saying that thing that Kate does that Jack gets mad about because she won't tell him? Oh, and Kate's just kissing him back. And Jack's like, what is happening? Oh my god, Sawyer, cross your arms and legs. Oh my god, god, that must have hurt. Is he gonna swim on the bearing? He's a pretty good swimmer though. He's literally so sweet. Okay, so she's gonna stay now too? Everyone's just staying? What's happening? Lion deed. Wait, were you born here? Are you another? How'd you get off? I I don't get it. How long have you two known each other? Aren't you leaving Juliet? Oh my god, she's so sweet. Oh Daniel. That was just so weird to think like, I don't think I'm coming back. Now Juliet's sketched out. I'm sorry, who is in this? I bet it's Kimi. I bet he's alive. Called it. He was wearing a bulletproof vest. Shoot him in the head next time. Oh, we both said it, Kimi. Wait, what's that, Ben? I'm sorry. Let's scroll back and see that bicep again. Hokay. Ha! Kimi, he doesn't give a shit about that. That's an unfortunate plan. And you're an asshole. He's gonna kill you. Oh, it's John it's John. What's your plan, John Locke? You can't reason with this man because he's crazy. Oh shit. I love Ben with his stick. Like, hot damn. Oh my god, Ben. Well, he's gonna die. What I mean, oh sorry, what did you do? Oh yeah, the boat. Whoops. I mean, Ben don't give a shit. Exactly what I thought. Okay, and break and back in. Okay, what's this now? We're reading in the dark? Who's knocking? Oh, Said is gonna kill you. Oh, and I thought so. Oh Said's got really nice hair. Curly or straight, it is always Ballowin. Um, isn't that where Hurley is? I always wonder how people play chess against themselves. I'm sorry, what are you doing, Said? Said, actually, like what are you doing? Who the fuck is this Bentham person? Okay, so who is this man? And who's watching you? So this wasn't a Ben kill. Where is Safe Said? I'm so confused. I mean, I like that we trust him, but I am sketched out a little bit. God, that is chilling. But also, hi Mr. Echo. Okay, well exactly, that's not great. Is anyone gonna jump? Oh, and they found the boat. Okay, fun. Okay, so they're good except for the whole C4 thing. But we have Sain now, so maybe he can help. I mean, yeah, I figured he wouldn't care. Kimi doesn't care either. Oh man, Kimi did. Everyone off the boat. Everybody get off the boat. Jin, what are you doing? Why are you staying? Ooh, someone's gonna be mad at you. Desi's like, yep, I'm a bounce. Oh, nope. And Faraday's on the way there too. Wait. Jax just yelling orders at Lapidas like he has so many options. Okay, duct tape. Okay, always works. Also, you're not all gonna fit on the chopper. Um, do you have a few more minutes though? And then from then on? Okay, Michael, good reminding. I'm sorry, who gets to go on the chopper? The people that came back on it? Wait, does Jin not know how to fig how to get back up to the deck? Oh, he's coming. Come on. Jinn, run. Run? Run some more. Okay, just jump off. Jump Jinn, jump off. Jump off. Jump oh, hey Christian. Oh shit. Oh well, that's horrible. Wait, who's where's the baby? Who's holding it? Wait, why is she in London now? Oh, it's C dub. I doubt C Dub would be wandering out without security. Man, Sun off Island is scary. I mean she could have easily stabbed him if that's his bodyguard back there. Oh, Kate's got the baby. Oh, poor son, this is awful. What the fuck else was he gonna do, Jack? Um, what are you talking about, Ben? What's John gonna do? What's happening now? Sorry, why are we ducking? Okay, we did bad things. Is it kind of like putting aluminum in the microave? Wait, why are you changing, Ben? Darius God is Oh dear. So he's got his shirt blown off. God, he's hot. Is Juliet okay? Oh no, she's drunk. Okay. Well, that makes more sense. I'm sorry, where are you going, Ben? What consequences? I'm sorry, why don't you just tell John how to do it then? Okay, so John is replacing Ben. Oh, they're shaking hands. Okay. Gentlemen's agreement, maybe? I mean, Ben, no, you're not. But Adio Spuchacho. I mean, hey, that's the liar guy's puffy coat, fun. They have a small village, but what happened to the kids? So, like, John lives here now? He's like the new leader, and he's like, hell yeah. Okay, cool, I guess. I'm sorry, there's a cave behind the vault and a hole? Oh, down we go. Do you have mittens and a tope, maybe? Oh, uh is that glass or ice? I'm sorry, it's like winter under here? God, that's gotta hurt. I'm sorry, glass covered between jungle weather and cold weather? Oh, it's okay, it's a wheel. Are you strong enough to push it with your arm? Oh, maybe no, it's frozen. Maybe like kick off the wall? There you go. Push, push, what's that noise? Wait, was Des with them? Did we know this? And you got it. Just keep pushing. I'm not sure what you're doing, but you got it. God, his hands would be hella frozen if that's that cold. Oh, he's crying, but why? Everyone shield your eyes, it's very bright. Wait, it's wait. What? What happened? Is it invisible? Did we misplace it? Can you misplace an island? Oh no, no more gas. What are we gonna do? The baby though. I mean, is there a safety raft? Do we just jump off? Oh, there is a raft. Okay. Sayed for the win. God, that's super violent. Someone tell Aaron to hold his breath. Who is yelling? Oh my god, is Dez dead? That baby would be pissed. Oh, he hit his head. Okay, he's alive. It's okay. Everyone's alive. Cool, cool. So, like, what's happening now? Like, where are we going? Are you okay with your whole, you know, appendectomy yesterday? Okay, it's evening. What who's calling so late? I'm sorry, what's that? What is happening? Is there someone in your house? God, girl, you made so much noise trying to get your gun. Oh, but your hair looks really nice. Wait, what is happening right now? Oh shit. Oh, it's Claire. She's back. Oh, you're fucked now. Wait, what? Oh, it was just a dream. Okay, so what's with the creepy phone call with the creepy voice? I'm sorry, why are you sorry? Is it because you're pretending to be his mom? Wait, how are we gonna feed this baby on this like raft? Where did we move it to though? Like, where is it? You know, fair point, Hurley. I'm sorry, what's up, Lapitas? Where's a boat? You know, I'm weary of boats when we're on rafts. We all remember what happened to Michael. Wait, are they saved? Wait, why are you gonna have to lie? How are we gonna explain Lapitas and Diz? I don't know what's gonna happen, Jack, but seriously, how are we gonna explain the two people who weren't on the plane? Oh my god, is this how they're saved? But wait, again, what about Lapitas and Den? Because clearly Des, because they're clearing that Oceanic Six, but then like, what are they? Wait, wait, wait. Ms. Widmore, wait, is it Penn? Oh my god, it's Penn. And it's Penn and Dez.
Jack Versus Locke On Trust
TheresaAnd oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, this can't be real, oh my god. Those precious beans, they're so precious, seriously. Also, these people have so much money, it is crazy. Um, okay, this cute little introduction. Oh, okay, so Penn's in on it then. We're all still wearing the same outfits and we're still bloody. Um, they staged it. Okay, that makes more sense. And then Lapita stays with Des and Penny, and the others go, okay, do we always just have broken pieces of wood on boats? God, this must be so surreal and fucked up for them, though. Oh, Jack, you were driving dangerous like this. What are you doing now? Of course, this fuck's the middle of the night, man. Uh, please don't break into a funeral parlor. Please don't. And you're gonna. So that is a coffin. If we could just not. I'm sorry, who is this and why are you freaking out? Are we finally gonna meet this guy? It's kind of mess up. I'm sorry, absolutely fucking not, Ben. Of course you're never gonna be right, Ben. He looks good off island though. Wait, what happens? Can we get a little hindi hind? Okay, how does that work? Why do you have to come back to fix the bad things? Like, what bad things? Like, that's fucked up, Jack. Jack's messed up. I'm sorry, we we know not to trust Ben, right? Ever? I'm sorry, why? Why do we have to? Sorry, why do you have to go back? Let's again, let's just not trust Ben. Why does Ben know anything? Let's just not. Jack, Jack, don't. Oh god, and you're nodding. I'm sorry, who was him? Um, I'm sorry. I have questions. Yeah.
KipYeah. I have questions. I laughed so many times. You were very funny.
AmandaYou are very funny. Oh, thank you. It's a this was a this was a trick. It was a ride. It was a ride.
KipYeah, extra long because it was two hours or 80 minutes.
TheresaAnd there were some jumps. Like I screamed when Ben was in the Ben was in the video. She literally screamed. I was like, did you?
AmandaI don't want to like jump around too much, but jump.
KipWe haven't jumped on anything up.
AmandaDid you before you thought it was before you saw that it was Locke, did you think it was Ben? Is that part of why you screamed? Because or was it just a jump scare? I didn't think it was surprised.
TheresaI honestly like I don't like the name didn't like ring any bells for me.
KipNo.
TheresaSo I thought it was gonna be like, I don't know who I was. I was just like, I don't know. But then Ben showed up and was like, fuck.
AmandaSo I I think originally I thought it would be Ben.
KipOh, interesting.
AmandaAnd then I remember being like them. No, oh no. That makes sense. But no, I think it just made sense that it was like someone in their life that would be connected to all of them that would make them like uncomfortable and try to be manipulating them even from beyond the grave. Seemed very Ben like. And so then when you see Ben, it's like for those like 30 seconds a minute before you a couple minutes, I guess. I was like, well, who the fuck's in there?
KipYeah.
AmandaAnd so I wondered if that's what you were thinking, or you just weren't thinking.
KipYou didn't think it was anybody.
TheresaNo, I was just like, it's like I because at this point, like I don't know what's happened really, like off island, that like we're all so upset and like I thought we would see.
KipI'm getting confused with season five, where we would see how Locke died. I thought that was this episode, but I guess that's not till next season.
AmandaNo, I believe that's the episode entitled The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham.
KipOh, yeah, that would make sense.
AmandaBut I could be wrong.
KipNo, for sure that's it.
TheresaYeah, that's what we're talking about. So I remember, I can remember how he dies.
KipYeah, yeah, yeah.
TheresaBut I did not remember that that's who it is. Yeah, no, that's fair. It's it's all over the place.
KipIt is, yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's a doozy. It's a doozy. It's a doozy.
TheresaShe a long one. Yeah. That's what she says.
KipI liked uh no, very good. Recap. Recapsulation. What does recap stand for? Is it stand for anything? Is it short for something? Recap? Recaptured? Recap. Is it short for something? Recap.
TheresaIt feels like it is.
KipRecapitulation. Recap.
TheresaRecapitulate.
AmandaUh yeah. It means it's short for recapitulate.
KipWow.
AmandaRecapitulate means to go through main points again or state of summary.
KipOkay, cool. Good to know.
AmandaI feel so smart.
KipYeah, you are smart. Smarticle, particle. So, where should we begin? Because a lot that happens. Do we want to go linear? Do we want to go moment?
AmandaI mean, I think we can try linear. I think we might get lost, but I just really want to make sure we talk about a very important part. But um more towards the beginning.
KipWhich part? Wait, what?
AmandaI just when Ben comes back. He's like, couldn't find the air and three of them. I don't know what they look like. I was like, that is so funny. Why is it? Specifically because we spent so long last week talking about how we wouldn't be able to do that. I thought that was a very cute little like tongue-in-cheek kind of even like I don't know what they look like.
KipIt's almost like they're like so casual, too. I love that too.
AmandaI don't even know if I'm saying it right now. And anthuriums.
KipAntheriums.
AmandaI don't know what they look like.
TheresaClearly, some kind of flower, right?
AmandaYeah, but that makes sense because when I've kind of forgot where we left off with them. And so when we come upon them, like Locke, and he's just kind of looking through the flower bushes. I'm like, what is he doing? And then I remember when he said he's like, couldn't find the anthuriums. It's like, oh yeah. No one could bet.
KipYeah. Like I thought they were white and then they're like red or something. I thought he said white flower in that last episode.
TheresaWho fucking knows? I think he said anthurium, but I just don't know what the colour is.
KipNo, I know, but like, oh no, we were like, why couldn't you just say like what color the fucking?
AmandaYeah, like make it simple. Turn right at the white flowers, Benjamin. Yeah, like my god.
KipUm, so if we're gonna start at the beginning, it's Jack and Kate from the finale of last season. It's a continuation of that scene.
TheresaOkay, okay, okay, okay.
KipYeah, so it's like Kate slams on the brakes and then comes back to be like, the fuck you talking about, basically. Yeah.
AmandaAnd I mean, like, fair enough. Like, fair enough. They're messy.
KipYeah, they bring up Jeremy Bentham. I think that's like the first time we hear that name.
AmandaIt is because I think in the original show, she does show they talk about someone being dead.
KipYeah, he shows the the obit or the funeral notice or whatever, but I don't think you see the name.
AmandaNo.
KipSo that's the same thing.
AmandaSo you knew there was something, someone died, and I think that's part of what you're trying to figure out throughout the season, right?
TheresaI have so many questions, but you don't know that it's Jeremy Bend them. No, yeah, no.
KipIs that your question?
TheresaNo.
KipWhat's the other question? Well, I have so I'll just script them throughout the episode, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And then so this kind of sets up the like on on I or off island, and we see throughout the remainder of the episode that basically like all the oceanic six have not really done so hot. No, they're no, you know, and so kind of a predicament. But the pull to go back that Jack is talking about is real and live. Yes, yes, but nobody wants to except Jack, which is interesting.
AmandaI know, and and so it's funny because like how is he getting them to all do this? Like, I know at the end Ben says he's got some ideas or whatever, but like truly, like I I thought we'd be more in a position to understand why everyone wanted to go back by the end of this episode, and I really only feel that we know why Jack, well, Jack's.
KipWe don't even really know why. Well, I guess because Jerry, he met Locke, now we know. Yeah, but like we don't really know what he said other than yep, bad things. Bad things happened, yeah. Right? Like, so it's not super clear, I guess.
AmandaNo, and like why it was so convincing, and then Kate's kind of the seeds were planted a little bit on hers, whereas that she's like having a lot of guilt about Claire and Claire being left behind and not having Aaron have a dream, yeah. That weird dream. Um, so but yeah, that's kind of where we're at, is like clearly Kate isn't no way, none, whatever's convinced Jack, which he seems to think she should also be aware of, yeah, is not convincing to her. And she's telling him to take a hike still.
KipAnd and she said Jeremy Bentham came and talked to her as well, and she's just like, I don't care. Yeah, she's like, I just she wants to be with Aaron, she wants to be whatever. Exactly. So it's that.
AmandaThen we see Jack and Sawyer on Island come across um Hurley. Hurley, and it's cute. Question though, for you guys here why I felt I felt, sorry, that Hurley and Jack's response to each other was a bit clipped.
KipYeah, I thought that was weird. Um, I think because um when they left, Jack was very hurt that Hurley chose Locke. Yeah and I think Hurley, the their last interaction was basically Hurley kind of telling Jack he's wrong because he's listening to Charlie and saying, I'm going with Locke because Charlie warned us against these people, which he didn't actually do, but that was his interpretation. So they were kind of at odds. I think there was just some hurt between them, and so it was a little awkward.
TheresaYeah, just awkwardness.
AmandaYeah, I just I guess maybe what I picked up on was it seemed like Hurley was more upset with or like had a lot of trepidation with Jack and not vice versa. And I would have thought of the other way around that like Hurley would be excited to see him again, and then maybe Jack would be a little bit like distant, but Hurley seemed a little distant.
TheresaI think he would just be like awkward, yeah.
AmandaYeah, that's true.
TheresaI think I think that's more what it is, is like I I think he's just kind of like oh because he was wanting to go back to the beach a couple episodes ago. Yeah, yeah, he wanted to go back, and I think maybe if they even if they had met at the beach, it would have been a little bit uncomfortable considering he did choose to not go be uncomfortable for sure.
KipAnd Jack's now coming to realize some of the things that he was wrong about as well, and he's probably like yeah, maybe he should have taken quote unquote Charlie's warning a little more seriously, right? So all that kind of stuff.
AmandaSo Locke tries to like convince Jack that he like I thought that was very interesting when Jack's just kind of like K-by. Like, I don't can't give a shit what you have to say.
KipYeah, he was just ready to walk away and then Locke convinced him to kind of like hear him out a bit.
AmandaWell, Hurley kind of did, right? Because Hurley said those the plane people or the helicopter people are not good.
TheresaYeah, because they're going back to the helicopter.
KipUm, I did write this down. Where is it? Locke's I wrote it on here, lie to them, Jack, but the full quote I love. Did I write this down? Yeah. Lie to them,
Keamy Returns And The Fight
KipJack. If you do it half as well as you lie to yourself, they'll believe you. Shots fired. That was good.
AmandaI mean. Well, that was because when when he I mean, to be fair, like when he does finally agree to talk to him, right? And he's like, Locke's like, I wish I would like you to stay. And even as he said it, just before Jack said it, I was like, you'd like him to stay? Like, that's what's that? And then he's like, You'd like me to stay. Okay. Like it's just a Locke talks to him in a ridiculous way. Agreed. And so I feel no truly. And I feel like Jack's back is always a little bit up.
KipFor sure.
AmandaAnd then, but even like, not even just because of everything that they've experienced, but because John talks to him in such a ridiculous way. And to me, that was kind of like that's why Jack always seems to be like not being upfront with Locke and stuff. And then these quotes come out, and that one was actually pretty good.
KipIt was good, but I agree. Like the way Locke talks to Jack is not in tune with their relationship, or like even just how you would talk when you're trying to have a real conversation with someone.
AmandaI'd like you to stay.
KipLike, I you're not like it's not like he's leaving before dinner at his house, right? Is that what you were saying? Yeah. I laughed at that point too.
AmandaIt's you're gonna have to be a bit I think that's what drives me nuts about Locke, is like I understand he's supposed to be philosophical and thoughtful and like all these kind of like serious things, but like just say the words that are actually going to help convince people to do stuff. Like, well, exactly. I I'd like you to stay after you know his entire reason for being has been to get these people off this island is not going to convince him. Say, hey, I watched all of this destruction. And like Jack says, like, you got half of our people killed. Yeah, you like stabbed a woman in the back, and he's like, Well, you put a gun to my head and pulled the trigger. I thought we could let bygones be bygones.
KipLike, that is not convincing, and it's also not even like Locke killed other people and had other people kill Jack tried to kill him. It's not like Jack's gone, his actions have caused other people to die. I don't think. Am I wrong?
AmandaNo, and I think that I would be so frustrated if I was Jack. Like, I get like literally frustrated just watching it, putting myself in that position because everything that Locke has done, and the amount of times he just like reduces it to this like one little witty line of like, well, Jack, we have to be reasonable and move forward, as if Jack is being the unreasonable one, is so frustrating to watch. Yeah, I would Locke should if Locke really needs something from Jack, he should be on his knees begging for it right now.
KipExactly.
AmandaLike he shouldn't be like, I'd love you to stay and bygones be bygones, and we're need we're in a pickle. Like it should be like, Jack, this is really fucked up. Here are the real reasons why.
KipYeah. Like, instead of continuing to like talk down to him and Yeah, just be real and like genuine and talk to him like an equal at the very least. But he does talk down to him, he treats him like he still knows better. Because he still thinks he knows better, he still thinks he's got some magical connection with the island, which in fairness he does to some degree, but it doesn't elevate him above everybody else, and that's how he acts.
AmandaAnd it's it's completely reasonable for Jack to not trust this man 100%. And I hate when Locke makes it seem like oh Jack, that's all in the past. Like we're we're moving forward now. It's like, buddy, have you seen what you've done?
TheresaIt also wasn't that long ago. Like, it's just but I feel like if someone talked to Locke like this, he'd be like, absolutely, like, and I think that's part of the problem. Is like Locke talks the way he feels like people should talk to him if it was like reversed.
KipYeah, and because he doesn't meet people in their own.
TheresaYeah, like you gotta read the room, yeah, and like know your audience.
KipKnow your audience, yeah. But it does plant the seed, Locke saying you gotta lie to them. And obviously, Jack takes that to heart later on, as we'll talk about. So it's just like, yeah.
AmandaI mean, so John is capable of still getting in piercing that, yeah, but it would be way more effective if he was not a douchebag about it. Yeah, exactly.
TheresaIt was effective because he explained why he had to do it, yeah, right? Like Jack's very much like a logical thinker, so this kind of like open-ended discussion like isn't gonna get you anywhere. But when you explain something and it makes sense to him, he's like, Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
KipExactly. So they parked, and then we get the I guess they're back at the chopper and um Kimi's dragon Ben back. That's what it is.
TheresaOkay, I have a question about them. Okay, so didn't Daniel say that they were gonna do the secondary protocol?
KipYeah.
TheresaBy going to the orchard.
unknownOrchid.
TheresaOrchid. Orchid, whatever, orchid. Okay. Um, by going to the orchid, right? But like, did they actually do that? Or was the second, you know what I mean? Like they didn't do anything there.
AmandaI I don't I don't know if he knows. I I wonder if Daniel knows that the secondary protocol is moving the island.
KipOh, I wonder.
TheresaBut if he knows that and he thinks that that's what they're gonna go there to do, like what were they going there for then?
AmandaTo get Ben.
KipBut like that's what Kimi was going for. So that's why I think Daniel.
AmandaYeah, yeah, they can yeah, they do, because they all know that, like that would be the last like Ben says that's the last resort.
TheresaMoving the island is a so Keamy and them assume that that's what Ben's gonna do, and that's why they go there.
AmandaYes, and Faraday needs to get everyone. That's why he tells Juliet, we gotta go now, because he thinks in 10 minutes there's gonna be no island.
TheresaYeah, okay, right?
KipBecause I was like they'll be away from the boat.
TheresaSo that is a second. If they're gonna do the secondary protocol, but then they go there and then they leave. Like, did they do it? But then that makes more sense.
AmandaOkay, that's why he wanted to get as many people off as he could.
TheresaNo, no, I did that part, but like I just didn't get if that's what they were gonna do. Yeah, and then they get there and then they don't do that.
KipI'm like, so yeah, because a few episodes ago or whenever it was, Daniel made it seem like Heamy was initiating the secondary protocol.
TheresaYeah, that's what it sounded like.
KipBut I think you're right, Amanda, is in that he knows the secondary protocol is the island moving. Yeah, and so it was just probably.
AmandaSo I think it means more like Heamy is aware that the secondary protocol is going to be, so they're going after him, and Ben's trying to get away from him, so Ben's gonna do it.
TheresaYeah, no, that makes more sense.
AmandaYeah, and then who knows what will happen, right? Which is crazy, but so they're back at the chopper.
KipUm, we get Kate running towards them.
unknownYeah.
KipWhich is a good little ruse, I guess. Yeah. I mean, it worked. What's it? It was good.
AmandaIt was good. I liked it a lot, actually. It was it was quite intense. Richard should have shot him in the head.
TheresaRichard Oh he's very clearly wearing a shoot him in the neck or something, you know?
KipLike you always know. When there's no blood. Yeah. And he got shot in the chest in a TV show or the back. Yeah. It's a bulletproof vest.
TheresaDude shot him directly in the vest.
AmandaAnd it was just-weren't they at that area for a long time? Did no one notice Kimi? Like, that's what I'm saying.
KipHe looked dead.
TheresaBecause at one point, Sawyer like kicks one of them. And I'm like, oh, Kimi's just like that. And then like, which one of those did you kill Freckles or whatever, right? So like I'm guessing he just bless you, was like lying there. Then they flew off, and then he was like, and off we go.
AmandaOh, I guess, yeah, maybe he waited. That makes sense, actually.
KipHe acted very well.
TheresaYeah. I mean, no one checked his pulse. They just looked down and were like, he's done.
KipI mean, in most movies and TV shows, there's like because we know how accurate and truthful TV show movies are, but they always are all like in shock or dazed because they're always that half second where they think they're dead. And they're like, oh, you were wearing a bulletproof vest. Yeah. Right.
AmandaSo, like, if we believe that I think it still is painful. Like, it's very he did get like attacked in other ways too.
KipOkay, would you do it? Would you wear a bulletproof vest and get shot? Like shredded.
AmandaI was like, I would too. Yeah, say I would. That's a lot of pain.
TheresaIt's very painful, you guys. Yeah, I know. I'm not saying like shoot me in the chest from like an inch, but like I would like to try it.
KipI just want to see. Yeah.
TheresaSomeone shot me in the leg with a um paintball gun once.
KipOh, that's nothing.
TheresaOh, but it was from this close. And the welt on my leg.
KipYeah, we used to paintball all the time.
TheresaYeah, like who this is this was an older gentleman. I should probably I was 16. Oh, and he walked up to me and then shot me in the leg less than like the gun was less than an inch from my thigh.
KipOh, that's that's like
Freighter Chaos And Hard Choices
Kipnot okay. No, we'd be in jail.
TheresaI hit the ground and I was like, well, this is terrible.
KipAnyway, um But yeah, if that was like a a carnival attraction.
TheresaOh, I would try it.
KipMaybe not at a carnival. Like maybe if the police offered this as like a way to make extra funds.
TheresaYeah, that'd be fun. Like maybe if I had also like a bulletproof helmet.
KipYeah, you gotta trust their age. Oh, yeah, that's that's or like it's like a cement wall, and there's a little hole in the wall where your vest is. Yeah. So like if they miss, it's just hitting the seat.
AmandaI think if anything, they might recreate the sensation with like sensors or something. I want the real thing. You know what they might just shoot blanks.
KipWell, then you can feel it.
TheresaThey don't hit. Maybe they'll they'll do the ones with the big rubber bullets. Yeah, like something that's not gonna kill you, perhaps.
AmandaI mean, getting hit in the head with the rubber bullet at the wrong angle could kill you.
TheresaI don't want to no, but with cement blocks.
AmandaOh yeah. No, no, I can't. Okay, guys. So um anyway, Kimi. That scene was very cool though, and I thought the like you said, you want to go train in Otherton, and I agree.
TheresaBecause what are they doing on that? My God.
AmandaBut that was very I did think it was quite good. I it wasn't overly convincing because, like you said, like for the audience, because it's like last time we saw them, but maybe Kate would be running from them. I don't know, right? We didn't see them.
KipYeah, I mean, I couldn't remember exactly how it goes on, but it it was pretty clear right away that she was like working for Ben or there to help him.
AmandaAnd Said and Kimi's fight was insane.
KipOh, that was high. That was insane.
AmandaI like wrote a note about that. I was like, I wrote something about this fight. What was it? And I looked and I was like, oh yeah, Said and Kimi, that was very well done. Said's back, I know, and it was very cool. Like the maneuvers were cool, and it seemed like realistic. Again, I use quotations, but like for people who could actually fight, it seemed somewhat realistic.
TheresaWell, yeah, because like they were it's because sometimes you see people fight like 30 people against like one, and you're like, okay, but this is like two people who have been fighting like forever, evenly matched against each other, and like they like stabbing each other and just they're in their places for I think they were they were serious, like it was very cool.
KipAnd what do we think about the deal? So uh, I guess Richard made a deal with Saeed and Kate that they help get Ben back, they get off the island. And Ben is very like, all right, that's the deal.
AmandaWell, I think at this point that Ben doesn't really care about any of them anymore because he knows he's giving up the island anyway, right?
TheresaSo he doesn't really care. So whatever.
AmandaAnd I would imagine like Well, real like you do find out a little bit later, like kind of why Ben was so intent on keeping them all there. And I think at this point we are to assume that he knows at this point that none of them really matter anymore.
KipYeah.
AmandaRight. So I think, and also it's Ben and he's selfish and he's probably just like it's not my fucking responsibility anymore. You guys do whatever you want, I don't care, I'm I'm done. Right.
TheresaYeah, that's I kind of figured that it was something.
KipAnd it it's interesting that Richard is in a position also to make deals, right? So like Ben and Ben respects it. So Richard, it sort of like puts Richard as a not necessarily an equal to Ben, but like Ben's the leader. But Richard is also has certain privileges as well. That not everybody else. Yeah.
AmandaI I would I would have there was a time where I intellectualized it that Richard was kind of like the second in command of the island. Yeah. Um which is is hard because I really like Richard, and I think to be in charge of the island you have to be kind of a bit of a dick. And so I don't love the idea that he's a bit of a dick, but I think he is like Well, we saw him when he was with young Locke.
KipHe was very short with him.
AmandaLike I think he has a a sense of duty, yeah, right? Exactly. So I think he's a good person to have.
KipHe wants to protect the island as well, so he's making deals left, right, and center. So that was a good deal.
TheresaHe's got beautiful eyes.
KipYeah. Beautiful eyes.
TheresaOh yeah, it's gorgeous.
KipThen we have the uh flash forward with Hurley with Waltz visit.
AmandaWasn't that sad when Waltz, like, no one came to see me?
KipLike, oh, I know. How would they see him though? They could find they they could find him. They all got hundreds of millions of dollars. That's true. And uh Saeed's a freaking assassin. That's true. Right.
TheresaThey probably could have found him.
KipThey could have found him, no problem.
TheresaI doubt that they're using like high-tech things to like keep themselves hidden.
AmandaLike Bruce Willis says at the end of Lucky Number Slevin when he finds Josh Hartnett at the end, right? And Josh Hartman's like, How did you find me? And he's like, I'm world-class fucking assassin dipshit. Like, that's how I found you. It's kind of like that.
KipNever saw it.
AmandaSo he could have found any one of them.
KipCould have been they have resources.
TheresaSun's got the Cashiola, and she's you know, find C dub like there's no tomorrow anyway.
AmandaSun is clearly disengaged from them. Now it makes a lot of sense now why. Did I feel like I cut out? No. No. Um well, like again, jumping around, we'll get to that, but it makes a lot of sense now why no one else came to visit when she had the baby.
KipYeah. And so um But Hurley and Walt. Hurley and Walt. And it was sad because like they were buds, like you said, Teresa, on the island, and and they're not hiding who they are, like their names are public. Like, so Walt would have known they were back. And that must have been hard. Yeah, it sucks. For a kid, yeah, exactly.
AmandaA kid who's clearly had to live in isolation too, right? Because that's the whole thing, is like him being back isn't allowed to be known. Yeah, so he does whatever he does, and then the only people who like he could have talked to about it don't want anything to do with him.
KipYeah. Oh, it's heartbreaking.
TheresaHe's got his grandmother who doesn't know anything, and his father dipped out.
KipYeah, and his grandmother's clearly very protective over him. Yeah. Like a little, you're gonna hurt my boy.
AmandaGonna do anything crazy.
KipLike no.
AmandaYeah.
KipSo that was um a good scene because it also I guess like it doesn't really say something about like why they why they're lying. It's like we have to lie to the city.
AmandaTo protect everyone who was left behind, and then he says, including my dad. And he says, Yes, like your dad.
KipYeah. Ooh, awkward. Yeah.
AmandaBut I mean, it makes sense. Um, and I think it was nice to see Walt again. I I don't know that it added a ton, other than to like again kind of ask the question of why are you lying?
KipYeah, exactly.
AmandaYou know, and and Jack also explains that a little later on.
KipIt was nice to have a little cameo from Walt. Um, then very briefly uh the zodiac kind of back and forth begins, and we find out Charlotte wants to stay, Miles wants to stay.
AmandaJulianette wants to make sure everyone gets off the island.
KipI liked I was hoping you would do it when uh when Daniel Faraday says why. Do you remember? No. It's just like the most dramatic why, yes. Amanda, you do a very good Daniel Faraday impression. Yeah, he's he's like Juliet says something, or Charlotte's. I remember I was just like, that's funny. I love the way he talks.
AmandaOh, I don't say he's so dramatic, but like also restrained. It's the strangest thing. I love him. I love him a lot too. Same. He's for sure my favorite of the boat people.
KipSo then it uh is not revealed, but it's sort of like hinted at that Charlotte might have been at to the island before.
AmandaYeah, she's got some sort of connection. Yeah, because Miles kind of messes with her a little bit, right? Surprise you want to know. That was weird.
KipLike, how does he know that?
AmandaHe's such a strange person. I still don't know how I feel about him at this point.
TheresaI don't understand his purpose. No one does.
KipOh, you will. Okay, yeah, he has one for sure.
TheresaDoes he? Because right now it's unclear.
KipYeah. And then I think we get back to the orchid.
AmandaAnd Ben showing up.
KipOh.
AmandaAnd that scene again. I know we already talked about it, but hilarious when he's like, You didn't find the films.
KipEarlier, this is now they're in there.
AmandaOh, right.
KipAnd John's watching the video. Ben's throwing shit in the magic hatch.
AmandaThat was funny though. Like, there's a bit of comic relief here.
KipI wrote one of my favorite, it's not really a favorite quote. I just thought it was so fucking stupid when John's like, is this the magic box? Even though Ben's like, last season or whatever was like, that was a metaphor, John. And John's still clinging on. Maybe there's a magic box. No, this is not the magic box, John.
AmandaBut it is a good juxtaposition that he's watching the video and then Ben's doing exactly what the video says not to do.
KipIt was funny, yeah. It was nice.
AmandaAnd then like just gives a little bit more lore to the island, right? Like it's been a while since we've seen a Dharma video from from Pierre Chang. His name changed, or what was it? Hallow. Oh yeah, that's right. His name changes. Hello axe or something.
TheresaEvery single time.
KipBecause that's the name on Ben's jacket. The jacket, yeah.
AmandaSo the video just kind of shows like clearly that they're doing some you know, and it's interesting because he says in the video at one point that there was like next to some, like, what is it like exotic material, he calls it or something like that?
TheresaNegative exotic matter.
AmandaYeah, and it's like, what the f what is that negatively charged exotic matter? And I'm like, is it alien shit known too? Like, I don't know. Like it's it's very interesting. Exotic matter. Yeah, I don't want to know. Like, please, like, I don't want to know. Like, what's exotic about it? And then the video doesn't work at a certain point, but clearly he was like, and you're gonna see that this bunny goes like into the future a little bit or whatever.
TheresaA hundred milliseconds.
AmandaYeah, it's almost like it disappears or one second, just say point one second. Stop like fancy. And then that's when the best quote from them happens. And he says, Um, is this video saying what I think it is or talking about one of the things? And it's like, if you mean time traveling bunnies, then yes.
KipYeah, I love that. Yeah. And it solidifies that the show deals with time travel. 100%. Yeah. Like puts it out there if we didn't, if it wasn't like cemented for you yet, here it's like plain black and white. We're talking about time travel. Yeah, exactly.
AmandaAnd don't worry if you were upset that there wasn't more of it.
KipYou're in for a good season. You're in for a good season five.
AmandaYeah, but it's very interesting because you two cannot be on this podcast anymore. What? I'm looking for two new coaches, coast co hosts. I don't know the I didn't know what the saying was. Strap in. Strap in. It's time to strap on Ben.
KipOh strap
The Orchid Video And Time Travel
Kipin.
AmandaBut I do just, before we move on from that very clue, I think it's interesting that to Ben, like, that's just meaningless too. He's like, Yeah, yeah, time travel, whatever, John. Like, I'm trying to blow up this thing so I can get behind the wall and go into the Arctic and move the island, okay? Do you think I give a shit about time travel?
KipExactly.
AmandaYeah.
KipYeah. And then the elevator comes around. Oh, I knew it. Yeah.
TheresaYeah. Did you guys know it was Kimi? Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, I parnicked in it. I did not know in the way that like I saw it before and I should remember.
KipYou just knew. Yeah.
AmandaWhat happened? I yawned. And scared.
TheresaWhat? Because I was saying something like relatively like, I don't even know what I was saying. But then all of a sudden, her mouth just like kind of, you know, the Lion King where they're like this, and then all of a sudden they just kind of did that where she was just looked at you or what?
KipYou were watching her during.
AmandaYou made direct eye. No, because she was talking. So I was trying to listen. Story. I forgot what I was talking about.
KipYou were talking about how you predicted it.
TheresaThat it was Kimi. Yeah, yeah.
KipYou knew it.
TheresaI knew it, but not in a way because seen it. Yes. Right. More like, I'm like, I bet you that's Kimi.
KipIs this is this like I think it's the full scene where basically they got the fight and Ben kills Kimi.
AmandaI think there's a bit of a like, I think John's. We're left on it. But yeah, eventually they talk and then he kills them. Okay.
TheresaAnytime has his stick, like is it like a like a police wand or something? Yeah, it's like a dawn kind of. My goodness.
AmandaOh, he's dead. I think there is a word for it when it retracts. Yeah, oh, he's deadly with that thing.
TheresaLike just the way that he like hits him like with precision. And like again, my thing with Ben was that always that he was like brilliant and that was terrifying. But now arm him with a retractable stick, and he's deadly. Also physically terrifying. Yeah, exactly.
KipOh, he's very dangerous.
TheresaYeah.
KipBut uh Kimi mentions his insurance policy.
TheresaYeah, that was the wrong insurance policy.
KipYeah, Ben does not care. The minute he was like, I have to Do you yeah, did you actually rewind it to see the bicep again?
TheresaNo, I just made a mental picture. Yeah, I just took a mental picture because he just lifted. I was like, hello.
KipBut like wrong audience. Do you believe it when Ben like what did he go? You killed my daughter? Oh no. Like it didn't seem like I I was trying to decide was that the acting, or Ben just as a character, was using that as an excuse.
AmandaI 100% believe it's the latter.
KipOkay, yeah.
AmandaBecause like even after he does it, and I think we're getting into the second episode now, because we I do think we want to like leave it on that button of his line because I thought that was funny. But he like this whole like, oh yeah, you know, I I agree with you. So what I'll say, because he he does lash out and kills him, even though John's like, don't. And then he kind of says, you know, everyone on the boat cares. Everyone's gonna be killed in his own. And he says so.
KipWho cares?
AmandaYeah, so and it was very funny because I was with Teresa when she watched, and when he was explaining that to Ben, she said exactly what she said in her stream of consciousness, which was he doesn't care. Yeah, like that's not gonna stop him. Innocent people then he doesn't give a shit. No, exactly. And he proved that, and like he does not care. Like, and he was never gonna care. No, and then when we start up on the next episode, slash continue on with this storyline, and Ben or Locke's kind of saying to him, like, you know, how how could you do that? And he's like, Well, you know, sometimes leadership decisions are clouded by emotional responses, you'll do better. And it's like that's such bullshit. Like he he doesn't allow that to happen.
KipThat's right.
AmandaHe is so full of shit. He just wanted Kimi dead, yeah, and he didn't care who got.
KipI think, yeah, he wanted to keep me dead as like a F you to Widmore, more of like a you killed my daughter, and to protect himself, yeah, right?
AmandaLike at the end of the day, like Kimi is there for him. Yeah, at the end of the day, Ben will do what he has to do to protect himself, yeah. If it also accomplishes avenging his daughter or this and that, but to to suggest it was an emotional outburst and not a calculated decision to take Kimi out is is wrong.
KipExactly. So, yeah, that was quite the scene because it puts that little green light to red.
AmandaAnd we never really talked about what they were doing on the boat, did we?
KipNo.
AmandaHave we seen much of that yet? Yeah, because it the whole time it's green, right? Right. Right. So we didn't talk really about that, but that's really not the most interesting thing happening.
KipLike we saw the C4 last time, and yeah, I thought it was kind of interesting or funny how much Desmond's kind of losing it because he's like, I don't I don't know anything about this anymore.
AmandaYeah, it's very funny. So essentially, Michael comes up with this plan to freeze it, freeze it, which I don't know if the science is good on that, but sure. And Desmond is like, well, first of all, when they're explaining it all, and he just goes oh, boom, boom, and then Jin's like, boom. I thought that was very cute that he was following along. But Desmond's like, I kind of know how to do this. I did this for months, and then he's like, I we just have to do all of these things. And Michael's like, I'm gonna keep freezing it when you figure that out. And Desmond's like, I've figured it. If we cut this one, and then literally Jin's like follows a string or like a wire for like half a foot, and he's like, No. Yeah, and I'm like, that's obvious. It was that you can't do that. How'd you miss that? Like, I don't know anything about this. Literally, like, like Desmond had this like sketch and these notes, and he's like, by golly, I finally got it. And then literally he Jin picks up the like length of a live wire and is like, no. Yeah, and I'm like, that to me was and he's like, Okay, fine, I don't know what I'm doing, but very funny. I don't think it was supposed to be that funny, but it was very blue. Yeah, yeah. Good thing Jin's there, you know, is all I'll say.
KipI love Jin.
AmandaOr they'd be blown up.
KipYeah, so and then so then yeah, we've seen all that, and then the light does go red or green or whatever.
AmandaIt was green, it goes red when Kimi's dies heart stops or whatever, which Kimi is fucked in the head. Like, truly, I really couldn't miss that guy. Miss his body. He's a good, he's a good little bad guy.
KipHe has a good end here, he's a good big bad guy.
AmandaSo, um I also think technically in this episode we missed out on the fact that Sawyer jumps in this episode.
KipI think that's just about to happen because it's sort of like Sawyer jumps and then they're on the chopper as the bomb turns red, because that's like that confluence of their coming back.
AmandaBut that technically happens in the second part. Because the first part ends on him saying so, right?
KipOh, so Sawyer jumps before then.
AmandaWhat are we saying? First part, second part. The first episode? Well, we're yeah we watched them as two episodes though. But you know what I mean? Did you watch it as two episodes?
KipWell, like together, but yeah, technically there was like a lost between it.
AmandaOh, interesting.
KipYeah.
AmandaSo that happened with the sew, right? That was the last thing in the episode, wasn't it?
KipI can't remember.
AmandaBecause I thought it was like very like maybe I'm wrong. I don't know.
KipEither way, it doesn't matter.
AmandaAt some point they're on the thing. And because swear jumps before they get back to the freighter.
KipYes, because it's very sad because they're trying to they got holes punched through with bullets and gas is leaking out.
TheresaI'm surprised I didn't smell that sooner, honestly.
KipWhen they were like that gas would have been coming out while they were still on the ground.
TheresaYeah, and it's not like we're not talking about trickle, like it's like a someone opened a spout and it's just yeah.
KipAnyway, details. Yeah. Um But I thought it was sad when they were trying to like lose the weight.
TheresaAnd the camera went to Hurley.
KipFlashes to Hurley. And like I all I was thinking, like, he's probably having trauma flashbacks to the deck incident. And because like that was what got him into like a institution in the first place. And it's just like now he feels suddenly responsible again. But Sawyer to the rescue is like, no, no, not on my watch.
AmandaAnd he doesn't even really think about it, right? Like he the the only thing he really stops to think about is telling Kate to go look for his daughter, yeah, right, and kiss her goodbye. Yeah, and then it's so I just love that scene very much. Then she's like, Why are you telling me all this?
KipHe kisses her, and then he literally just jumps with like no no warning, no grand
Ben’s Endgame And New Leadership
Kipgoodbye, no like, yeah, it was a very good scene.
AmandaAnd it is enough to get them to the freighter, and Desmond tries to stop them from landing. And I also thought that scene was kind of interesting because they're like, like, would they really be able to hear him saying bomb? Like when they're in the coming out of the thing. He's like, Did he say bomb?
TheresaLike, it's very but anyway, there was bomb, so they shouldn't have landed, but they did because they had to be options on the chopper was probably one of the most frustrating why because the amount of times he was yelling at Lapidas to do things, and I'm like, You're the passenger, like saying he couldn't get to like he's like, We have to go back to the island.
AmandaHe's like, No, you're not landing on the island.
TheresaLike, what are you driving? Then you shut it. You should probably listen to Lapidas, like pretty smart. He's the one, he's piloting this thing, he's telling you you have no fuel, you have to do this, you have to.
KipYeah, but Lapidas also said they wouldn't make it back to the island.
TheresaYeah. So it's like No, but I mean from the get, like, Jack was kind of like, I didn't think there's anything wrong with it. Go to the boat, you gotta find the boat, and he's like, Well, I don't see it. And then it was like He's we can't land here. Well, we have to. Like, you know what I mean? It's like, oh no shit. Like just reacting. Yeah, well, he needs to settle down. He's dressed because Sawyer just jumped out. Well, you know what? He needs to just settle down because he's treating Lapidas a little like a doom doom.
AmandaSo I I found when they're actually on the boat, and like now we could just kind of go by storyline if we wanted supposed to scene by scene, but I I felt that like they were when they were on the boat. Okay. It was very chaotic as to what was happening. And like I it's not clear to me like how long they were really there. Minutes. Minutes. I guess he did say five minutes. Yeah.
TheresaThree minutes ago.
KipSo uh yeah, it was funny because I thought when we saw the bombs at first, it was like right inside that door. It takes gin, like five fucking hallways and three stairwells to well, because it seems like everybody who leaves that room comes up in like two seconds. Jin takes forever.
AmandaI'm like, is he lost? Like that was like so son didn't want to leave Jin. Jin wasn't gonna leave Michael, but Michael, like in a very nice, like kind of scene, convinces him to. And that's probably Michael's nicest moment.
KipYeah, and also like, thank you, Michael. Like, Jin, are you insane? I know. Like, why are you not Sun will kill you? Exactly. That was so dumb of Jin.
AmandaTo be like, I'm gonna stay. It's like, yeah. But you said Desmond, like, no, you should. If anything, Desmond should have stayed and you should have gone. Desmond dipped so Desmond doesn't even think he didn't even think twice. He's like, get by. And then I mean, to be fair, Desmond in his mind was telling them to leave and trying to get people off too, right? So he's helping it in like jackets for people, and yeah, but Jinn not wanting to leave his typical Jin. And by the time he comes around to it, um, they're flying off. And Kate had told Son, I'll go get him, get on with the baby, and Jack. And then Jack won't let her. And so they all get on and they're flying away.
TheresaOh, that was that was Jin makes it to the deck. I literally got heartbreaking chills on my deck. She's like, Let's go back. We have to go back.
KipSun's not the thing. Yeah.
AmandaOh, that was a great, great scene, great acting from Fujin Kim.
KipOh, yeah, it was wild. It was just true. I wonder if she got nominated.
AmandaOkay, but did you guys know she never got nominated? What? That was so good, such good acting.
TheresaSo everybody's like trying to hold her back or whatever. And in my mind, I'm like, who has the baby? Because like son had the baby, and now the baby's not in her arms, and she's freaking out, and everyone's holding babies. Everyone's holding her back. And in the back is Desmond with just his hands over his mouth like this.
KipYeah.
TheresaNothing else.
KipNo motion. Just oh, I remember that. It's like he's like, what's happening?
AmandaTo be fair, Desmond. I always kind of kind of forget. It's kind of new to this. What is happening?
KipYeah.
AmandaBut that way, oh, she I literally heartbreaking was bawling. It was so sad.
KipAnd then boom.
TheresaThe whole time I was like, Jin, jump, jump off, jump, jump. You can do it.
KipBut yeah, it was it was tragic. And I will not come to Jack's defense in this scene, but good lord, he needs some bedside matter. He has none.
AmandaIt's gone.
KipHe's gone.
AmandaBut he starts with it's gone.
KipAnd I'm like, she doesn't give a shit about the boat.
AmandaIs he talking about the boat right now? Like, it's gone. He's gone. Like Jesus.
TheresaI know she's freaking out, but give her like 10 seconds. She literally watched. Yeah, like that's a pretty traumatizing thing to witness.
KipJack, just sit the fuck down.
TheresaYeah, like say nothing. I mean, no wonder she's mad is trying so hard to like hold her. Hold her and like calm her down. And like Desmond's just got his mouth covered.
KipAnd Kate's like trying to cover the baby and like it's because like she Jack does infer that, or basically says that later in the episode, or the second episode, of Jin blames me for and we're supposed to fill in the blanks, like Jin's death, basically. Or maybe he outright says it, but basically, yeah, she wants nothing to do with him off island. Or the others for that matter, other than maybe Hurley.
AmandaHurley, who came to you know.
KipYeah, so it's uh that was a wild ride. And then they don't know what they're gonna do because they're still losing fuel very fast, even though he put duct tape on it.
TheresaThat solves everything, so that's weird. And they only refueled it for five minutes. Five minutes.
KipThat's true. That's true. So they wouldn't have had a lot of people.
AmandaAnd that's what I was saying earlier is what I forgot about because I didn't I couldn't remember. I I had a visceral memory of Sawyer dropping from it, and I knew at some point they went and got sun. Yeah. And I did not know. I couldn't remember, and I knew the the freighter blue with Jin and Michael on it, but I couldn't remember like where Faraday, and I remember the scene where Sawyer swims up and Juliet's on the beach, and I couldn't remember exactly where Faraday ended up when all this happened, and I couldn't remember exactly how they got from the helicopter back to. And it turns out that their story is like relatively like they did go to another island and picked up on that island because their their helicopter falls into the ocean. Yeah, which by the way, that scene is terrifying, and like the fact that they just fell into the ocean with a baby. I know, and I'm glad they acknowledge that when they say when he's like, Is she is he okay? And they're like, Yeah, it's a miracle. It is like everyone surviving that would have been a miracle, but the baby No kidding. She's just holding him.
TheresaI'm like the fact they didn't let go on impact is like again.
KipThank you, Saeed. Threw that raft life raft down.
TheresaI know he's just he's Saeed's the best.
KipShock they didn't toss that out when they're trying to lose the weight, though. That one somehow got missed. Thankfully, yeah, thankfully, thankfully, that would have been another how this should have ended.
AmandaYeah, it just ends there. It's like, oh, we actually tossed that out already. Oh, damn, and then they all just die. They have nothing ending.
TheresaI mean, they're just floating in the water.
AmandaYeah, they help. Yeah.
KipSo yeah, and then uh are we at oh yeah, Sawyer swims up. His shirt is gone. I I I also think in reality, he probably would have lost the jeans too, because he probably lost his shirt to be able to swim better. Jeans are heavy when they're wet.
AmandaSo heavy. If anything, the the I mean, I guess the sh shirt probably like restricted his arms.
KipBut yeah, the jeans he certainly would have.
TheresaHe should have taken it all off.
AmandaYeah, he should have been naked, he would have been a lot more aerodynamic.
TheresaNo, the jeans he's water jeans are impossible to swim in.
KipYeah, but he makes it back miraculously to where Juliet's having a little drink.
TheresaHe looks fine and he is charismatic. Like, why is he always charismatic? Like he's so great. What I feel like is like five to twenty miles. Five to twenty on a bearing, maybe.
KipAnd bearing to Juliet's.
AmandaI think once you're in the we because you mentioned that in your thing too, and I had thought about that. I think once you're in within a certain diameter of I just like saying bearing, man. No, I agree, but I I just bring it up because I had thought that too. I'm like, how is it that like there's like a there's like a perimeter. There's a perimeter that once you're in, you're kind of in the islands.
KipThe bearing is to get out of
Turning The Wheel Moving The Island
Kipthe perimeter properly, yeah. Or in back into it.
AmandaYeah.
KipAnd uh yeah, Juliet's very sad. And then we see the smoke on the horizon.
AmandaAnd so I was like, is that our boat?
TheresaAnd he's like, it was.
KipOh, rough.
TheresaYeah, she just looks she looks wrecked when she because she looks kind of like out of it. And I'm like, oh, this girl does not look okay.
AmandaI thought she looked very resigned, which like to me was kind of like a Juliet type thing where it's like, here yet again, I'm fucking stuck. I'm stuck. Like, and yeah, because I wanted to help people.
KipYeah, exactly. Uh she just can't get off this island. So sad.
AmandaYeah.
KipAnd then I think we get to the wheel turning, the Arctic.
AmandaThere's a few other like off-island things. Like, we did we actually talk about when Sun visits Woodmore? No, Nayam.
KipBut I think she's kind of mad. I think that happens after, doesn't it? Because the wheel, I think it's turned. I remember thinking, oh, that was sooner than I thought.
AmandaI don't remember exactly because we also still have other flashbacks of Said and Hurley and Kate and Jack. So at any point, Sun is like clearly pissed.
KipYeah.
AmandaAnd I think it happens before we see Jin die because I remember thinking, like, why is she so pissed? And then seeing, like, yeah, that's probably why. But it implies that she's like trying to work with him. Yeah. Right.
KipAgainst Ben or the others. Like Jack.
AmandaA lot of animosity. Right. And yeah, and then a lot of power.
TheresaYeah, she's scary. Yeah.
AmandaSo when it comes to the wheel turning, Ben essentially just sends Locke off. Like he blows up that thing, there's a hole in the wall, and he sends Locke off to be the new leader of the others. And they kind of share a moment. They shake hands.
KipYeah. It's kind of like, okay, I guess this is how it ends. And do you believe Ben when he was like, sorry, I made your life so difficult?
AmandaNo.
TheresaI never know what to believe with Ben. I don't know. I feel like it was like one of those like this is over, quote unquote. And that's like kind of like his like ending of it. But like it's not actually over.
AmandaYeah. It's kind of like when he said goodbye to Jack when Jack left, too, right? It's just like, okay, you gotta go. We gotta get off this island. Goodbye. Nice bye.
KipLike yeah, he probably said it just to like just to say it. Give Locke a little bit of a if if he is truly believing Locke's the next leader to kind of like give him a little bit of a puffed up chest and kind of something to motivate him a bit, feel good about himself.
AmandaAnd then he's on his journey through the wall, through the ice caves, yeah.
KipWhat well I'm sure it's cold where there's anti exotic fourth dimensional matter, whatever they called it. So random.
AmandaUm can we talk for for uh like actually give it the did do it? I think it's deserved. What are we what are we gonna do? Which one? Which is when he's actually turning the wheel, it's actually quite emotional.
KipIt's actually quite first of all. I love that set. It's so cool. It feels very Indiana Jones like that. Yeah, it does feel veryphics on the wall and like this rickety old ladder, and some like pillars and yeah, it was awesome.
TheresaThe only thing is, it's a good Canadian girl. If that shit is that frozen, his hands would be stuck.
AmandaSome gloves and some warm water. It's like the minute you stick your tongue back.
KipThe minute you touch it, I was like, Oh, he's fucked. He's not getting those hands off.
TheresaHe's gonna lose a layer of skin easily.
AmandaBut we so that's kind of happening, like he's starting to turn it when he gets in there. We see that it's kind of this, and he lights a little thing and he's about to turn it. At the same time, that like Faraday is trying to, you know, get people back and forth.
KipFairy's on Faraday's on the sea, yeah.
AmandaYeah, and Juliet and Twittering thing, and then the the helicopter people are circulating. And at this point, Jack says go to the island. Get back, yeah. Like he wants them to go to the island to try to get, I guess, other people, or at least he knows that they have no fuel, something. So he's now said, Let's go back to the island. I'm okay with that, essentially, is what he's saying.
KipAnd that's kind of the the atmosphere to which we find Ben and Jack or John Locke has met with Richard and the other others, and they all look up to him. Well, welcome.
AmandaRichard says, Yeah, welcome home. So that's kind of like the atmosphere to which we find ourselves with this wheel being.
KipAnd we don't know, like we know because we've seen it, but like they've said you're gonna move the island, but like, what does that mean? Because how do you move an island? Yeah, and they call it the frozen donkey wheel. What that's what they call it.
AmandaThat's it. You're joking. No, that's what fans call it for sure. The frozen donkey wheel.
KipThe frozen donkey wheel. And it was never supposed to be like released because that they just called it that as like to help for like staging.
AmandaYeah, okay.
KipAnd then it just now everybody knows that's what it's called.
TheresaThat's hilarious.
AmandaI thought you were joking. It's also, I can't remember if we mentioned that like Locke is explicitly told by Ben that he can't return to the island if he moves it.
TheresaYes, Ben can't come back. So he knows that.
AmandaBut I feel it, or at least something related to it, because he's so emotional when he's doing it. And to me, that was like the first actual, like sincere emotion that I believed from Ben. Like as he's moving it, and like maybe at first glance it just he's like exerting himself or whatever, but you see that it's emotion. Like, yeah, he's upset that he has to do this. Yeah, and so I have to think it's because he at least believes what he's being told, which is that he won't be able to return. And that island means more to him than Alex ever did, yeah. Than any of the rest of this stuff ever did.
KipI agree that he is emotional because he's leaving the island. I don't think Ben ever thinks something is a hundred percent, but I think he's very emotional because he knows he's leaving, and this island, like you say, has meant more to him than anything else, and this chapter is now over. What's gonna happen? I'm I'm sure he's already thinking how he's gonna find a way to get back.
TheresaOh, yeah.
KipThat was but like I agree that this was a very emotional for him, and like you say, the first real emotion we see him we see from him is because he's leaving the island. And I think also because he's like lost power. Yeah, like he's no longer in charge and he's admitted so much to John, and and he's now has to figure out how he can regain power by coming back, or wherever he ends up off island, which we are led to believe is gonna be very cold. Oh no, it's cold. He needs the jacket because he's gonna go down to the Arctic Cave, but then it's hot where he ends up. But like, how's he gonna get power there?
TheresaRight, like he's starting off from scratch, kind of yeah, but like even that, like, he's not even really because somehow he's globe trotting.
KipI know, I know.
TheresaHe's got all these, he's like um dude Moriarty or whatever he called himself the thing. So, like, I don't understand how this works.
KipSo, like he must have caches of resources scattered around the globe.
TheresaBecause he's just he's just like literally globetrotting, yeah, and has unlimited resources, like on whose funds?
KipYeah, right. So he's got he's got himself set up, but yeah, for sure he's emotional because he has to go. He has to go.
AmandaYeah, yeah. And so he moves the frozen donkey wheel, and then as they're literally flying towards the island to land, yeah, very high squeal sound, and then it gets very bright, and there's a blinding light, and then that was a good scene.
KipWow, when it disappears, because it could have been hokey. It could have been quite hokey.
AmandaYeah, I thought, especially for what would that have been like 2007, 2008? Yeah, not bad.
KipNo, and I like the little ripples in the water after that.
AmandaYeah, they did a good job, and yeah, the blinding light, and just and then it's just gone.
KipLike the blinding light's a good use, a good use for the TV show because it's like then they don't have to show anything. So but it worked. Like it also, yeah, it was very successful. It was very effective, but also saved them from like being like, How do the mountains move? How do the trees move?
TheresaYeah, like is it like a what happens to the people? Does it move as a map?
KipDoes it kind of like get picked up?
TheresaLike, what's the situation?
KipYeah, so that was a really fantastic scene. And like honestly, who who kind of saw it coming like back in the day? I'm sure it was very, even though they said move the island, how do you like how do you expect something like that? It was awesome. Awesome. I loved it. I still love it.
TheresaAnd then we have Jacko. He's drunk driving, pill driving, drug driving.
KipYeah, he's hopped up. Well, so yeah, we have Jack driving. We have Did we talk about uh um Kate's nightmare?
TheresaBriefly.
KipI I can tell you what
The Raft The Searcher And The Lie
Kiphe is heard. Okay, what is it? Because it's terrifying. It's backwards talking.
AmandaOh my god.
KipOh and when you play it forward, it says um the island needs you, you have to go back before it's too late. And then we see Claire saying, don't go back, basically.
TheresaSo it's like Well, she says don't take it all back.
KipOh, right, right.
TheresaRight. So Claire's like, you come back, you leave him here with somebody.
AmandaAnd man, Emily DeRavan is really getting her money's worth here. Like, I feel bad for her. Um, but yeah, that that scene is very I'd like to know if she actually has that gun. Oh, I'm sure. Or just dream Kate has that gun. Because I don't think that Kate should have a gun at this point.
KipI don't think that would be allowed. Yeah, but yeah, she did make a lot of noise.
TheresaSo if there was an intruder, they'd know where she was, they'd be like, Oh, let's go upstairs. She's throwing shit. Oh, oh, we did miss a brief cameo by Daddy Shep.
KipOh, yeah.
TheresaOh yeah, when he says you can go now to Michael.
KipYeah. So Michael gets his relief.
TheresaYeah. He goes, bye-bye. Could you imagine surviving that blow?
KipSo why was it him who appeared to Michael? Michael's never seen him before.
TheresaI mean, that's why he says, Who are you?
KipI know, but why is it is it Christian Shepherd? No idea. Is it because of the finale, the series finale? I think so. Okay. That's okay. You know that. You know what I'm talking about.
TheresaI don't actually. What do you mean?
AmandaThe church scene. Oh.
KipI mean, it's either that's his role in that.
TheresaOkay, wait, are we saying that it's like legit done?
AmandaOr it could be the smoke monster. But can you be though?
KipBut that's what I don't know.
TheresaThat doesn't even make sense. I feel like it would make more sense for it to be because of the ending.
AmandaBut Michael isn't really in the ending though. Oh, that's true. He doesn't get to enjoy the fruits of that labor.
TheresaBut how would but how would the thing get there though?
AmandaWell, do we maybe he can also leave a certain amount of the island? The perimeter. Like, I don't know. I'm just I agree. I think that seems a little bit out of it.
KipIt felt a little out of left field. Um, it's like, why him?
AmandaIs there an explanation on that? You guys talk amongst yourselves.
KipSo I don't know. Until we get to that, um like before we get to Jack breaking in and pill like high driving, drunk driving, whatever it is, we do have to go through them being rescued by new penny's boat.
TheresaYes. Oh my god, I forgot about that.
KipYeah. So um old Penny's boat, fake Penny's boat gets blown up. New penny boat comes to their rescue.
TheresaSearcher.
KipSearcher. Cute.
TheresaSearcher.
KipSo then and Jack lays it down. They gotta lie.
TheresaYeah. I think it's very interesting that so like Desmond, they're like, take it around the or she's like, take it around the back, and Desmond's like, I gotta get up. So he like gets up there and they have this beautiful, like it was beautiful, beautiful moment together. And then they finally get the people from the boat up on the thing, and Desmond's doing the sweetest thing of like introducing the role to her.
KipThat was really cute. Like, this is Kate. This is Saeed.
TheresaThis is Frank. Yeah. And I'm like, that's so weird. And then Jack ruins it by being like, We're gonna talk. It doesn't ruin it. Why don't you just give us a second to have a rate? Do you know what I mean? But it takes a second.
KipHe's gotta get down to business.
TheresaWe need to talk. Jack.
KipWell, they do need to talk.
TheresaYes, but you know, take a second. Give it a couple.
KipHe has no seconds to take. He's a very serious man.
TheresaAnd I've been in the sea. I've sweat through it. I think it's open.
KipBeen in the sea.
TheresaI I'm pretty sure it's infected. Do you have a medical day? That's what he needs to say.
KipMaybe that's what he wanted to talk about. When he said we need to talk, maybe that was it. Yeah.
TheresaThere's a hole in my life.
KipSore.
AmandaIt's really bad.
KipWhat did you find?
AmandaSo it's the idea is apparently that the reason anyone appears to Michael and says you can go now is because it was the island that was keeping him from dying. Yeah. And so that was his like at last act of penance, so he would be allowed to die. So there is literally like a divided debate as to whether it is the man in black or if it's an apparition, like a spirit of the island, which is arguably Yeah.
KipI mean, I guess that would make sense that that's the debate.
AmandaUm that's literally what we were just talking about. I know, but like why? So that that's the debate. And a few positions to support each side is that if it was just a manifestation of the island or his like belief about what was happening, why would it be Daddy Shabb?
TheresaSomeone he's never met.
AmandaSomeone he's never met, that also is meaningful to us. Like it could just have been like him talking to nothing, like when he talks to Mr. Echo, or it could have been Walt saying you can go now, or Ben, or someone like that. So that's what leads people to believe that it must be MIB. But then there's some people who said that apparently in the final season, I don't remember this, you probably remember more, that it's established that he can't cross water.
KipSo then people are like, I don't remember that being specifically established.
AmandaAnd then someone else on Reddit was like, but that also was a rule that maybe wasn't established when they wrote this episode.
KipYeah, exactly.
AmandaIt seems like a lot of people want to believe it's MIB I just don't know why behalf of the island.
KipM IB would do that.
TheresaI don't either. I feel like that's too kind.
KipYeah, exactly. Like, I don't know if he would want like he what what what is Michael to him? Like, I don't think Michael was a tool for MIB, he was a tool for Ben.
TheresaYeah, that doesn't make a lot of sense.
AmandaBut apparently the the debt that Ben was like Michael's like being tied to not be able to die was to connect it to the island and not to Ben.
KipThat's true.
AmandaSo like it was because he was so bad on the island that he had to make up. For before he could be released from his debt to it. So that's the connection to MIB. It has nothing to do with Ben.
KipAnd and as we come to learn in season six, MIB is a complicated character. He ain't so black and white.
TheresaNothing is black and white.
KipNo. As much as Lost wants you to believe it.
TheresaYeah, so we're just gonna cut all this shit out.
AmandaNo, I think it's fine to keep it. There's no spoilers when it comes to MIB, really.
KipThere's no spoilers. It's fine. We keep it.
unknownYeah.
AmandaYeah. We have to, but it doesn't make sense to talk about it.
KipYeah.
unknownYeah.
TheresaWell, we just pretend you didn't come up with anything.
KipNo, it's staying.
TheresaJust cut it up.
KipSo yeah, so they're on New Penny's boat.
TheresaThe searcher.
KipThe searcher. And it was a beautiful scene when Beautiful and Penny read.
TheresaAmanda bawling.
KipBalling.
AmandaBalling. Balling between that and the Jin and Sun thing being in the same episode is unfair to my heart.
KipIt was a a season finale for the book. I know. Did you cry? I did not.
TheresaI also did not.
KipUm, I did almost cry uh at one point. What was it? Actually, it was Desmond and Penny. I did cry a little bit. Oh, okay. I did not. Oh, so bright. I just like their story. How can you?
AmandaThey just think they've come across this random boat.
KipYeah.
AmandaAnd it's Penny's boat finally.
KipWith like her like what? Oh Spaniards or Russians or whatever.
AmandaAnd then she's like, she was willing to help them even before she knew who it was. Like, hey, bring them around. And then she's like, and then they run to each other and they kiss, and it's beautiful.
KipAnd it's interesting because that's the first time the actress Sonya Wagner or whatever met anybody other than Desmond.
AmandaWhen she's introduced, she's like, Oh, nice to meet you. It's all genuine. Yeah.
KipThat's why they did the intro scene. But yeah, so very good scene. Um, and but it lays the groundwork before they even get to the searcher of Jack saying, Locke was right, we're gonna have to lie. And I guess what's the reason? Just that like he lays it out whoever believes. Yeah, so it's to but like I don't know. I was also, but the island just disappeared, so how are they gonna find it?
AmandaI guess if they found it once he doesn't really know where what that means, so yeah. And I'm not even sure, like he said, he's not even convinced it happened, right?
KipLike he's Oh, yeah, that was so funny.
AmandaAnd Harley's like, uh, so what's your explanation, dude?
KipSo Jack, just give up, give in. Give up already, buddy. Yeah, for one moment in your life, just recognize the reality of what just happened.
TheresaSomething freaky just happened.
KipIt's very funny. Um okay. Uh, and then where are we? So is it the end? I think so. Well, we see them get onto that fishing island.
TheresaYeah, so they And have scrap wood. I don't know where that came from.
KipWhere would that even come from on the boat? That's what I'm saying. Or the plane, I mean. Like if they're going with a plane crash story.
AmandaI yeah, I thought they went a little like, okay, get this dirty shirt on and the dirty, the dirty clothes and like the blood on their face.
TheresaI was like, why are they still dirty? And then I was like, Oh, okay, they're putting it together. The scrap wood was a little bit weird, but then I just realized like theoretically in their story, they were on an island.
KipOh, that's right.
TheresaYeah, so there could have been like shipwreck pieces there or something, like in pirate times.
KipBecause like boats aren't really But how why would Penny have that too?
TheresaLike I well, that's what I was like, okay, you guys. You never know, but at least it does explain why Lapidas and Desi aren't with them.
KipYeah, yeah, exactly.
AmandaSo they still wonder because I I remember that episode with the Oceanic crew or like spokesperson or whatever. I was like, okay, so are they in on it? I know, yeah. Yeah, because maybe they're in on it because they also know that that wreckage wasn't real or whatever, or is it and so it makes I I think this is much more ex believable.
KipYeah, now we now we can believe that Oceanic's not in on it. We can believe that like Penny's helping, because she also has a lot of resources. Well, exactly. So she's helping Lapitas and and Desmond sort of fly under the radar.
TheresaBecause even that, she's just like she's like, How did you find me? And she's like, I tracked your phone call. And I was like, Yeah, cool. That's what so them must be like when you have millions and millions of dollars at your disposal and you can track a disappearing island. She's very smart, very resourceful that one.
KipYeah. And then we get to um Jack driving very recklessly listening to loud rock music.
TheresaYeah.
KipOh my god. I loved when he kicked that door into it.
TheresaOh yeah, that was hot. But also, like, maybe let's just not.
KipHe's not in his right frame of mind.
TheresaOh no, no, no, not at all. No. And then Ben scares the bejesus out of me and appears out of nowhere. Ben looks good off island. He does.
KipHe had a little bit of uh glow up. Yeah, he had a nice shower. Yeah, clothes. So let's talk about this finale scene, because it is uh dozy.
AmandaJack's also just off the rail the rails, though, like breaking into shit, and he goes and he opens. What is he doing there?
KipYeah, good question.
AmandaWhat is his plan for being there right then?
KipI guess it's just answers to like just see him again, probably.
Jack’s Spiral And Coffin Reveal
KipBecause like he he he doesn't know what to do. Like he's very lost. My favorite line of the whole finale, maybe even this season, has been saying, I hear you're flying on passenger flights, Jack, hoping they'll crash. That's dark, Jack. Very dark.
AmandaIt is dark. It's really messed up.
KipBut like, so he's just like, obviously, we know we've seen he's not in a good place, and and Jeremy Bentham has come to talk to him, convinces him he's gotta go back to fix the bad things that have happened. Which I was trying to remember what those bad things were, and I think I remember.
TheresaDo we do we ever get to see that conversation between them?
KipI'm sure.
TheresaYes, and also the bad things are many bad things, I think. Because I don't remember either of those things. I'm like Jack's just like not a believer. So like to get him to this point is like I I want to know what that conversation is because I'm having a hard time like getting him to this point.
KipWell, and it's clearly like wrecked him.
TheresaWell, exactly. Like he's so messed up. Like I know that he was kind of on the pills um after he saw his dad at the hospital. So like obviously he was already on a bit of a slippery slope there, but like how do you go from I don't believe, I don't believe, I'm believe to being like Yeah, like we gotta go. We have to go back. Yeah, you know.
KipBecause that's the thing that was season three finale where he yelled we have to go back and we're now at season four finale and we know he's gotta we still don't quite know why though.
TheresaYeah, like there. Even saying like bad things, I'm like bad things very generic, like I don't mean anything. Yeah, so and like I don't know that if just like even basing it on like the conversation that he and Locke had at the orchid, orchid, right? Orchid, where he's essentially being like, Oh, like, you know, I want you to stay and blah blah all this other shit, and Jack's like, fuck you, no. Like a part of me feels like if Locke went to him was like, you have to go back as bad things happened, he'd be like, What bad things? Like, what the fuck?
KipYeah, like there's clearly more to that conversation.
TheresaSo I I'm like so curious about what that would be to like legitimately convince him and essentially drive him to like madness. Like I do not know. We'll see. Is it good?
AmandaIs it oh it's all pretty juicy?
TheresaIt's juicy.
AmandaBut it I mean, yeah, everything to do with Locke slash Jeremy Bentham going forward is juicy.
TheresaIt's juicy. Like, also more questions. How do we get off the island? Other question, yeah, yeah. Why has it got a new name? Is he doing that? Is he kind of like where Ben is?
AmandaBut it's not a new name, he's they still have to hide him, right? Like that's that's probably the easiest one to answer.
TheresaI thought maybe it's because he's doing that Ben thing where Ben has 10,000 names when he's off the island.
AmandaRight, probably. So yeah, so then Ben's convincing him that everyone's got the problem, is that they all have to go.
KipYeah, it can't just be Jack.
TheresaYeah, but why? I don't know. You know what I mean? So many more the whole conversation. I was like, but what?
KipYeah, including Jeremy Bentham.
AmandaBut I agree that it is a little bit interesting how there are, I think, more questions raised than answered by Ben's appearance, and it is crazy to me that Jack is going along with it so well. That's how that to me is a a sign he's fallen more than the drugs, more than the leaving gate. Yeah. So now he's like blindly accepting the words of Benjamin Linus.
TheresaAnd that's yeah, well, and that's one of the things that I wrote. I was like, you know that this man is not trustworthy. You know that nothing he says is a good idea, but you're just like, you're just nodding a lot. I'm like, do not nod.
KipDo not nod.
TheresaLike, no.
KipNo, he was nodding.
TheresaHe was not, he was very quick to nod.
KipYeah, and then we get the reveal. It's Locke. John Locke. Jeremy Bentham is John Locke.
AmandaThat's fucked.
KipYeah.
AmandaThat shit ain't right.
KipThat shit ain't right. And that's it. Loss is over.
TheresaAnd that is like a that is a loss. And then there's more questions because Sayuz says like it was ruled a suicide.
KipRight, right.
TheresaAnd which leaves me really with that. He c I mean he clearly does not believe it was suicide. Yeah, it was ruled.
AmandaI love that scene too when he he goes to he's like, Why won't you call him his name? His name was, and he's like, No, we're being watched. Like, I like that Hurley and even like his innocence was still like, dude, like it's Locke, like, like what are we doing here? Like, we gotta stop this stuff. It's nuts. But yeah.
TheresaAnd then he's playing chess with Mr. Echo.
AmandaOh, that was cute.
TheresaYeah. Also terrifying. I thought he was playing by himself. Well, yeah, but also I knew he was playing with Mr. Echo.
KipOh, yeah. So that's it for season four.
TheresaSo that was a trip.
KipYeah. Very good season. Great finale. Do we have character rankings? Do we want to talk about the season at all, or are we just gonna leave it at that?
AmandaYeah, let's let's do the character ranking,
Why Jeremy Bentham Matters
Amandamaybe our rate our rankings of the episode. And then we can chat for like a few minutes.
KipYeah, just about the season as a whole.
AmandaWhat are our character rankings?
TheresaAlright, well, it is the end of the season. And that means that these are the final rankings for season four. Michael, may he rest in peace. Finalemente. Is that number 17 with a whopping negative 7,840.
KipBrutal.
TheresaFollowed by Ben. Number 16, negative 455. Miles at number 15 with negative 150. Closely followed by Charlotte with negative 145. Then we dip and over over to let's try that again. Then we dip over into the positives. With Lapidus with 250. Then we have Faraday with 330. Kate with 850. Locke at number 10 with an 895. We have Claire at number 9 with 910. Desmond at number 8 with 1,120. We have Juliet at number 7 with 1,220. Jack at number 6 with 1,890. Sun at number 5 with 2,075. Jin at number 4 with 2,270. Sawyer at number 3 with 2,915. Said at number 2 with 3,120. And at the end of season 4, at number 1, holding strong, our king, Hurley, Hugo Reyes with 3,430.
KipWow. He ain't never fallen from that.
AmandaHe ain't never fallen. You think so?
KipI mean, it'd be hard. I don't know what's gonna happen.
TheresaHe doesn't get worse. I don't think really. But he does he do more.
KipGood things, yes.
AmandaLike a lot? Yes.
KipOh, yeah. He's more than other people.
AmandaI I think no different than the trajectory we've already found ourselves on.
KipAnd I don't think nothing drastically changes.
AmandaNo one else becomes so much better while Hurley like stays the same or dives. Like it that hasn't already happened. I think we're following. Yeah.
TheresaSo you got so it's a similar path going forward. Early predictions for the end of the series is that Hurley stays at number one. Yes. I think so, yes. I would like that cemented, please. We've both said it multiple times. $20.
KipNo, that's it.
TheresaNo, because you can you can affect it. I'm not gonna remember.
KipOh I'm not taking this bet because I don't believe it. Oh, I believe. I mean, I do believe it.
TheresaYou'll take one. 20 bucks says he's still the 20 bucks says he's not.
AmandaAgain, I'm betting with someone who has the ability to control the outcome. That's how much I believe in Hurley.
KipHow much do you won't even 20 bucks?
TheresaLike that? By the time we get to season five, this bet will not exist.
KipFirst of all, it's gonna be season six.
TheresaWhat?
KipWe have two more seasons to get through.
TheresaOh yeah. By the end of season six, I won't even remember this bet.
KipYeah. So, okay. Are we doing our ratings? Yeah. Do we want the music? Or we can yeah.
TheresaYeah, because we have to have it in the back.
KipWe can just keep keep playing that music.
TheresaYeah. Just round round it. What is it? Loop it.
KipLoop it up.
TheresaI was gonna say round robin.
KipI mean season four is what we just watched. Finished. Yes. It's pretty fucking epic.
AmandaIt's pretty good. It's a big turning point for the show.
KipIt is, yeah. But it is interesting how kind of like we were saying, season three ends with Jack saying we gotta go back. Season four ends with Jack saying, Yes, we have to go back. Just less angry. Yeah. We still don't quite know what it is. We've softened a little bit exactly.
AmandaSo what do you think of this episode though?
KipOh, I'm sorry. Right. Shit. Oh, oh, 10 out of 10.
AmandaYeah.
KipFor sure. There's no, for me, there's no other option.
Season Rankings And Finale Scores
AmandaYeah, I give it a 10 as well.
TheresaNine.
AmandaGet out. You wrote down already? Yeah.
KipWow.
TheresaYeah, I wrote down, sorry.
AmandaI'm putting them together as one. Same. Yeah. And to me, there wasn't like a single beat of this that was amiss.
KipMe neither.
AmandaLike not a single second of it.
TheresaA 10 ever. So.
KipWell, we'll consult the archives. Yeah, I don't think I've ever given a 10. I think you must.
AmandaTo me, this is like the epitome of what this show is about, though. And like I said, there's not a single, every flashback, every conversation, every like scene, everything was perfect.
KipI agreed.
AmandaAnd the music was perfect, and the reunions were perfect, and it was emotional. Oh yeah, it was a great episode. To me, like this should be. What is this? You said what was it on ID? 9.2.
TheresaNo, that's out, that's about on par then. I'm always I'm always slightly below IMDb, and you guys are always.
KipYeah, but there's no over. I don't think there's any episode on IMDb that will ever get a 10 because there's always contrarians and thousands of. Oh, yeah, that's true. So are you saying you'll never give an episode of Lost a 10?
TheresaI don't know. I think it has to be one where like I'm shocked. Yeah. I feel like there will be. I don't know what it's gonna be.
KipYeah.
AmandaIf you don't give the finale a 10, we're retroactively cutting you out of the podcast. We'll go back and edit you out.
KipYeah, a lot of work, but it's and you'll have to do half of it.
TheresaI would not, I would not put the work in to edit myself out. No, I just I don't know. I I feel like I have to like instinctively give it a 10. And I think because I didn't feel that, it didn't get a 10. I feel like at the end of the episode, if I don't go, oh my god, 10, it's not a 10. Like you need a visceral reaction. Yeah, yeah. I think that's what it is.
AmandaI I think overall, though, this season is probably my favorite season too. So far. So far. Well, I'd have to remember. I seem to recall not loving season five and then loving season six.
KipBut season five's my favorite.
AmandaOh, really? Yeah. Maybe I will then, I don't know. Um, but I loved this season like a lot. Like, I think season three was good, but it like dragged out in time, and there was a lot of cool stuff that happened and very iconic things. But this season to me is so cohesive. Yeah, and maybe you know what? Maybe the Rider's Strike helped with the cohesion. I don't know, right?
KipLike, I yeah, like you're right. It was very succinct in a good way. Yeah. But I still sometimes miss those filler episodes.
AmandaYeah, we know.
KipBut that that doesn't mean it doesn't take anything away because it was an amazing season, and it I think it's the best so far, for sure.
AmandaI I mean there's always a part of me that wishes there was just more content. Sorry. Yes. I always wish there was more content for something I love. So like it would have been nice if it was the 16-episode season as opposed to 14 or whatever. But I do think that like it helped keep them on track and like limited where they could go with some stuff, and they just had to be on their a game. Like they didn't have an they didn't have the opportunity to have misses, right?
KipThey actually had to fight the network to get a two-parter finale. Like the network only was gonna give them the one because of the time, the deadline, the time for for airing. So they were able to get in this second hour basically, which I thought they needed for sure.
TheresaYeah, oh yeah.
AmandaUm that first I think everyone's choices this season made a lot of sense. Like, I think seeing where, you know, and like I said, when you start out the season, knowing kind of slowly revealing who is in the oceanic six, and then you see where they all are at at different points, you're like, how is this ever gonna work out? And it's like so flawlessly weaved together to like go from who left each other at the beach and this to who's on that chopper to everything. It makes so much sense, it flows so beautifully.
KipIt's so well done. Yeah, who was your favorite uh who had the best character arc slash story this season?
AmandaI think Sawyer had a really good arc. Like, I think he went from kind of like not giving a shit to like really being kind of like a hero. Like he's always been kind of like an anti-her, but I feel like now he's kind of like stepped into like more of a hero type role. So I really like his arc.
KipYeah, and I I can add to that because at one point in this episode he says, What are they talking about to Jack and Locke? And Hurley says, I don't know, leader stuff. And you can kind of see Sawyer's a little hurt by that, that like Hurley doesn't see him as a leader, and it's almost like we also feel that because throughout the season he has had this arc of like turning into a leader, like how he helped Claire save like how he was going back for people, really wanting to look after the people he cares about. So I I think I agree with you on that one.
AmandaAnd I'm also like just if we want to say best and worst, I I do not love Saeed's. I like I love so much of what Said has done this season, but it's very clear he's on a like downward. I don't like that he's working with Ben. I don't like so I although it hasn't quite come to fruition yet, I don't like the direction Saeed's character's gone. Even though we're still seeing positives in our present timeline, you just know it's not going well.
KipNo, I think I'm gonna go with Claire as the worst slash like misused, maybe. Like they just fucked like her whole character up. I was like, Yeah, best fair forgotten worse. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
AmandaBest and worst character arc, Teresa? Yeah, same.
TheresaI mean, Sawyer and Claire or Sawyer and Say Sawyer and Claire. I mean, Claire got like a throwaway, don't let him like go to the island in a two-hour episode as you know a uh main cast member.
AmandaHonestly, probably because they had a c like an episode obligation.
TheresaLike, could you imagine like you start off as like you know, you're you're a pretty big character, and then all of a sudden you're just kind of relegated to this throwaway line that like is a dream. Yeah, is a dream.
AmandaAnd she was a really big character, like she was the pregnant girl who was given birth on an island that no one could, like she really did start out strong. So yeah, you know what? You both I I completely which is again probably explains it.
TheresaLike I forgot about her completely, especially with the whole like because even when she had that stuff with Ethan, she had that stuff even with like Juliet, like, and now it's just now that she's not pregnant, she just like doesn't matter, I guess. Like seems like kind of weird, so it's kind of sad.
KipUh Said would be like a close second, but also just knowing how much worse it gets. I know that's what I mean.
AmandaIt's like I don't know you can tell that it gets yeah.
KipYou want to talk about misused slash forgotten.
AmandaOkay, one other thing. What was the most emotional moment in the season for you?
KipConstant. Yeah. The constant.
AmandaYeah. That's so good.
KipIt's like the best episode of the whole series.
AmandaI know.
KipAnd so, like, you didn't give that one a 10? There's no way. I don't know. We have to go back.
AmandaWell, shit! It is a common idiom. We're just
Best Arcs Emotional Peaks Closing
Amandaso naturally kidding. We have to go back to find out it's about as important, I think. Yeah, we have to go back. We do have to check, we have to. Yeah, the con scene you absolutely have to go intend to. It's just literally the perfect TV. Yeah, yeah.
KipThere's no way when you say that, you always like sound like you're trying to like convince us you believe it.
AmandaNo, but like but it is really good. But my honorable mention would be to Alex being killed. I think that that scene is just so fucking good. And like I remember being shocked because they hadn't really ever like people had died and things. I'm not saying like obviously the Analysia um Libby Wammy. Is like terrifying. But this seemed like they killed his kid. Like it just seemed like icky in a way that I never thought Lost would do. And I was like, there are no rules to this show. There are no rules to this show.
KipOh, um, Russo's death. Yeah, I agree.
TheresaYou're telling me this badass woman that you spent three seasons hyping up and being essentially Tarzan of the jungle is just taking it like that.
AmandaBut that's kind of life. Sometimes you go out with a whimper and not a bang, right?
KipBut it's just like for a TV show now. I get it, I get it. Man, it would have been nice just to like give her a better send-off. You know what I mean? I agree.
TheresaYeah, like Carl Fine, whatever. You know, like that's sad.
AmandaOr even more of like a moment between her and Alex or something. Yeah, no, I get it.
TheresaYeah, like no, it should be like, we're gonna run. Like, girl, no, you're not. You have spent 16 years training here. Yeah.
KipAnd you think that you're gonna outrun a perimeter of shooters, girl.
TheresaNo, you're not.
KipYeah, so anyway, there it is.
AmandaSeason four. Great season.
KipAll right.
AmandaWe'll see you in a little while to get back to season five. Maybe we'll have a bonus episode clip show. Yeah, clip show where we just put out if Tracer ranked the constant pen or not. You guys.
TheresaI'm I might have.
KipI think you did.
TheresaI feel like probably, maybe. If anything, I'm revive.
KipAll right. Well, thanks for listening to this season of Let's Get Lost. That wraps up season four, and we will see you back here for season five. And I don't remember what the season five, episode one is called, but Teresa, look it up real quick. It's gonna be something good.
TheresaIt's gonna be montage of photos. Um season five, episode one. Because you left. Oh shit.
AmandaOkay, bye. Bye.